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highend soundcard

Franklinwallbrown

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Okay, now I'm confused again!
 

Darren

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So . . . . you're using a chart that compares the discontinued Auzentach cards (very high end) to Creative's low-end cards?!! :wtf: Where does that makes sense?

What are you talking about, the X-Fi Xtreme Music was pretty highend a year and a half ago when that chart was compiled. To be frank apart from the Prelude no other Creative card can not rival Auzentech on specification wise and if you think otherwise find me some evidence.
 

Franklinwallbrown

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monte84

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Only the Auzentech Preludes will get the DDL/DTS update, the other X-Fi cards will not. It was in the terms and conditions of Auzentech implemeting a EAX 5.0 and Dolby ready card with Creatives permission, in return Auzentech had to remove the X-Meridian from the market.

Auzentech sites suggest that the X-Meridian was canelled due to low quantities of the C-Media Oxygen-HD chip that it used. Not saying creative didnt have something to do about it, then tend to do things like that. But Auzentech is still selling the X-Plosion on thier website....I do love auzentech cards.
 

imperialreign

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What are you talking about, the X-Fi Xtreme Music was pretty highend a year and a half ago when that chart was compiled. To be frank apart from the Prelude no other Creative card can not rival Auzentech on specification wise and if you think otherwise find me some evidence.

<sigh>

The Prelude is an Auzentech in every shape, form and design. The only reason they call it an "X-Fi Prelude" is because it makes use of a Creative X-Fi APU. Auzen specifically designed the PCB layout around the APU for superior sound quality, and chose the best components possible for this purpose too.

Compared to the other card's that even Auzen is currently offering, the Prelude is the best in their lineup.


Anyhow - Creative's Xtreme Music card was a mid-range card. It was priced at $100 ($20 more than the low end Xtreme Gamer and Xtreme Audio), but still fell short on specs when compared to Creative's high-end cards (the Fatal1ty Pro and the Elite Pro). Comparing the XM card to Auzen's older offerings is still comparing a mid-range to high-end cards - it would be like comparing an ATI HD2400 to an nVidia 8800 GT; it just doesn't make sense.

The two Audigy cards listed in those charts were considered high-end Audigy cards, but, they were already a generation old at the time, and were designed and released prior to Auzen's cards on that chart - meaning that your comparing aging components to cutting edge technology.
 

Franklinwallbrown

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Everyone told me to go AuzenTech for HD movies! Ah!
 

Darren

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Well if the Fatal1ty Pro and the Elite Pro were Creatives high end, why not compare the Auzentech X-Plosion to the Fatal1ty Pro and the Elite Pro. Auzentech will still rival Creative in that domain to I'm sure.

Edit: this all comes down to personal choice, its too subjective to say one is better than the other, either we talk about a specific area or we don't talk about it at all.
 

Franklinwallbrown

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I knowz, I knowz!
 

ChillyMyst

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at the time they where in the same market, and its 100% about what the HARDWARE can do, not something you can fake or scew with madeup bullshit.

and its not just to compare the x-med, this goes for ANY CARD USING THAT CHIP they all use the same drivers/driver base, this includes the razor shound card, alpha and omega's 80$ sound card, and a few others im to lazy to look up the proper names of.

now about your nvidia forceware drivers, last i checked they are in the 40mb range, but thats a videodriver that includes not only base 2d and 3d support along with control panil but also software for tvout, purevideo(video playback booster) as well as multi monotor support, so yeah the VIDEO drivers are big, but thats a diffrent topic all togather.

check creatives forums, i linked them, lots of reports of problems.

and not everybody sees problems, but those who do get NO HELP from creative, creative eather ignors them or tells them their other hardware/software is at fault.

those drivers you talk about being built into windows, they suck, the vista sblive drivers are USELESS AS HELL, people have been requesting WORKING sblive drivers for vista since it was in beta, you know why, alot of people payed damn good $ for their sblive 5.1 gamer/plat cards and would like to beable to use them PROPERLY under vista.

"Hardware accelerated audio, better music with the Crystalizer"

first off the audiophiles here who have tested the crystlizer here will tell you that its crap, hell ask grings, and the hardware accelerated audio....ROFL, yeah that dosnt work in vista m8, due to vistas design the drivers are only barly able to make use of the x-fi's hardware accelration, theres hack out there, but it dosnt work as well as the xp drivers did, this is due to vista not really being designed to support hardware accelerated audio.

as to saying the cmedia chips are all 100% cpu driven, thats bullshit, they do use the cpu for some fx and to do some small parts of the work but guess what, it dosnt make them any slower then the x-fi!!!!

examples of cmi based soundcard that have been rated higher then the x-fi for allaround quility of sound and use in GAMING as well as genral listening.

cmi8768/8768+,8770,8780 cards get better reviews for GAMING as well as music listening, im not just pulling this out of my ass, only somebody whos afrade to admit something they payed to much for may not be that great would dennie that there are better products, as to EAX,as stated in reviews and by other people here, its not all that, you may love it, but in my experiance its nothing special, and yes i have used an x-fi xgamer, audigy1, audigy2zs, and a stack of other cards, I wasnt impressed with them to be honest, mostly due to the drivers sucking.

why does an audio driver need to be 50mb for creative cards and only 5mb for another company and yet have the funtion?

oh note that if you look at the charts its made very clear that the x-fi when run in 7.1 mode can only do 96khz where as the cmi chips from the x-med and newer can do 192khz at 7.1, i know to you im sure this dosnt matter since you probbly have 2ch sound anyway.

I and others tho have full 5.1 or 7.1 setups that give REAL 3d sound in games and movies.

Sad to say but I can easly compare the x-fi I had to the ADI1988 my asus board had(infact the 1988 had better drivers dispite a couple buggs) and the realtek HD audio codec this board has, you know why, because i was one of those people whos system didnt like the x-fi, i fixed it after a few days of tinkering, and desided It was not speeding up games, it was not making things sound better and it was not worth what i spent on it, so i sold it to a buddy who ended up replacing it 4 months later with an 8768+ card from bluegears(auzentechs old name) because when he compared them at a buddys house the CMI based card sounded better in the games he played, in movies oh yeah and its driver control panil was better......i love xear software, it was on my old mobo's onboard sound(good design no eletronic noise, all the componants where shielded!!)

now about EAX being supported by a game engine, just because its supported by the engine dosnt mean that game dev's using the engine are going to use/implement it, infact there are lots of feturs in every game engine that devs dont use, one commonly un-used feture is the higher EAX supports, some engines have built in phsyics engines, yet alot of game devs went with havoc insted of using what was built into the engine(unreal2 engine games and even some unreal3 engine games are still using havoc)

point is that just because the engine can support it dosnt mean jack shit when a dev desides they dont want to deal with the hassle of supporting something the majority of their costmers arent gonna use, or because they just dont want to bother with the extra work of adding 5000 voices to a game to make x-fi owners feel better about their soundcards.

the pci-E x-fi is effectivly an AC97 HD codec 100% software driven but it supports all versions of EAX, if creative wasnt so damn stuck up they would make EAX and open standred like they did with eax2, allowing anybody to develop drivers to support it, but insted they eather refuse to licence the rights to creat said driver support OR they do something just as bad, set the price for a licence so high the company couldnt afford it.

auzen wanted to make their 8768 cards fully eax complyant, they ended up not doing it because the price creative wanted in order to let them do it would have made it so they didnt make anything on the cards they sold........

oh and the extream music gives you the specs of the APU not just the spicific card, the higher end x-fi cards basickly had one thing added, more of that effectivly useless audio ram or whatever its called, the thing that only has 1 game that takes advantage of it.......

compare the specs of the x-fi cards against that auzenteck card spec list!!!

and your anniligy of compairing 2400 to 8800 is way off, more like compairing 3870 EE to 8800gt, same market, close prices, diffrent makers.

in this case the cmedia chips win, because they where designed to be better for AUDIO QUILITY and their drivers are better made, anybody whos owned a cmedia card/chipset and used xear will likely tell you the same thing, its very easy to use, works well and offers tweaks that even the highest end creative cards dont(like proper speeker shifter abilities)

blah im gonna watch some more eureka 7 :D
 

ChillyMyst

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oh and yes the reasion the x-med was dumped was due to low supply of chips, 2 other card makers had to switch to diffrent chips or wait to get more of hte 8770 chips, auzen just dumped the cards, also its assumed they had to do something to get creative to let them use the x-fi apu but there is no proof as far as i know.

but it makes sence to me, creative would do that if only to take their main compotition off the market for a while.
 

Darren

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oh and yes the reasion the x-med was dumped was due to low supply of chips, 2 other card makers had to switch to diffrent chips or wait to get more of hte 8770 chips, auzen just dumped the cards, also its assumed they had to do something to get creative to let them use the x-fi apu but there is no proof as far as i know.

but it makes sence to me, creative would do that if only to take their main compotition off the market for a while.

Below is the exact notice on Auzentech's website:

As of June 2007, this soundcard is no longer in production due to limited chipset availability. Some retailers may have inventory on hand for a limited time

Well Auzentech's X-Meridian uses the "CMI8788" chip yet apparently it's in short availability. Yeah right, such short demand that other manafactures have used the same CMI8788 chip to implement the HT OMEGA CLARO and bluegears b-Enspirer, and they are still are being produced and sold.

Then a few weeks later Auzentech announce that they are releasing a card in partnership with Creative. I'm no rocket scientist but how can a chip that is soo limited in availability be used on various other soundcards yet Auzentech can't get their hands on it as soon as Creative wants to work with them?
 
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well i count myself blessed with bad hearing means i only need soundcards when the current dies, i got a Live because my Soundblaster AWE64 wouldnt work on an Nforce 2

and i bet your car dont even go faster after u wash it.. :laugh:

trog
 

Franklinwallbrown

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I'm a little jaded by the sound card discussion. Mainly because I don't know what you guys are talking about. Grr...
 

department76

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wow that certainly blew up.

from my perspective, there's a huge difrference between c-media and x-fi based cards. all of that has been covered many times over in this thread. each card in each price range from each brand is catered to do something different. it's just the consumers job to do the research on making the right buying choice. there is no flat out "this cards better," that's just like the whole AMD vs. Intel war.

i think i made the right choice for my needs in selecting the prelude over the fatal1ty champion or ASUS xonar, and frankly, i can't wait until it comes in the mail. UPS 2nd day just isn't fast enough :-/
 

Franklinwallbrown

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Well, some people are noobs & need help & need tutoring on how to research. I am under par when it come to research. I am just getting into the computer scene & everything is going by so fast.
 

btarunr

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wow that certainly blew up.

from my perspective, there's a huge difrference between c-media and x-fi based cards. all of that has been covered many times over in this thread. each card in each price range from each brand is catered to do something different. it's just the consumers job to do the research on making the right buying choice. there is no flat out "this cards better," that's just like the whole AMD vs. Intel war.

i think i made the right choice for my needs in selecting the prelude over the fatal1ty champion or ASUS xonar, and frankly, i can't wait until it comes in the mail. UPS 2nd day just isn't fast enough :-/

I'm more than glad you settled for a X-Fi card, it will pay off. I would be a good idea to choose a high-end OPAMP for the front-channel now itself as compatible OPAMP chips are getting rare, in case you were planning for an AMP upgrade for the X-Fi Prelude in the not-so-near future. The March '08 driver will bring in many newer DSPs, I'm waiting for them too.

@Chillymyst: You are inaccurate, completely. Your comparision an onboard ADI chip to X-Fi is like comparing a Toyota Corolla to a Lamborghini Diablo, both are capable of reaching 100 mph speeds, just that we all know which one goes faster and which one is better. As for the 5MB C-Media driver, did you know, the Intel 82810E Graphics had a 5 MB driver too. But compare the Intel 810E to a GeForce 8800 and you'll find the differences in the size of the driver obvious.
 

ChillyMyst

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Below is the exact notice on Auzentech's website:

As of June 2007, this soundcard is no longer in production due to limited chipset availability. Some retailers may have inventory on hand for a limited time

Well Auzentech's X-Meridian uses the "CMI8788" chip yet apparently it's in short availability. Yeah right, such short demand that other manafactures have used the same CMI8788 chip to implement the HT OMEGA CLARO and bluegears b-Enspirer, and they are still are being produced and sold.

Then a few weeks later Auzentech announce that they are releasing a card in partnership with Creative. I'm no rocket scientist but how can a chip that is soo limited in availability be used on various other soundcards yet Auzentech can't get their hands on it as soon as Creative wants to work with them?

yeah, i know, i do know for a short time there was a shortage on some cmedia chips, tho this could easly have been a delayed shipment or the like.

creative im sure didnt want auzen producing cards long side the x-fi based ones that where supperior in specs and abilitys, i mean honestly i cant blame them there, if you looked at a compair chart for the x-fi prelude vs the xmed card and the xmed was better yet older you would probbly go for it dispite the lack of hardware APU and EAX3+(useless crap=eax)
 

ChillyMyst

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I'm more than glad you settled for a X-Fi card, it will pay off. I would be a good idea to choose a high-end OPAMP for the front-channel now itself as compatible OPAMP chips are getting rare, in case you were planning for an AMP upgrade for the X-Fi Prelude in the not-so-near future. The March '08 driver will bring in many newer DSPs, I'm waiting for them too.

@Chillymyst: You are inaccurate, completely. Your comparision an onboard ADI chip to X-Fi is like comparing a Toyota Corolla to a Lamborghini Diablo, both are capable of reaching 100 mph speeds, just that we all know which one goes faster and which one is better. As for the 5MB C-Media driver, did you know, the Intel 82810E Graphics had a 5 MB driver too. But compare the Intel 810E to a GeForce 8800 and you'll find the differences in the size of the driver obvious.

acctualy read the hardware specs of what the 1988b chipset can do, in some respecs it acctualy is better then the x-fi, whitch is sad since its just made to be cheap onboard HD audio.

we need KET in here, he is good at this argument.

and yea, but the 810E isnt ment for 3d use AT ALL, its made for buisness use, also its driver is in a singel driver pack that only supports the intel onboard video from that chipset, where as forceware and catlyist suits support a VERY wide range of cards.

forceware driver cover cards from the fx5200 to the 8800gt/gts, catlyist drivers support radeon 9500 thru the latist 3870 cards, they dont all use the same driver files, its just easyer to pack them into a 1 shot download then deal with uninformed users not knowing what driver to download.

your arguments are based on lack of true knowlage and experiance as you have shown with your poor aniligys.

as to the prelude, i have seen alot of complaints about the auzentech drivers, as I said when it was announced way back when the main problem auzentech will have with the x-fi chip is creating a quility driver, creative isnt likely to be much help since they cant even get their own x-fi cards to be bugg free and they have had years, look at their forums for proof.

the complaints and bad reviews of the prelude have all been dirrected at drivers that arent yet mature for xp and vista, vista i can understand, its a steaming like of horse crap, but xp, they have had plenty of time to get the xp drivers down pat, why so many complaints about stuff like high pitched squeeling on x-fi music cards? or static on all x-fi cards?

its not a new problem, creative just dosnt want to bother fixing it, or cant seem to figuar out a way to fix it without having to rewrite their drivers.

i personaly couldnt give a crap whitch it is, the fact that creative has PROOVEN year and year again that they cant get the bugs out of their x-fi cards leads me to belive that they did the same bs with the x-fi that happened with the sblive cards back in the day.

for those to young to know the story i will tell it.

the sblive like the x-fi came out to great acclame due to its audio proc chip, it was expencive but everybody wanted one, so tens of thousands sold.
not long after people started complaining of crackling and static in their audio, problems with the cards just stoping working till they reset or did a full shutdown.

after ALOT of user testing and 3rd party research it was found that the problem was in creatives implementation of pci interface on the card, it couldnt deal with latancy settings that where in spec for PCI1.0/1.1 standreds of the day, yet cmedia/yahama/esx/cirrus/crystal/XG/aureal could all do the same job without problems in the same systems.

creative tryed driver fixes that where half ass, in the end they told everybody to set their pci latancys higher, in most cases dubble what the specs called for.

this was at first blamed on the via chipset, but then it was found to a lesser degree to effect most of the chipsets of the day, many board makers ended up harming their performance and just setting the default latancy where it needed to be to keep the sblive cards from crackling(back then onboard audio was a joke, totaly useless for anything)

creative managed to mostly avoid this with the audigy cards, but then they made the x-fi and the same kinda issue came up, this time they blame the nf4 chipset, one of the most popular amd chipsets of the day, they said it dosnt deal with pci correctly, funny since there are no other products that have had problems with the pci emplimintation of the nf4 chipsets, its just another time creative didnt test properly and didnt follow proper ISO specs for their cards........

hopefully the auzen cards take care of this issue with design, im sure its better then the default x-fi pcb!!!!..

meh im gonna go watch more eureka 7 :D
 

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acctualy read the hardware specs of what the 1988b chipset can do, in some respecs it acctualy is better then the x-fi, whitch is sad since its just made to be cheap onboard HD audio.

we need KET in here, he is good at this argument.

and yea, but the 810E isnt ment for 3d use AT ALL, its made for buisness use, also its driver is in a singel driver pack that only supports the intel onboard video from that chipset, where as forceware and catlyist suits support a VERY wide range of cards.

forceware driver cover cards from the fx5200 to the 8800gt/gts, catlyist drivers support radeon 9500 thru the latist 3870 cards, they dont all use the same driver files, its just easyer to pack them into a 1 shot download then deal with uninformed users not knowing what driver to download.

your arguments are based on lack of true knowlage and experiance as you have shown with your poor aniligys.

as to the prelude, i have seen alot of complaints about the auzentech drivers, as I said when it was announced way back when the main problem auzentech will have with the x-fi chip is creating a quility driver, creative isnt likely to be much help since they cant even get their own x-fi cards to be bugg free and they have had years, look at their forums for proof.

the complaints and bad reviews of the prelude have all been dirrected at drivers that arent yet mature for xp and vista, vista i can understand, its a steaming like of horse crap, but xp, they have had plenty of time to get the xp drivers down pat, why so many complaints about stuff like high pitched squeeling on x-fi music cards? or static on all x-fi cards?

its not a new problem, creative just dosnt want to bother fixing it, or cant seem to figuar out a way to fix it without having to rewrite their drivers.

i personaly couldnt give a crap whitch it is, the fact that creative has PROOVEN year and year again that they cant get the bugs out of their x-fi cards leads me to belive that they did the same bs with the x-fi that happened with the sblive cards back in the day.

for those to young to know the story i will tell it.

the sblive like the x-fi came out to great acclame due to its audio proc chip, it was expencive but everybody wanted one, so tens of thousands sold.
not long after people started complaining of crackling and static in their audio, problems with the cards just stoping working till they reset or did a full shutdown.

after ALOT of user testing and 3rd party research it was found that the problem was in creatives implementation of pci interface on the card, it couldnt deal with latancy settings that where in spec for PCI1.0/1.1 standreds of the day, yet cmedia/yahama/esx/cirrus/crystal/XG/aureal could all do the same job without problems in the same systems.

creative tryed driver fixes that where half ass, in the end they told everybody to set their pci latancys higher, in most cases dubble what the specs called for.

this was at first blamed on the via chipset, but then it was found to a lesser degree to effect most of the chipsets of the day, many board makers ended up harming their performance and just setting the default latancy where it needed to be to keep the sblive cards from crackling(back then onboard audio was a joke, totaly useless for anything)

creative managed to mostly avoid this with the audigy cards, but then they made the x-fi and the same kinda issue came up, this time they blame the nf4 chipset, one of the most popular amd chipsets of the day, they said it dosnt deal with pci correctly, funny since there are no other products that have had problems with the pci emplimintation of the nf4 chipsets, its just another time creative didnt test properly and didnt follow proper ISO specs for their cards........

hopefully the auzen cards take care of this issue with design, im sure its better then the default x-fi pcb!!!!..

meh im gonna go watch more eureka 7 :D

lack of true knowledge my arse, your comparing a Azalia compliant DAC to an Audio Processor is lack of commonsense, provide the specs that show exactly what makes a ADI chip better. It's more of "I hate Creative" than "I'd not suggest Creative" for you, piss and moan elsewhere. As for me, I've owned both the Xtreme Gamer and the X-Fi Prelude and I endorse my views by my usage, I paid for those cards and I'm more than glad with what they gave me, the X-Fi Prelude is a superior card to anything ever made in PC audio .period. Nobody needs to know facts to tell that from some POS ADI DAC chip.

Calling Ket for what? Arguments and more? Well the thread starter has already placed his order for a X-Fi Prelude, you are more than defeated. All your Gospels typed in vain :p

This thread has served its purpose of helping someone with a sane purchase decision, your C-Media, Analog Devices > Creative served no purpose, a mod could close this thread.
 
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check creatives forums, i linked them, lots of reports of problems.

and not everybody sees problems, but those who do get NO HELP from creative, creative eather ignors them or tells them their other hardware/software is at fault.

never had a problem with Creative responding within 24 hours. Like all major hardware manufacturers, they cover the basics first.

those drivers you talk about being built into windows, they suck, the vista sblive drivers are USELESS AS HELL, people have been requesting WORKING sblive drivers for vista since it was in beta, you know why, alot of people payed damn good $ for their sblive 5.1 gamer/plat cards and would like to beable to use them PROPERLY under vista.

For startars, the ALchemy drivers are written by Creative to work around the Vista OS kernel that . . . f-it, there's no use in explaining it.

I have a Live! Platinum still laying around here - TBH, even if you have one and it's holding up well, it's time to upgrade. It's been 10 years since the initial release of the Live! series; they were released before WIN XP was ever released, and the fact that Creative supported these cards for up until the release of the X-Fi says a lot about Creative's stance. The cards are deemed legacy by Creative at this point - you're shitting yourself if you think they'll release any new drivers for them . . . ever.

"Hardware accelerated audio, better music with the Crystalizer"

first off the audiophiles here who have tested the crystlizer here will tell you that its crap, hell ask grings, and the hardware accelerated audio....ROFL, yeah that dosnt work in vista m8, due to vistas design the drivers are only barly able to make use of the x-fi's hardware accelration, theres hack out there, but it dosnt work as well as the xp drivers did, this is due to vista not really being designed to support hardware accelerated audio.

you're right here - we will tell you that the crystallizer is shit. It can make some very low quality files sound better, but all it truly is is an audio filter that makes up for some imperfections. High bit rate file quality is actually infringed upon with the Crystallizer. Here's a link I've had posted for quite some time to an in-depth analysis of what the Crystallizer is actually doing: http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/multimedia/creative-x-fi-part2.html - notice, though, that Creative targets this technology at mp3 and game audio playback - not listening to HD material.


as to saying the cmedia chips are all 100% cpu driven, thats bullshit, they do use the cpu for some fx and to do some small parts of the work but guess what, it dosnt make them any slower then the x-fi!!!!

examples of cmi based soundcard that have been rated higher then the x-fi for allaround quility of sound and use in GAMING as well as genral listening.

cmi8768/8768+,8770,8780 cards get better reviews for GAMING as well as music listening, im not just pulling this out of my ass, only somebody whos afrade to admit something they payed to much for may not be that great would dennie that there are better products, as to EAX,as stated in reviews and by other people here, its not all that, you may love it, but in my experiance its nothing special, and yes i have used an x-fi xgamer, audigy1, audigy2zs, and a stack of other cards, I wasnt impressed with them to be honest, mostly due to the drivers sucking.

again: a chipset is inherently slower than a dedicated processor!! The X-Fi APU was designed for sheer performance with great sound quality - I never said the best in the industry. But where it slightly lacks in quality, it can perform audio processing a thousand times faster than a C-Media chipset (depending entirelly on what CPU is aiding the CM).

Auzen's cards might recieve better sound quality ratings in games, etc - but their cards cannot perform the same amount of tasks that an X-Fi can, which, unless you have a great CPU, you'll start running into audio clipping issues as the BUS starts getting bogged down with requests from the PCI - on exact same setups, an X-Fi will handle more tasks than a CM, and faster, too.

again: EAX is really down to personal taste, and how well the game developers implimented EAX. Some games stand out really well, others it seems like it was more of an after thought.


why does an audio driver need to be 50mb for creative cards and only 5mb for another company and yet have the funtion?

drivers for dedicated processing units tend to be much larger than drivers for a chipset. For example, the most current Intel chipset drivers are only a 2MB download. AMD/ATI's chipset driver for a Crossfire Xpress 3200 chipset is only 5.1MB. The actual chipset drivers from nVidia's nForce 7 series is only 6MB (IIRC).


oh note that if you look at the charts its made very clear that the x-fi when run in 7.1 mode can only do 96khz where as the cmi chips from the x-med and newer can do 192khz at 7.1, i know to you im sure this dosnt matter since you probbly have 2ch sound anyway.

I and others tho have full 5.1 or 7.1 setups that give REAL 3d sound in games and movies.

:banghead: That's called downsampling :banghead: we know about this limitation with the X-Fi cards :slap:

Sad to say but I can easly compare the x-fi I had to the ADI1988 my asus board had(infact the 1988 had better drivers dispite a couple buggs) and the realtek HD audio codec this board has, you know why, because i was one of those people whos system didnt like the x-fi, i fixed it after a few days of tinkering, and desided It was not speeding up games, it was not making things sound better and it was not worth what i spent on it, so i sold it to a buddy who ended up replacing it 4 months later with an 8768+ card from bluegears(auzentechs old name) because when he compared them at a buddys house the CMI based card sounded better in the games he played, in movies oh yeah and its driver control panil was better......i love xear software, it was on my old mobo's onboard sound(good design no eletronic noise, all the componants where shielded!!)

:shadedshu just shot yourself in the foot, there. If onboard truly sounds better to you than even a low-end Creative card - more power to you.


now about EAX being supported by a game engine, just because its supported by the engine dosnt mean that game dev's using the engine are going to use/implement it, infact there are lots of feturs in every game engine that devs dont use, one commonly un-used feture is the higher EAX supports, some engines have built in phsyics engines, yet alot of game devs went with havoc insted of using what was built into the engine(unreal2 engine games and even some unreal3 engine games are still using havoc)

point is that just because the engine can support it dosnt mean jack shit when a dev desides they dont want to deal with the hassle of supporting something the majority of their costmers arent gonna use, or because they just dont want to bother with the extra work of adding 5000 voices to a game to make x-fi owners feel better about their soundcards.

So, you're saying that game devs won't go the extre mile for better implimentation because the majority of their customers don't use a Creative card?!! :laugh: Funny, funny!

EAX boils down to how much effort a dev put into it's implimentation - case in point: Doom3, OpenAL and EAX 5.0 support was added after the games launch. Granted, ID did a great job of going back through the game, but there are many areas where the reverb doesn't sound right, close-range sounds are a bit loud, and some effects are a little off. A good example, though, would be to go play Thief: Deadly Shadows (a game that relies heavily on audio cues to the player), where EAX 4.0 was written in during development - it sound better than Doom3.

the pci-E x-fi is effectivly an AC97 HD codec 100% software driven but it supports all versions of EAX, if creative wasnt so damn stuck up they would make EAX and open standred like they did with eax2, allowing anybody to develop drivers to support it, but insted they eather refuse to licence the rights to creat said driver support OR they do something just as bad, set the price for a licence so high the company couldnt afford it.

auzen wanted to make their 8768 cards fully eax complyant, they ended up not doing it because the price creative wanted in order to let them do it would have made it so they didnt make anything on the cards they sold........

the Creative XA PCIE card is more geared towards OE system builders than the average customer. But, the typical customer will be interested in it simply because it's one of the very few products on the market that make use of the PCI-E 1x slot.

Asides, Creative own the rights to EAX 3.0-5.0; it's entirelly up to them what they do with those DSPs. If they feel like charging an arm and a leg, they have that right. It allows them to keep a corner of the market, no matter what their competition wants to do.

Oh, and the Prelude is EAX 5.0 complaint.

oh and the extream music gives you the specs of the APU not just the spicific card, the higher end x-fi cards basickly had one thing added, more of that effectivly useless audio ram or whatever its called, the thing that only has 1 game that takes advantage of it.......

compare the specs of the x-fi cards against that auzenteck card spec list!!!

the onboard RAM is not useless. It's only on the Fatal1ty and Elite Pro that Creative advertise the full 64MB capable. The Xtreme Music used 32MB. The more RAM on the card, the fewere requests to the PCI BUS being made, as the APU can handle storage of all processing files "in-house," instead of having to swap them back and forth to the system MEM.

On my older Intel desktop board, using 2GB standard DDR, I had a lot of audio clipping with an Xtreme Gamer. Moving up to and Xtreme Music improved things quite a bit, and finally trading that in for a Fatal1ty completely cleared any audio clipping. No motherboard BIOS settings were changed, as the BIOS was locked.

If you'll notice, the reason the specs for the X-Fi cards all appear similar is due to the specs of the APU being listed. There are some changes to the spec list based on the card, but few worth mentioning - the real changes are what the card is capable of supporting, and the design and layout of the PCB (which greatly affects the final quality of playback).


in this case the cmedia chips win, because they where designed to be better for AUDIO QUILITY and their drivers are better made, anybody whos owned a cmedia card/chipset and used xear will likely tell you the same thing, its very easy to use, works well and offers tweaks that even the highest end creative cards dont(like proper speeker shifter abilities)

DID I NOT SAY IN AN EARLY POST THAT THE X-Fi IS DESIGNED FOR PERFORMANCE, WHEREAS THE C-MEDIA CHIPSET IS DESIGNED FOR QUALITY?!!

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

dude, I respect your perserverance, but get your facts straight.

I'm done with this thread.
 

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you're right here - we will tell you that the crystallizer is shit.


again: a chipset is inherently slower than a dedicated processor!! The X-Fi APU was designed for sheer performance with great sound quality - I never said the best in the industry. But where it slightly lacks in quality, it can perform audio processing a thousand times faster than a C-Media chipset (depending entirelly on what CPU is aiding the CM).

From what I understand, your music collection is full of lossless WMA or high bitrate files. Crystalizer was built for games where the music and sound files are compressed, even if in wave format. The intro-title music of Doom 3 is 40 kbps Ogg Vorbis, for example, play it with and without Crystalizer to note the difference.

As for music, X-Fi users, try this simple test, you will need Winamp 5.

for 15 minutes, listen to this stream without the Crystalizer, Winamp > File > Play URL > "http://somafm.com/groovesalad48.pls" (without quotes). PLay it again with Crystalizer turned on, listen to the difference yourselves. It's a 64 kbps AACP stream which with the Crystlizer can sound better than 256 kbps MP3. For compares, play this stream: "http://somafm.com/groovesalad.pls" (without quotes), it's 128 kbps MP3. Play this in the same with/without Crystalizer, note the sharp differences.

As for CMI8788, Chillymyst is factually wrong. The CMI8788 uses the CPU for even the basic operations such as sample mixing, sample rate conversion, etc, it's 100% CPU dependent for all its operations except Xear 3D (which genuinely sounds like shit). In the aspect of hardware autonomity, it's a comparision similar to the Realtek RTL8139 and Thomas Conrad TC4041 (the latter is 100% autonomous with all its operations), I'm not using Killer NIC here.
 
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course the only real problem with having the worlds "best" imput device is all the other bits between it and the listeners subjective experience..

i once heard a story that goes like this..

dad is sat there listening to his nice expensive sound system.. dad is a hi-fi buff and has been for years.. only the "best" is good enough for dad..

in walks son.. dad he says.. did u know your tweeters have blown.. from that day on dad went right off his expensive gear.. he was never the same again..

trog
 

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came in today. i'm listening right now on headphones, and it is phenominal; and better i think than headphones plugged into my receiver from spdif.

have yet to game or try DDL.


course the only real problem with having the worlds "best" imput device is all the other bits between it and the listeners subjective experience..

i once heard a story that goes like this..

dad is sat there listening to his nice expensive sound system.. dad is a hi-fi buff and has been for years.. only the "best" is good enough for dad..

in walks son.. dad he says.. did u know your tweeters have blown.. from that day on dad went right off his expensive gear.. he was never the same again..

trog


then i'd call the kids dad an idiot :laugh:
 

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yup, verdicts in; great card.

DDL works flawlessly while gaming, it's a simple switch from that to headphones.

right now i am finding myslef listening to lots of music rather than doing a lot of gaming, i'm still shocked at the quality of the analog on this card. i can't leave my DTS disks alone!! 4602Kbps 96/24 2ch LPCM FTW!!!!!!!!!
 

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Let it rock you man :rockout:

It pays to go Auzen, pays to go X-Fi.
 
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