• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Humans are not smarter than animals, just "different"

Joined
Aug 2, 2009
Messages
4,014 (1.25/day)
Likes
1,832
#51
People project personalities and intelligence into animals because seeing those features in other beings is how we make sense of our world.
Very well put. This point, coupled with the fact that is very chic in today's society to be anti-humanist, is the only reason this thread has gotten any traction whatsoever.
 

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
21,703 (6.18/day)
Likes
10,848
Location
IA, USA
System Name BY-2015
Processor Intel Core i7-6700K (4 x 4.00 GHz) w/ HT and Turbo on
Motherboard MSI Z170A GAMING M7
Cooling Scythe Kotetsu
Memory 2 x Kingston HyperX DDR4-2133 8 GiB
Video Card(s) PowerColor PCS+ 390 8 GiB DVI + HDMI
Storage Crucial MX300 275 GB, Seagate 6 TB 7200 RPM
Display(s) Samsung SyncMaster T240 24" LCD (1920x1200 HDMI) + Samsung SyncMaster 906BW 19" LCD (1440x900 DVI)
Case Coolermaster HAF 932 w/ USB 3.0 5.25" bay
Audio Device(s) Realtek Onboard, Micca OriGen+
Power Supply Enermax Platimax 850w
Mouse SteelSeries Sensei RAW
Keyboard Tesoro Excalibur
Software Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
Benchmark Scores Faster than the tortoise; slower than the hare.
#52
My explanation for the fox is simple. Environmental pressures have made it evolutionarily favorable to have acute hearing. Magnetic detection isn't anything new either, as birds have independently evolved the same faculties. If conflating natural abilities to intelligence were a viable comparison, the most intelligent thing on the planet would be a water bear (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tardigrade). The Tardigrade can survive in vacuum, without water, and enough radiation to make us humans a steaming pile of mush.
That is why I used the red fox for that example. What they are doing is done with computer-like precision. Yes, they may have evolutionary hardware we don't have but they also have a brain that can understand that hardware and know what to do with it to survive.

You're trying to define intelligence by a metric that only humans have demonstrated (mathematical concepts) which I would call bias. If you want to compare intelligence across species, you have to establish and use a lowest common denominator. As said previously, evolutionary biologists agree that the best measure is the size of the cortex compared to the body mass and by that metric, we are not alone in intelligence.

Case in point: look at what it took to get humans where they are today, specifically, diet. The reason why our brains got so big is because we became omnivores and to be omnivores, we had to become the predator. The same happened to the orca (they are carnivorous predators that hunt a wide variety of prey but each pod specializes in a few). If you compare orca behavior to human behavior, the only difference is humans use tools. They behave just like nomadic human tribes did. We could likely teach an orca how to hunt an animal they usually don't hunt and they'll likely teach their entire pod and pass it on from one generation to the next because it is useful to them. The reason why we don't know for sure is because serious research on animal intelligence has just begun recently. At this point, saying humans are "the only animal with true intelligence" is no different than subscribing to intelligent design (bias, lots of it, with no empirical evidence to prove it).
 
Joined
Apr 2, 2011
Messages
2,449 (0.94/day)
Likes
1,877
#53
That is why I used the red fox for that example. What they are doing is done with computer-like precision. Yes, they may have evolutionary hardware we don't have but they also have a brain that can understand that hardware and know what to do with it to survive.

You're trying to define intelligence by a metric that only humans have demonstrated (mathematical concepts) which I would call bias. If you want to compare intelligence across species, you have to establish and use a lowest common denominator. As said previously, evolutionary biologists agree that the best measure is the size of the cortex compared to the body mass and by that metric, we are not alone in intelligence.

Case in point: look at what it took to get humans where they are today, specifically, diet. The reason why our brains got so big is because we became omnivores and to be omnivores, we had to become the predator. The same happened to the orca (they are carnivorous predators that hunt a wide variety of prey but each pod specializes in a few). If you compare orca behavior to human behavior, the only difference is humans use tools. They behave just like nomadic human tribes did. We could likely teach an orca how to hunt an animal they usually don't hunt and they'll likely teach their entire pod and pass it on from one generation to the next because it is useful to them. The reason why we don't know for sure is because serious research on animal intelligence has just begun recently. At this point, saying humans are "the only animal with true intelligence" is no different than subscribing to intelligent design (bias, lots of it, with no empirical evidence to prove it).

I'm not entirely sure where to begin here. Let's say tomorrow a species not of this Earth lands in a space craft. Their first task will be to go about determining which species dominates the planet, and if any exist which are capable of responding back to their advances. Disregarding the cities, because there are multiple species co-habitating the structures; they begin by abducting an example of every species. Stacking them up;
1) Humans do not have the greatest amount of brain, that distinction belongs to Sperm whales.
2) Humans are not the only species with spindle cells.
3) Humans do not have the most complex brain structure.
4) Humans are not the only social animal which can communicate with one another.
5) No species currently on the planet has a written language except humans.

So, the brains aren't largely special for humans, when compared to our contemporary "intelligent" species. The only thing we've got going for us is a written language, which isn't exactly great. Moving forward, adaptations are compared;
1) Cheetahs have the fastest burst running speed of any animals.
2) Whales are the largest mammals.
3) The amount of insects outstrips all other animals by several fold.
4) There are animals with better sensory perception than humans, no matter what the sense.

If our observer was polled at this point the dominant species for this planet would either be whales or insects. Both of these choices have complex interactions with one another, are well adapted, and have some of the finest evolutionary artillery on the planet. Upon opening a dialog, they get nowhere. Whale song analysis allows them to talk the same language, but no complex data can be shared and interpreted. Insects confronted with stimuli respond with mechanical precision, but no higher level thought and reasoning. The aliens continue moving down the list, making sure that their attempts to communicate are simple and can be responded to. Dozens more candidates fail.

Passing by the canines, felines, dolphins, and bears we finally reach humanity. They don't have particularly well developed senses. The brains aren't truly unique in any way, though the ratio of components is different than most. These soft squishy things have a written language that has been discerned, so a simple logical problem is given to them. They manage a reasonable response. In order to make sure this was not a fluke 10 more are staged. The human passes nine without issue, demonstrating some promise. An octopus, comparatively, passed almost eight of these tests.


We've got two contestants for an intelligent species on this planet, humans and octopi. All other species demonstrated amazing adaptation, but no skills beyond what their evolutionary hardware would indicate as possible.

A series of mathematical operators are shown to each potential candidate, starting from easiest to most complex process. The octopi samples manage basic addition and subtraction, but no greater ability. A segment of the human population demonstrates addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, and rudimentary algebra. No other being has demonstrated all of these skills, so it is determined that these D students (because really, what is humanity but the species that sank most of its evolutionary energies into evolving the brain) are actually intelligent enough to sustain a conversation. No other animal on the planet can sustain a conversation, despite having immensely better faculties.


This is how scientists are proposing how we might make first contact on other world. It stands to reason that other intelligent life would set the same parameters for determining which species were intelligent enough to converse with. Like it or not, math is the easiest way to determine intelligence. 2000 years ago the smartest beings on the planet could use math to calculate the seasons and movement of objects in the night sky. From that day until now, we've been doing the same thing with greater and greater precision. Those foxes, dogs, whales, etc... haven't appreciably changed what they are doing or why they are doing it. Evolution and selective breeding has honed them into good survivors, but that isn't true intelligence.

I might believe that my pets know to follow my commands. I might be able to determine that a fox is good at roughly calculating ballistic flight trajectories. As an intelligent animal I can build a rocket, calculate the thrust it will generate, determine its ballistic trajectory, and use that to get myself safely off this ball of dirt. All of this is a possibility because of intelligence, derived from an understanding of math. No other known creature on this planet can do that. That octopus is amazing for being able to open a jar, but the greater feat is the technology and infrastructure required to make the jar and keep the octopus alive. In its most blunt form, good adaptation and faculties do not imply intelligent animals. Intelligence is a function of going beyond the raw capabilities of your hardware, and being capable of doing more than you should be able to. We fly without wings, swim without scales, travel vast distances with pinpoint accuracy, and our hardware doesn't offer any way to do this beyond an applied intelligence.
 
Joined
Aug 2, 2009
Messages
4,014 (1.25/day)
Likes
1,832
#54
Concise, well thought out responses will have little effect upon Ford when he gets into one of these ruts. I have witnessed it too many times over at the site that will remain unnamed. Best to move on.
 
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
5,643 (2.24/day)
Likes
3,006
Processor Intel I7 4790k (stock)
Motherboard ASRock H97M-ITX/ac LGA 1150 Intel H97
Cooling Prolimatech megahalem
Memory Crucial 2x4gb 1600mhz
Video Card(s) EVGA 1060 3gb
Storage OWC Mercury SSD 240 GB
Display(s) Asus 144hz
Case Raijintek Metis
Power Supply Corsair SF600 600w psu
Software Windows 10 64 Bit
#55
@lifehasslehoffer
That reminded me of close encounters of the third kind. Honeslty that movie is relevant to this discussion.
 
Joined
Jul 2, 2008
Messages
6,616 (1.83/day)
Likes
9,047
Location
Hillsboro, OR
System Name Main/DC
Processor i7-3770K/i7-2600K
Motherboard MSI Z77A-GD55/GA-P67A-UD4-B3
Cooling Phanteks PH-TC14CS/H80
Memory Crucial Ballistix Sport 16GB (2 x 8GB) LP /4GB Kingston DDR3 1600
Video Card(s) Asus GTX 660 Ti/MSI HD7770
Storage Crucial MX100 256GB/120GB Samsung 830 & Seagate 2TB(died)
Display(s) Asus 24' LED/Samsung SyncMaster B1940
Case P100/Antec P280 It's huge!
Audio Device(s) on board
Power Supply SeaSonic SS-660XP2/Seasonic SS-760XP2
Software Win 7 Home Premiun 64 Bit
#56
So, is education a big circle? Is there a point in education where you start getting stupider?

If animals have "cognitive faculties that are superior to human beings", why haven't they figured out how to dominate us? (no, an isolated incident of an animal killing a human is not dominating)
 
Last edited:

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
21,703 (6.18/day)
Likes
10,848
Location
IA, USA
System Name BY-2015
Processor Intel Core i7-6700K (4 x 4.00 GHz) w/ HT and Turbo on
Motherboard MSI Z170A GAMING M7
Cooling Scythe Kotetsu
Memory 2 x Kingston HyperX DDR4-2133 8 GiB
Video Card(s) PowerColor PCS+ 390 8 GiB DVI + HDMI
Storage Crucial MX300 275 GB, Seagate 6 TB 7200 RPM
Display(s) Samsung SyncMaster T240 24" LCD (1920x1200 HDMI) + Samsung SyncMaster 906BW 19" LCD (1440x900 DVI)
Case Coolermaster HAF 932 w/ USB 3.0 5.25" bay
Audio Device(s) Realtek Onboard, Micca OriGen+
Power Supply Enermax Platimax 850w
Mouse SteelSeries Sensei RAW
Keyboard Tesoro Excalibur
Software Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
Benchmark Scores Faster than the tortoise; slower than the hare.
#57
I'm not entirely sure where to begin here. Let's say tomorrow a species not of this Earth lands in a space craft. Their first task will be to go about determining which species dominates the planet, and if any exist which are capable of responding back to their advances.
Earth's surface is 70% water. Orca dominates the ocean shores; sperm whales (another mammal with a giant brain) dominates the deep oceans.


Upon opening a dialog, they get nowhere. Whale song analysis allows them to talk the same language, but no complex data can be shared and interpreted.
It's likely as difficult for an alien species to communicate with whales as it would be to communicate with humans. Just look at how fantastic we are at communicating with animals; the only ones we have any success with are those that have been domesticated. Science has proven that domesticated animals, especially dogs, are excellent at reading human emotion ("Left Gaze Bias"). There's no reason, whatsoever, to believe aliens would find humans easier to communicate with than other animal species. Hell, look how many problems we have communicating with each other even inside the same language.


No other animal on the planet can sustain a conversation, despite having immensely better faculties.
That's a massive assumption with no imperial evidence to support it. Case in point: try to have a conversation with someone who speaks a different language than you. I guarantee you it won't be sustainable for long until one part learns the other's. The same can be said of all human interactions with animals. A dog may listen for commands or try to evoke a response from a human but that's hardly a conversation because it's very one-sided.

2000 years ago the smartest beings on the planet could use math to calculate the seasons and movement of objects in the night sky.
They weren't using math, they were noticing a pattern and sought to explain why it recurs. FYI, the IQ test uses pattern recognition to score human intelligence, not math. To use math, you need a lot training in regards to what the symbols 0-9 means. You may also require background on operations and formula. All these things must be taught. Pattern recognition is a natural thing all animals can do to some extent.


As an intelligent animal I can build a rocket, calculate the thrust it will generate, determine its ballistic trajectory, and use that to get myself safely off this ball of dirt.
Only because you have access to information from many scientists before you. If you weren't subjected to all that prior information, you'd be more clueless than that fox. The only thing that makes humans truly unique is we store vast amounts of information and we pass it on to future generations. If you remove that, we're only slightly better (mentally, not physically) than the apes swinging in the trees.


If animals have "cognitive faculties that are superior to human beings", why haven't they figured out how to dominate us? (no, an isolated incident of an animal killing a human is not dominating)
We dominate them in our environment and they dominate us in theirs. Get in a fight with a shark without a harpoon, you're going to lose. Get in a fight with a tiger without a dagger, you're going to lose. A rabid dog gets in a fight with a human with a loaded gun, the dog is going to lose. I go back to my first response to lilhasselhoffer in this post: we absolutely do not dominate the ocean.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 2, 2008
Messages
6,616 (1.83/day)
Likes
9,047
Location
Hillsboro, OR
System Name Main/DC
Processor i7-3770K/i7-2600K
Motherboard MSI Z77A-GD55/GA-P67A-UD4-B3
Cooling Phanteks PH-TC14CS/H80
Memory Crucial Ballistix Sport 16GB (2 x 8GB) LP /4GB Kingston DDR3 1600
Video Card(s) Asus GTX 660 Ti/MSI HD7770
Storage Crucial MX100 256GB/120GB Samsung 830 & Seagate 2TB(died)
Display(s) Asus 24' LED/Samsung SyncMaster B1940
Case P100/Antec P280 It's huge!
Audio Device(s) on board
Power Supply SeaSonic SS-660XP2/Seasonic SS-760XP2
Software Win 7 Home Premiun 64 Bit
#58
No matter the environment, WE adapt, WE dominate. If the environment doesn't work for us, WE change the environment. (shark cage) Antelope run away from cheetahs every time. They don't say, "Hey, we out number them 100 to one. Everyone get a stick."

Ford, you are confusing ability with intelligence. An otter may have the ability to use a rock to get food, but think about all the things that we do with a hammer. We even make music with hammers.

If we don't dominate the oceans, then how did we hunt whales to the point of extinction? As impressive as whales are, I've been on an aircraft carrier on the ocean and there is nothing in nature to compare. (although I had to laugh as some dolphins passed us like we were sitting still)

The only thing that makes humans truly unique is we store vast amounts of information and we pass it on to future generations.
You may have just defined intelligence. The ability to recognize, keep, expand on, and pass on what we have learned.
 
Joined
Apr 2, 2011
Messages
2,449 (0.94/day)
Likes
1,877
#59
You know, there appears to be nothing that I can say that you don't have some sort of reason to contest. We begin the conversation with the supposition that "humans aren't smarter than animals," and you wind up with Orca versus human in the water is going to be Orca wins. Congratulations, you've proven that evolution works; at no point have you said why an Orca is intelligent, or even driven by a discernable intelligence.

Math is not as limited as you seem to suppose. Let's just forget that computers use base 2 for storage. Let's forget that hexidecimal code exists. Let's forget that that Babylonians didn't have a base 10 system. Name me one other animal on the entire face of this planet that has explicitly expressed the concept of PI, and my argument can be swept under the rug. The problem is that no animal can do this without math.

Let's also try some math. Give me the value of y in these two equations:
y=(2*3)^2
y=2*3^2
Assuming that you haven't forgotten PEMDAS, you'll note the first is 36, and the second is 18. What about giving me the next number in these series, without ever knowing the mathematical operators:
1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19, ...
1, 4, 9, 16, 25, 36, ...
Being able to recognize numerical pattern and operators doesn't give you crap if you can't figure out why you are doing it. I'm betting that the number strings are familiar to you, and there was no problem seeing the mathematical patterns they represent.


IQ is not a test for intelligence. It is a moving average set so that the average cognitive faculties of humanity can be compared. By these low standards, a tree has a measurable IQ. I don't believe either of us could argue that a tree have cognitive faculties.

Assuming that no records of any previous human before me were kept, we still beat out animals. 2000 years ago the printed word was a rarity. Apprenticeships taught you a skill, and you taught your apprentice what you'd learned. Despite having no printed records humanity managed to improve upon materials, develop chemistry (though it was couched in alchemy at the time), and a way to store their accumulating knowledge.


My last point is going to be language. Your example here is crap. My native tongue is French, your native tongue is Japanese, but we both speak a second language. That second language is English. We can communicate with it, despite your ignorance of French and my ignorance of Japanese. Mathematics is something that will have to be mastered to traverse the great void of space. The extra terrestrials may not even be capable of audible speech, but binary signaling is an easy and effective way of communicating numerical values. If we can't begin to understand that then any hope for humanity's future is already lost. Our closest version of communicating, via a lingua franca, with other members of the animal kingdom is sign language with other great apes. Given that we are basically their cousins, this seems like the only animal which may also display genuine intelligence. It's a pity that they have not ever communicated any great ideas via sign language, simply base desires and what might charitably be called canned responses to identifiable factors.



All of this said, I cannot continue to argue the point. You have a preconceived notion, which is incapable of being changed by argument. Continuing as such would be me wasting my time and yours. I believe that evolution and selective breeding have produced many interesting adaptations which appear to mimic intelligence, but I would note that humans have evolved to see patterns that do not exist. I would like to believe my dog is an intelligent animal, but I've yet to see any proof of it. I don't believe the differentiation between a beautifully crafted evolved response, and a genuinely intelligent response, has yet been proven in other members of the animal kingdom. Differentiation between the two is difficult, which may well be where our irreconcilable philosophical differences lie.
 
Joined
Nov 27, 2012
Messages
357 (0.18/day)
Likes
28
System Name Broken Butterfly.
Processor Intel Core i5-3570.
Motherboard Asus P8H67-M LE.
Cooling Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus.
Memory 2x4gB Corsair Value Series.
Video Card(s) EVGA GTX 660 FTW Signature 2.
Storage 180gB Intel SSD 330 Series, WD Blue 500gB (AAKX).
Display(s) Samsung BX2031.
Case CM Elite 334.
Power Supply Corsair CX 430.
#60
If you're gonna say no, then you have to back it up in some way...
No. YOU have to try harder to convince us with your number one and the definitive point.
 

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
21,703 (6.18/day)
Likes
10,848
Location
IA, USA
System Name BY-2015
Processor Intel Core i7-6700K (4 x 4.00 GHz) w/ HT and Turbo on
Motherboard MSI Z170A GAMING M7
Cooling Scythe Kotetsu
Memory 2 x Kingston HyperX DDR4-2133 8 GiB
Video Card(s) PowerColor PCS+ 390 8 GiB DVI + HDMI
Storage Crucial MX300 275 GB, Seagate 6 TB 7200 RPM
Display(s) Samsung SyncMaster T240 24" LCD (1920x1200 HDMI) + Samsung SyncMaster 906BW 19" LCD (1440x900 DVI)
Case Coolermaster HAF 932 w/ USB 3.0 5.25" bay
Audio Device(s) Realtek Onboard, Micca OriGen+
Power Supply Enermax Platimax 850w
Mouse SteelSeries Sensei RAW
Keyboard Tesoro Excalibur
Software Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
Benchmark Scores Faster than the tortoise; slower than the hare.
#61
If we don't dominate the oceans, then how did we hunt whales to the point of extinction? As impressive as whales are, I've been on an aircraft carrier on the ocean and there is nothing in nature to compare. (although I had to laugh as some dolphins passed us like we were sitting still)
Whales don't have gills. They have to surface to breath. That's when whalers get them. How little we know about the deep oceans is demonstrated by the theory and how long it to get proof of the existence of giant squids. Unlike whales, they never surface; like whales, they disappear into the deep for extended periods of time and we have no idea what they are doing when they do.


You may have just defined intelligence. The ability to recognize, keep, expand on, and pass on what we have learned.
That's bookkeeping. :roll: Seriously, look how much humanity's collective knowledge declined during the Dark Ages. I don't think it is what makes us intelligent but it is certainly what makes us unique.


Congratulations, you've proven that evolution works; at no point have you said why an Orca is intelligent, or even driven by a discernable intelligence.
Humans and orcas are social; orcas and humans are predators; orcas exhibit behaviors we'd call "human" in situations of duress (e.g. if you take a calf from its mother, the mother will try to free, or least stay close to, the calf where virtually all other animals would flee); orcas plot against their prey (e.g. if a seal is on an ice burg, they'll systemically destroy the ice berg until they reach the seal) and work in groups to hunt, like humans; they try to fool predators like humans (e.g. a pod they took calves from when they tried again, the mothers and calves dove underwater and took a different branch in a river while the males stayed on the surface and went down another branch; the whalers only caught the ruse because they had aircraft monitoring them and saw it happen); and this is only from the little we know about them--often observed, candidly, in nature.


"Smarter" is a bad word and it always will be because it lacks specificity. I simply have a problem with people dismissing (especially arrogantly so) the intelligence of animals. They may not be on par with humans or even close to humans for the most part but the majority of them don't qualify as being the opposite of "smart:" stupid. Evolution has a way of dealing with them.


Apprenticeships taught you a skill, and you taught your apprentice what you'd learned. Despite having no printed records humanity managed to improve upon materials, develop chemistry (though it was couched in alchemy at the time), and a way to store their accumulating knowledge.
I was referring to being alone without tools and no prior knowledge (think "George of the Jungle"). As I said repeatedly, humans are exceptional in the amount of information we pass from one generation to the next through teaching and learning. I am in no way dismissing the same thing may happen with other animal species because it may. The only thing definitive is the volume and broadness of information.


My last point is going to be language. Your example here is crap. My native tongue is French, your native tongue is Japanese, but we both speak a second language. That second language is English. We can communicate with it, despite your ignorance of French and my ignorance of Japanese. Mathematics is something that will have to be mastered to traverse the great void of space. The extra terrestrials may not even be capable of audible speech, but binary signaling is an easy and effective way of communicating numerical values. If we can't begin to understand that then any hope for humanity's future is already lost. Our closest version of communicating, via a lingua franca, with other members of the animal kingdom is sign language with other great apes. Given that we are basically their cousins, this seems like the only animal which may also display genuine intelligence. It's a pity that they have not ever communicated any great ideas via sign language, simply base desires and what might charitably be called canned responses to identifiable factors.
*sigh* Research the Choctaw code talkers. The allied forces used an old language the Germans/Japanese couldn't even recognize. It was more effective at sending secret messages than any kind of "math" solution because it wasn't decryptable--it was simply alien. If you don't have one of those Native Americans explaining to you how the language works, you'll never figure it out. We have the same problem communicating with animal species. We teach them some of our language but they don't teach us theirs; thus, they can understand us to some extent but we don't understand them beyond observing behaviors. I'm pretty sure trainers are familiar with the phrase dolphins and orcas use for "fish" but that's about as far as it goes.

When's the last time you tried to sign Einstein's theory of relativity? Bare in mind that human sign language is alien to apes yet, they learned it and use it. Speaking of apes, I learned how best to open a banana from them. :p
 
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
5,643 (2.24/day)
Likes
3,006
Processor Intel I7 4790k (stock)
Motherboard ASRock H97M-ITX/ac LGA 1150 Intel H97
Cooling Prolimatech megahalem
Memory Crucial 2x4gb 1600mhz
Video Card(s) EVGA 1060 3gb
Storage OWC Mercury SSD 240 GB
Display(s) Asus 144hz
Case Raijintek Metis
Power Supply Corsair SF600 600w psu
Software Windows 10 64 Bit
#62
Joined
Sep 3, 2010
Messages
3,449 (1.22/day)
Likes
1,696
Location
NL, Europe
Processor Intel Core i5-4460
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-Z97-D3H
Cooling Arctic Freezer i11
Memory Crucial Ballistix Sport, DDR3-1600, 2x4 GB kit
Video Card(s) Sapphire Radeon R9 270X Vapor-X
Storage Kingston SSDNow V300 (120GB) + Seagate Barracuda 7200.14 (1TB)
Display(s) AOC G2260VWQ6 | Acer AL1916 (in reserve)
Case Cooler Maste Centurion 5
Audio Device(s) integrated
Power Supply Seasonic G450
Mouse Logitech G500
Keyboard Qpad MK-50
Software Windows 10
#63
Seriously, look how much humanity's collective knowledge declined during the Dark Ages.
I did not. The Orient kept developing, partly using knowledge that the Occident (and Orient, too of course) had developed during the Classical period or before that. I hope you do realise that or base 10 mathematical system is Oriental? Our numberical symbols are Oriental, too, although I do not know whether our basic mathematical operators (+ - / * ( ) ) are all being eastern as well.
 

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
21,703 (6.18/day)
Likes
10,848
Location
IA, USA
System Name BY-2015
Processor Intel Core i7-6700K (4 x 4.00 GHz) w/ HT and Turbo on
Motherboard MSI Z170A GAMING M7
Cooling Scythe Kotetsu
Memory 2 x Kingston HyperX DDR4-2133 8 GiB
Video Card(s) PowerColor PCS+ 390 8 GiB DVI + HDMI
Storage Crucial MX300 275 GB, Seagate 6 TB 7200 RPM
Display(s) Samsung SyncMaster T240 24" LCD (1920x1200 HDMI) + Samsung SyncMaster 906BW 19" LCD (1440x900 DVI)
Case Coolermaster HAF 932 w/ USB 3.0 5.25" bay
Audio Device(s) Realtek Onboard, Micca OriGen+
Power Supply Enermax Platimax 850w
Mouse SteelSeries Sensei RAW
Keyboard Tesoro Excalibur
Software Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
Benchmark Scores Faster than the tortoise; slower than the hare.
#64
Yeah, the Dark Ages hit Europe. Had the east stopped working on mathematical concepts or it was destroyed there too, we probably wouldn't have had a lot of technology we do today.


I brought it up earlier in the thread but this is a story of human and orca's cooperation. Communication happened at some level here. http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/episodes/killers-in-eden/introduction/1048/
I didn't know that whalers and whales have a symbiotic relationship in some scenarios. It makes me sad for their prey; that's so unfair getting double-teamed. :(
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
5,643 (2.24/day)
Likes
3,006
Processor Intel I7 4790k (stock)
Motherboard ASRock H97M-ITX/ac LGA 1150 Intel H97
Cooling Prolimatech megahalem
Memory Crucial 2x4gb 1600mhz
Video Card(s) EVGA 1060 3gb
Storage OWC Mercury SSD 240 GB
Display(s) Asus 144hz
Case Raijintek Metis
Power Supply Corsair SF600 600w psu
Software Windows 10 64 Bit
#65
I didn't know that whalers and whales have a symbiotic relationship in some scenarios. It makes me sad for their prey; that's so unfair getting double-teamed. :(
I watched the full pbs documentary on this. You got it wrong. The orca's love the tongue. The orca's would help bring the whale in for the whalers. The whalers would let the orca's eat the tongue, and the orca's would leave the rest for the whalers. The sad part is that at some point people decided to hurt the orca's that were helping them. Since then relations have not been as good. They remembered.
 

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
21,703 (6.18/day)
Likes
10,848
Location
IA, USA
System Name BY-2015
Processor Intel Core i7-6700K (4 x 4.00 GHz) w/ HT and Turbo on
Motherboard MSI Z170A GAMING M7
Cooling Scythe Kotetsu
Memory 2 x Kingston HyperX DDR4-2133 8 GiB
Video Card(s) PowerColor PCS+ 390 8 GiB DVI + HDMI
Storage Crucial MX300 275 GB, Seagate 6 TB 7200 RPM
Display(s) Samsung SyncMaster T240 24" LCD (1920x1200 HDMI) + Samsung SyncMaster 906BW 19" LCD (1440x900 DVI)
Case Coolermaster HAF 932 w/ USB 3.0 5.25" bay
Audio Device(s) Realtek Onboard, Micca OriGen+
Power Supply Enermax Platimax 850w
Mouse SteelSeries Sensei RAW
Keyboard Tesoro Excalibur
Software Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
Benchmark Scores Faster than the tortoise; slower than the hare.
#66
Ha! The tongue? I would have never guessed that.

Orcas remembering doesn't surprise me. It'll probably be generations before they trust again.
 
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Messages
2,553 (0.80/day)
Likes
1,013
Location
United States
System Name Aluminum Mallard
Processor Intel i7 940
Motherboard ASUS Rampage III: Gene
Cooling Noctua C-12P
Memory 6GB Corsair Dominator DDR3
Video Card(s) ASUS HD5870
Storage OCZ Vertex 2 60GB SSD, 2 x Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 in RAID0
Display(s) HP w2338h
Case Corsair 700D
Audio Device(s) On Board
Power Supply Corsair TX850
Software Win7 Ult 64 bit
Benchmark Scores 31 FPS in Dalaran.
#67
All of you arguing overwhether animals are smarter than humans.

I can't wait for the day when the whales begin to beach themselves with weapons and the great whale uprising begins. They've been practicing for years, to lull us into a false sense of security and will bring ever increasing amounts of victims to try and "help" them back into th ocean. Who's the dumbass then? Us.
 
Joined
Oct 2, 2004
Messages
13,070 (2.62/day)
Likes
6,347
Location
Europe\Slovenia
System Name Dark Silence 2
Processor Intel Core i7 5820K @ 4.5 GHz (1.15V)
Motherboard MSI X99A Gaming 7
Cooling Cooler Master Nepton 120XL
Memory 32 GB DDR4 Kingston HyperX Fury 2400 MHz @ 2666 MHz
Video Card(s) AORUS GeForce GTX 1080Ti 11GB
Storage Samsung 850 Pro 2TB SSD (3D V-NAND)
Display(s) ASUS VG248QE 144Hz 1ms (DisplayPort)
Case Corsair Carbide 330R Titanium
Audio Device(s) Creative Sound BlasterX AE-5 + Altec Lansing MX5021 (HiFi capacitors and OPAMP upgrade)
Power Supply BeQuiet! Dark Power Pro 11 750W
Mouse Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum
Keyboard Cherry Stream XT Black
Software Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
#68
I wish my dog could speak. She's very smart and only thing really holding it back is the lack of ability to speak. But she developed ways of telling us what she wants with her behavior, on her own, without any training what so ever. And i've seen similar behavior with other animals, so yeah, i believe they are very smart, in a way we helped them become smarter, but at the same time we are holding them back...
 

Frick

Fishfaced Nincompoop
Joined
Feb 27, 2006
Messages
14,921 (3.34/day)
Likes
5,439
System Name A dancer in your disco of fire
Processor i3 4130 3.4Ghz
Motherboard MSI B85M-E45
Cooling Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo
Memory 4 x 4GB Crucial Ballistix Sport 1400Mhz
Video Card(s) Asus GTX 760 DCU2OC 2GB
Storage Crucial BX100 120GB | WD Blue 1TB x 2
Display(s) BenQ GL2450HT
Case AeroCool DS Cube White
Power Supply Cooler Master G550M
Mouse Intellimouse Explorer 3.0
Keyboard Dell SK-3205
Software Windows 10 Pro
#69
All of you arguing overwhether animals are smarter than humans.

I can't wait for the day when the whales begin to beach themselves with weapons and the great whale uprising begins. They've been practicing for years, to lull us into a false sense of security and will bring ever increasing amounts of victims to try and "help" them back into th ocean. Who's the dumbass then? Us.
 
Joined
Apr 21, 2007
Messages
26 (0.01/day)
Likes
5
#70
The one thing that dogs lack, that humans do not, is the ability to chain together logical associations (or assumptions) based upon previous experiences (memory). Here is something I ran into with dog owners on a somewhat regular basis when helping them modify their dog's behavior.

A) Fido gets into the trash and makes a mess when the owner is gone.
B) The owner comes home and finds the mess.
C) The owner reprimands the dog for making a mess.
D) Dog slinks away after being scolded, so owner assumes Fido “knew he did something wrong.”

This is completely false. Fido does not, and never will, make the association that A caused C, and therefore resulted in his response in D. A
When my childhood dog was caught doing that, it got a lecture from my mother while she cleaned up the mess. The dog didn't completely stop getting into the trash from then on, but when it did it would look guilty, even my mother came home from shopping, before she knew what happened to the trash. This dog would also show no interest in its mirror image, after sniffing the nose initially.
 
Top