I dont understand the phone OS world.....

[Frick]

I dunno.. he has said more than a few times that he has an old phone, just needs it as a phone, does not care about updates, and anything else.. just needs a phone. Which is totally ok, but most people who spend decent money on a phone use it as a pocket computer.

What can a $1000 phone do that a $100 phone can't (not counting games)?

 

[_roman_]

What can a $1000 phone do that a $100 phone can't (not counting games)?

Build quality sometimes is better = Better materials

Better cameras. Some iphones had decent cameras

Not a faulty battery, which was empty at 50% of shown capacity after a short time period like 3 months or less. Looking at my previous cubot king gong (cubot is a phone maker like xiaomi or samsung)

snapdragon plattform which most likely support custom roms. Which may give a longer livespan of phone support regarding software

Some phone brands have more common and more affordable spare parts.

I bought other brands like xiaomi, cubot, lg to go back to the very bad choice of samsung. The phone market is kinda small. I used an iphone at work to never touch one again.

 

[Vayra86]

Android works with anything. Apple works with Apple. That's all I'm saying.

Yeah we can read what you're saying, but...

What are you talking about? There is literally no difference if I connect my phone over usb to a PC between Android and Iphone, for example.
Similarly, the Play Store is as much a walled garden as the app store.
And with the 'share' functionality on either phone, you will be able to connect to any non-Android/non-Iphone device to share anything you want. There are no restrictions here anymore. File formats work across the board.

So pray tell, beyond a USB cable having one different connector on one end of it... what in Android works 'with anything' in any other way than an Apple phone?

Oh yeah of course... an Apple phone is difficult to sideload onto. If that's what you do, then sure, get Android, but really, you're not getting Android either, you just want your own OS on it.

I dislike Apple's Life of getting you/Forcing you into their Eco-System

Yeah... I've been using Apple phones for the last decade now and haven't experienced this. I have a Windows PC. An Apple phone. And no urge whatsoever to get anything else from Apple ever. They're also not nagging me to get a Mac or anything - not once.

Its funny how much emotion and (frankly, bullshit) arguments pop up in relation to Apple here.

It is par for the course of this topic I guess, which is titled 'I don't understand the phone OS world'... That much is clear, in a general sense here lol.

As much as I have to say you are technically correct, that screen size is pretty awful.

It ain't big. Its also just whatever you're used to. I like it for the simple fact this model actually fits in your pocket. Screen's large enough to read the newspaper on, and websites, and use all the apps it offers...

Its funny how we flip flop between 'can't be expensive' 'its just a phone' to 'must have huge screen' imho
But just so that's established, YES, you can have an Iphone that just works and does everything you need it to do for around 400 bucks, new in box.

You can indeed also get an Android phone at half - 2/3rd that amount with somewhat similar-ish specs... except the user experience is almost certainly going to be far worse, and its guaranteed to not last as long in one way or another. Been there done that with several Moto G's (which are really nice phones in the non-ridiculous segment of Android). Not one of them had the lifetime of an Iphone SE.

 

[Frick]

Build quality sometimes is better = Better materials

Better cameras. Some iphones had decent cameras

Not a faulty battery, which was empty at 50% of shown capacity after a short time period like 3 months or less. Looking at my previous cubot king gong (cubot is a phone maker like xiaomi or samsung)

snapdragon plattform which most likely support custom roms. Which may give a longer livespan of phone support regarding software

Some phone brands have more common and more affordable spare parts.

I bought other brands like xiaomi, cubot, lg to go back to the very bad choice of samsung. The phone market is kinda small. I used an iphone at work to never touch one again.

It was a response to this:

You are happy with a 5 year old shit brick that you can’t do anything with.. I would not expect you to care anything about phones..

A $100 phone from 2020 can do almost everything a $1000 phone from 2025 can do. It'll not be as "good", but it'll work.

 

[theFOoL]

Yeah... I've been using Apple phones for the last decade now and haven't experienced this. I have a Windows PC. An Apple phone. And no urge whatsoever to get anything else from Apple ever. They're also not nagging me to get a Mac or anything - not once

It's mainly the cost...

 

[leonavis]

There's more to it then that.


The biggest reason is these devices are running Linux on ARM CPUs. For these ARM platforms, drivers bust be compiled before booting the OS. On x86 machines, this isnt an issue because we have default drivers that can allow boot and more advanced drivers can be installed after the fact. Most x86 CPUs also have open source drivers.

This is NOT true on ARM chips. Each ROM must have its drivers at time of compilation. Most of these chips use closed source tech, and their drivers are only updated for a few years. This means once they age your OS must use older unsupported drivers on a newer OS, which since it cannot be guaranteed, most OEMs are unwilling to do. Custom ROMs can do it, but this can cause issues and as noted Qualcomm is the only company that reliably gets custom ROMs, largely because you can download their driver packs without being a corporation. Companies like mediatek will stonewall you on getting all you need to roll your own.

Also, every platform is different. Imagine if you needed a custom Windows OS install for every different motherboard and CPU combo out there. That is the reality of phones, they are a PITA to support compared to PCs.

This. If the company developing the chip does not make drivers available, it's very hard to get the hardware running. Look at Nvidia-drivers on Linux, nouveau was entirely reverse-engineered and while it does give you a picture and some basic functionality, it's no good for higher functions. Look at broadcom-WLAN-chips or Realtek on Linux, when the company refuses to give you drivers, you can just throw that hardware out because it will not work. By now that usually works with some tinkering, but historically they have made plenty problems and when you want to use Linux the general suggestion is to take hardware that is known to be fully supported - which is plenty, by now, but wasn't always.

Phone operation systems need big propietary blobs that you may or may not get from the vendor, and if not, good luck getting the OS to work. Intel and AMD both release drivers that are already compiled into the linux-kernel, so it's no trouble for the Linux-kernel to get those working at boot. The situation is very different with phones.

 

[Hecate91]

Oh yeah of course... an Apple phone is difficult to sideload onto. If that's what you do, then sure, get Android, but really, you're not getting Android either, you just want your own OS on it.

It is still Android, just opened up to allow you to remove what you want, or run apps which aren't on the Play store.

Yeah... I've been using Apple phones for the last decade now and haven't experienced this. I have a Windows PC. An Apple phone. And no urge whatsoever to get anything else from Apple ever. They're also not nagging me to get a Mac or anything - not once.

Its funny how much emotion and (frankly, bullshit) arguments pop up in relation to Apple here.

It is par for the course of this topic I guess, which is titled 'I don't understand the phone OS world'... That much is clear, in a general sense here lol.

I'm sure a good majority of Apple users have given into the walled garden ecosystem and have bought an ipad, macbook, or airpods.
I do find it interesting the topic has turned into a bunch of Apple users yelling Android sucks, but the phone OS world really doesn't make any sense with the few choices consumers really have. Either pay $1000 to be into a locked ecosystem, or choose a less locked down one with varying software support.

It ain't big. Its also just whatever you're used to. I like it for the simple fact this model actually fits in your pocket. Screen's large enough to read the newspaper on, and websites, and use all the apps it offers...

Its funny how we flip flop between 'can't be expensive' 'its just a phone' to 'must have huge screen' imho
But just so that's established, YES, you can have an Iphone that just works and does everything you need it to do for around 400 bucks, new in box.

You can indeed also get an Android phone at half - 2/3rd that amount with somewhat similar-ish specs... except the user experience is almost certainly going to be far worse, and its guaranteed to not last as long in one way or another. Been there done that with several Moto G's (which are really nice phones in the non-ridiculous segment of Android). Not one of them had the lifetime of an Iphone SE.

IMO, it isn't flip flopping, but the expectation of getting a decently sized screen comparable to Android devices at a reasonable price, though Apple isn't known for being generous with hardware.
Also not everyones needs are the same, and I think most people could use a $200-300 Moto G just fine for daily use. When my phone goes into a case I don't care how "premium" it feels.

 

[Vayra86]

It is still Android, just opened up to allow you to remove what you want, or run apps which aren't on the Play store.

I'm sure a good majority of Apple users have given into the walled garden ecosystem and have bought an ipad, macbook, or airpods.
I do find it interesting the topic has turned into a bunch of Apple users yelling Android sucks, but the phone OS world really doesn't make any sense with the few choices consumers really have. Either pay $1000 to be into a locked ecosystem, or choose a less locked down one with varying software support.

IMO, it isn't flip flopping, but the expectation of getting a decently sized screen comparable to Android devices at a reasonable price, though Apple isn't known for being generous with hardware.
Also not everyones needs are the same, and I think most people could use a $200-300 Moto G just fine for daily use. When my phone goes into a case I don't care how "premium" it feels.

Never said Android sucks. Nuance was there and then people, including you for some strange reason keep their incorrect argument of a $1000,- phone intact while you are quoting a post of mine pointing out they exist at less than half that price. Bias is real... lol

With Apple you trade specs/$ for an excellent, locked, and perfect GUI OS. Its always been like that, and thats all it really is. I dont buy the weird logic of having a phone for basic needs and then promoting sideloading in the same argument either...

The reason Apple was mentioned is only in terms of the way they handle their OS in comparison to Android, and each approach has clearly led to marked differences in how they work. Android is cheaper for clear reasons and they relate to the quality of the OS directly.

 

[AusWolf]

Yeah we can read what you're saying, but...

What are you talking about? There is literally no difference if I connect my phone over usb to a PC between Android and Iphone, for example.
Similarly, the Play Store is as much a walled garden as the app store.
And with the 'share' functionality on either phone, you will be able to connect to any non-Android/non-Iphone device to share anything you want. There are no restrictions here anymore. File formats work across the board.

So you can see and copy files onto an iPhone with a regular OS file browser, no other software is needed anymore? That's good to know.

So pray tell, beyond a USB cable having one different connector on one end of it... what in Android works 'with anything' in any other way than an Apple phone?

That cable is more expensive than a USB type C cable. Not to mention the iPhone being more expensive as well which is my main problem. Until I can get a brand new iPhone for 200 quid, I'm not gonna have one.

You are happy with a 5 year old shit brick that you can’t do anything with.. I would not expect you to care anything about phones..

If that 5 year old shit brick runs my online banking apps, Whatsapp, Messenger and such, Google Maps, and can browse the web, then yes, I'm happy with it. There's no need to fix what isn't broken.

 

[Hecate91]

Never said Android sucks. Nuance was there and then people, including you for some strange reason keep their incorrect argument of a $1000,- phone intact while you are quoting a post of mine pointing out they exist at less than half that price. Bias is real... lol

With Apple you trade specs/$ for an excellent, locked, and perfect GUI OS. Its always been like that, and thats all it really is. I dont buy the weird logic of having a phone for basic needs and then promoting sideloading in the same argument either...

The reason Apple was mentioned is only in terms of the way they handle their OS in comparison to Android, and each approach has clearly led to marked differences in how they work. Android is cheaper for clear reasons and they relate to the quality of the OS directly.

I mean it wasn't directed at you specifically, but when people say a phone from 2023 is "shit" then there is some unreasonable bias. My mentioning an iPhone is $1000 isn't, $1000 the price without having to make any compromises to the display,cameras, or battery for example, things you can get on Android phones for half as much.
No OS is perfect though, like I said not everyone has the same needs with a phone, if someone wants to sideload I don't see any issues with it. All of these biased assumptions over OS quality when the reality is most people don't care at all or get obsessed over updates, as long as the phone does the basic things people do with their phone, any phone from the past 5 years or so will do just fine.

 

[Vayra86]

I mean it wasn't directed at you specifically, but when people say a phone from 2023 is "shit" then there is some unreasonable bias. My mentioning an iPhone is $1000 isn't, $1000 the price without having to make any compromises to the display,cameras, or battery for example, things you can get on Android phones for half as much.
No OS is perfect though, and you accuse me of bias, lol. Like I said not everyone has the same needs with a phone, if someone wants to sideload I don't see any issues with it. All of these biased assumptions over OS quality when the reality is most people don't care at all or get obsessed over updates, as long as the phone does the basic things people do with their phone, any phone from the past 5 years or so will do just fine.

Fair.

So you can see and copy files onto an iPhone with a regular OS file browser, no other software is needed anymore? That's good to know.


That cable is more expensive than a USB type C cable. Not to mention the iPhone being more expensive as well which is my main problem. Until I can get a brand new iPhone for 200 quid, I'm not gonna have one.


If that 5 year old shit brick runs my online banking apps, Whatsapp, Messenger and such, Google Maps, and can browse the web, then yes, I'm happy with it. There's no need to fix what isn't broken.

Its true and I wont deny they are more expensive. Then again you get a cable with the phone so yeah. Minor issue really.

 

[Onasi]

That cable is more expensive than a USB type C cable.

I just opened my local Ugreen partner retailer and the difference between a USB-C-to-Lightning and a USB-C-to-USB-C cable is… uhhh, around 15 cents after converting? Truly, an unbearable price differential. Not to mention that it’s irrelevant these days - Apple is in USB-C just like everyone else.

Not to mention the iPhone being more expensive as well which is my main problem. Until I can get a brand new iPhone for 200 quid, I'm not gonna have one.

*sigh* It’s not Apple being more expensive. It’s them not producing (and never have previously) ultra-budget offerings. They compete versus your Galaxy S and Xiaomi Mi type phones, which cost just as much. That’s just the reality. You aren’t ever getting a brand new flagship for 200 bucks/quid/whatever. This isn’t to say there is anything wrong with 200 dollar phones, but the comparison is faulty in the first place.

 

[AusWolf]

Its true and I wont deny they are more expensive. Then again you get a cable with the phone so yeah. Minor issue really.

I have a bazillion USB type-C cables at home, most of them a lot better quality than the one you get with your phone.

*sigh* It’s not Apple being more expensive. It’s them not producing (and never have previously) ultra-budget offerings. They compete versus your Galaxy S and Xiaomi Mi type phones, which cost just as much. That’s just the reality. You aren’t ever getting a brand new flagship for 200 bucks/quid/whatever. This isn’t to say there is anything wrong with 200 dollar phones, but the comparison is faulty in the first place.

That's not my problem. I don't care about "flagship" phones. I don't get why the sigh.

 

[Hecate91]

Build quality sometimes is better = Better materials

Better cameras. Some iphones had decent cameras

Not a faulty battery, which was empty at 50% of shown capacity after a short time period like 3 months or less. Looking at my previous cubot king gong (cubot is a phone maker like xiaomi or samsung)

snapdragon plattform which most likely support custom roms. Which may give a longer livespan of phone support regarding software

Some phone brands have more common and more affordable spare parts.

I bought other brands like xiaomi, cubot, lg to go back to the very bad choice of samsung. The phone market is kinda small. I used an iphone at work to never touch one again.

I would only count build quality if someone might be rough on their phone, otherwise using a case solves a phone feeling cheap.

Better cameras, maybe for a photo enthusiast, though even budget phones have acceptable cameras, depends on the want or need for a higher quality camera or one with more features.

Any phone could have a faulty battery, and IMO Samsung and Apple charge too much for battery replacement.

Brands like Google and Motorola support the consumer better for spare parts with more affordable batteries and replacement screens, and even offer official iFixit kits and guides.

Other less well known brands may be difficult to get parts for, I had an iPhone for work, and would never buy one for personal use. I see no point as a phone is just a tool to me, I don't stare at it all day, and when phones from Google, Samsung or Motorola can be had for half of what an iphone sells for I don't see the point in spending more.

 

[AusWolf]

Build quality sometimes is better = Better materials

I don't know how that matters. What material is "better"? People put their phones in shitty plastic a case anyway.

Not a faulty battery, which was empty at 50% of shown capacity after a short time period like 3 months or less. Looking at my previous cubot king gong (cubot is a phone maker like xiaomi or samsung)

That's not up to the phone manufacturer. They order their batteries from other companies.

 

[Onasi]

That's not my problem. I don't care about "flagship" phones. I don't get why the sigh.

Because this entire thread is you fighting windmills and missing the point. Yes, your 200 dollar phone is functionally identical to an iPhone. So is a Corolla functionally identical to a BMW M2. Still, some people prefer and are willing to pay more for that BMW and nobody seriously compares the two. That’s it. That’s the point. I don’t care about Apple’s ecosystem (which they really don’t force you into, contrary to popular belief), I don’t care about the specs, I care about the UX. Which is why, as I mentioned, I am on iPhone. It just is nice and works flawlessly. I am in agreement with Dro who previously said that Android is abysmal dogshit. It is. Yes, it’s open (theoretically) and you can do a lot of cool things with it, but every time I use an Android phone, even I high-end one, I want to have a stroke because after 15 years the basic UX is still “what the actual fuck” tier and the fact that everyone insists on their own launcher doesn’t help matters.

 

[Hecate91]

That's not my problem. I don't care about "flagship" phones. I don't get why the sigh.

I don't understand the obsession with flagship phones either, but I would guess that is part of the reason why the phone and OS market makes no sense. People don't do any research on a better value and buy the $1500 Apple or Samsung phone.
Phones are boring to me, and they're just a tool to get things done, there hasn't been anything exciting from the popular brands in years.

 

[freeagent]

Its like 65 bucks for a battery replacement, and with that you get fresh waterproofing gasket material.. and warranty.. seems like an ok deal.

 

[AusWolf]

Because this entire thread is you fighting windmills and missing the point.

I'm not. The people insisting that I should care about Apple because "it's better" are. No, to me it's not. It's a piece of metal and plastic to write messages on like anything else.

Yes, your 200 dollar phone is functionally identical to an iPhone. So is a Corolla functionally identical to a BMW M2. Still, some people prefer and are willing to pay more for that BMW and nobody seriously compares the two.

That attitude is what leads to so many people overspending on shit that they don't need. They believe the BMW is better because they're told to believe it, not because they've experienced it.

I compare what I want, and if a $1000 gadget does the same thing that a $200 one does, then I'll get the $200 one. Simple as that.

I don’t care about Apple’s ecosystem (which they really don’t force you into, contrary to popular belief), I don’t care about the specs, I care about the UX. Which is why, as I mentioned, I am on iPhone. It just is nice and works flawlessly. I am in agreement with Dro who previously said that Android is abysmal dogshit. It is. Yes, it’s open (theoretically) and you can do a lot of cool things with it, but every time I use an Android phone, even I high-end one, I want to have a stroke because after 15 years the basic UX is still “what the actual fuck” tier and the fact that everyone insists on their own launcher doesn’t help matters.

I'm not here to discuss Android vs iOS, but you calling one dogshit without any explanation doesn't land you too much credit. Of course you use what you want, I don't care.

Phones are boring to me, and they're just a tool to get things done, there hasn't been anything exciting from the popular brands in years.

I couldn't agree more! I miss the days when different phones were actually different.

 

[Onasi]

I compare what I want, and if a $1000 gadget does the same thing that a $200 one does, then I'll get the $200 one. Simple as that.

So are cheap membrane keyboards equal to a nice custom build mech? Is a Logitech B100 equal to an ultra-light magnesium mouse? A simple office LCD is equal to a high refresh OLED? They do the same thing, after all.

That attitude is what leads to so many people overspending on shit that they don't need. They believe the BMW is better because they're told to believe it, not because they've experienced it.

Nice soapbox, but counting other peoples money is in poor taste, I would say.

I'm not here to discuss Android vs iOS, but you calling one dogshit without any explanation doesn't land you too much credit.

I am obviously exaggerating for the memes, but I already explained myself in the very first post I made in this thread - the basic UX is what I consider the most important thing and Apple have nailed it. Android is fine and all, perfectly usable, but the constant inconsistencies and switch ups between various versions and launchers drive me up a wall.

 

[AusWolf]

So are cheap membrane keyboards equal to a nice custom build mech? Is a Logitech B100 equal to an ultra-light magnesium mouse? A simple office LCD is equal to a high refresh OLED? They do the same thing, after all.

Like I said above the part of my message that you quoted: "They believe the BMW is better because they're told to believe it, not because they've experienced it." If you've experienced the difference, like I have with mechanical keyboards (which I agree that are a million times better), then sure, get the more expensive model. I'm not saying that there isn't any difference. I'm saying that such a difference doesn't actually matter to the vast majority of people who buy the expensive stuff anyway just because they're told that it's better.

Nice soapbox, but counting other peoples money is in poor taste, I would say.

I'm not counting other people's money. They do whatever the hell they want with it. I just have my opinion about it (that most people are oversold on stuff that they don't need).

I am obviously exaggerating for the memes, but I already explained myself in the very first post I made in this thread - the basic UX is what I consider the most important thing and Apple have nailed it. Android is fine and all, perfectly usable, but the constant inconsistencies and switch ups between various versions and launchers drive me up a wall.

If that bothers you, fair point. Personally, I consider it nit-picking.

 

[leonavis]

I compare what I want, and if a $1000 gadget does the same thing that a $200 one does, then I'll get the $200 one. Simple as that.

My 180€ (one and a half year ago) Motorola actually has more storage and RAM and a display with double the refresh rate compared to a 750€ (today) iPhone 16.

That is somewhat wild.

But, of course, it always depends on what you need. I like plenty space and Ram and prioritize it over for example a high end processor or camera.

I do however have the slight suspicion that a lot of people buying iPhones don't even think about stuff like that.

 

[AusWolf]

I do however have the slight suspicion that a lot of people buying iPhones don't even think about stuff like that.

That's exactly my point, thanks. Most people just assume that "more expensive = better", which 1. isn't always the case, and 2. isn't always necessary to satisfy one's own needs.

 

[Solaris17]

That's exactly my point, thanks. Most people just assume that "more expensive = better", which 1. isn't always the case, and 2. isn't always necessary to satisfy one's own needs.

That isn’t a point; that’s an opinion. Maybe they aren’t buying it because “expensive must be better.” You are assuming anyone buying a phone that is more expensive then another with equal or worse specs is an idiot, but specs aren’t the only thing to base a phone off of.

the name of this thread alone is about operating systems and pissing about people’s spending habits again as you have a really bad habit of doing really detracts from threads and honestly any kind of serious conversation with you; which is at this point futile.

 

[leonavis]

That's exactly my point, thanks. Most people just assume that "more expensive = better", which 1. isn't always the case, and 2. isn't always necessary to satisfy one's own needs.

Well, also, a lot of people just always buy iPhones, so they keep buying iPhones every time they need a new phone. They like the UI, they like the design and they don't wanna get used to something else. Also, status, but that's rather a concern for younger folks.

I think plenty people - especially not tech-savy ones - are just like that. They buy what they've always bought. I know plenty of these kinds of people.

And that's okay, too, it's a big achievement for a company to build up this sort of loyalty. And Apple has done that very well.