I dont understand the phone OS world.....

[AusWolf]

That isn’t a point; that’s an opinion. Maybe they aren’t buying it because “expensive must be better.” You are assuming anyone buying a phone that is more expensive then another with equal or worse specs is an idiot, but specs aren’t the only thing to base a phone off of.

I personally know many people with flagship Samsungs and iPhones who only ever browse Facebook and play 2D puzzle games on them. They are idiots in their buying choice.

the name of this thread alone is about operating systems and pissing about people’s spending habits again as you have a really bad habit of doing really detracts from threads and honestly any kind of serious conversation with you; which is at this point futile.

So my opinion prevents you from having any serious conversation with me? That's poor.

I don't know what's with the personal discrediting you're trying to pull here, but I'd prefer it if you stopped. If you have any points against my points, just say it, but let's not make it personal, ok?

 

[Onasi]

I personally know many people with flagship Samsungs and iPhones who only ever browse Facebook and play 2D puzzle games on them. They are idiots in their buying choice.

Let’s not do the whole name calling thing, mmkay? You tend to do that in the ever-ubiquitous NVidia threads with pre-supposing that every NV customer is “sheep” and blinded by marketing. I know people who drive 911s and never go above speed limit. They can be a lot of things, but I would never call them “idiots” for the car they bought.
For what it’s worth, I have a (at this point somewhat old) 13 Mini. I use it for browsing, phone/video calls, photos and scans when needed and banking, taxi and delivery apps. Some other stuff too, but that’s minor. I suppose I am an idiot too, should have bought a 200 dollar Android phone, preferences be damned.

 

[bug]

What are these apps you write?

Toy stuff. My favorite being a simple beeper for incoming messages. You know, like a replacement for the old notification led.

 

[AusWolf]

Let’s not do the whole name calling thing, mmkay? You tend to do that in the ever-ubiquitous NVidia threads with pre-supposing that every NV customer is “sheep” and blinded by marketing. I know people who drive 911s and never go above speed limit. They can be a lot of things, but I would never call them “idiots” for the car they bought.
For what it’s worth, I have a (at this point somewhat old) 13 Mini. I use it for browsing, phone/video calls, photos and scans when needed and banking, taxi and delivery apps. Some other stuff too, but that’s minor. I suppose I am an idiot too, should have bought a 200 dollar Android phone, preferences be damned.

You said you prefer the UI. It's worth the price premium to you. That's fine. It's not worth it for me, but that's just me.

What I'm saying is that lot of people don't even know the difference, and don't even care, they just go "expensive = good".

 

[bug]

You said you prefer the UI. It's worth the price premium to you. That's fine. It's not worth it for me, but that's just me.

What I'm saying is that lot of people don't even know the difference, and don't even care, they just go "expensive = good".

It's not that. It's a psychological thing: the more you spend buying something, the less likely you are to admit you bought the wrong thing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice-supportive_bias).

Edit: Just to be clear, everybody's free to buy whatever they want. And sometimes the more expensive product can be the better choice (especially if compared to cheap thrash).

 

[leonavis]

You said you prefer the UI. It's worth the price premium to you. That's fine. It's not worth it for me, but that's just me.

What I'm saying is that lot of people don't even know the difference, and don't even care, they just go "expensive = good".

There were actually some people who built gaming PCs with Threadrippers because they didn't do the research...

There are people like that.

It's not that. It's a psychological thing: the more you spend buying something, the less likely you are to admit you bought the wrong thing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice-supportive_bias).

Yea, like sunken cost fallacy.

That's why it took me years to admit that smoking weed was actually quite bad for my psychological health. When you take years defending something it gets harder and harder to give up that line of thought.

 

[freeagent]

I like iOS, it works well for me. On the hardware side I like the screen, I like the camera, I like the storage capacity, I like how it feels when I hold it.. that is why I keep buying them.

A lot of my family runs Android, and a lot run iOS.. and we all still love each other, and we all get along.. for the most part lol.

What phone you have in your pocket has no impact on my life whatsoever..

 

[AusWolf]

There were actually some people who built gaming PCs with Threadrippers because they didn't do the research...

There are people like that.

There are A LOT OF people like that in the phone world. I'd say at least 8 out of 10 people owning an iPhone or S-series Samsung Galaxy don't need one.

 

[Vayra86]

If that bothers you, fair point. Personally, I consider it nit-picking.

Well... if you have to be productive on your phone because it is also used for work for example, these things certainly do matter. You want easy workflows. Also on a personal level... the ease of use is like a warm bath, honestly. Its the same consistency I like to find and hold on to in for example Windows. I run an LTSC build thats just frozen in time for that reason too.

You said you prefer the UI. It's worth the price premium to you. That's fine. It's not worth it for me, but that's just me.

What I'm saying is that lot of people don't even know the difference, and don't even care, they just go "expensive = good".

I dont know about that. There are expensive Android phones too. But the Apple ones have a cult following.. and frankly, what I am saying, as an ex-Android supporter is that they aint (entirely) wrong. Apple has cultivated something in software here that is quite like the OG Starcraft; the quality of the software and constant improvements, however little, alongside the overall stability of it all is just great.

 

[AusWolf]

Well... if you have to be productive on your phone because it is also used for work for example, these things certainly do matter. You want easy workflows.

I can't imagine what work one can do on a phone, but I believe you.

Like I said, I have nothing against people who actually need an iPhone or other flagship phone. I'm just saying that most people who buy one don't.

Also on a personal level... the ease of use is like a warm bath, honestly.

I find Android extremely easy to use. You have a list of apps, you have an app store, and you have a settings menu. What more does one need?

This is just my opinion, though.

Its the same consistency I like to find and hold on to in for example Windows. I run an LTSC build thats just frozen in time for that reason too.

I find Linux with a KDE or Cinnamon desktop (not to mention Gnome which is said to be even simpler, I just haven't tried it yet) easier to use than Windows. Windows is the textbook definition of Stockholm syndrome. You only use it because you're used to it, even though it's shit.

But again, that's my opinion.

I dont know about that. There are expensive Android phones too. But the Apple ones have a cult following.. and frankly, what I am saying, as an ex-Android supporter is that they aint (entirely) wrong. Apple has cultivated something in software here that is quite like the OG Starcraft; the quality of the software and constant improvements, however little, alongside the overall stability of it all is just great.

I was talking about all flagship phones, not just Apple.

It's easy to develop stable software when you're optimising for one set of hardware that also happens to be your own in-house tech. The negative side is lack of competition which reflects in price.

 

[Vayra86]

It's easy to develop stable software when you're optimising for one set of hardware that also happens to be your own in-house tech. The negative side is lack of competition which reflects in price.

Lack of competition? Apple made something that people simply wanted and is simply out of reach for the Android approach. Google then tried to shoehorn its own 'perfect phone' into that shithole of poorly supported devices by giving us a Nexus and a Pixel. They failed. Similarly, Microsoft tried to do an Apple but never managed to inspire enough developer momentum to get a reasonably filled app store, but they, too, had a capable OS to build upon. Nokia, with Symbian, similarly had a locked OS that tried what Apple succeeded at. But they all suffered from a lack of vision, an overarching idea of how everything must work. And how to market that vision, too.

If you ask me, Apple simply executed on a strategy and did it better than everyone else. Yes.. the device is better due to its software and therefore commands a premium. There is no way around that.

 

[leonavis]

not to mention Gnome which is said to be even simpler

It is simpler, yes. But there are also pretty bad update-paths. You have Gnome-extensions, so you can upgrade your DE via browser via easy clicks, but the extensions regularly break when Gnome gets updated, which is why the Arch Linux developers - very unusual behavior for them - delay Gnome-updates oftentimes for months.

It's an alright DE though. And yea, pretty simple to use. I personally prefer KDE modded to look similar to Gnome, though. ^^

But you know, that's a big difference between typical Mac or Windows users and typical Linux users. Plenty Linux users actually like being able to customize everything, even if that means that the OS gets harder to handle. While many Windows or Mac (and iPhone) users like to have everything ready to go and not having to configure or tweak anything. That's just something of a preference.

Android though is pretty much that as well. You don't have to tinker or configure anything really, it just works out of the box. And having worked with iOS I didn't feel like it was any better, not even really much different. Basically the same.

 

[AusWolf]

Lack of competition? Apple made something that people simply wanted and is simply out of reach for the Android approach. Google then tried to shoehorn its own 'perfect phone' into that shithole of poorly supported devices by giving us a Nexus and a Pixel. They failed. Similarly, Microsoft tried to do an Apple but never managed to inspire enough developer momentum to get a reasonably filled app store, but they, too, had a capable OS to build upon. Nokia, with Symbian, similarly had a locked OS that tried what Apple succeeded at.

If you want iOS, Apple is your only choice. This is what I meant. Windows phone was free to adopt by anyone, just like Android is. iOS isn't.

If you ask me, Apple simply executed on a strategy and did it better than everyone else. Yes.. the device is better due to its software and therefore commands a premium. There is no way around that.

That's your opinion. iOS works better for you, and that's fine. But it's not objectively better, neither is it worth a price premium for everyone.

 

[Vayra86]

Android though is pretty much that as well. You don't have to tinker or configure anything really, it just works out of the box. And having worked with iOS I didn't feel like it was any better, not even really much different. Basically the same.

Nah. Android isnt like that at all. The support on the OS per phone is simply different. Changes happen due to OS updates and they arent all improvements PLUS they can vary depending on the manufacturer and its android shell.

I'd you want iOS, Apple is your only choice. This is what I meant. Windows phone was free to adopt by anyone, just like Android is. iOS isn't.


That's your opinion. iOS works better for you, and that's fine. But it's not objectively better, neither is it worth a price premium for everyone.

Yes. Both true. Just trying to explain how this has come about. Apple didnt float on some bullshit story to get to their position. They actually had and still have something unique - unique enough to make people pay twice as much for the same hardware...

 

[leonavis]

Nah. Android isnt like that at all. The support on the OS per phone is simply different. Changes happen due to OS updates and they arent all improvements PLUS they can vary depending on the manufacturer and its android shell.

Well yea, it is advisable to get a phone with Vanilla Android.

Though I personally have found virtually no real differences between my old Honor, Asus and the Motorola I use now. Maybe Samsung is somewhat different, but I have also had to use and configure that for other people, and it was self-explanatory.

What features and improvements exactly are you referring to? It's only a smartphone, after all.

 

[AusWolf]

Yes. Both true. Just trying to explain how this has come about. Apple didnt float on some bullshit story to get to their position. They actually had and still have something unique - unique enough to make people pay twice as much for the same hardware...

I never doubted that, but it has nothing to do with what I said about most buyers not having a true need for that uniqueness, or for anything else that any other flagship phone offers.

 

[SalemTheKit]

This is also why we have twenty eight different cans of beans, containing the same beans.

I fully agree with the rest of your comment, however, I will say that the beans from each brand are different. Much like with canned tomatoes, brand really does make a difference even if the differences aren't really that important in the grand scheme of things. Rather than brands competing to make the best bean in each can, these days it's just finding the brands that aren't purposefully finding the limit of how much customers will tolerate for the 10 cents you save compared to the other brand.

Video related:

 

[bug]

Well... if you have to be productive on your phone because it is also used for work for example, these things certainly do matter. You want easy workflows. Also on a personal level... the ease of use is like a warm bath, honestly. Its the same consistency I like to find and hold on to in for example Windows. I run an LTSC build thats just frozen in time for that reason too.

One of my rules says: if it is to be used for work, it must be supplied by the employer. My personal purchases do not have to account for business use cases.

 

[AusWolf]

One of my rules says: if it is to be used for work, it must be supplied by the employer. My personal purchases do not have to account for business use cases.

This, a million percent!

 

[Dr. Dro]

Let’s not do the whole name calling thing, mmkay? You tend to do that in the ever-ubiquitous NVidia threads with pre-supposing that every NV customer is “sheep” and blinded by marketing. I know people who drive 911s and never go above speed limit. They can be a lot of things, but I would never call them “idiots” for the car they bought.
For what it’s worth, I have a (at this point somewhat old) 13 Mini. I use it for browsing, phone/video calls, photos and scans when needed and banking, taxi and delivery apps. Some other stuff too, but that’s minor. I suppose I am an idiot too, should have bought a 200 dollar Android phone, preferences be damned.

Your 13 mini will be getting updates by 2030... and you can take it into any Apple Store in the world and have it serviced, a battery replacement usually same-day in the Apple Store near me (drop the phone, watch a movie at the mall's cinema, retrieve phone), other parts take a couple of business days. That's just invaluable to me.

 

[Vayra86]

One of my rules says: if it is to be used for work, it must be supplied by the employer. My personal purchases do not have to account for business use cases.

Right. Where did I say I paid for it though and how is this a subject now? And why is being productive necessarily business related?

 

[AusWolf]

Right. Where did I say I paid for it though and how is this a subject now? And why is being productive necessarily business related?

Where else would you want to be productive than related to a business?

 

[azrael]

So here is something that is often done away with "its not possible, it cant be done" but I dont get it...

Lets take Microsoft OS, Windows, I can install Windows 10 on ANCIENT hardware, like a Core 2 Duo or even a Pentium 4, this is perfectly normal that you can do that.
I can also install Linux Unbuntu and IOS (virtual perhaps but still).

So what is up with phones and Android OS?
Why are all phones only supported for X amount of years, why are phone makers even involved? why can I just download a copy of the latest version of Android and install that on my phone?
Why are there no alternatives yet, like I know there is something like Linux on phones (heck Android is Linux derived) but its all apperenly a bit janky and out of date.

And I just dont understand why, phones are bascially small computers, heck MS now has "windows on arm" sooo can I just install windows 11 on any device that has arm based hardware?
Can I override a tablet with Android and install windows 11 on it if I wanted to?

and if not...why not? why is that world so dang different from the OS world we have known for 2 decades.

Haven't read all 5 pages of comments, but here's my take.

Apart from the urge to sell you new hardware ("greed and profit" as @Vayra86 put it), the main reason are drivers. Remember, that the ARM SoC in whichever flavour is just part of the equation. Most, if not all, (Android) mobile phones are made up of a different mix of components and you need specific drivers to address each of them. Many of those component manufacturers are very territorial about their drivers. I remember reading that Qualcomm is one of the worst offenders. Google has initiated several projects over time to mitigate this, but when push comes to shove there is no silver bullet. Because many manufacturers, for one reason or another, don't want to play ball, Google has started to migrate as much as is updatable to the play store.

In the end, though, what it all comes down to is "if you keep your old phone you don't buy a new one".

 

[Shihab]

There isn't much android/google can do to change this beyond what they have done, sadly. Yell at the driver vendors.

I disagree. Microsoft spent a fortune to make the PC driver situation the way it is today. Google could have also enforced standards and requirements that -at the very least- alleviate the issue. They obviously chose not to.
The obsolescence does benefit them as well. Changing the API is easy when you don't have to worry about stuff older than 2 years, or whatever attention span currently goes for standard at that ADHD-fest in Mount View.

I saw someone say they wouldn’t want to use Apple because they lock into their own ecosystem system.. like everyone else

I can make any app I want, that can run on both my bargain-bin Android and my parents' expensive ones, using any random PC with either Windows, linux or MacOS. I need nothing more than fire up my IDE (and set up some Android related crap, but hey, can't have everything in life), write the code, compile to an apk, transfer to the phone, install.

Doing the same to an iOS device means you'll need a Mac, and you'll need to sign up for some Apple account, and then you get the choice, either your own software will run on your own hardware as a trial, or you cough up the dough to receive the honour of being deemed worthy of running something on your device without idiotic restrictions.

(Disclaimer: I honestly don't know if anyone already ranted about this. Stopped scrolling past this post. )

 

[Vayra86]

Where else would you want to be productive than related to a business?

You never want to get shit done outside work? Okay