Inside the PSU!

[cdawall]

I'm all for caution, but holy crap, Bill makes it sound like we want to disassemble a nuke or something.

I guess the key point is we shouldn't ever advise anyone take one apart because you don't know how competent that person might be. If you are confident enough (in regards to electrical knowledge, not bravado!) and cautious enough it's not really a big deal to take apart a PSU safely.

If you have no or little electrical knowledge, just don't!

Yep I feel like he wears an antistatic bracelet a lot.

The caps that can kill you are called hold up capacitors and are required by atx spec to run the psu with a loss of power for 16ms at full load.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Want a cookie to go with your diatribe? Or just an extra hand to help wank you off

So you decide to stoop to puerile personal attacks? Way to ruin a good, mature, discussion.

Computer PSUs are standardized and adhere to standard specs.

As I noted but you apparently chose to ignore or are incapable of understanding, "color coding in computer power supplies has not always been standardized or required." Anyone who has kept up with the ATX Formfactor standards over the years would know this.

I'm all for caution, but holy crap, Bill makes it sound like we want to disassemble a nuke or something.

The problem is there are naïve stooges out there who think they understand electricity who haphazardly recommend others go sticking highly conductive probes into the heart of electronics! It happens more than some might think. Safety is something to not take likely. And then there are others who just don't understand that DC power supplies have a deadly side (the AC input) to them.

The caps that can kill you are called hold up capacitors and are required by atx spec to run the psu with a loss of power for 16ms at full load.

True but that's there secondary job. And the hold-up voltage is on the output side of the transformer windings. The deadly side is on the input side.

 

[cdawall]

True but that's there secondary job. And the hold-up voltage is on the output side of the transformer windings. The deadly side is on the input side.

No bill there isn't a dangerous capacitor on the input side the mains are too low of a voltage to overcome the resistance of the human body. The X cap in the filter winding is the only cap in the power supply that hold a charge longer than a couple of seconds. It is also not going to kill anyone.

This myth of death to us all in powersupply form perpetuates from CRT repairmen. Those had capacitor banks that would legitimately kill people.

By the time someone pulls a psu pcb from the case the caps will be fully discharged.

 

[m1dg3t]

Snip/

Boo hoo. The connectors on all PSU/MoBos are standardized. No matter what colour the damn wire is. Everything else is semantics, how is that mature conversation? I'd rather watch golf. Good day.

 

[stinger608]

No bill there isn't a dangerous capacitor on the input side the mains are too low of a voltage to overcome the resistance of the human body. The X cap in the filter winding is the only cap in the power supply that hold a charge longer than a couple of seconds. It is also not going to kill anyone.

This myth of death to us all in powersupply form perpetuates from CRT repairmen. Those had capacitor banks that would legitimately kill people.

By the time someone pulls a psu pcb from the case the caps will be fully discharged.

I was actually reading an article over at Overclock.net that states this exact argument: http://www.overclock.net/a/capacitor-safety-in-power-supplies

And, it really stands to reason.

zip tie it to the other one. wrap it first with electrical tape around it and the other one for grip for the zip tie to hold on to.

for the gap just use electrical tape(wrap it around a popsicle stick or something) like a shim between should work out fine

Actually, that might work pretty good.
I have some nonconductive 1/4" thick rubber sheets that would probably work pretty well between the two.

 

[Bill_Bright]

No bill there isn't a dangerous capacitor on the input side the mains are too low of a voltage to overcome the resistance of the human body.

Oh come on! If you put your paws on the input side of the PSU, it is the exact same thing as sticking two metal objects into a wall outlet then grabbing them with both hands. This is exactly why we don't want little kids sticking things in wall outlets.

@stinger608 - Good article. But I am not really concerned about the charge in the caps either - in terms of the user getting electrocuted. It is the AC coming into the supply from the wall outlet that can kill you. It is highly unlikely a PSU that is unplugged from the wall will kill you, unless you already have heart problems.

 

[cdawall]

I was actually reading an article over at Overclock.net that states this exact argument: http://www.overclock.net/a/capacitor-safety-in-power-supplies

And, it really stands to reason.




Actually, that might work pretty good.
I have some nonconductive 1/4" thick rubber sheets that would probably work pretty well between the two.

I was looking for that link lol read it years ago.

Oh come on! If you put your paws on the input side of the PSU, it is the exact same thing as sticking two metal objects into a wall outlet then grabbing them with both hands. This is exactly why we don't want little kids sticking things in wall outlets.

120@15A from a wall outlet isn't killing people unless you take a fork and stab it into your chest then put that in the outlet and lick a ground. Even household 230 isn't going to kill people...

 

[infrared]

- Good article. But I am not really concerned about the charge in the caps either - in terms of the user getting electrocuted. It is the AC coming into the supply from the wall outlet that can kill you. It is highly unlikely a PSU that is unplugged from the wall will kill you, unless you already have heart problems.

Nobody in their right mind would take apart a PSU that is still connected to the mains! wtf!

You've been on about caps all this time and now you've changed tack.

Edit: I don't mean the above to be offensive... You've bought up a few good points in various posts, but you also exaggerate and include a lot of outright BS, which discredits everything you've said. Also, you need to be able to say "oh yeah, fair dos" or something to that effect once someone accurately debunks something you said, instead of twisting the topic to try to save face, you'll get a lot more respect from people.

 

[stinger608]

@stinger608 - Good article. But I am not really concerned about the charge in the caps either - in terms of the user getting electrocuted. It is the AC coming into the supply from the wall outlet that can kill you. It is highly unlikely a PSU that is unplugged from the wall will kill you, unless you already have heart problems.

I realize that actually. I work with electricity up to 440 3 phase all the time. That really wasn't the reason for this discussion, although, it's good that you mention this for anyone reading that doesn't know any better.

The main reason for this discussion was how long to allow a power supply to sit prior to opening it up and removing the circuit board. I mainly wanted opinions regarding this and if anyone has done this type of work.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Nobody in their right mind would take apart a PSU that is still connected to the mains! wtf!

You just don't get it!

There are people out there who have no clue what they are doing who open up power supplies, turn them on then jam meter probes in there.

120@15A from a wall outlet isn't killing people... .Even household 230 isn't going to kill people...

OMG!!!!! Wow! Talk about being naïve!

Can I be killed by 110V?

The truth is over 90% of the deaths that result from electrocution happen in residential homes and you guessed it, the voltage involved was none other than 110 volts.

What if I stuck my finger in an electrical outlet?

According to the U.S. Consumer Product Safety commission, each year approximately 4,000 people find themselves in the emergency room seeking treatment for injuries caused by accidents involving electrical outlets. About a third to one-half of these patients are children who decided to stick some kind of metal object (like a paper clip or spoon handle) or their finger into the outlet. This number may seem high, but these people are actually the lucky ones. There are hundreds of folks that never make it to the emergency room.

 

[sneekypeet]

The topic, we are losing it! Back onto the topic and questions at hand as we all know Stinger is not silly enough to attempt this sort of a project without due diligence! Fair public warning to everyone!

 

[Steevo]

Get some two part epoxy, mix up and put a dab under it with a Popsicle stick, push down and let it set for a day before using it and don't worry about it. No need to touch anything that isn't plastic or already insulated.

 

[stinger608]

we all know Stinger is not silly enough to attempt this sort of a project without due diligence!

I don't know about all that Sneeky. You've got a lot of confidence in me brother.

Get some two part epoxy, mix up and put a dab under it with a Popsicle stick, push down and let it set for a day before using it and don't worry about it. No need to touch anything that isn't plastic or already insulated.

Now that is actually a great idea @Steevo I just happen to have some two part epoxy on hand!

 

[cdawall]

I don't feel like stinger will fall ill to licking the main caps and electrical plug while working on it.

 

[stinger608]

I don't feel like stinger will fall ill to licking the main caps and electrical plug while working on it.

Ah, ya never know man. They actually look pretty tasty.

 

[stinger608]

Naturally, I was testing all the caps and coils with my tester and of course, there is no voltage.

I believe there is enough of the plastic mounting bracket left that I can use it again to hold the coil in place. Straighten out some of the metal and this puppy should be good to go.

 

[silentbogo]

Naturally, I was testing all the caps and coils with my tester and of course, there is no voltage.

I believe there is enough of the plastic mounting bracket left that I can use it again to hold the coil in place. Straighten out some of the metal and this puppy should be good to go.

GLHF

 

[stinger608]

I actually found all of the plastic bracket pieces and was able to super glue them back together.

From what it looked like, the coil was simply epoxied to the bracket. So, that is what I have done with it.

Once I fixed the bracket I just epoxied the coil to the bracket. I'll know for sure in a couple of hours as the epoxy that I used has a setup time of 3 hours to fully cure.

In the mean time, I am straightening all of the metal to the power supply case.

 

[stinger608]

First, sorry for the double post.

Anyhow, I have this power supply powering up an ole DFI LanParty motherboard.

Take a look at this first image and see if the voltages seem about right?

And here is a couple of images showing the power supply and it running.

 

[eidairaman1]

with vdroop and the minimum the system is pulling, seems to be ok, monitor for loading and BSODs

 

[infrared]

I bet if you checked it with a multimeter you'd find those voltages aren't totally accurate

 

[EarthDog]

Like infra said... get a MM on those parts to confirm readings.

 

[stinger608]

monitor for loading and BSODs

I didn't have a hard drive installed or anything other than 1 gig of ram and an 8800GT video card.

I was just more testing to ensure that the power supply actually worked as it should.

Is there any software that allows a person to see what a power supply is doing in a full system?

I have a couple of systems that I could install it in to get better tests while getting under load and what not, if there is such a software.

 

[silentbogo]

Voltages are kind of low for a PSU without load.
Either your motherboard shows skewed values, or something ain't right.
Double check your idle voltages before you do any high-load testing.

In order to eliminate the first possibility, use a multimeter, as already pointed out by @infrared and @EarthDog.
Just do the force start on a PSU (short green to ground), and check readings on 12V, 5V, 3.3V and 5VSB.

 

[R-T-B]

Wait a second, that's my PSU I sold you! It's a sexy EVGA Titanium! Those don't grow on trees you know?

You wrecked it! You... PSU abuser.... I think I need to send you to PSU jail.

Seriously... where did this happen in the mail? I didn't pack it too poorly, did I? This was you sending it after I sent it?