Intel Core i5-10400F

[Bee9]

If your countries prices are way out of whack compared to US prices, I can about guarantee it has nothing to do with the manufacturer targeting your country for price gouging. It has to do with these variable 'sales taxes' which are really targeted tarriffs. This then becomes more of a political issue than anything to do with price gouging from Intel or AMD.

I agree it's not the manufacturer fault. However, it affects value (price/performance) of a product in certain region. This ultimately will upset some people in the US where the price and availability is different than the rest of the world. I'm trying to make sense of many comments in this forum regarding value. So in the future may be we can have an extra section of availability and pricing on the product reviews and take that into consideration when calculate the recommendation for each region? Just throwing constructive ideas out.

 

[RandallFlagg]

I agree it's not the manufacturer fault. However, it affects value (price/performance) of a product in certain region. This ultimately will upset some people in the US where the price and availability is different than the rest of the world. I'm trying to make sense of many comments in this forum regarding value. So in the future may be we can have an extra section of availability and pricing on the product reviews and take that into consideration when calculate the recommendation for each region? Just throwing constructive ideas out.

It may be too much to ask. It's not a simple formulae unfortunately. You can't just do currency conversion, nor can you add a fixed "everything imported pays this". In fact, if you are in one of these bizarre taxing scheme zones it is entirely possible that the exact same component / chip will cost one thing if made at one plant / country and something entirely different if made in another plant / country. An adjustment in the supply chain could result in wildly different costs, which in turn can affect demand and thus availability. I think it is up to each individual person to check pricing and come to their own conclusions, else look at a site dedicated to your countries specific situation.

In an ideal world every country would just use one import tax rate for everything and be done with it. Will never happen, the field would be too level.

 

[Tatty_Two]

Interesting... I heard some people bashing the "budget" $150 Z490 boards... Hardware Unboxed is one of the names. I know Steve is a decent guy and he brought up solid concern.
I've seen something like 10+1 or lower than that. So that's may be the extreme budget boards you mentioned. Interesting to see how those compare to the lower tier chipset in the 150-200 price range.

The cheapest Z490 board I can find in the UK currently is the Asrock Phantom gaming 4, it comes even with the Realtek ALC 1200 codec, it only has one M2 NVME slot and very low profile cooling but has 10 phases, I am not sure I would put an i9 in there but it should be good for anything i5 and possibly i7..... not sure on that though ...…….

ASRock Z490 Phantom Gaming 4 ATX Motherboard

Buy from Scan - ASRock Z490 Phantom Gaming 4, Intel Z490, S 1200, DDR4, SATA3, M.2, CrossFire, GbE, USB 3.2 Gen2, ATX

www.scan.co.uk

Edit: In terms of regional price considerations..... no, just too many variables, the universal pricing for both AMD and Intel are US$ so whilst as you have seen there are large disparities in pricing because of mainly taxes, the $$$ pricing is still relevant, it's fair to expect that if CPU A is released and is $50 more expensive than Competitor CPU B then that will translate to a more expensive CPU in any market.

 

[AddSub]

Down-costed (yet fully capable) Z490 $150 motherboards are Satan and they make no sense at all, BUT "Gamer-Cool" B550 boards like B550 Aorus Master that are almost $300 are completely reasonable, if not a completely sophisticated and even a "smart choice". The mental gymnastics the fanboys do....

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[Bee9]

The cheapest Z490 board I can find in the UK currently is the Asrock Phantom gaming 4, it comes even with the Realtek ALC 1200 codec, it only has one M2 NVME slot and very low profile cooling but has 10 phases, I am not sure I would put an i9 in there but it should be good for anything i5 and possibly i7..... not sure on that though ...…….

ASRock Z490 Phantom Gaming 4 ATX Motherboard

Buy from Scan - ASRock Z490 Phantom Gaming 4, Intel Z490, S 1200, DDR4, SATA3, M.2, CrossFire, GbE, USB 3.2 Gen2, ATX

www.scan.co.uk

Edit: In terms of regional price considerations..... no, just too many variables, the universal pricing for both AMD and Intel are US$ so whilst as you have seen there are large disparities in pricing because of mainly taxes, the $$$ pricing is still relevant, it's fair to expect that if CPU A is released and is $50 more expensive than Competitor CPU B then that will translate to a more expensive CPU in any market.

Oh that Vomit-Inducing VRM cooling... It can do the i5 just fine, but I will not future proof myself with that board.


Price and wage is sticky in economic so it's a bit tricky. Price in the long run will be at equilibrium but in the short run its another story.
For example: the price of CPU A released at launch for $150 but due to supply shortages, CPU A runs at $180, but reviewers only use release price at $150 so it's considered misleading at that moment.
I hope this is not too far from the topic at hand, I'm sorry if it's too off topic.

 

[JRMBelgium]

1% lows in game benchmarks please...

 

[InVasMani]

"With Comet Lake, and Z490 specifically, Intel marketing has made some noise about the new ability to independently adjust BCLK from PCIe clock. In reality, this doesn't do anything for non-K processors because all locked CPUs will measure the BCLK they are running at and simply refuse booting if BCLK is 103 MHz or higher."

I wonder if anyone will be able to hard mod a bypass to this circuit bent type of overclocking workarounds to the PLL chip. Possibly even a bios mod hack like the reporting the BCLK to be like 25%-50 lower than normal system in fact it isn't.

 

[RandallFlagg]

There's a whole host of $150-$180 Z490 boards available. Yes below image is Microcenter, but they are not heavily discounting these yet.

The next tier jumps up to ~$200 ramping up to mid $200 range very quickly. Big differentiator there is WiFi included on the board in the next tier up though. The really expensive ones start including WiFi 6 and 2.5Gbit ethernet.

Honestly none of these are cheap junk as far as I can tell, unlike many of the 450 and 550 boards (as well as the intel H3XX and B3XX boards). The cheapest one here has a 10 phase VRM, thunderbolt header, along with 2x USB 3.2 Gen2 (10 Gbit) ports and can support DDR4-4600. These aren't overclocking beasts but they are clearly feature rich and capable of some mild tinkering.

They should all be able to do at least some overclocking of the RAM (DDR4-3600ish) . We're already seeing that overclocking RAM has some serious boosts in performance on Intel, computerbase.de showed in some cases around 25-35%. GN followed up later and showed the same thing on the 10600K. It should be understood now that overclocking RAM generally has more impact than overclocking CPU.

All that said I think the 10400 is a little bit 'meh', as it is the low end midrange part this is not suprising. I'm interested to see the 10500 and 10600 (esp 10600F) come out, as those should be directly in competition with the 3600X and soundly beat it in many situations (think another 5-10% over the 10400). I'm guessing another month or so and we'll see.

And yes, I'd also like to see something about Ryzen 3, but after watching these markets for 30 years I'm seeing a lot of anecdotal indicators that something's wrong with the schedule there. These companies don't usually intro a gaggle of new parts on last gen process/architecture (as AMD has) right before releasing the next gen. My guess / prediction here is that Ryzen 3 talk is to keep people waiting and bait them into buying the platform, and any 2020 launch will be mostly paper with Ryzen 3 not available widely until late Q1 2021.

 

[AddSub]

There's a whole host of $150-$180 Z490 boards available. Yes below image is Microcenter, but they are not heavily discounting these yet.

The next tier jumps up to ~$200 ramping up to mid $200 range very quickly. Big differentiator there is WiFi included on the board in the next tier up though. The really expensive ones start including WiFi 6 and 2.5Gbit ethernet.

Honestly none of these are cheap junk as far as I can tell, unlike many of the 450 and 550 boards (as well as the intel H3XX and B3XX boards). The cheapest one here has a 10 phase VRM, thunderbolt header, along with 2x USB 3.2 Gen2 (10 Gbit) ports and can support DDR4-4600. These aren't overclocking beasts but they are clearly feature rich and capable of some mild tinkering.

They should all be able to do at least some overclocking of the RAM (DDR4-3600ish) . We're already seeing that overclocking RAM has some serious boosts in performance on Intel, computerbase.de showed in some cases around 25-35%. GN followed up later and showed the same thing on the 10600K. It should be understood now that overclocking RAM generally has more impact than overclocking CPU.

All that said I think the 10400 is a little bit 'meh', as it is the low end midrange part this is not suprising. I'm interested to see the 10500 and 10600 (esp 10600F) come out, as those should be directly in competition with the 3600X and soundly beat it in many situations (think another 5-10% over the 10400). I'm guessing another month or so and we'll see.

And yes, I'd also like to see something about Ryzen 3, but after watching these markets for 30 years I'm seeing a lot of anecdotal indicators that something's wrong with the schedule there. These companies don't usually intro a gaggle of new parts on last gen process/architecture (as AMD has) right before releasing the next gen. My guess / prediction here is that Ryzen 3 talk is to keep people waiting and bait them into buying the platform, and any 2020 launch will be mostly paper with Ryzen 3 not available widely until late Q1 2021.

View attachment 157239

All those VRM's look pretty decent if not robust even. Never understood the high end entry level chipset boards. I mean I have a MSI 785G based motherboard that I got for my media center (at MicroCenter in fact), back in 2010, and this thing is def over-done on the VRM's and general feature-set presentation, which is hilarious considering it's a lowly 785G chipset. That said, there is one major difference compared to "over-done" modern entry level boards today, that board cost me $59.99 in 2010. Somehow, in 2020 buying entry level chipset boards (B450/B550/Hxxx) with fancied up VRMs, heatsinks, and better than horrible onboard audio, will set you back what a top end X58 motherboard did back in 2010, a solid $180+ to even $250+ (B550 Aorus Master I'm looking at you).

I refuse to believe people promoting these are not $2 per hour marketing drones plants by the "bigs". Maybe young folk without long term perspective, or just fanboys fanboyin' maybe? C'mon, almost $300 for a B550?

A Z490 board today in the $150 range is a steal.


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[Bee9]

And yes, I'd also like to see something about Ryzen 3, but after watching these markets for 30 years I'm seeing a lot of anecdotal indicators that something's wrong with the schedule there. These companies don't usually intro a gaggle of new parts on last gen process/architecture (as AMD has) right before releasing the next gen. My guess / prediction here is that Ryzen 3 talk is to keep people waiting and bait them into buying the platform, and any 2020 launch will be mostly paper with Ryzen 3 not available widely until late Q1 2021.

Oh you don’t have to guess. It is going to be delayed because of geopolitical issues and production issues in the fab. I work in the logistic of the bare waffles, and it has been really hectic.

 

[$ReaPeR$]

This CPU is crap compared to the competition from even it's siblings. Even if someone would buy this as a placeholder, why this and not the cheeper i3?! It doesn't make sense for the 99% of the market that this CPU fits in. This CPU makes sense only for oems like Dell and hp. Steve from GN pointed in excruciating detail why this CPU is a crappy buy, and i trust him much more than the "experts" in this comment section.

 

[Bee9]

This CPU is crap compared to the competition from even it's siblings. Even if someone would buy this as a placeholder, why this and not the cheeper i3?! It doesn't make sense for the 99% of the market that this CPU fits in. This CPU makes sense only for oems like Dell and hp. Steve from GN pointed in excruciating detail why this CPU is a crappy buy, and i trust him much more than the "experts" in this comment section.

Every product launch means something. Even though it is not enough to win over AMD, it means Intel got something to stop AMD from gaining market share.
crowding out information and makes it harder for consumers to choose competitors product. Intel has the power to do that.
I guess Dell can get those for cheap and strap in their lower end corp office computer and make $ based on corp support package.

 

[tajoh111]

The cheapest Z490 board I can find in the UK currently is the Asrock Phantom gaming 4, it comes even with the Realtek ALC 1200 codec, it only has one M2 NVME slot and very low profile cooling but has 10 phases, I am not sure I would put an i9 in there but it should be good for anything i5 and possibly i7..... not sure on that though ...…….

ASRock Z490 Phantom Gaming 4 ATX Motherboard

Buy from Scan - ASRock Z490 Phantom Gaming 4, Intel Z490, S 1200, DDR4, SATA3, M.2, CrossFire, GbE, USB 3.2 Gen2, ATX

www.scan.co.uk

Edit: In terms of regional price considerations..... no, just too many variables, the universal pricing for both AMD and Intel are US$ so whilst as you have seen there are large disparities in pricing because of mainly taxes, the $$$ pricing is still relevant, it's fair to expect that if CPU A is released and is $50 more expensive than Competitor CPU B then that will translate to a more expensive CPU in any market.

Look closer. It actually has 2 m2 slots.

Do you know the AMD equivalent of this motherboard?

The AMD equivalent of this board is the x570 gaming 4 and it is the same price.

I know that your leaning back toward Intel slightly because of the misinformation of Intel being all overpriced boards and low end z490 being junk. But if we are calling boards with 10 phase power and smaller vrm coolers junk, what do we call the 80 dollar b450 motherboards?

ASRock B450M-HDV R4.0 AM4 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Newegg.com

Buy ASRock B450M-HDV R4.0 AM4 AMD Promontory B450 SATA 6Gb/s Micro ATX AMD Motherboard with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!

www.newegg.com

ASUS PRIME B450M-A/CSM AM4 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Newegg.com

Buy ASUS Prime B450M-A/CSM AM4 AMD B450 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.1 HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!

www.newegg.com

GIGABYTE B450M Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Newegg.com

Buy GIGABYTE B450M DS3H AM4 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!

www.newegg.com

The ones which completely lack VRM cooling, only have one m2 slot, lack USB C and are the 80 dollar price tag everyone loves to boast about for b450 motherboards.

What I am seeing on forums everywhere is an over correction now. Where people overstate the advantages for AMD and try as hard as they can to minimize any advantage Intel or Nvidia may have.

E.g when wizzard mentions turing videocards have ray tracing as a pro for rtx cards and not having ray tracing on AMD cards and none rtx cards, AMD fans throw a huge fit.

Another examples is when we above which would make some people hypocrites, is when people say the 5500xt is being held back by reviewers using a none pcie 4 motherboard and they should be retested with a pcie 4 motherboard. I find this the worst because than this motherboard example because cheap z490 motherboards will have the same performance as this review and will be the most common configuration right now.

On the other hand, not too many people are going to mix a brand new x570 platform + ryzen 2 with a 5500xt. People want the 1 percent and best case scenario to be the case shown.

Same with power consumption. People are screeching about how the new intel parts use too much power, but where was all this complaining with Vega 64. Oh yeah, we get this minimized because everyone loves to mention undervolting(missing Nvidia cards can be undervolted), power consumption doesn't matter when it comes to gaming, the noise AMD cards can't be heard when I wear headphones. The worst suggestion and most dishonest suggestion I have found is these fans suggesting AMD cards should be undervolted in all reviews and only AMD cards. This would introduce extreme variance in reviews, add stability problems and produce a tonne of work for reviewers. Another act of favoritism AMD fans expect is retest using AMD drivers launched the day of launch or after and not the launch drivers given to reviewers. This is disrespectful for reviewers. Generally the message I get is unless AMD gets preferential treatment over the competition in reviews(undervolt, use fastest memory, use newest drivers, have extra AMD titles for gaming, mention free game bundle) they are biased...and it is already showing with accusations in this thread.

 

[Tatty_Two]

Look closer. It actually has 2 m2 slots.

Do you know the AMD equivalent of this motherboard?

The AMD equivalent of this board is the x570 gaming 4 and it is the same price.

I know that your leaning back toward Intel slightly because of the misinformation of Intel being all overpriced boards and low end z490 being junk. But if we are calling boards with 10 phase power and smaller vrm coolers junk, what do we call the 80 dollar b450 motherboards?

ASRock B450M-HDV R4.0 AM4 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Newegg.com

Buy ASRock B450M-HDV R4.0 AM4 AMD Promontory B450 SATA 6Gb/s Micro ATX AMD Motherboard with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!

www.newegg.com

ASUS PRIME B450M-A/CSM AM4 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Newegg.com

Buy ASUS Prime B450M-A/CSM AM4 AMD B450 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.1 HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!

www.newegg.com

GIGABYTE B450M Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Newegg.com

Buy GIGABYTE B450M DS3H AM4 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!

www.newegg.com

The ones which completely lack VRM cooling, only have one m2 slot, lack USB C and are the 80 dollar price tag everyone loves to boast about for b450 motherboards.

What I am seeing on forums everywhere is an over correction now. Where people overstate the advantages for AMD and try as hard as they can to minimize any advantage Intel or Nvidia may have.

E.g when wizzard mentions turing videocards have ray tracing as a pro for rtx cards and not having ray tracing on AMD cards and none rtx cards, AMD fans throw a huge fit.

Another examples is when we above which would make some people hypocrites, is when people say the 5500xt is being held back by reviewers using a none pcie 4 motherboard and they should be retested with a pcie 4 motherboard. I find this the worst because than this motherboard example because cheap z490 motherboards will have the same performance as this review and will be the most common configuration right now.

On the other hand, not too many people are going to mix a brand new x570 platform + ryzen 2 with a 5500xt. People want the 1 percent and best case scenario to be the case shown.

Same with power consumption. People are screeching about how the new intel parts use too much power, but where was all this complaining with Vega 64. Oh yeah, we get this minimized because everyone loves to mention undervolting(missing Nvidia cards can be undervolted), power consumption doesn't matter when it comes to gaming, the noise AMD cards can't be heard when I wear headphones. The worst suggestion and most dishonest suggestion I have found is these fans suggesting AMD cards should be undervolted in all reviews and only AMD cards. This would introduce extreme variance in reviews, add stability problems and produce a tonne of work for reviewers. Another act of favoritism AMD fans expect is retest using AMD drivers launched the day of launch or after and not the launch drivers given to reviewers. This is disrespectful for reviewers. Generally the message I get is unless AMD gets preferential treatment over the competition in reviews(undervolt, use fastest memory, use newest drivers, have extra AMD titles for gaming, mention free game bundle) they are biased...and it is already showing with accusations in this thread.

Leaning back? The last time I had an AMD CPU was 2007. I have already snagged a good deal on three 10600K's and three 10400f's. You kind of missed the context of my post you quoted completely, the member I quoted indicated that they were a little concerned about the more budget level boards power delivery, I was showing him that the cheapest Z490 board currently available in the UK has decent power delivery, so who exactly is calling budget boards junk?

 

[W1zzard]

Generally the message I get is unless AMD gets preferential treatment over the competition in reviews(undervolt, use fastest memory, use newest drivers, have extra AMD titles for gaming, mention free game bundle) they are biased...and it is already showing with accusations in this thread.

publishing "AMD good, [Intel/NVIDIA] bad" stories = more clicks, too, btw

 

[RandallFlagg]

publishing "AMD good, [Intel/NVIDIA] bad" stories = more clicks, too, btw

Lol! You gotta love groupthink.

i have to say I really liked the CPU reviews here. There are some benchmarks for applications I actually use that have been very helpful. Specifically, vmware, photoshop, and Excel along with the various browser benches. I find the encoding / video editing that is so common to be fairly useless info as the last time I did any of that has to be > 1 year ago, it’s an exceedingly rare event for me to edit video and I’ll never use an expensive highly optimized tool for that.

How about adding some kind of MS Access or SQL server benchmark?

 

[W1zzard]

How about adding some kind of MS Access or SQL server benchmark?

People still use MS Access? For SQL Server I think you can look at the MySQL data, relative differences should be similar

 

[tajoh111]

Leaning back? The last time I had an AMD CPU was 2007. I have already snagged a good deal on three 10600K's and three 10400f's. You kind of missed the context of my post you quoted completely, the member I quoted indicated that they were a little concerned about the more budget level boards power delivery, I was showing him that the cheapest Z490 boards have decent power delivery, so who exactly is calling budget boards junk?

I was actually agreeing with you and I actually wanted to state, the MB in your post actually had two m2 slots. Something basic b450 motherboards don't generally get. I agree with you that that people should not be concerned about power delivery for anything besides the perhaps the i9 processors.

My original goal was to show how fully featured even the cheapest z490 boards are and they are hardly junk vs the $80 dollar b450 motherboards everyone find acceptable. If people call these boards junk, what are these 80 dollar MB people keep on recommending?

What I was stating with the rest of my post leans on to this bias or distortion of reality that gets carried without anyone correcting it.

Review shows 10400 looks competitive against 3600 processor.

AMD fan distortion.. its only competitive, because it is using 3200 ram, is paired with 300+ motherboard and most people buying this processor will pair it with a cheap motherboard.

Minicorrection 1..You can only pair this with a z490 motherboard right now.

Additional correction.. Some Z490 motherboards are relatively affordable and are priced in line with processor.

Counter distortion from an AMD fan.... These z490 boards are junk and have questionable power delivery..

Correction.. these low priced z490 motherboards have the same power delivery as high end b450 and generally in line with x570 platform. And it is the low end b450 that are junk because they have basic VRM's and feature sets(this point happens because they got a bit too greedy).

AMD fan with nothing to fall back on. Look at these benchmarks at other places and forget that we lost the argument. Wizzard is biased. What I find is this attitude is spreading, albeit diluted to others.

What I find now is because there isn't much culture when it comes to tech hardware, tribalism is very prominent way generally pro AMD attitude happens. They adopt whatever attitude is on forums, videos because there isn't that much identity when it comes to hardware. What you will generally see is more people unconsciously reframe things positively for AMD. E.g bad driver performance at launch is now just wait for fine wine. Nvidia prices are too high(which is true)...AMD prices videocards with similar prices--> AMD cannot help it.

 

[Bee9]

People still use MS Access? For SQL Server I think you can look at the MySQL data, relative differences should be similar

WTF is MS Access? I don't know it, must be a ghost or sumthing like that?

Correction.. these low priced z490 motherboards have the same power delivery as high end b450 and generally in line with x570 platform

I can't wait to see the reviews of budget boards to see how much power they can handle especially when you slap a core i9 in there. When I see the vomit-inducing heatsink from the Asrock board, I know it will be good for i5 or i7 but not for the high end i9. Don't misunderstand my intention, I'm as neutral as possible when it comes to brands. Just need data to see how well they perform. Looks good doesn't mean it will perform well.

 

[RandallFlagg]

WTF is MS Access? I don't know it, must be a ghost or sumthing like that?

Ahhh, well lets do some numbers.

MS Office is used by ~ 1 Billion worldwide. 5% of Office users use Access. That's 50 Million MS Access users.

To put this into perspective, it's estimated that the total number of XBox One consoles sold up through end of Q2 2019 was 46.9 Million. Obviously, many of these are not in use (some break, get replaced, I myself have 2 and one is on the shelf),

In other words, there are significantly more MS Access users than there are XBox owners. 50M is also significantly more than the total number of software engineers in the world.

It's a point of fact that MS Access is the single most used database on the planet. It's not sexy or cutting edge no, but neither is a fork, and most people use forks.

People still use MS Access? For SQL Server I think you can look at the MySQL data, relative differences should be similar

Good point on the MySQL. MS Access is much maligned, but in point of fact it is the single most used database on the planet - by a wide margin. There are more Access users than all the Xbox One consoles made since inception.

There are also things like SQL Server Compact / SQL Express which are used not just in a standalone setup like a DBA would deploy, but is often deployed by commercial applications and used in the background unbeknownst to the user. MySQL may emulate SQL Express pretty well, but unlikely it emulates SQL Compact since it is not a full blow DB engine but rather an API to access DB files (link). I've seen this used extensively in multiple specialty markets, to hold configuration and logging / history information when a full blow relational database is overkill.

This stuff is ubiquitous, and pretty important really. There's a fair chance you have these things installed and don't know it.

 

[Bee9]

Ahhh, well lets do some numbers.

MS Office is used by ~ 1 Billion worldwide. 5% of Office users use Access. That's 50 Million MS Access users.

To put this into perspective, it's estimated that the total number of XBox One consoles sold up through end of Q2 2019 was 46.9 Million. Obviously, many of these are not in use (some break, get replaced, I myself have 2 and one is on the shelf),

In other words, there are significantly more MS Access users than there are XBox owners. 50M is also significantly more than the total number of software engineers in the world.

It's a point of fact that MS Access is the single most used database on the planet. It's not sexy or cutting edge no, but neither is a fork, and most people use forks.

I don't know man, you brought up things that I'm not very familiar with :gaming console.
I deal with regulated data and require user-based security. To my eyes, it's almost impossible to manage large database with MS Access and painful to do data logging at large scale. Microsoft SQL server, oracle, MySQL, PostgrSQL, MongoDB, IBM Db2 exist for a reason.
In my experience, businesses are usually dealing with more than 2 types of database software. They may have access database but it should be at very small scope.
I always throw out jokes at Access as a ghost or Zombie because it never dies but never serve a higher purpose.

EDIT: anyway, we should stop talking about access and get back to the 10400F. How multi threaded is Access nowadays?

 

[RandallFlagg]

I don't know man, you brought up things that I'm not very familiar with :gaming console.
I deal with regulated data and require user-based security. To my eyes, it's almost impossible to manage large database with MS Access and painful to do data logging at large scale. Microsoft SQL server, oracle, MySQL, PostgrSQL, MongoDB, IBM Db2 exist for a reason.
In my experience, businesses are usually dealing with more than 2 types of database software. They may have access database but it should be at very small scope.
I always throw out jokes at Access as a ghost or Zombie because it never dies but never serve a higher purpose.

EDIT: anyway, we should stop talking about access and get back to the 10400F. How multi threaded is Access nowadays?

Well, I'm a developer and I don't use it. But the users do. There are tons of these databases out there, and the users outnumber us developers by quite a margin ya know.

Don't believe it, just go to monster or any other job search engine, and search for "MS Access". It's not a skill for most developers, but there are a lot of business positions that use it. LOTS. Also VBS, we're talking about 'power users' who essentially write applications within MS Office.

Access allows as many as 10 people to access the DB at one time. It's best when only 2 or 3 hit it a once though, beyond that is typically when they start calling IT for help, and then people like me get involved.

 

[InVasMani]

E.g when wizzard mentions turing videocards have ray tracing as a pro for rtx cards and not having ray tracing on AMD cards and none rtx cards, AMD fans throw a huge fit.

RTRT at this stage is still a joke. I know just based on path ray tracing with Blender and cycles that RTRT is still quite a ways from being suitable. Notice that Star Wars demo's that Nvidia showcased RTRT with we haven't seen that level of it arrive to gamer's yet on a 2080Ti not even the 2080Ti Super. They showed a nice cherry picked scenario and I forget the specs on that system I'm pretty certain they were run in SLI to make matters worse and possibly even quad SLI. Sure the video was fairly impressive, but wake me up when that's what a single card runs it like with actual games and not something silly tiny little tech demo. When it can do that and it's affordable enough then we call label it a feature until then it's still largely just in the realm of a marketing gimmick.

 

[Mussels]

And Ryzens can't OC for shit. What's your point?

You clearly have no clue what you are talking about. Non X chips are able to OC, it's only the X chips that are near their limit.

Actually something i hadn't put together coherently in my head yet, and a big difference in end-user viewpoint:
Intel needs high end hardware to OC, ryzen needs low end. This is why Intel has that status as the 'best' only the rich can afford to have, while AMD has that 'poor' 'budget' stigma attached.

AMD really did max out their chips quite well, for the auto boost settings on the high end chips.

 

[Gmr_Chick]

RTRT at this stage is still a joke. I know just based on path ray tracing with Blender and cycles that RTRT is still quite a ways from being suitable. Notice that Star Wars demo's that Nvidia showcased RTRT with we haven't seen that level of it arrive to gamer's yet on a 2080Ti not even the 2080Ti Super. They showed a nice cherry picked scenario and I forget the specs on that system I'm pretty certain they were run in SLI to make matters worse and possibly even quad SLI. Sure the video was fairly impressive, but wake me up when that's what a single card runs it like with actual games and not something silly tiny little tech demo. When it can do that and it's affordable enough then we call label it a feature until then it's still largely just in the realm of a marketing gimmick.

Agreed. Plus, I refuse to believe they used a 2080Ti -- or even dual, triple or quad Ti's -- for that tech demo. It's more likely they used a Titan RTX or two, or three, to make that tech demo.