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Intel Core i5-12400F

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That picture basically disproves what you were arguing: if it makes sense to disable 4 E core on i5, why won't it make sense to disable 4 cores on an i7?
I don't expect we'll an all P cores i7 either. But not for the reasons you gave ;)
It doesn't make sense because that's not how Intel wants to segment their products. End of story.

From Tomshardware: '
MSI recently confirmed via a livestream that Intel uses two different dies for the Alder Lake series: One die has eight P-cores and eight E-cores (8P+8E), and another has just six P-cores (6+0). Obviously, the latter die is much smaller and thus more cost-effective, therefore making far more sense for use in the non-hybrid Alder Lake chips with six or fewer cores.

However, leaked testing indicates that the Core i5-12400 chips vary on a chip-to-chip basis and can come with either die type. That means C0 stepping chips like ours actually have a total of eight P-cores and eight E-cores, but Intel disables the extra cores to trim it down to a 6+0 design. Naturally, that helps the company sell larger dies that encounter defects during manufacturing. It could also help improve supply and manufacturing efficiency when there aren't enough 'perfect' defect-free 6+0 dies available.

The physical difference between the dies — the 8P+8E design's ring bus extends to cover the disabled E-cores and P-Cores — implies that the H0-stepping 6+0 dies will have lower core-to-core latencies. That could theoretically lead to slightly faster performance under certain conditions. Additionally, anecdotal evidence also suggests that the H0 chips require less power. We're working to source an H0 chip for comparison and will follow up as necessary. '
Thanks for that. It's sadly so rare on the Internet that you ask someone for a source of data and they actually provide it, normally you just get "Google it yourself". Props to you!

In cpu-z my 12400F has H0 stepping.
How much L3?

On skylake, comet lake etc it was usual that you need the top model to achieve highest ram oc. Typically you could do 4600+ on a 10900K, but a 10400F might not do more than 4000 not matter what SA volt you pulled. It seems binning is both done on IMC aswell atleast for prior gens. I've seen several do 4000+ gear 1 on 12900K, but very few can do 4000+ on 12600K, and for the locked oarts 3400-3800 seems usual, but we generally pair them with cheaper MBs which can contribute.
Binning also doesn't make sense because that suggests that a perfectly good 1x900 could be bumped down to a 1x400 simply by virtue of having a poor IMC, which would be a massive waste of silicon. I think it's far more likely that Intel adds some extra circuitry, maybe just some extra caps, on the higher-end models that allow them to handle higher memory clocks. Hell, it could even be something as simple as the BIOS applying different settings for different SKUs (this is somewhat in the realm of conspiracy theory but sadly not something I'd put past Intel).

Intel flipflop on core counts in each stack every generation or two, so while you can be confident they may follow their recent history you cannot be certain of it continuing
Look how many years we had dual core quad and hex core i7's (laptop) on the market at the same time as four, six, eight and ten core i7's in desktops

Look at the 10900k to 11900K, suddenly dropping two cores from the top i7 - and these were both compatible with the same mobos.
You're 100% correct, I completely forgot that the i9 and i7 core counts dropped by 2 from 10th to 11th gen.
 
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It doesn't make sense because that's not how Intel wants to segment their products. End of story.


Thanks for that. It's sadly so rare on the Internet that you ask someone for a source of data and they actually provide it, normally you just get "Google it yourself". Props to you!


How much L3?


Binning also doesn't make sense because that suggests that a perfectly good 1x900 could be bumped down to a 1x400 simply by virtue of having a poor IMC, which would be a massive waste of silicon. I think it's far more likely that Intel adds some extra circuitry, maybe just some extra caps, on the higher-end models that allow them to handle higher memory clocks. Hell, it could even be something as simple as the BIOS applying different settings for different SKUs (this is somewhat in the realm of conspiracy theory but sadly not something I'd put past Intel).


You're 100% correct, I completely forgot that the i9 and i7 core counts dropped by 2 from 10th to 11th gen.
Yeah, might not be binning itself, but other factors. L3 reads as 18mb in bios. I wonder if the C0-version has 20mb?
 
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I wonder if the C0-version has 20mb?
That's exactly what I'm interested in. It's a shame that no reviewers bother to include CPU-Z screenshots in their reviews which could answer this, but IDK if CPU-Z would actually be able to tell you the real cache size or if it just has a hard-coded "i5-12400 = 18MB cache" entry.
 

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It's a shame that no reviewers bother to include CPU-Z screenshots in their reviews
You mean this picture? Like on the OC page of each of my CPU reviews?
 
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You mean this picture? Like on the OC page of each of my CPU reviews?
Interesting. You have the C0 full alder lake die with disabled e-cores and 2 less p-cores, I have the H0 smaller die which max support 6 p-cores. L3 is reported as 18mb so it looks like disabling e-cores removes the extra cache they hold.
 

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Interesting. You have the C0 full alder lake die with disabled e-cores and 2 less p-cores, I have the H0 smaller die which max support 6 p-cores. L3 is reported as 18mb so it looks like disabling e-cores removes the extra cache they hold.
This is a retail CPU bought in Germany btw
 
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maybe mention said fact at the beginning of the review?
 
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You mean this picture? Like on the OC page of each of my CPU reviews?
You mean the page of the review that I skipped because I know the CPU is not overclockable?

IMO you should include a CPU-Z screenshot of the chip at stock on the "Unboxing & Photos" page.
 

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because I know the CPU is not overclockable?

Stay tuned
 
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You mean the page of the review that I skipped because I know the CPU is not overclockable?

IMO you should include a CPU-Z screenshot of the chip at stock on the "Unboxing & Photos" page.
You can OC locked Alder lakes on Asus B660 F, Z690 apex and a few others ;)
 
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I know it's pretty pointless and the answer is probably no, do you plan on reviewing the regular i5-12600 model? Regional/local pricing and possible discounts makes it a viable option sometimes.

Also great review as always. The method is there, the data is there. It's up to you what to do with it.
 
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Does it make sense to upgrade now from R5 3600 + 2060Super to 12400 (F)? By the way, in my opinion, the review is die C0 (8 + 8) not small H0 (6 + 0).
 
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Does it make sense to upgrade now from R5 3600 + 2060Super to 12400 (F)? By the way, in my opinion, the review is die C0 (8 + 8) not small H0 (6 + 0).
I had R5 3600 before and generally if you play at 1080p 144Hz and use dlss there are a few games that can get a good boost. In shadow of the tomb raider 12400F is almost 50% faster at 1080p lowest, in other games the benefint can be anywhere from 10-50% at 1080p if CPU bound which you will be only when using dlss. If you play at 1440p or higher don't bother upgrading.

Yes, review die is C0, I have H0, if there is a difference in performance I don't know.
 
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I had R5 3600 before and generally if you play at 1080p 144Hz and use dlss there are a few games that can get a good boost. In shadow of the tomb raider 12400F is almost 50% faster at 1080p lowest, in other games the benefint can be anywhere from 10-50% at 1080p if CPU bound which you will be only when using dlss. If you play at 1440p or higher don't bother upgrading.

Yes, review die is C0, I have H0, if there is a difference in performance I don't know.
So far I play 1080p 75Hz. (1440p in the future when GPUs will be more affordable). I don't like DLSS and I use it very rarely (the image on the monitor is slightly blurred when using DLSS and I don't like that). I will not put new CPUs on my B350 and Intel, AMD, etc. have announced an increase prices of 10-20% next month. So I'm wondering if to buy 12400 (F) or 12500, rather now :-/.
 
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So far I play 1080p 75Hz. (1440p in the future when GPUs will be more affordable). I don't like DLSS and I use it very rarely (the image on the monitor is slightly blurred when using DLSS and I don't like that). I will not put new CPUs on my B350 and Intel, AMD, etc. have announced an increase prices of 10-20% next month. So I'm wondering if to buy 12400 (F) or 12500, rather now :-/.
If you don't use dlss and only have 75Hz there will be very little if any benefit. If you upgrade to a 144Hz monitor in the future and upgrade gpu you will see benefit. From what you say my advice is to keep you 3600 as you won't gain anything by upgrading since gpu is not very powerful, you don't use dlss and have low refreshrate monitor, start saving money and buy a better gpu/monitor in the future, for instance a rtx 4070 or 4060 when they come :)
 
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If you don't use dlss and only have 75Hz there will be very little if any benefit. If you upgrade to a 144Hz monitor in the future and upgrade gpu you will see benefit. From what you say my advice is to keep you 3600 as you won't gain anything by upgrading since gpu is not very powerful, you don't use dlss and have low refreshrate monitor, start saving money and buy a better gpu/monitor in the future, for instance a rtx 4070 or 4060 when they come :)
Thanks for advice. I'd rather wait. Maybe then I'll switch to AM5 (I hope DDR4 to keep my 2x16GB DDR4) and go a similar round like before "R5 1600,R5 2600 and R5 3600". The LGA 1700 is likely to end this year with Raptor Lake and no further upgrades will be possible. Or am I wrong? This is a big disadvantage.
 
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Thanks for advice. I'd rather wait. Maybe then I'll switch to AM5 (I hope DDR4 to keep my 2x16GB DDR4) and go a similar round like before "R5 1600,R5 2600 and R5 3600". The LGA 1700 is likely to end this year with Raptor Lake and no further upgrades will be possible. Or am I wrong? This is a big disadvantage.
Yeah, atkeast tidays mobos won't support 14th gen. AMD is way better on long term support. Ryzen 3600 is a great value CPU and if you tweak the ram then it performs very well (in SOTTR I got 132fps 1080p lowest at 3000cl16 xmp, running 3733cl15 tuned on cheap Micron rev E I got 154fps avg, so 17% faster CPU from ram tuning).
 
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i3-12100F review when? Pretty much beats the 3700X and sometimes the 3900X in gaming.
 

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Does it make sense to upgrade now from R5 3600 + 2060Super to 12400 (F)? By the way, in my opinion, the review is die C0 (8 + 8) not small H0 (6 + 0).
I had R5 3600 before and generally if you play at 1080p 144Hz and use dlss there are a few games that can get a good boost. In shadow of the tomb raider 12400F is almost 50% faster at 1080p lowest, in other games the benefint can be anywhere from 10-50% at 1080p if CPU bound which you will be only when using dlss. If you play at 1440p or higher don't bother upgrading.

Yes, review die is C0, I have H0, if there is a difference in performance I don't know.
I went from a 3700x, but saw the same: at higher refresh rates (100+) games do benefit from a CPU with better IPC. How much, depends on your GPU (with a 3080 and then 3090, i saw pretty good 30-40FPS gains in certain titles at lower GPU load situations)


If you're already on ryzen, i'd look to a 5600g/5600x instead and avoid a platform switch
 
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I went from a 3700x, but saw the same: at higher refresh rates (100+) games do benefit from a CPU with better IPC. How much, depends on your GPU (with a 3080 and then 3090, i saw pretty good 30-40FPS gains in certain titles at lower GPU load situations)


If you're already on ryzen, i'd look to a 5600g/5600x instead and avoid a platform switch
Unfortunately, my motherboard is not compatible with the Ryzen 5000 series. I don't know if AMD will eventually allow an upgrade to the old B350 chipset.
 
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Unfortunately, my motherboard is not compatible with the Ryzen 5000 series. I don't know if AMD will eventually allow an upgrade to the old B350 chipset.
What motherboard do you have? Asus and Asrock has added 5000-support to most of their 300-MBs.
 
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ROG STRIX B350-F GAMING. I have the system specifications in my profile :).
 
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