Intel offering downloadable hardware upgrades for low end chips.

[LordJummy]

Help me here, I believe I've had an aneurism.

1) Companies are out to make a profit. This is what we call capitalism. Throwing around any hate for socialism or capitalism is a debate for people running the show, not those who are looking at purchasing who vote with their wallets. This is capitalism at its core, so calm down.

2) Crippling processors isn't new. There were, to my knowledge, no original tri-core chips on the market. However, there are quad cores with one disabled. Crippling chips, to meet specific price points isn't new. Perhaps we can look past it.

3) DLC raises ire from us nerds. Given how many times the development companies have screwed the consumers, I can feel this. Removing my preconceptions from the mix, this DLC isn't really anything wrong. It doesn't install new DRM, it isn't "upgrading" a feature out of existance (hmmm....Sony.....hmmm), and it isn't taking anything away.

4) Price is determined by the consumer. Intel is trying to get the lowest spenders in the desktop market to spend money down the road. It's a decent deal. You spend some money now, then in a year when things get slower you spend some more to suddenly get things to move faster. Looking at the whole picture, the consumer has a small expense that will allow them to see more performance in the future. It makes business sense, and caters to those without the funds or skills to do a full cpu upgrade.


Given these thoughts, Intel isn't doing something indefensible. It may be unpalatable if you spend substantial amounts of money, but the three processors affected aren't exactly contenders for performance kings.

While I think this is a dangerous precedent for Intel to set, it isn't inherently wrong. I will not be purchasing anything like this, and will recommend to anyone I know not to purchase it. Poor sales will hurt this initiative far more than some b****ing on a message board.

By not purchasing these processors, and even going AMD, you send Intel a clear message. Vote with your money, stop complaining, and spread the word. Intel is generally not stupid enough to allow business decisions (from the money seeking top) to hurt them when competing against AMD. Besides, the APU beats out the i3 in everything but raw computational performance (pricing and graphics given the target market).

*Edit: Researched AMD core schemes and I was wrong.

A lot of what you're saying sounds like the oppressive tactics that many evil regimes have used. Why are you so against people debating something they feel is important? It's not "bitching". I can't just not buy intel products, because I absolutely require them. My customers require intel, and will not go with anything else.

Why do you take this so personally? If you disagree, then debate it, but don't try and tell people to just shut up and stop talking about it.

"Throwing around any hate for socialism or capitalism is a debate for people running the show, not those who are looking at purchasing"

^ This is just plain sad. If you truly think that, then you have forgotten what this country was founded for. WE are supposed to be the ones running the show. Are you too far gone to remember that?

 

[Damn_Smooth]

My take on this is it wouldn't be a very big deal if we didn't know any better. We all know that other chips can unlock extra cores and be overclocked without paying anything extra, so we rightfully think these should be the same way.

If there had been no method to overclock or unlock anything before this, we might actually consider it reasonable.

No fanboyism intended here, but I think it's worse coming from Intel. They are way bigger than AMD and I can't understand why they think they should charge for something that their way smaller competition is giving away for free.

I still wouldn't condone it from AMD, but their financial situation would make it a little easier to swallow.

I also think that this is bringing out a certain fear that this could spread to higher end chips and that AMD would jump on the bandwagon, so people are getting a little more upset about it than they should. As long as this sticks to Intel's extremely low end, I'm fine with it.

 

[Kreij]

Help me here, I believe I've had an aneurism.

Rolf ... I'm in this thread to try to prevent that. Guess I failed.

I'm really impressed with you guys. No flaming, no trashing, no thread crapping.
This is what discussions on TPU are supposed to be like.

Now, it's obvious that everyone at Intel, even down to the lowliest janitor are evil bastages involved in a huge conspiracy to change the planet's name from "Earth" to "Intel Inside".
(Yeah, I'm a mod. I can get away with more shit than you. So don't start. )

Carry on ...

 

[LordJummy]

I also think that this is bringing out a certain fear that this could spread to higher end chips and that AMD would jump on the bandwagon, so people are getting a little more upset about it than they should. As long as this sticks to Intel's extremely low end, I'm fine with it.

This also isn't affecting me directly, as I don't buy the low end chips and most likely never will. However, if the educated buyers like ourselves don't inform other people then no one will. I just feel a responsibility to help people understand exactly what is going on. While it is not happening now, Intel could decide to start further crippling other chips if this is successful. It is irresponsible to not take action when you see that it is necessary.

(PS: People keep reiterating this, but I already know that many manufacturers have been crippling hardware for years. We all understand that it's nothing new.)

 

[Kreij]

You are right LJ. That's why we are here at TPU. To separate the wheat from the chaff.

 

[Damn_Smooth]

This also isn't affecting me directly, as I don't buy the low end chips and most likely never will. However, if the educated buyers like ourselves don't inform other people then no one will. I just feel a responsibility to help people understand exactly what is going on. While it is not happening now, Intel could decide to start further crippling other chips if this is successful. It is irresponsible to not take action when you see that it is necessary.

(PS: People keep reiterating this, but I already know that many manufacturers have been crippling hardware for years. We all understand that it's nothing new.)

I understand your point, but I would already try talking anyone I know out of going with something that low end.

Again, I am not condoning this in any way shape or form, but if it stays where it's at, I'm not going to let it bother me.

 

[Kreij]

There really is a greater problem than Intel charging for a CPU update.
It's the total lack of knowledge that PC buyers have when it comes to computers.
It's IMPOSSIBLE to feed the people who want a $399 Dell enough information as to why it will most likely not be sufficient for what they want to do, as they simply do not understand what components make up a PC, what they do and how they affect performance.

I really have no answer for this, and because of this lack of information they will keep buying low performing systems because they are cheap.

This is what I hear all of the time ... "I just want a computer to surf the webz, read e-mail and play the latest games".
They have no idea the difference between a rig that will surf the web and play the latest games. (sigh)

 

[LordJummy]

There really is a greater problem than Intel charging for a CPU update.
It's the total lack of knowledge that PC buyers have when it comes to computers.
It's IMPOSSIBLE to feed the people who want a $399 Dell enough information as to why it will most likely not be sufficient for what they want to do, as they simply do not understand what components make up a PC, what they do and how they affect performance.

I really have no answer for this, and because of this lack of information they will keep buying low performing systems because they are cheap.

You are right. It is unfortunate that a large chunk of consumers don't even bother to educate themselves. It is their own fault for being ignorant, BUT we can still try and educate them - even if it is futile.

A good example is my mother. I build computers for her to use, because she literally does not care about technology, nor does she want to learn about it. I have offered to teach her about the hardware, but she flat out refuses. She literally has told me "I don't want to know how it works, and I don't care". That, unfortunately, is the overwhelming majority of consumers. What can we do though? Not much...

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

A lot of what you're saying sounds like the oppressive tactics that many evil regimes have used. Why are you so against people debating something they feel is important? It's not "bitching". I can't just not buy intel products, because I absolutely require them. My customers require intel, and will not go with anything else.

Why do you take this so personally? If you disagree, then debate it, but don't try and tell people to just shut up and stop talking about it.

"Throwing around any hate for socialism or capitalism is a debate for people running the show, not those who are looking at purchasing"

^ This is just plain sad. If you truly think that, then you have forgotten what this country was founded for. WE are supposed to be the ones running the show. Are you too far gone to remember that?

What exactly is your problem? It seems like you're out to be pissed, and looking for a target.

I said that we vote for the things we like with our wallet. This implies a distictive choice in the matter.

I may have worded the sentiment about "those who run the show" incorrectly. Intel is a business. They could sell a P4 for $2000 if they really wanted to. They run their pricing, and therefore run the show. If you want to avoid the show don't pay admission, don't go in, and don't tell them they are wrong because you think they should be doing it a different way.

My hatred for your blatantly angry interpretations aside, being angry on a forum does nothing. If it did we'd have more seasons of Firefly. Convincing people not to buy this crap, or telling Intel directly that this is crap, is how you attack this thing. Those who talk (or type) without developing a course of action are those that get nothing done.


Your customers "requiring" (I don't know the situation so I can't comment on the legitimacy of this claim) Intel is not the point of this discussion, nor is it the point of this topic. Being angry with Intel may well be justified. Being angry enough to warrant action is great. Being angry about your servers, whenever this topic is about decidedly not server hardware, is a quandry. Perhaps you should find a better outlet. Passing on this information will do more damage than bemoaning the state of things here.


As far as your personal attack, which is off topic, I can only say this. I am a libertarian. I know what this country is founded upon, and I hate where it is going. Fighting the fight you can win may not be as glamorous as a flame war, but it actually changes things. You should really not assume things from people because you think they disagree with what you think. Additionally, I didn't say discussing this here is useless. I said that it will not bring about the actions that you obviously seek.

 

[LordJummy]

I did not personally attack you, I only replied to the information you posted. I know nothing about you as a person, nor do I pretend to.

I am not angry, just disappointed & frustrated. Your opinion is your own, but don't assume I am angry just because you took my posts as offensive. I am not out to attack anyone, but you are aggressively arguing with me so I defend myself against it, plain and simple.

I'm sorry if I did offend you, but I am not going to further derail this thread by indulging your emotional outburst.

Those who talk (or type) without developing a course of action are those that get nothing done.

I DO inform people, and almost on a daily basis. What makes you think that I don't? Like I said in previous posts, you are assuming a LOT.

Please show me where I personally insulted you. If you feel insulted that's one thing, but I did not throw a personal insult at you. I only expressed my own opinions and feelings.

Again, thank you for your opinion. I appreciate it.

 

[Kreij]

Okay guys, you are both arguing on the same side of the fence whether you see it on not.
Discussing it here will not change anything (lilH) but if we don't start somewhere we've done nothing (LJ).
You both agree in general, just not on how to go about effecting change.

Calm down. Take a deep breath. Have a beer or two. Then post.

 

[Damn_Smooth]

Okay guys, you are both arguing on the same side of the fence whether you see it on not.
Discussing it here will not change anything (lilH) but if we don't start somewhere we've done nothing (LJ).
You both agree in general, just not on how to go about effecting change.

Calm down. Take a deep breath. Have a beer or two. Then post.

You really think alcohol will help?

 

[Kreij]

Probably not, but then you have something to blame for the infraction.

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

^ This is just plain sad. If you truly think that, then you have forgotten what this country was founded for. WE are supposed to be the ones running the show. Are you too far gone to remember that?

Am I missing something critical to understanding this comment? It is a direct insult, as far as I am concerned.


What I have read through the rest of this thread indicates that you have a very contradictory view of the situation. You've engaged a mod, suggesting that they are paying for non-basic services because they are forced to. You've rather openly indicated that Intel's business practices are not to your liking, and you've indicated that your customers decide to go with their products anyways (despite your suggestions).

I haven't seen a single server class piece of hardware even remotely come close to this same upgrade style. Telling a bunch of high level computer users what they have already surmised is somewhat redundant. If you can convey the knowledge that you espouse here to those that might actually purchase this level of hardware, then you are winning the battle. As it stands, this discussion only wears on either of our patience.



With this stated, I would like to take the high road and not respond to anything more. It may be childish, but I'm not going to respond to this any further. It's not productive for either of us to waste the effort here.

 

[LordJummy]

I agree that we should not be fighting against one another, even if we have different views.

Although I would like to say that it is productive to talk about it here, because there are people on this forum who are not thoroughly educated.

Either way, I appreciate your passion & opinions and I apologize if I offended you. It was not my intention.

Okay guys, you are both arguing on the same side of the fence whether you see it on not.
Discussing it here will not change anything (lilH) but if we don't start somewhere we've done nothing (LJ).
You both agree in general, just not on how to go about effecting change.

Calm down. Take a deep breath. Have a beer or two. Then post.

Thank you for the added insight. You are a wise man.

 

[cheesy999]

I'd like this for my laptop, if i could turn my i3 into an i5 or at least increase the ghz for a reasonable cost

while this sounds like a bad idea for desktops, take a look at the people who don't need full at the time they buy, they could buy an i3 or pentium laptop and upgrade when they need more power

 

[LordJummy]

I'd like this for my laptop, if i could turn my i3 into an i5 or at least increase the ghz for a reasonable cost

while this sounds like a bad idea for desktops, take a look at the people who don't need full at the time they buy, they could buy an i3 or pentium laptop and upgrade when they need more power

It is a nice little boost, but remember that the hardware was already there, and they didn't let you have all of it when you paid for it (hypothetically of course)


Side note: Time to hop off of the forums for a while and go outside lol. Thanks for the great debate gentlemen.

 

[cheesy999]

It is a nice little boost, but remember that the hardware was already there, and they didn't let you have all of it when you paid for it


Side note: Time to hop off of the forums for a while and go outside lol. Thanks for the great debate gentlemen.

in a sense the hardware was already there

but look at it this way

i can't afford a 2500k

However i don't need a 2500K for gaming as at the moment i have a gts 250, so i could buy an I3

say in the future, i upgrade my graphics card to something more powerfull, and want a proccesor to match

I could then pay the difference (+20% likely) and have an i5 or i7 cheaper, then what i could of had if if i had to buy a whole new chip

 

[Kreij]

LOl ... LJ, you are hopeless.

Many years ago, my 6th degree black belt Sensei gave us a tip ..
"Avoid a fight at all costs, but if you must fight, fight to win no matter what it takes."

Part of avoiding the fight is to realize that most times the person who is being confrontational is not really so much different than yourself if you take the time to talk to them. They may have a differing opinion, but they don't want to get their ass kicked either.

On the internet, we are all anonymous, but we are still subject to the perceptions of the rest of the anonymous people on the forums. Fight with facts and integrity, not with sticks and stones, so your internet "persona" does not get it's ass kicked.

Just a little aged wisdom from yer Old Uncle Kreij

 

[purecain]

mandetory car analogy coming...

so basically, as a consumer... you go into a showroom and buy a car, now they know your car is gonna struggle at high speeds so they lock the 5th gear to compound the issue....

then offer it back to you as an upgrade....

as far as i'm concearned this should be a free fix.... i missed a couple of pages of the thread...
i checked the intel site and missed where they had a price...
can someone clarify weather we know how much they intend to charge...???

intel have had it good for to long, come on amd give us some competition... we need a price war badly...

 

[LordJummy]

LOl ... LJ, you are hopeless.

Many years ago, my 6th degree black belt Sensei gave us a tip ..
"Avoid a fight at all costs, but if you must fight, fight to win no matter what it takes."

Part of avoiding the fight is to realize that most times the person who is being confrontational is not really so much different than yourself if you take the time to talk to them. They may have a differing opinion, but they don't want to get their ass kicked either.

On the internet, we are all anonymous, but we are still subject to the perceptions of the rest of the anonymous people on the forums. Fight with facts and integrity, not with sticks and stones, so your internet "persona" does not get it's ass kicked.

Just a little aged wisdom from yer Old Uncle Kreij

Yes I know. Sometimes I get a little carried away. I promise I'm about to leave the house for a few hours though. You will be free of me!

mandetory car analogy coming...

so basically, as a consumer... you go into a showroom and buy a car, now they know your car is gonna struggle at high speeds so they lock the 5th gear to compound the issue....

then offer it back to you as an upgrade....

as far as i'm concearned this should be a free fix.... i missed a couple of pages of the thread...
i checked the intel site and missed where they had a price...
can someone clarify weather we know how much they intend to charge...???

intel have had it good for to long, come on amd give us some competition... we need a price war badly...

That's exactly the way I look at it. They are giving you something you already own as an "upgrade". This is even worse than paying a premium for an "unlocked" CPU.

 

[purecain]

unfortunatly, were fighting a losing battle... as much as 90% of the public are completely stupid...

most internet forums are a testament to that fact...

that leaves 10% of the population to fight the corperate bully's and their underhand tactics...

or at least try to educate the masses... so that there is change...

 

[Easy Rhino]

some people refuse to think their thoughts through before posting. intel is not doing any underhanded tricks or anything unethical. they are selling you a product as advertised and you buy it. it delivers the advertised power and all is well. just because that same chip can actually do more than what is was sold to do doesnt mean you are being ripped off. this is how chip companies can stay in business and grow and expend hundreds of millions on R&D for a failed product. they diversify one chip into many. this is one of the MAIN reasons why the consumer pc market exists today. to argue against what intel is doing is to argue that everyone should regarldess of income level have the exact same amount of pc power and it should cost a ton of money. you wont get very far in a marketplace like that...

 

[jsfitz54]

If I could only trade a few glass beads for Manhattan Island the system would work in my favor.

 

[qubit]

some people refuse to think their thoughts through before posting. intel is not doing any underhanded tricks or anything unethical. they are selling you a product as advertised and you buy it. it delivers the advertised power and all is well. just because that same chip can actually do more than what is was sold to do doesnt mean you are being ripped off. this is how chip companies can stay in business and grow and expend hundreds of millions on R&D for a failed product. they diversify one chip into many. this is one of the MAIN reasons why the consumer pc market exists today. to argue against what intel is doing is to argue that everyone should regarldess of income level have the exact same amount of pc power and it should cost a ton of money. you wont get very far in a marketplace like that...

You make it sound like they HAVE to do this to survive. They do not. CPU's have been sold discretely for the last 20 years or so and they've never had "unlockable" performance before, yet Intel has done very well indeed. This is a crucial point.

To me, like various others on here, this sounds very much like they're creaming more money from the gullible - not quite a scam, but not a million miles away either, as it's very misleading. A very similar tactic to nvidia renaming old GPUs to "new" product ranges several times over to fool the uninformed into spending on old tech. :shadedshu

The various negatives with this feature have been discussed at length here so I won't repeat them and risk going round arguing in circles.