Intel Scraps 10nm for Desktop, Brazen it Out with 14nm Skylake Till 2022?

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

Here is AMD's QUOTE:


That said, ZEN 3 will be on Socket AM4. ZEN 4 may see Socket AM4+. But 99% of the user base that builds there own PCs usually always upgrade there CPUs and Motherboards together. To get to my point, if AMD releases a new socket, that doesn't make AM4 obsolete. Never did in the past and never will in the future, LOL


I think Jim Keller will deliver but it will take 4 - 5 years from when he was hired. The question is when and like you said, density/process issues may also be a limiting factor overall.
AMD has the perfect opportunity to continue to deliver and increase its market share while Intel is struggling.

It's probably safe to say he will be instrumental in the 7,nm core design from intel , there are rumours of Intel making their next design BIG with far more resources but we'll see, I am eager to see the PC of that generation for deffo.
For both Intel and AMD a big L4/5 cache has to be on the cards and that plus extra internal cache should accelerate IPc gains a bit.

 

[Agentbb007]

Great now it will be easy to convince myself to keep my 9900k until 2022, saving money yay!

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

I kinda wondered what the desktop was going to look like when their mobile 10nm lineup had a boost clock deficit to 14nm. Sure, it had an IPC uplift, but they just gave it back on frequency. I don’t think 10nm is clocking well at all, and mobile is the only place they can even try to sell it, and they are doing that with a stronger GPU. The GPU might have even been an afterthought considering how long the 10nm delay is.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

I kinda wondered what the desktop was going to look like when their mobile 10nm lineup had a boost clock deficit to 14nm. Sure, it had an IPC uplift, but they just gave it back on frequency. I don’t think 10nm is clocking well at all, and mobile is the only place they can even try to sell it, and they are doing that with a stronger GPU. The GPU might have even been an afterthought considering how long the 10nm delay is.

10nm is coming to servers with icelake ,28 core parts initially in 2020, but obviously they're high margin and lower frequency anyway ,just to keep Tdp in check with god knows what to follow , probably not more than two generation's then 7nm?.

Though at this point I am not confident this isn't nonsense since so many of intels timelines have been fantastical products of pr.

 

[tony359]

Ryzen 4000 on a B350 board? Maybe. A320 - problably not.

As a 320 owner I enjoyed all the people staying that the 320 wouldn't be 3000 compatible because <put a random reason here not backed up by any technical background>. While everything is possible, I think I'll sit back, relax and enjoy!

 

[Vya Domus]

10nm is coming to servers with icelake ,28 core parts initially in 2020, but obviously they're high margin and lower frequency anyway ,just to keep Tdp in check with god knows what to follow , probably not more than two generation's then 7nm?.

Though at this point I am not confident this isn't nonsense since so many of intels timelines have been fantastical products of pr.

You know what no one takes into consideration ? Yields. I have a feeling they're still horrible hence these mediocre mobile 10nm mobile parts being the only real thing out there at this moment. More importantly what that would imply is volume production of huge monolithic dies for their Xeons could still be a far dream at this point. They're certainly no near what TSMC has right know, you can be sure of that. I doubt AMD can make something huge in volume on their 7nm node right now as well.

Unless they have something akin to AMD's chiplets they are going to need a hell of an asspull to get anything remotely competitive. The more you look into it the bleaker it gets.

 

[Super XP]

You know what no one takes into consideration ? Yields. I have a feeling they're still horrible hence these mediocre mobile 10nm mobile parts being the only real thing out there at this moment. More importantly what that would imply is volume production of huge monolithic dies for their Xeons could still be a far dream at this point. They're certainly no near what TSMC has right know, you can be sure of that. I doubt AMD can make something huge in volume on their 7nm node right now as well.

Unless they have something akin to AMD's chiplets they are going to need a hell of an asspull to get anything remotely competitive. The more you look into it the bleaker it gets.

Hopefully Jim Keller doesn't share trade secrets with Intel, seeing how he was the lead in the of the ZEN micro-architecture design. Anyhow Intel will have a great struggle to keep pace with AMDs current processors and the upcoming ZEN3, ZEN4 and ZEN5 designs.

 

[ppn]

A wise decision. Next big thing. 10nm is already obsolete, not being released 2016 when it should. 2019 skip 7nm, so in 2022 is time for 5nm. Which is precisely what 7nmEUV really is. Because it is 5.5 times the density of 14 nm.

 

[Deleted member 185158]

AMD lacks frequency IMO. I miss the 5ghz club.....

 

[newtekie1]

"Skylake derived" ha, that's funny. These cores date back to Sandybridge. Intel's been relying on optimizations and node shrinks to gain performance since then.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

A wise decision. Next big thing. 10nm is already obsolete, not being released 2016 when it should. 2019 skip 7nm, so in 2022 is time for 5nm. Which is precisely what 7nmEUV really is. Because it is 5.5 times the density of 14 nm.

AMD could well be on 5,nm GAA FETs by then ,im seeing a two horse race minimum from here on in./10years minimum.

 

[danbert2000]

I'm not surprised that they're just going to try to forget 10nm was even a thing. It was a failed node from the start, and they have thrown millions of dollars at it and it still can't support the clocks that they need to match Coffee Lake. I've said this before, but it's a lot like Haswell to Broadwell. They almost didn't release Broadwell desktop because the clocks were lower and the small IPC bump couldn't make up for it. But the customers were tetchy so they did release it, and it was a sidegrade at best. Eventually they got the node up to speed but at that time they could afford one dud generation, and that's from someone with the "dud" gen chip in my PC. Now with an actual competitor out there, they wouldn't dare put out a processor that they couldn't guarantee to be faster at everything. And without a future for 10 nm with 7 nm coming as the actually usable node, it doesn't even make sense to put effort into 10 nm at this point. They'll sell mobile chips on it as long as they are competitive with AMD, which should be a couple years until AMD finally figures out the idle power and voltage issues and irons out all of the mobility kinks, and they they'll write off the rest of the capital expense loss as the biggest failure in modern business history.

I would be very wary to be an Intel shareholder at this point. This 10 nm boondoggle was a decade-long conspiracy of lies and "technically" meeting public commitments. I don't know it there's any possibility of 7 nm news being taken seriously from Intel until they actually show us the goods. Intel squandered a nearly five year fab advantage and I doubt they'll ever have that chance again. No wonder they snapped up Jim Keller, at this point even their IP is out of date. All that's left is inertia and cash. Let's just hope Intel avoids bankruptcy so AMD doesn't turn into the monster they're in the process of slaying.

 

[Mephis]

Intel just denied this rumor to Tom's Hardware, so looks like it wasn't true.

Intel: Yes, There Will be 10nm Desktop CPUs (Updated)

Intel refutes rumors that it is skipping the 10nm process for desktop processors

www-tomshardware-com.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[neatfeatguy]

Intel just denied this rumor to Tom's Hardware, so looks like it wasn't true.

Intel: Yes, There Will be 10nm Desktop CPUs (Updated)

Intel refutes rumors that it is skipping the 10nm process for desktop processors

www-tomshardware-com.cdn.ampproject.org

We'll believe it when we see it.

 

[TheGuruStud]

Intel just denied this rumor to Tom's Hardware, so looks like it wasn't true.

Intel: Yes, There Will be 10nm Desktop CPUs (Updated)

Intel refutes rumors that it is skipping the 10nm process for desktop processors

www-tomshardware-com.cdn.ampproject.org

They also denied 10nm was dead. A vegetable on life support is functionally dead lol

 

[Prima.Vera]

How about DDR5 or PCI-EX 4.0 ? Any news about that? Currently I see less and less reasons to go for an uber expensive Intel platform...

 

[ShurikN]

How about DDR5 or PCI-EX 4.0 ? Any news about that. Currently I see less and less reasons to go for an uber expensive Intel platform...

Both AMD and Intel plan to intorduce DDR5 in 2021. Servers first of course.

 

[Mephis]

They also denied 10nm was dead. A vegetable on life support is functionally dead lol

Let's see, 10nm is shipping now, there are more designs and chips on the roadmap for laptops, desktops and server, you are right it is dead.

I know you are a fanboy, but even through your red colored glasses you should be able to see that 10nm isn't "dead."

 

[biffzinker]

How about DDR5 or PCI-EX 4.0 ? Any news about that. Currently I see less and less reasons to go for an uber expensive Intel platform...

Seen something about Intel skipping over PCIe 4.0.

Intel's going PCIe 5 starting with the Sapphire Rapids Platform.

Intel server platform going for Socket LGA4677 with PCIe 5.0 and DDR5 memory

While AMD just recently implemented PCIe Gen 4.0 on the latest motherboards and graphics cards, we've already seen some PCIe Gen 5 announcements. As it seems, Intel is already working on some PCIe Ge...

www.guru3d.com

 

[Platinum certified Husky]

14nm+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ when???

 

[R0H1T]

Let's see, 10nm is shipping now, there are more designs and chips on the roadmap for laptops, desktops and server, you are right it is dead.

I know you are a fanboy, but even through your red colored glasses you should be able to see that 10nm isn't "dead."

You do know that ICL on 10nm is pretty much a CC of Broadwell launch, talking about CL ~ well I wouldn't even know where to begin

Yes yes let's not go there, I can show you the ever changing roadmaps of Intel with 10nm projected release date about 3 (4?) years back? Anyone thinking server chips on 10nm will just fly off the fabs need to have a good hard look at what Intel has achieved on 10nm thus far, real hard look & that's with a less aggressive 10nm node than what was originally planned

 

[notb]

AMD needs to capitalize on this news as much as possible.
I expect triple digit % gains in CPU market share.

You know this is physically not possible, right?

 

[JalleR]

This Starts to smell like P4, with good performance though

 

[Vayra86]

10nm is coming to servers with icelake ,28 core parts initially in 2020, but obviously they're high margin and lower frequency anyway ,just to keep Tdp in check with god knows what to follow , probably not more than two generation's then 7nm?.

Though at this point I am not confident this isn't nonsense since so many of intels timelines have been fantastical products of pr.

Where is the product?

A page or so back we had lots of posts about AM4 and Zen 3 and how it would or wouldn't happen, but we know for sure it'll happen on A socket. With Intel right now, we have not even a remote clue what an Ice Lake enterprise part even looks like. All we really know is that they have something that's not entirely shit for a laptop. Well yay, they can make a quad core on 10nm...

And here's the funniest part. Look at the TDP increase they need to not have an utterly abysmal (Atom comes to mind) baseclock and include turbo beyond 4 Ghz.

In other words, this scales like shit. A many core enterprise part will easily surpass 200W and for what? 2.3 base? teehee

But let's try to find some products then.... @notb you will love this, too

___
When can I buy Intel's 10th Gen Core CPUs?

Intel hasn't provided a timeline for when its 10th Gen Core chips will be available to buy on their own yet. However, we expect the first batch of laptops to be available with these new processors soon.

Intel says it expects around 35 laptop designs from various manufacturers to debut throughout the rest of 2019. We expect to see an influx of new and refreshed laptops sporting these chips in the holiday season.
___

Aha! OK. China. But that 2.3 Ghz part... hmmm

Anything else? I clicked DuckDuckGo 'more results' about 10 times, this XPS product is all I could find...

XPS 7390 2-in-1 | Dell USA

Explore Dell 13-inch 2-in-1 laptop with the first HDR display, advanced thermal design and long battery life.

www.dell.com

Painful, I say. The best part they can make apparently is the 1.3 Ghz one. We're close to 2020 already. Only 34 laptop models to be released

Mobile segment means laptops.

You mean laptop, singular not plural?

Let's see, 10nm is shipping now, there are more designs and chips on the roadmap for laptops, desktops and server, you are right it is dead.

I know you are a fanboy, but even through your red colored glasses you should be able to see that 10nm isn't "dead."

Come again?

You know this is physically not possible, right?

If AMD doubles they'll have 100% growth in share... right?

 

[1d10t]

Hardly. They may make a superior product for now (I have my eyes set on that tasty 3950X!), but AMD has a mountain of mind share and market share that you cannot believe they have to contend with so you won't see them slowing anytime soon. They are still very much David against Goliath and they only make a tenth of Intel's mega-revenue. We still see potentially hundreds of thousands of loyalists in IT departments across all kinds of industries (school districts, financial institutions, airlines, department stores, factories, shipping services, etc.) dotting the globe who are sticking to Intel because of tradition (It's in our blood and our rich history and it's who we are.), track record (It's battle tested in the field so why change brands now and risk more help desk calls?), and brand image and recognition (Who's AMD? Oh, are they the guys with the hot, slow processors?). You can also thank the clueless Dell, HP, and Lenovo representatives who insist on Intel when people ask for AMD for continue these trains of thought. We may get it, but most people are generally slow to change, absorbing and adapting to it. They have a ways to go--likely three to five years before they absorb a half of the market if they keep at their current clip--before they can safely let off the gas. Until then, they have to fight Intel's marketing and their own stigma.

This statement are right on the heels.For long time, Intel known to be good at building brand awareness, it's hard to get over with it.Their money is well spend toward marketing and "rebate". It's not a secret that OEM and channel partner are giving rebates and offering rewards if you engaging with particular product.
Time will tell, let's see if Fiat Multipla clouded with billions of dollar can run another year