Intel "Tiger Lake" Beats AMD "Renoir" in Graphics Tests under 3D Mark

[Fouquin]

problem is AMD have been using the VEGA as iGPU way to long in their cpu's.

It's been less than three years since Raven and we're looking at a power limited variant that is definitely not hitting peak clocks during sustained loads.

They have already done iGPU with RDNA2 for both SONY and Microsoft consoles, a SoC that actually are in production right now so it is not like they do not have the tech ready for release.

First of all how do you know the SoCs are already in production? They could very well still be in varying degrees of qualification but not final silicon.

Second of all, just because one chip is taped out doesn't mean they can just slice it down into another chip in one move. You expected them to have RDNA2 ready in an APU only 6 months after the launch of RDNA? And with all the driver bugs that RDNA has been suffering since launch?

 

[Chrispy_]

Exciting. AMD has been slacking in the graphics dept of their APUs, this should be a good wake up call.

Indeed. Looking at benchmark scores of the 4700U's Vega7 using DDR4-3200, it's barely 10% faster than my 2700U's Vega10 using DDR4-2400. Admittedly I have to run mine at 22W TDP instead of 15W TDP, but mine is an older GloFo 14nm product so that's to be expected.

 

[evernessince]

Exciting. AMD has been slacking in the graphics dept of their APUs, this should be a good wake up call.

Pretty dissapointing that a moderator is saying something like this. 28w CPU vs a 15w one. Enough said. Add onto that the AMD CPU is an 8 core while the Intel is a 4 core. AMD did make a big jump with Vega on it's recent APUs in performance per watt. That a 15w 8 core is only beaten to a yet to be released 28w Intel 4 core says more then enough.

 

[Tom Yum]

Except that Renoir has a much higher iGPU clock speed (2100mhz according to techradar) VS intel (cant find tiger lake clocks yet, but intel iGPUs typically hit up to 1350 on the most powerful SKUs).

So its likely NOT clock rate, its graphical architectural improvements. I agree we should wait for real world benchmarks first for the same reason as you, but Intel's GPU department hasnt been as sleepy as their CPU department.

The 4800u GPU runs at 1750MHz, 2100MHz is the rumoured GPU speed for the desktop 4700G. Again, considering the large TDP differences and the fact 1165G has half the processing power as the 4800U, 10% faster in a old benchmark that is known to not reflect modern gaming performance is not particularly impressive.

 

[watzupken]

If the Tiger Lake U is running at full TDP up @ 28W, it is clearly a red flag to me. The ultra low voltage processors are actually very power starved, especially when both CPU and GPU are under load. In addition, to be able to sustain 28W, means you need a beefier cooling solution, which is sorely lacking for the segment which these ULV processors are targeting. I think as the article clearly mentioned, I will take this with a bunch of salt. Till I see the final product being reviewed, I will not be convinced that Tiger Lake U is significantly better than the Ice Lake U, or Renoir. There are too many unknowns in this sorts of leaks.

 

[Frick]

Just stahp... do we REALLY care about 10% extra IGP performance? That's like 10% more of nothing.

It wasn't ever relevant for AMD's APUs and its not relevant now. The baseline perf is fine for ultra casual gaming and basic usage. It won't get bigger than that, unless you like 20 FPS gameplay at low. So now you get 22 FPS. Wooptiedoo. IGPs are lucky if they get enough speed over time to grow along with that bottom line they could once achieve. Games are getting heavier to run much faster than IGPs develop.

Especially now with RT gaining ground, the IGP won't cut it for gaming. And for everything else it just needs to adhere to new standards, like a 4K output.

Don't forget older AAA titles. I am much more interested i how much performance you can get from a cheapish small and lightweight laptop than from a dedicated GPU costing as much as said laptop.

 

[Vayra86]

Don't forget older AAA titles. I am much more interested i how much performance you can get from a cheapish small and lightweight laptop than from a dedicated GPU costing as much as said laptop.

Good point, but even there for any half decent 3D the progress is sooooooo slooooooow.

 

[Fourstaff]

Pretty dissapointing that a moderator is saying something like this. 28w CPU vs a 15w one. Enough said. Add onto that the AMD CPU is an 8 core while the Intel is a 4 core. AMD did make a big jump with Vega on it's recent APUs in performance per watt. That a 15w 8 core is only beaten to a yet to be released 28w Intel 4 core says more then enough.

The fact that Intel comes anywhere close is valid cause of concern to AMD, this should be their undisputed territory. They have been stagnating on 620 for the longest time. On a related note, Wikipedia lists 4800U as 10-25w, I will need to dig deeper to understand if the benchmark is 10w 4800U or a 25w 4800U.

 

[SL2]

Nop, APUS are the future of computing. As soon as the era of fully modular SOCs gain traction we will see increasingly powerful and complex APUs. Even now, they are more relevant than you pointed out, those APUs are an efficient and inexpensive way to play games and basic 3D render(A 3TF IGPU helps a lot). Plus, some of the most popular games run very well on APUs.

I was talking about now. Nothing you said contradicts what I said. I never said APU's are lacking in performance.

Unlike graphics cards, for every APU laptop without discrete graphics that's actually used for demanding games, there are thousands of laptops with APU's and without discrete graphics that aren't used for that, which means making faster graphics in said APU's won't give much ROI. Die size cost money, R&D cost money, and as soon as that same APU is put in a laptop with discrete graphics, that extra (as in substantially faster than Renoir) integrated graphics is pretty much a waste.

That's why Renoir is ~150 mm² and not 250, and that's why they only have one APU die and not two, because that would also cost money. It doesn't matter that you, barf, or anyone else is dreaming about IGP's doubling in performance from one generation to another, AMD has to look at the bigger picture and not at a tiny fraction of a tiny fraction of the market.

 

[Dante Uchiha]

I was talking about now. Nothing you said contradicts what I said. I never said APU's are lacking in performance.

Unlike graphics cards, for every APU laptop without discrete graphics that's actually used for demanding games, there are thousands of laptops with APU's and without discrete graphics that aren't used for that, which means making faster graphics in said APU's won't give much ROI. Die size cost money, R&D cost money, and as soon as that same APU is put in a laptop with discrete graphics, that extra (as in substantially faster than Renoir) integrated graphics is pretty much a waste.

That's why Renoir is ~150 mm² and not 250, and that's why they only have one APU die and not two, because that would also cost money. It doesn't matter that you, barf, or anyone else is dreaming about IGP's doubling in performance from one generation to another, AMD has to look at the bigger picture and not at a tiny fraction of a tiny fraction of the market.

Okay, first point. APUs have low margins compared to other CPUs of the same line, but still higher than low-end GPUs such as the RX 5500 (similar die size), as it does not require expensive dedicated memory, complex cooling or support through drivers (that also cost tons of money). AMD does not devote much investment in APUs, simply develops its GPUs and CPU architecture, and with time port this technology to APU w/ outdated process by the way.

Second point, the APUs market is not small:

IMHO, an APU could only double performance with bandwidth upgrade: DDR5 or dedicated HBM memory.

 

[EasyListening]

"Also for context, it's expected that Intel's i7-1165G7 runs with a 28 W TDP, compared to AMD's R7 4800U 15 W envelope."

I'll take the extra battery life, please...

It's not like there are any secrets here that Intel has over AMD. It's all Raja Koduri anyways.

Also, it's interesting that Vega scales as well as it does, from 15W up to 300W on Radeon VII.