• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

International Memory Workshop: 3D NAND Flash to Reach 140 Layers By 2021

Raevenlord

News Editor
Joined
Aug 12, 2016
Messages
3,755 (1.34/day)
Location
Portugal
System Name The Ryzening
Processor AMD Ryzen 9 5900X
Motherboard MSI X570 MAG TOMAHAWK
Cooling Lian Li Galahad 360mm AIO
Memory 32 GB G.Skill Trident Z F4-3733 (4x 8 GB)
Video Card(s) Gigabyte RTX 3070 Ti
Storage Boot: Transcend MTE220S 2TB, Kintson A2000 1TB, Seagate Firewolf Pro 14 TB
Display(s) Acer Nitro VG270UP (1440p 144 Hz IPS)
Case Lian Li O11DX Dynamic White
Audio Device(s) iFi Audio Zen DAC
Power Supply Seasonic Focus+ 750 W
Mouse Cooler Master Masterkeys Lite L
Keyboard Cooler Master Masterkeys Lite L
Software Windows 10 x64
3D NAND has been one of the most important new technologies in allowing for greater storage density in space-constrained hardware (isn't that always the case, though?) As we've stepped away from the usual 2D NAND to the nowadays market-leading 3D solutions, which stack layers of memory one on top of the other (thus making use of vertical space instead of the usually more costly horizontal one), memory density and price per GB has been steadily declining - a relationship that isn't quite as parallel as it may seem, but still occurs.





Applied Material's Sean Kang, speaking at Japan's International Memory Workshop (IMW), said that he expects future 3D NAND technologies to achieve 140 layers (up from today's leading 64-layer tech) by 2021. Increased numbers of layers will allow for increased die densities whilst keeping the same PCB real-estate and implementation area; at the same time, which is something the industry is craving for as data-sets only continue to increase in size. Before 2021 and its 140-layer NAND comes (which will require new fabrication materials), 90-layer solutions are expected to be launched this year, with a 20% decrease in layer height, down from its current 60 nm to 55 nm, which will allow for relatively stable stack heights, even as the number of layers increases significantly (by around 40% compared to 64-layer tech). Cheaper, more dense NAND tech - what isn't there to like?



View at TechPowerUp Main Site
 
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
2,074 (0.49/day)
Location
Jacksonhole Florida
System Name DEVIL'S ABYSS
Processor i7-4790K@4.6 GHz
Motherboard Asus Z97-Deluxe
Cooling Corsair H110 (2 x 140mm)(3 x 140mm case fans)
Memory 16GB Adata XPG V2 2400MHz
Video Card(s) EVGA 780 Ti Classified
Storage Intel 750 Series 400GB (AIC), Plextor M6e 256GB (M.2), 13 TB storage
Display(s) Crossover 27QW (27"@ 2560x1440)
Case Corsair Obsidian 750D Airflow
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1150
Power Supply Cooler Master V1000
Mouse Ttsports Talon Blu
Keyboard Logitech G510
Software Windows 10 Pro x64 version 1803
Benchmark Scores Passmark CPU score = 13080
I don't believe this. I am a founding member of The Flat SSD Society. Our mission is to prove that all NAND is 2D, and 3D NAND is a myth. You can keep your fake photos of layers, they're obviously photo-shopped. Join the fight against 3D SSDs!
 
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
1,151 (0.21/day)
Location
I live in Norway
Processor R9 5800x3d | R7 3900X | 4800H | 2x Xeon gold 6142
Motherboard Asrock X570M | AB350M Pro 4 | Asus Tuf A15
Cooling Air | Air | duh laptop
Memory 64gb G.skill SniperX @3600 CL16 | 128gb | 32GB | 192gb
Video Card(s) RTX 4080 |Quadro P5000 | RTX2060M
Storage Many drives
Display(s) M32Q,AOC 27" 144hz something.
Case Jonsbo D41
Power Supply Corsair RM850x
Mouse g502 Lightspeed
Keyboard G913 tkl
Software win11, proxmox
Benchmark Scores 33000FS, 16300 TS. Lappy, 7000 TS.
as hbm is essentially much the same so we should be seeing the same for gpu's eventually no?
 
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
13,210 (3.81/day)
Location
Sunshine Coast
System Name Black Box
Processor Intel Xeon E3-1260L v5
Motherboard MSI E3 KRAIT Gaming v5
Cooling Tt tower + 120mm Tt fan
Memory G.Skill 16GB 3600 C18
Video Card(s) Asus GTX 970 Mini
Storage Kingston A2000 512Gb NVME
Display(s) AOC 24" Freesync 1m.s. 75Hz
Case Corsair 450D High Air Flow.
Audio Device(s) No need.
Power Supply FSP Aurum 650W
Mouse Yes
Keyboard Of course
Software W10 Pro 64 bit
More layers equals more heat to dissipate.
 
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
8,929 (3.36/day)
System Name Good enough
Processor AMD Ryzen R9 7900 - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora Edge
Motherboard ASRock B650 Pro RS
Cooling 2x 360mm NexXxoS ST30 X-Flow, 1x 360mm NexXxoS ST30, 1x 240mm NexXxoS ST30
Memory 32GB - FURY Beast RGB 5600 Mhz
Video Card(s) Sapphire RX 7900 XT - Alphacool Eisblock Aurora
Storage 1x Kingston KC3000 1TB 1x Kingston A2000 1TB, 1x Samsung 850 EVO 250GB , 1x Samsung 860 EVO 500GB
Display(s) LG UltraGear 32GN650-B + 4K Samsung TV
Case Phanteks NV7
Power Supply GPS-750C
as hbm is essentially much the same so we should be seeing the same for gpu's eventually no?

You mean for GPU dies ? Probably not , it would be unfeasible because of heat dissipation.
 
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
1,151 (0.21/day)
Location
I live in Norway
Processor R9 5800x3d | R7 3900X | 4800H | 2x Xeon gold 6142
Motherboard Asrock X570M | AB350M Pro 4 | Asus Tuf A15
Cooling Air | Air | duh laptop
Memory 64gb G.skill SniperX @3600 CL16 | 128gb | 32GB | 192gb
Video Card(s) RTX 4080 |Quadro P5000 | RTX2060M
Storage Many drives
Display(s) M32Q,AOC 27" 144hz something.
Case Jonsbo D41
Power Supply Corsair RM850x
Mouse g502 Lightspeed
Keyboard G913 tkl
Software win11, proxmox
Benchmark Scores 33000FS, 16300 TS. Lappy, 7000 TS.
You mean for GPU dies ? Probably not , it would be unfeasible because of heat dissipation.

I meant if it's actually cost effective like they seem to indicate as well as space savings should the cost be simular for hbm was what I meant. :)
 
Joined
Sep 10, 2016
Messages
809 (0.29/day)
Location
Riverwood, Skyrim
System Name Storm Wrought | Blackwood (HTPC)
Processor AMD Ryzen 9 5900x @stock | i7 2600k
Motherboard Gigabyte X570 Aorus Pro WIFI m-ITX | Some POS gigabyte board
Cooling Deepcool AK620, BQ shadow wings 3 High Spd, stock 180mm |BQ Shadow rock LP + 4x120mm Noctua redux
Memory G.Skill Ripjaws V 2x32GB 4000MHz | 2x4GB 2000MHz @1866
Video Card(s) Powercolor RX 6800XT Red Dragon | PNY a2000 6GB
Storage SX8200 Pro 1TB, 1TB KC3000, 850EVO 500GB, 2+8TB Seagate, LG Blu-ray | 120GB Sandisk SSD, 4TB WD red
Display(s) Samsung UJ590UDE 32" UHD monitor | LG CS 55" OLED
Case Silverstone TJ08B-E | Custom built wooden case (Aus native timbers)
Audio Device(s) Onboard, Sennheiser HD 599 cans / Logitech z163's | Edifier S2000 MKIII via toslink
Power Supply Corsair HX 750 | Corsair SF 450
Mouse Microsoft Pro Intellimouse| Some logitech one
Keyboard GMMK w/ Zelio V2 62g (78g for spacebar) tactile switches & Glorious black keycaps| Some logitech one
VR HMD HTC Vive
Software Win 10 Edu | Ubuntu 22.04
Benchmark Scores Look in the various benchmark threads
So I guess it will be time to up the price by 140 times because we aren't making enough money per die vs planar NAND
 

silentbogo

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Nov 20, 2013
Messages
5,473 (1.44/day)
Location
Kyiv, Ukraine
System Name WS#1337
Processor Ryzen 7 3800X
Motherboard ASUS X570-PLUS TUF Gaming
Cooling Xigmatek Scylla 240mm AIO
Memory 4x8GB Samsung DDR4 ECC UDIMM
Video Card(s) Inno3D RTX 3070 Ti iChill
Storage ADATA Legend 2TB + ADATA SX8200 Pro 1TB
Display(s) Samsung U24E590D (4K/UHD)
Case ghetto CM Cosmos RC-1000
Audio Device(s) ALC1220
Power Supply SeaSonic SSR-550FX (80+ GOLD)
Mouse Logitech G603
Keyboard Modecom Volcano Blade (Kailh choc LP)
VR HMD Google dreamview headset(aka fancy cardboard)
Software Windows 11, Ubuntu 20.04 LTS
I don't believe this. I am a founding member of The Flat SSD Society. Our mission is to prove that all NAND is 2D, and 3D NAND is a myth. You can keep your fake photos of layers, they're obviously photo-shopped. Join the fight against 3D SSDs!
That just made my day. :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::roll::roll::roll:
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2011
Messages
165 (0.04/day)
So I guess it will be time to up the price by 140 times because we aren't making enough money per die vs planar NAND

Well, considering we already have 64-layer NAND, then 140-layer is a factor of 2.2, still I don't disagree with you

Actually curious of what the thermal profile is on a 140-layer NAND chip.
 
Joined
May 19, 2009
Messages
1,821 (0.33/day)
Location
Latvia
System Name Personal \\ Work - HP EliteBook 840 G6
Processor 7700X \\ i7-8565U
Motherboard Asrock X670E PG Lightning
Cooling Noctua DH-15
Memory G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Black 32GB 6000MHz CL36 \\ 16GB DDR4-2400
Video Card(s) ASUS RoG Strix 1070 Ti \\ Intel UHD Graphics 620
Storage 2x KC3000 2TB, Samsung 970 EVO 512GB \\ OEM 256GB NVMe SSD
Display(s) BenQ XL2411Z \\ FullHD + 2x HP Z24i external screens via docking station
Case Fractal Design Define Arc Midi R2 with window
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1150 with Logitech Z533
Power Supply Corsair AX860i
Mouse Logitech G502
Keyboard Corsair K55 RGB PRO
Software Windows 11 \\ Windows 10
More layers equals more heat to dissipate.

I somehow don't think that is going to be a big issue.
The capacity gains alone will be worth it.
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
20,912 (5.97/day)
Location
The Washing Machine
Processor i7 8700k 4.6Ghz @ 1.24V
Motherboard AsRock Fatal1ty K6 Z370
Cooling beQuiet! Dark Rock Pro 3
Memory 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200/C16
Video Card(s) ASRock RX7900XT Phantom Gaming
Storage Samsung 850 EVO 1TB + Samsung 830 256GB + Crucial BX100 250GB + Toshiba 1TB HDD
Display(s) Gigabyte G34QWC (3440x1440)
Case Fractal Design Define R5
Audio Device(s) Harman Kardon AVR137 + 2.1
Power Supply EVGA Supernova G2 750W
Mouse XTRFY M42
Keyboard Lenovo Thinkpad Trackpoint II
Software W10 x64
I don't believe this. I am a founding member of The Flat SSD Society. Our mission is to prove that all NAND is 2D, and 3D NAND is a myth. You can keep your fake photos of layers, they're obviously photo-shopped. Join the fight against 3D SSDs!

This needs to be in a sig
 
Top