• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

leaving powerstrip on all the time, is it safe?

Joined
Mar 21, 2021
Messages
4,282 (3.91/day)
Location
Colorado, U.S.A.
System Name HP Compaq 8000 Elite CMT
Processor Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550
Motherboard Hewlett-Packard 3647h
Memory 16GB DDR3
Video Card(s) Asus NVIDIA GeForce GT 1030 2GB GDDR5 (fan-less)
Storage 2TB Micron SATA SSD; 2TB Seagate Firecuda 3.5" HDD
Display(s) Dell P2416D (2560 x 1440)
Power Supply 12V HP proprietary
Software Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
That's really odd. Our electric blankets run fine on a 750VA APC stepped-approximated sinewave UPS.
That was the case for my old electric blanket (it worked on a stepped approximation UPS) till I needed to replace the controller.

My theory is that the blanket just uses the low part of the sine voltage (for safety), and without a sine wave the voltage may be dangerous.
 
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Messages
283 (0.06/day)
System Name Amazing Experience
Processor Intel Core i5 7500
Motherboard MSI H110M Pro-VD
Cooling Deepcool Alta 7 (CPU) | 2x 120mm RGB Case Fans (Rear and Front)
Memory Hynix 16GB (2x8) 2400Mhz (13-13-13-28)
Video Card(s) Zotac GTX 750 Ti 2GB GDDR5
Storage Crucial BX500 120GB; Seagate Barracuda 1TB+2TB; Dell 1TB Ext. HDD
Display(s) HP 22es
Case Ant Esports ICE-211TG
Audio Device(s) F&D A110 2.1 Stereo Speakers
Power Supply Circle 500 Watts APFC
Mouse Redragon M609
Keyboard TVS Gold Mechanical Keyboard (MX Blue, PS/2)
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
Me? I'm not the one contradicting myself!

FTR, bad power does not cause FB lag. You are the one who said that was a problem. This is just another area showing you really don't understand the issue. Bad power causes computers to suddenly freeze, reboot, shut down and/or failing to start. But not lag.

Do you know what a "short" in electronics means? I don't think so. The fact is, it is more likely such anomalies would cause a device to "open", not short.
sorry, mistakenly added "you", i was talking about myself. I feel a little disappointed that you ignored the rest of the post due to that slight mistake.

Anyway, i forgot to tell you that even my previous Ivy Bridge i7 3770 PC had FB lag and i thought upgrading to this 7th gen PC would fix, i mean how could so well running PC in all departments with proper stability have such specific issue on both of them. Extremely hard for me to understand or explain.

Yes, i am aware of that term but don't fully understand it. BTW, i wonder what you mean by open there, open circuit? well my brother also used to ask me the same question because i had no idea of what it actually is
 
Joined
Mar 21, 2021
Messages
4,282 (3.91/day)
Location
Colorado, U.S.A.
System Name HP Compaq 8000 Elite CMT
Processor Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550
Motherboard Hewlett-Packard 3647h
Memory 16GB DDR3
Video Card(s) Asus NVIDIA GeForce GT 1030 2GB GDDR5 (fan-less)
Storage 2TB Micron SATA SSD; 2TB Seagate Firecuda 3.5" HDD
Display(s) Dell P2416D (2560 x 1440)
Power Supply 12V HP proprietary
Software Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Messages
283 (0.06/day)
System Name Amazing Experience
Processor Intel Core i5 7500
Motherboard MSI H110M Pro-VD
Cooling Deepcool Alta 7 (CPU) | 2x 120mm RGB Case Fans (Rear and Front)
Memory Hynix 16GB (2x8) 2400Mhz (13-13-13-28)
Video Card(s) Zotac GTX 750 Ti 2GB GDDR5
Storage Crucial BX500 120GB; Seagate Barracuda 1TB+2TB; Dell 1TB Ext. HDD
Display(s) HP 22es
Case Ant Esports ICE-211TG
Audio Device(s) F&D A110 2.1 Stereo Speakers
Power Supply Circle 500 Watts APFC
Mouse Redragon M609
Keyboard TVS Gold Mechanical Keyboard (MX Blue, PS/2)
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
I didn't know what a power strip was so had to look it up.
Here in the UK it's called an extension socket or socket extender. Get into the habit of turning off everything off when not in use and save youself some money in the process. Even those little standby lights will cost you while you sleep.
electricity is cheap in India and even when you use a decent efficient ryzen cpu like 5600x instead of something like i9 11900k you barely save couple of bucks a month from what i have read in youtube comments
 
Joined
Mar 21, 2021
Messages
4,282 (3.91/day)
Location
Colorado, U.S.A.
System Name HP Compaq 8000 Elite CMT
Processor Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550
Motherboard Hewlett-Packard 3647h
Memory 16GB DDR3
Video Card(s) Asus NVIDIA GeForce GT 1030 2GB GDDR5 (fan-less)
Storage 2TB Micron SATA SSD; 2TB Seagate Firecuda 3.5" HDD
Display(s) Dell P2416D (2560 x 1440)
Power Supply 12V HP proprietary
Software Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
electricity is cheap in India and even when you use a decent efficient ryzen cpu like 5600x instead of something like i9 11900k you barely save couple of bucks a month from what i have read in youtube comments
What is the cost per KW Hr?

Out here 100W costs about $100 a year (if run 24/7)
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Messages
283 (0.06/day)
System Name Amazing Experience
Processor Intel Core i5 7500
Motherboard MSI H110M Pro-VD
Cooling Deepcool Alta 7 (CPU) | 2x 120mm RGB Case Fans (Rear and Front)
Memory Hynix 16GB (2x8) 2400Mhz (13-13-13-28)
Video Card(s) Zotac GTX 750 Ti 2GB GDDR5
Storage Crucial BX500 120GB; Seagate Barracuda 1TB+2TB; Dell 1TB Ext. HDD
Display(s) HP 22es
Case Ant Esports ICE-211TG
Audio Device(s) F&D A110 2.1 Stereo Speakers
Power Supply Circle 500 Watts APFC
Mouse Redragon M609
Keyboard TVS Gold Mechanical Keyboard (MX Blue, PS/2)
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
What is the cost per KW Hr?

Out here 100W costs $100 a year (if run 24/7)
idk, but iirc it was 8 rupees per unit, atleast several years ago, might be a little more expensive now
 
Joined
Mar 21, 2021
Messages
4,282 (3.91/day)
Location
Colorado, U.S.A.
System Name HP Compaq 8000 Elite CMT
Processor Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550
Motherboard Hewlett-Packard 3647h
Memory 16GB DDR3
Video Card(s) Asus NVIDIA GeForce GT 1030 2GB GDDR5 (fan-less)
Storage 2TB Micron SATA SSD; 2TB Seagate Firecuda 3.5" HDD
Display(s) Dell P2416D (2560 x 1440)
Power Supply 12V HP proprietary
Software Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
idk, but iirc it was 8 rupees per unit, atleast several years ago, might be a little more expensive now
About the same as out here, so the calculation holds

100W costs about $100 a year (if run 24/7)
 
Last edited:
Joined
May 15, 2020
Messages
578 (0.41/day)
electricity is cheap in India and even when you use a decent efficient ryzen cpu like 5600x instead of something like i9 11900k you barely save couple of bucks a month from what i have read in youtube comments
Fair play.
 
Joined
Jul 25, 2006
Messages
11,955 (1.85/day)
Location
Nebraska, USA
System Name Brightworks Systems BWS-6 E-IV
Processor Intel Core i5-6600 @ 3.9GHz
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-Z170-HD3 Rev 1.0
Cooling Quality case, 2 x Fractal Design 140mm fans, stock CPU HSF
Memory 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4 3000 Corsair Vengeance
Video Card(s) EVGA GEForce GTX 1050Ti 4Gb GDDR5
Storage Samsung 850 Pro 256GB SSD, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB SSD
Display(s) Samsung S24E650BW LED x 2
Case Fractal Design Define R4
Power Supply EVGA Supernova 550W G2 Gold
Mouse Logitech M190
Keyboard Microsoft Wireless Comfort 5050
Software W10 Pro 64-bit
This guy was really lucky... or unlucky
Try 7 times!

Park ranger and Guinness World Records holder Roy Sullivan hit by lightning 7 times - and lived! Sadly, people avoided being around him for fear they would be struck. This loneliness is said to have let to severe depression to the point he ended up taking his own life. :(

sorry, mistakenly added "you", i was talking about myself. I feel a little disappointed that you ignored the rest of the post due to that slight mistake.
Thanks for clarifying the mistake about bipolar, but gee whiz! I didn't ignore the rest at all - though I did think you were being sarcastic. But note I commented how bad power does not cause lags and pointed out how damage from such anomalies typically cause "opens" not "shorts".
 
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
Messages
531 (0.08/day)
Location
West Bend, Wisconsin
System Name DELL Inspiron 5400 AIO / HP 17 ca1065cl
Processor 11th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-1165G7 @ 2.80GHz / Ryzen 5 3500u
Memory 16GB /12GB
Video Card(s) NVIDIA MX 330 / Radeon Vega 8
Storage 1TB +SSD
Display(s) 23.8 inch touch screen 17.3 touch screen
Case DELL AIO / HP LAPTOP
Mouse Dell Wireless /LOGITECH
Keyboard Dell Wireless / HP LAPTOP
Software WINDOWS 11
I always have my power strip on .
 
Joined
Jul 13, 2016
Messages
2,763 (0.98/day)
Processor Ryzen 7800X3D
Motherboard ASRock X670E Taichi
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 Chromax
Memory 32GB DDR5 6000 CL30
Video Card(s) MSI RTX 4090 Trio
Storage Too much
Display(s) Acer Predator XB3 27" 240 Hz
Case Thermaltake Core X9
Audio Device(s) Topping DX5, DCA Aeon II
Power Supply Seasonic Prime Titanium 850w
Mouse G305
Keyboard Wooting HE60
VR HMD Valve Index
Software Win 10
LOL

That's great. I hope you never do. But do not assume because you never experienced anything like that, that no one else has, or that you never will. It simply wrong for you to assume that.

I've never seen a volcano erupt. Does that mean they don't? Fact is, there are over 3 dozens eruptions going on this very minute!

I live in Tornado Alley. Severe weather is not uncommon. I have seen many power outages in new neighborhoods as well as old.

But as I keep saying, it is not about power outages that make a good UPS so valuable.

So no. I am not overcomplicating things. It is you who are over-simplifying things. :(

If you don't want to use a UPS, that's fine. Its your hardware and your data. But it is wrong of you to suggest others don't need one just because you feel you don't.

I hope you have a current backup.

Hope the ext hdd is not plugged in all the time...
Only plug it when you are perfoming a backup.

Otherwise a lightning strike or an infection can take your backup along with your main machine.

If all you are looking for is protection and power conditioning, this unit is designed for exactly that https://furmanpower.com/product/15a-8-outlet-surge-suppressor-strip-w-smp-lift-and-evs/

It uses SMPs, not sacrifical MOVs that power strips and UPS use. SMPs are non-sacrificial, meaning they don't degrade or wear out when used. They also activate faster. Any MOV based device is going to let a portion of the surge through. SMPs are going to activate quick, preventing a larger portion of the surge.

Most important of all is that the unit is designed to prevent extreme voltages from reaching your equipment entirely. Typical MOV based units have a maximum suppression value rated in Joules. The linked unit does not have a maximum protection value because it is designed to entirely prevent it from reaching your equipment. I believe this video demonstrates this best, where they run the unit through a 6,000 volt surge:

If anything you should be running your UPS off the linked power strip. The only thing the UPS should be doing is what's stated in it's name, providing power when the main is out.
 
Joined
Mar 21, 2021
Messages
4,282 (3.91/day)
Location
Colorado, U.S.A.
System Name HP Compaq 8000 Elite CMT
Processor Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550
Motherboard Hewlett-Packard 3647h
Memory 16GB DDR3
Video Card(s) Asus NVIDIA GeForce GT 1030 2GB GDDR5 (fan-less)
Storage 2TB Micron SATA SSD; 2TB Seagate Firecuda 3.5" HDD
Display(s) Dell P2416D (2560 x 1440)
Power Supply 12V HP proprietary
Software Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
I hate the Furman as it does not use the ground, so would miss a common mode surge.

They also seem to use MOVs
15A 8 Outlet Surge Suppressor Strip w/SMP, LiFT and EVS | Furman Power
"The PST-8 all feature Furman’s SMP circuit which incorporates Linear Filtering Technology (LiFT) and a high current TVZ-MOV..."


One thing I like about the TrippLite isobar is impedance mismatch: rather than try to absorb all the energy with MOVs it reflects a good proportion of the incoming spike back out; I suspect the Furman does the same.


It is late and I am tired, so it is quite possible I have some of the above details wrong.
 

Attachments

  • TrippLite.jpg
    TrippLite.jpg
    99.2 KB · Views: 26
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 25, 2006
Messages
11,955 (1.85/day)
Location
Nebraska, USA
System Name Brightworks Systems BWS-6 E-IV
Processor Intel Core i5-6600 @ 3.9GHz
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-Z170-HD3 Rev 1.0
Cooling Quality case, 2 x Fractal Design 140mm fans, stock CPU HSF
Memory 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4 3000 Corsair Vengeance
Video Card(s) EVGA GEForce GTX 1050Ti 4Gb GDDR5
Storage Samsung 850 Pro 256GB SSD, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB SSD
Display(s) Samsung S24E650BW LED x 2
Case Fractal Design Define R4
Power Supply EVGA Supernova 550W G2 Gold
Mouse Logitech M190
Keyboard Microsoft Wireless Comfort 5050
Software W10 Pro 64-bit
If anything you should be running your UPS off the linked power strip.
Ummm, if you read the precautions for most UPS, many will tell you to never plug a surge and spike protector into a UPS, and to never plug a UPS into a surge and spike protector. The AVR circuits may see the power coming from a surge and spike protector as "dirty". And if on the output side, the AVR circuits may see the load as unstable. While this typically does not result in any damage, it may result in the UPS kicking over to battery power frequently and unnecessarily (decreasing battery life) or it may cause the UPS to shutdown output to protect the connected equipment - potentially causing data corruption.

So before using any surge and spike protector with you UPS, read your UPS user guide first.
The only thing the UPS should be doing is what's stated in it's name, providing power when the main is out.
Ummm, totally disagree. Backup power when the mains is out is just a minor secondary function of a good UPS with AVR. It is the AVR feature of a quality UPS that matters most.

I agree your Furman strip is better than a basic surge and spike protector but it is still little more than a fancy and expensive extension cord. This is because the Furman does absolutely nothing for low voltage events like dips (opposite of spikes), sags (opposite of surges) or brownouts (long duration sags) that can cause a computer to crash. And for excessive surges and spikes, it simply shuts off power (IF working properly), crashing your computer - never good. In fact, your Furman even advertises that feature they call the "Extreme Voltage Shutdown" circuit as a good thing! Where if the line voltage hits 137VAC or higher, it kills power to your computer. That's not good! At least not for computers.

A quality UPS with AVR will "regulate" the voltages, attenuating where necessary but boosting where necessary too. And if the voltage is excessive, instead of killing power to your computer (potentially corrupting your drives and all your data), the UPS will simply kick over to battery power.

Now if you buy a very basic, cheap UPS that does NOT have AVR (which I do NOT recommend for your sensitive, expensive electronics), then you may want to connect the Furman on the output side of the UPS. This is because a very basic, cheap UPS typically just passes the AC through and only "activates" when the AC input is lost.

Using surge strips with APC's Back-UPS and Smart-UPS products.
 
Joined
Jul 13, 2016
Messages
2,763 (0.98/day)
Processor Ryzen 7800X3D
Motherboard ASRock X670E Taichi
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 Chromax
Memory 32GB DDR5 6000 CL30
Video Card(s) MSI RTX 4090 Trio
Storage Too much
Display(s) Acer Predator XB3 27" 240 Hz
Case Thermaltake Core X9
Audio Device(s) Topping DX5, DCA Aeon II
Power Supply Seasonic Prime Titanium 850w
Mouse G305
Keyboard Wooting HE60
VR HMD Valve Index
Software Win 10
Ummm, if you read the precautions for most UPS, many will tell you to never plug a surge and spike protector into a UPS, and to never plug a UPS into a surge and spike protector. The AVR circuits may see the power coming from a surge and spike protector as "dirty". And if on the output side, the AVR circuits may see the load as unstable. While this typically does not result in any damage, it may result in the UPS kicking over to battery power frequently and unnecessarily (decreasing battery life) or it may cause the UPS to shutdown output to protect the connected equipment - potentially causing data corruption.

So before using any surge and spike protector with you UPS, read your UPS user guide first.

Now if you buy a very basic, cheap UPS that does NOT have AVR (which I do NOT recommend for your sensitive, expensive electronics), then you may want to connect the Furman on the output side of the UPS. This is because a very basic, cheap UPS typically just passes the AC through and only "activates" when the AC input is lost.

You more or less answered your own question, in that you purchase a UPS without electronics trying to allocate and measure load. Waste of money IMO.

1620245093367.png


That 354 surge protection joules rating on a $150 unit is really going to protect anything? Budget power strips have more protection then that. Even at $250 you are only getting 1080 joules of protection. The Furman product I linked is VASTLY superior when it comes to protecting your PC from destructive power events.

I agree your Furman strip is better than a basic surge and spike protector but it is still little more than a fancy and expensive extension cord. This is because the Furman does absolutely nothing for low voltage events like dips (opposite of spikes), sags (opposite of surges) or brownouts (long duration sags) that can cause a computer to crash. And for excessive surges and spikes, it simply shuts off power (IF working properly), crashing your computer - never good. In fact, your Furman even advertises that feature they call the "Extreme Voltage Shutdown" circuit as a good thing! Where if the line voltage hits 137VAC or higher, it kills power to your computer. That's not good! At least not for computers.

A quality UPS with AVR will "regulate" the voltages, attenuating where necessary but boosting where necessary too. And if the voltage is excessive, instead of killing power to your computer (potentially corrupting your drives and all your data), the UPS will simply kick over to battery power.

Using surge strips with APC's Back-UPS and Smart-UPS products.

I've had one for about 5 years and haven't had a shutdown once. But yeah, it'll actually protect your PC whereas the UPS will not nor is it designed to.

You are buying a UPS for continued operation during power events, not for protection. That is pretty apparent from any breakdown you may read on them: https://www.tomshardware.com/picturestory/737-apc-br1000g-back-ups-tear-down-5.html

The surge protection elements are absolutely not designed to prevent anything remotely significant. Most budget power strips have equal or better surge protection. I don't really see the point of advertising voltage regulation either. A majority of the voltage range a UPC can regulate a PSU can already regulate. For any serious power event (with low or high voltages), the UPC isn't going to be much help either. To boot it's not going to protect anything from damage during those events either.
 
Joined
Mar 21, 2021
Messages
4,282 (3.91/day)
Location
Colorado, U.S.A.
System Name HP Compaq 8000 Elite CMT
Processor Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550
Motherboard Hewlett-Packard 3647h
Memory 16GB DDR3
Video Card(s) Asus NVIDIA GeForce GT 1030 2GB GDDR5 (fan-less)
Storage 2TB Micron SATA SSD; 2TB Seagate Firecuda 3.5" HDD
Display(s) Dell P2416D (2560 x 1440)
Power Supply 12V HP proprietary
Software Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
Modern PC power supplies are quite tolerant to their input voltage and so might not have a need for an AVR; then again a UPS with AVR is rather important so the battery does not have to keep kicking in.
 
Joined
Jul 25, 2006
Messages
11,955 (1.85/day)
Location
Nebraska, USA
System Name Brightworks Systems BWS-6 E-IV
Processor Intel Core i5-6600 @ 3.9GHz
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-Z170-HD3 Rev 1.0
Cooling Quality case, 2 x Fractal Design 140mm fans, stock CPU HSF
Memory 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4 3000 Corsair Vengeance
Video Card(s) EVGA GEForce GTX 1050Ti 4Gb GDDR5
Storage Samsung 850 Pro 256GB SSD, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB SSD
Display(s) Samsung S24E650BW LED x 2
Case Fractal Design Define R4
Power Supply EVGA Supernova 550W G2 Gold
Mouse Logitech M190
Keyboard Microsoft Wireless Comfort 5050
Software W10 Pro 64-bit
You more or less answered your own question, in that you purchase a UPS without electronics trying to allocate and measure load.
What? Bullfeathers!

First, I didn't ask a question! I made a statement of fact. And second, you size a UPS with AVR based on the maximum load the UPS will encounter from all the connected devices and that gives you the minimum size UPS to get. You can always go much bigger for longer run times.
That 354 surge protection joules rating on a $150 unit is really going to protect anything?
Ummm no. Now I understand your confusion.

Sorry but you don't understand the function of a UPS with AVR! You don't compare the joules rating of a UPS with that of a surge and spike protector. Why? Because a UPS with AVR is an "intelligent" device and it is NOT designed to absorb and dissipate excessive voltages like a surge and spike protector does. You are right that a quality surge and spike protector would have a joule rating MUCH MUCH higher than 354 joules. A surge and spike protector should be rated into the several 1000s! Not necessary with a good UPS with AVR.

And it appears you don't understand the difference between a UPS and a UPS with AVR. For computers systems, you buy a UPS with AVR. NOT a criticism - just an observation about a common misconception about UPS with AVR vs surge and spike protectors.

You are buying a UPS for continued operation during power events, not for protection.
NO!!! You can keep saying that but it is still wrong!

For my garage door opener and outdoor security lights, as examples, you would be right. For them, a "basic" uninterruptible power supply (UPS) or "battery backup" is fine. But for computers, home theater audio equipment and other sensitive electronics, you buy a USP with AVR for protection from power anomalies, as well as for its automatic voltage regulation - or "conditioning". As I noted above, backup power is just a minor bonus feature. It IS the AVR that matters most.
Modern PC power supplies are quite tolerant to their input voltage and so might not have a need for an AVR

Yes and no. They are quite tolerant from "normal" (i.e., minor) surges and spikes typically seen many times each day. But not big surges and spikes. Those may not take out the PSU, but constant banging ages electronics. And if excessive, it surely can damage the PSU. The ATX From Factor requires all ATX PSUs designed for 115VAC operation to maintain proper DC output with AC in from 90VAC to 135VAC. Above that could damage the PSU, below and the PSU "should", I say "should" shut down.

No surge and spike protector, include the Furman can adjust for such low voltage events. But an UPS can. Same if the input voltage increases above that 135VAC threshold - which could happen if the transformer feeding your home malfunctioned as recently happened to me.
Then again a UPS with AVR is rather important so the battery does not have to keep kicking in.
^^^^THIS^^^^ The AVR again is an intelligent features that regulates or conditions the voltage when it deviates, if it can. If the deviation crosses designated thresholds, it cutover to battery.

And again, we are not just talking about "protecting" the computer PSU. A properly sized UPS with AVR will also "protect" our monitors and all our network gear too.
 
Last edited:
Top