Major Intel CPU Hardware Vulnerability Found

Vya Domus · Jan 3, 2018

Blo3der-Kuh said:
Have you read the offical statement from Intel yet?

I am not sure what to make of it, this is probably the most interesting part:

It's just a bit of damage control on their part. They are insinuating there are similar vulnerabilities in many other processors but they aren't referring to this one in particular, which might very well be true.

biffzinker · Jan 3, 2018

Vya Domus said:
It's just a bit of damage control on their part.

I read it more as deflect the attention away from Intel, and claim other companies are at fault.

EarthDog · Jan 3, 2018

Some testing in linux... not sure how that translate to windows though. Seems like the testing up top is brutal. Good news for most tpu readers that the consumer loads, encoding and compiling, didnt show a difference.
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=linux-415-x86pti&num=2

There's also a link at the bottom showing zero difference in games.

Again... not sure how this translates to windows... that top part is rough though. DC and cloud providers are going to take a beating.

Intel also responded, saw this in another thread here, and said there are a lot of rumors out as far as performance hits go, it will be fixed, and improvements to performance will happen over time.

OfficerTux · Jan 3, 2018

Computer Base also has some Windows tests done using a Win10 Insider Preview which has the fix enabled.

Full article here in German, charts below. Graphics card used for AC: Origins was a GTX 1080 Ti.

Performance loss is only marginal in most cases, M.2 SSD performance does take quite a hit though. The loss in AC: Origins is at least measurable (~3%), but only when the CPU is bottlenecking (low details, high FPS).

EarthDog · Jan 3, 2018

From twitter... ARM is affected.

Intel saying its nkt an arch flaw but a side attack, w/e that means...

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/948654425824022530

From google...
https://security.googleblog.com/2018/01/todays-cpu-vulnerability-what-you-need.html?m=1

A takeaway...."To take advantage of this vulnerability, an attacker first must be able to run malicious code on the targeted system."

Need to be able to fet in the front door before you can steal from the bedroom it appears..

Vya Domus · Jan 3, 2018

Speculative execution always came with this concern/vulnerability. I do not think this is the exact same issue Intel is dealing with.

EarthDog · Jan 3, 2018

Why do you think that? Google said...

"We are posting before an originally coordinated disclosure date of January 9, 2018 because of existing public reports and growing speculation in the press and security research community about the issue, which raises the risk of exploitation. The full Project Zero report is forthcoming."

Maybe this intel thing is pushing something unrelated under the rug as i havent seen any other major issue which would cause an announcement to move up by 4 days. They do say "the issue" immediately after 'existing public reports' and 'growing speculation by media'....

R-T-B · Jan 3, 2018

If there is an ARM issue, I wonder if the AMD PSP is vulnerable, being it is ARM based...

Vya Domus · Jan 3, 2018

EarthDog said:
Why do you think that?

ARM is fundamentally different from X86_64 ? They also mention how only certain high end processors have this vulnerability , talking probably about cores such as the A72 which have out-of-order execution and dynamic branch predictor. Their problem seems related more to that particular aspect rather than anything else.

Their statement is as cryptic and vague as expected.

notb · Jan 3, 2018

Blo3der-Kuh said:
Computer Base also has some Windows tests done using a Win10 Insider Preview which has the fix enabled.

Full article here in German, charts below.

If true, I can live with that.

Waiting for the final update and results on servers.

R-T-B said:
If there is an ARM issue, I wonder if the AMD PSP is vulnerable, being it is ARM based...

Even if, is there any security risk at all? Putting a theoretical gov backdoor aside, I don't think you can access PSP from the OS level. Plus, PSP can access the whole RAM by design, so it's not like this flaw would change much.

R-T-B · Jan 3, 2018

Vya Domus said:
ARM is fundamentally different from X86_64 ?

Not really when talking about concepts like rings, virtualization, and page tables. They are quite similar there. It would not surprise me if ARM holdings back in the day licensed vt-d from intel...

Vya Domus · Jan 3, 2018

Yes but my point was from what they said it seems related to other aspects. Maybe I am just looking too much into it and it really is the same issue.

OfficerTux · Jan 3, 2018

So Google has just published their research on the matter. Actually there are three kinds of problems which were identified:

Variant 1: bounds check bypass
Variant 2: branch target injection
Variant 3: rogue data cache load

Variant 3 is called Meltdown, while 1 and 2 are called Spectre.

From what I have read so far AMD processors actually are save at least for Variant 3 which is the one the Linux and Windows Kernels are getting patched for with PTI (page table isolation).

Variant 1 seems to be a problem for all Vendors, but is already fixed or easily fixed by OS updates with negligible performance impact.

Variant 2 seems to be the biggest problem and will need some time to get fixed, although AMD claims they are not affected according to this post by Ryan Shrout.

Edit: Some more information on the bugs called Meltdown and Spectre.

IceScreamer · Jan 3, 2018

Apparenty, the guys who wrote this paper, https://spectreattack.com/spectre.pdf , also found that AMD chips are affected, to a degree.
Though, they talk about different types of attacks, Spectre and Meltdown. From what I've gathered, Meltdown is the "big" one and it affects Intel only, Spectre affects all.
Someone more knowledgeable, or with better reading comprehension can/will learn more.

EDIT: This appears to be a similar research to the one @Blo3der-Kuh posted.

Frag_Maniac · Jan 3, 2018

As far as I can tell, the only way this will affect my plans of an 8700k is positively. AMD will likely get some needed sales back, which may force Intel to be more competitive on pricing. I've already noticed a recent drop in price from $405 to $390 at Newegg on the 8700k.

Performance wise I see this as a non issue on the latest CPUs, especially with balanced hardware spec. I'm actually more concerned about cell phone security, since I finally bit the bullet and decided to get one. Yeah I'm a retro grouch about some things, sue me.

OfficerTux · Jan 4, 2018

Frag Maniac said:
I'm actually more concerned about cell phone security

Yes, this is probably the biggest problem. According to Google you are safe when you are running Android with the January 2018 security patches installed. I hope Sony keeps up the pace with their updates for my XZ

Zyll Goliat · Jan 4, 2018

LATEST NEWS!!! https://www.onmsft.com/news/microso...ddress-intel-amd-processors-security-concerns

EarthDog · Jan 4, 2018

Moar....

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/948717216689807360

From amd...
https://www.amd.com/en/corporate/speculative-execution

MS Azure.. no impact... shocked about that...
https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/securing-azure-customers-from-cpu-vulnerability/

R-T-B · Jan 4, 2018

EarthDog said:
Moar....

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/948717216689807360

From amd...
https://www.amd.com/en/corporate/speculative-execution

MS Azure.. no impact... shocked about that...
https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/securing-azure-customers-from-cpu-vulnerability/

Interesting. All I ever saw demonstrated via high syscalls was a DoS attack that caused the machine to reboot...

notb · Jan 4, 2018

EarthDog said:
Moar....

From amd...
https://www.amd.com/en/corporate/speculative-execution

MS Azure.. no impact... shocked about that...
https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/securing-azure-customers-from-cpu-vulnerability/

So who exchanged Intel's for AMD's stocks today?

EarthDog · Jan 4, 2018

People panicking and clueless? Not sure.

boise49ers · Jan 4, 2018

I wouldn't scream AMD is better, because obviously it isn't for many reasons. Cheaper? Yes and I use my for gaming and does just fine for that. I don't run tests on speed of overclocking abilities or any of that crap. But what I use it for it handles perfect. Gaming and video editing mostly, oh and Internet of course.

Solaris17 · Jan 4, 2018

EarthDog said:
People panicking and clueless? Not sure.

Guess you could say they were having a metldown

FireFox · Jan 4, 2018

it seems that Intel has ruined AMD's Party :rolleyes:

cakehunter · Jan 4, 2018

About spectre 1 and BPF JIT

https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2018/01/reading-privileged-memory-with-side.html

You can look in linux kernel documentatio what it is:
(IMO, not that useful stuff, like GRUB command line or kernel root console #)

https://www.mjmwired.net/kernel/Documentation/sysctl/net.txt

proc/sys/net/core - Network core options

bpf_jit_enable

This enables the BPF Just in Time (JIT) compiler. BPF is a flexible
and efficient infrastructure allowing to execute bytecode at various
hook points. It is used in a number of Linux kernel subsystems such
as networking (e.g. XDP, tc), tracing (e.g. kprobes, uprobes, tracepoints)
and security (e.g. seccomp). LLVM has a BPF back end that can compile
restricted C into a sequence of BPF instructions. After program load
through bpf(2) and passing a verifier in the kernel, a JIT will then
translate these BPF proglets into native CPU instructions. There are
two flavors of JITs, the newer eBPF JIT currently supported on:

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Major Intel CPU Hardware Vulnerability Found

Vya Domus

biffzinker

EarthDog

OfficerTux

EarthDog

Vya Domus

EarthDog

R-T-B

Vya Domus

notb

R-T-B

Vya Domus

OfficerTux

IceScreamer

Frag_Maniac

OfficerTux

Zyll Goliat

EarthDog

R-T-B

notb

EarthDog

boise49ers

Solaris17

Super Dainty Moderator

FireFox

The Power Of Intel

cakehunter

New Member

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