Microsoft MUST provide Windows 10 updates for at least another 10 years

[gurusmi]

Microsoft is NOT trying to learn our real names, billing information, social security numbers, contacts, etc.

If you are so worried about spyware and telemetry, you should be whining and crying about your ISP, Facebook, TiKTok, Google, and Instagram. And you should be especially concerned about your cell phone carrier as they not only know everything you do on your phone, they know who you talked to, who you texted, where you are standing, where you have been, the direction you are heading and how fast you are going - AND they have tied that to your real name, real address and your billing information too.

M$ does not try to learn. They already have it. I give a f*cking Sh*t on what M$ wants to have. I decided to switch to Linux. The first tests are quite positive. M$ will be installed at a service partition. But not allowed to access the internet.

Btw. From your list i only use my ISP. And they are underlying to the applicable european laws.

My cell phone carrier doesn't know too much from me. I own a cell phone but i don't use it much. I also don't carry it with me whilst i'm out of my house. Mobile Internet is permanently switched off. Internet is only available when at my home WLAN.

I'm still protecting my privacy like 30 years ago. And i take care about my privacy. I don see any reason for social media as the is the real life outside of my appartment. If i want to let a friend know what i eat or where i am i tell him personally. No need to make pictures or (ab)use social media.

 

[erocker]

I find the idea of governments forcing businesses into labor (creating, maintaining, etc.) is wrong. If governments actually wanted to do their jobs they would split up Microsoft's monopoly.

 

[Dr. Dro]

We have a Kyocera laser MFP at work. The printer has seen exactly one original Kyocera toner cartridge in its 5+ year life. All the others are third-party refills with no money going back to Kyocera, same deal with the HP printer in the back office.

It's weird how printer companies work, at this point I'm convinced it's mostly HP that's become obsessed with genuine supplies and enforces that to the point of extortion. I tried purchasing an original Xerox type 106R02773 toner for my Phaser 3020 mono laser printer - didn't mind paying more for them either, since I do not print a lot and it's always documents and text. I'm fairly sure Xerox no longer makes them, as they've been permanently out of stock ever since I purchased my printer.

A 1500-page "counterfeit" toner that prints all the same cost me 30 bucks each (about $7.50 USD) - and lasts me over a year each

 

[lexluthermiester]

I find the idea of governments forcing businesses into labor (creating, maintaining, etc.) is wrong. If governments actually wanted to do their jobs they would split up Microsoft's monopoly.

Companies do that under contract all the time. Whether it's contract terms or legal code really doesn't matter much.

 

[Bill_Bright]

M$ does not try to learn. They already have it.

No they don't! Come on, dude! Do you homework. How would Microsoft know your real name, unless you gave it to them? Did you? I sure didn't give them mine.

All they know of me is my email address. And because I connect to my network via Ethernet, all they know of my physical location is my PoP (point of presence) - the point were my ISP connects me to the Internet backbone - and in my case, that is 8 miles across town.

My cell phone carrier doesn't know too much from me.

Bullfeathers! Assuming the account with your carrier is in your name, they know your real name, your street/mailing address, and your billing information. If you purchased the phone through them on a payment plan, they also know your very personal credit information. Sure, if you keep it turned off or disable cell service, they can't learn more during that time, but not sure why even have a cell phone then. But that's none of my business.

As far as all your other precautions, great! And I especially agree with you about telling everyone what I ate for dinner last night - though personally, that's none of their damn business.

they would split up Microsoft's monopoly.

Just what monopoly do you think Microsoft has? We are fully able to install alternative operating systems on our computers. We are fully able to install alternative office suites on our computers. We can install alternative browsers, alternative security, alternative calculators, calendars, defraggers in Windows and in those alternative operating systems.

We can use Sony Playstations.

Sure, MS wants us to use Office 365, but we don't have to. I sure don't. So just how do you think MS should be divided?

 

[Jetster]

The US or EU governments should force Microsoft to provide Windows 10 updates for at least another 10 years.

When Microsoft stops providing Windows 10 security updates, millions of computers will turn into toxic waste overnight.

And the people most affected will be the poorest, who don't have enough money to buy a new computer with the hardware requirements for Windows 11.

They must realize that there is no Planet B for us.

This is too much greed and indifference on Microsoft's part, and too much shame for MS, when it ends support for Windows 10 in 2025.

I hope greed doesn't win and that Microsoft continues to release updates for Windows 10 until at least 2035.

Look at Apple, wishful thinking
"And millions of PC will not turn into toxic waste overnight". It will take years as usual

 

[Shrek]

I've heard it said that Auto manufacturers are required by US Federal Law to have parts available for any models they sold for the period of 10 years (not sure if this is true or not)

But even if so, they are not required to supply them for free.

 

[arbiter]

Only way MS would be forced to continue win10 life is be EU law forcing them since that move really creates a lot of e-waste. Our company has to get rid of all win10 computers that dont support win11 due to cybersecurity that partner companies demand from us.

Thing is most pc's that don't support 11 is only cause TPM, but very likely the board has a header for TPM module which are very cheap. My old 4770k z87 board i could got TPM module for 20$ off newegg. pretty sure most companies if they buying a ton could get them for half that price and it would make machines good for 11.

Even then a way around for MS would be just push win11 update that makes TPM optional boom no reason EU can force them.

 

[95Viper]

And, I quote myself:

Stick to the topic.
Stop the insulting posts.
Be civil.

Anymore BS and I will issue points, thread bans, or greater.
And, if the topic is not adhered to... this thread will be locked.

 

[gurusmi]

No they don't! Come on, dude! Do you homework. How would Microsoft know your real name, unless you gave it to them? Did you? I sure didn't give them mine.

All they know of me is my email address. And because I connect to my network via Ethernet, all they know of my physical location is my PoP (point of presence) - the point were my ISP connects me to the Internet backbone - and in my case, that is 8 miles across town.


Bullfeathers! Assuming the account with your carrier is in your name, they know your real name, your street/mailing address, and your billing information. If you purchased the phone through them on a payment plan, they also know your very personal credit information. Sure, if you keep it turned off or disable cell service, they can't learn more during that time, but not sure why even have a cell phone then. But that's none of my business.

1. Afaik M$ charges everyone to create an account at M$-Live to register i.e. M$ Office Pro, M$ Visio Pro, M$ Project Pro, M$ Windows,... Otherwise one cannot use that software any longer than 30 days. One also needs an account if he needs something from the M$ Store. So it is more or less guaranteed that M$ knows your real name, living address etc. I use my systems purely professional. And i get p.o. if some software has to run with windows. That is a real pure mess. I checked all my programs if they are able to run on linux. there are only a few apps (AquaSuite, 3D scanner software,...) that cannot. And those ones will have to run on my windows service partition.

2. I bought my cell phone and paid the whole price at once from a small store. No Credit, no leasing, no provider offer. I paid cash. Even google don't know exactly, where i'm living. The reason is easy. Whilst i had to create that GoogleAccount i did live in swiss. I was never able to switch (the GoogleStore) towards germany. So i still use a german phone connected to a swiss google account.

3. I would suggest you to stop enjoying your paranoia and start using your common sense. Everybody where you buy/order something holds your data. Especially if it gests more expensive and a invoice has to be written or the goods have to be delivered. As i use to pay cash the companies don't have my credit information that often. I own a credit card that i didn't use within the last 6 years. I want to buy a vacuum cleaner with an integrated mop. I won't buy any chinese brand. I avoid to buy a brand where i have to connect the device to the WLan/Internet anyway. Even my whashmachine/dryer wants to get connected. I didn't allow that. I really don't see any important reason why china's government should know anything about my apartment or the usage of that device. Therefor i have three or for LED's showing the status instead of a big BlingBling display.

4. I own my cell phone for emergency reasons. I own a Motorola Razr android phone and a small Nokia 2720 Flip with KaiOS. Nevertheless in europe one has to provide his address data, reeal name etc to the provider. No matter if a contract or prepaid. That is a law (at least within germany). The navigation app inside my Android device is a offline one. I don't see any reason to tell Google, where i live, where i am and on which way and how long it took me to get there.

 

[AusWolf]

So yeah, you want your "fricken rules" - clearly. And when you can't have them, a temper tantrum will ensue.

Are you implying that wanting to choose "one's fricken rules" on one's fricken PC is wrong just because that's the direction Microsoft is going in? So basically any kind of bullshit Microsoft comes up with, we should just shrug saying "eh, that's the way it is" and swallow it?

 

[mclaren85]

I want the same privilege for XP too. The most sturdy operating system ever.

 

[chrcoluk]

To be fair I think Microsoft have implemented defender as good as they reasonably could, there was a dodgy transitional period, when using build 1809 of Windows there was no way to disable tamper protection, but its current state is very good.

They have made a system where you can only disable tamper protection interactively, if its enabled you can only turn defender off by installing an a/v.

Once tamper protection is off, you have full control over it via group policies including disabling it or making it really hardened needing cloud whitelist approval etc. It has a built in folder control type protection as well, Microsoft have done well with it.

If its off either via group policy or installing a 3rd party a/v, then yes it is properly off. No need to remove it. I also wouldnt remove it unless you like the idea of potentially breaking windows updates and feature updates.

Although memory exploit protection in the UI labels itself as part of defender, it actually is independent and will continue to work with defender disabled. But that can also be disabled if you wanted to easily.

 

[Laurijan]

would like to know how much the HW lobbies payed MS for TPM2.0 and newish CPU requirements

 

[Bill_Bright]

Are you implying that wanting to choose "one's fricken rules" on one's fricken PC is wrong just because that's the direction Microsoft is going in?

Of course not!

If I liked the direction Microsoft is trying to take everyone, I would not be using Start10 on my W10 machines, or Start11 and Explorer Patcher on my W11 machines to make them all look and feel like W7!!!!

What I am saying is, why is it necessary for some here to constantly complain and bash Microsoft and Windows, constantly whine and cry about Windows this feature and Windows that feature when there is absolutely nothing we can do about it?

Why is it necessary for some here to, every time something about Windows (any Windows) is mentioned, they take opportunistic bashes at MS and Windows - even when totally off-topic?

I mean just look at the nearly 5 pages of complaints in this thread, complaints about,

Linux (against and for - even by the same people! )​

TPM​

Windows 11​

MS Surface and dual laptop-tablet devices​

Intel​

Hardware drivers​

HP​

Aftermarket Inks​

Breaking up MS​

Defender​

Windows bloat​

Windows privacy​

ISP privacy​

Cell phone carriers​

Governments​

And note in almost every one of those off-topic topics, it was about how MS influenced or impacted them in some negative or unwanted (according to the poster's opinion) way.

Yet the topic of this thread about supporting W10 for another 10 years.

So I ask again, this time of you, @AusWolf , what good, what anything is being accomplished complaining over and over again (for years - not just in this thread) about, as an illustrating example, Microsoft Defender in W10 W11 cannot be completely removed when (1) we can't do anything about it and (2), it has nothing to do with the thread's topic?

I say again, I don't like many of the changes Microsoft is pushing down on me - in particular, I REALLY don't like the UI (Start menu and desktop) in W10 or W11. But what good does it do to constantly complain about them? MS is not going to go back to W7's UI.

 

[lexluthermiester]

The point being missed is that, at all times, features installed and used are supposed to be OUR CHOICE, not forced on everyone regardless of the features being discussed. Whether or not it does harm or can be disabled is irrelevant. If we do not want it present, it should be our choice to remove it. Always.

 

[Shrek]

Here I differ...

The government enforces safety standards on cars, whether you want the safety belts or not.

So also, Microsoft issue forced security patches, whether you want them or not.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Here I differ...

The government enforces safety standards on cars, whether you want the safety belts or not.

So also, Microsoft issue forced security patches, whether you want them or not.

There's a difference between physical safety devices intended to save people from severe injury & death and digital security. While I agree it's important, there is no comparing those two very different situations.

 

[Dr. Dro]

would like to know how much the HW lobbies payed MS for TPM2.0 and newish CPU requirements

I don't believe anyone "paid" Microsoft anything to make these decisions. Windows' greatest strength is also its greatest weakness, the extensive backwards compatibility that it retained over the years has begun to be an unbearable weight stopping Windows from modernizing itself, and thus keeping up with the times. Windows needs to drop a large amount of baggage to move on and work better with today's computers.

Yes, that is the phone dialer application from Windows NT 4.0 and it's still bundled with Windows 11 24H2 today. The truth is, people have grown spoiled. Today we're moaning that we need a 15 year old computer to run Windows, but go back to 2009, when Windows 7 was just released, and try to do the same. Let's even reduce that to 10 years old - you're simply not running anything Windows 7 on a computer from 1999. Yet in 2024, you complain that the Sandy Bridge system you built in 2011 isn't expressly supported (even though it works, you're just going to have to get out of the comfort zone a bit). "Sheesh, grandpa," that's all I gotta say to these folks.

Microsoft has been extremely aggressive with Windows Update enforcement because of idiots who think they know better and actively avoid updates due to an utterly insane "if it's not broke, don't fix it" mentality some people apply to a ruthless degree to things that they clearly do not understand. Windows Updates aren't a negative thing, they aren't designed to bog your computer down, they aren't designed to steal your data or wrestle control of your machine from you. But it's because of these people - active threats to the internet - that they were forced to take a more involved approach.

 

[Bill_Bright]

The point being missed is that, at all times, features installed and used are supposed to be OUR CHOICE, not forced on everyone regardless of the features being discussed. Whether or not it does harm or can be disabled is irrelevant. If we do not want it present, it should be our choice to remove it. Always.

I am not saying I disagree - I like flexibility too. But why should operating systems, specifically, why should Microsoft operating systems be à la carte? Do you expect to pick and choose which features are included in your next car? Your next TV? Your next microwave oven? Cell phone? Laptop? Or even your next factory-built PC?

Why do you expect - no, demand Microsoft OSs be different? And then why criticize ad nauseam at every opportunity, on topic and off, when they are not? And here you are again, still doing it, for the umpteenth time in this thread alone, even though you know Microsoft is not going to change, even after saying you are "out" back in post #99, and even after being warned multiple times by 95Viper to stay on topic?

Not wanting any assessed points, I say once more,

this thread about supporting W10 for another 10 years.

So with that, I'm done here. Have a good day.

Edit comment: Fixed a couple grammar typos/errors.

 

[Shrek]

There's a difference between physical safety devices intended to save people from severe injury & death and digital security. While I agree it's important, there is no comparing those two very different situations.

I suspect that countries have prepared tools for digital infiltration, and it is becoming an issue of life and death. This in itself may be motivation for abandoning Windows 10 machines.

 

[AusWolf]

Of course not!

If I liked the direction Microsoft is trying to take everyone, I would not be using Start10 on my W10 machines, or Start11 and Explorer Patcher on my W11 machines to make them all look and feel like W7!!!!

What I am saying is, why is it necessary for some here to constantly complain and bash Microsoft and Windows, constantly whine and cry about Windows this feature and Windows that feature when there is absolutely nothing we can do about it?

Why is it necessary for some here to, every time something about Windows (any Windows) is mentioned, they take opportunistic bashes at MS and Windows - even when totally off-topic?

I mean just look at the nearly 5 pages of complaints in this thread, complaints about,

Linux (against and for - even by the same people! )​

TPM​

Windows 11​

MS Surface and dual laptop-tablet devices​

Intel​

Hardware drivers​

HP​

Aftermarket Inks​

Breaking up MS​

Defender​

Windows bloat​

Windows privacy​

ISP privacy​

Cell phone carriers​

Governments​

And note in almost every one of those off-topic topics, it was about how MS influenced or impacted them in some negative or unwanted (according to the poster's opinion) way.

Yet the topic of this thread about supporting W10 for another 10 years.

So I ask again, this time of you, @AusWolf , what good, what anything is being accomplished complaining over and over again (for years - not just in this thread) about, as an illustrating example, Microsoft Defender in W10 W11 cannot be completely removed when (1) we can't do anything about it and (2), it has nothing to do with the thread's topic?

I say again, I don't like many of the changes Microsoft is pushing down on me - in particular, I REALLY don't like the UI (Start menu and desktop) in W10 or W11. But what good does it do to constantly complain about them? MS is not going to go back to W7's UI.

Complaining, as well as pointing out that alternatives exist, is especially useful on a forum like this one. There are lots of people who have no idea how many basic rights they're being denied until someone brings attention to the fact. Look at the number of people still driving a car alone with a face mask on. Someone's got to tell the herd that they're marching towards the slaughterhouse.

 

[mtosev]

I don't think there's any reason that Microsoft should be forced to support Windows 10 for the next 10 years. I say this because people can switch to Linux or macos, upgrading a computer doesn't cost an arm or leg (compatible parts like the mobo, ram and cpu aren't that expensive as you can get that for around 350€/USD), computers like people get old and after sometime they need to be replaced. Just my opinion.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Complaining, as well as pointing out that alternatives exist, is especially useful on a forum like this one.

I agree. But expressing a legitimate (on topic) complaint once (or even twice to reiterate) makes total sense. However, repeated obsessive complaints that have nothing to do with the OP's topic is not especially useful.

I also agree that pointing out alternatives is especially useful. But summarily dismissing all alternatives, while, once again, making off-topic complaints is not.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I suspect that countries have prepared tools for digital infiltration, and it is becoming an issue of life and death. This in itself may be motivation for abandoning Windows 10 machines.

While your point is easy to understand, medical equipment and such, I must disagree strongly. Reason: Those systems can and should completely isolated from the internet. To simply throw them away is wasteful to an extreme. It is incredibly irresponsible of microsoft to be forcing this situation by limiting Windows 11 to certain hardware, which is the real and true crux of this problem.