My Laptop is having issues with PL2 and EDP OTHER

[Übercharge]

i5-10200H
GTX 1650 Ti
When i use my laptop normally everything is fine, when i boot up a graphically demanding game my GPU kicks in but my CPU power drops to 10-20 watts
I'm pretty sure it doesn't have to do anything with cooling since temps are around 60-70-80 in game
Both CPU and GPU are being used:

CPU under load:

Idle:

 

[unclewebb]

Some laptops are poorly designed. They reduce available power to the CPU as soon as the Nvidia GPU becomes active. There is usually no fix for this limitation.

Post a screenshot of the TPL window. Check the MMIO Lock box and run a log file while playing for 15 minutes.

 

[Übercharge]

MMIO lock is ticked now
TPL window:

 

[unclewebb]

Your TPL settings look OK.

run a log file while playing for 15 minutes.

What laptop model do you have? Many laptops use an embedded controller EC to limit CPU power consumption and performance.

 

[Übercharge]

My Laptop Model is Monster Notebook Abra A5 v16.6:

Abra A5 V16.6 15.6" Oyun Bilgisayarı | Monster Notebook

www.monsternotebook.com.tr

i don't know if you will be able to find what you are looking for since the site is in TR
also here are my logs after 15 mins
(edit: it uses the HM470 Chipset if thats gonna be any help)

 

[unclewebb]

The start of the log file shows the CPU temperature reaching 100°C. That causes thermal throttling. After that goes on for a while, your computer then uses the embedded controller (EC) to enforce a much lower turbo power limit. This results in much more severe PL2 power limit throttling down to 15W or less. This is well below the Intel 45W TDP rating for the 10200H.

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...10200h-processor-8m-cache-up-to-4-10-ghz.html

A well designed laptop with a 45W TDP CPU should be able to run indefinitely at up to 45W without overheating. Have you ever opened up your laptop to clean it out? Try replacing the thermal paste with Honeywell PTM 7950. Do not use a popular thermal paste that works well on desktop CPUs. You need a good paste that is going to work well long term on your mobile CPU.

That is the only solution. You need much lower temperatures. If you can avoid any thermal throttling at 100°C, hopefully that will be enough to prevent the EC from forcing the CPU into low power mode. If this was a brand new laptop I would have suggested taking it back to the store immediately for a refund. It is probably a few years old now so you will have to work with what you have.

 

[Übercharge]

Yes, the laptop is around 5 years old by now, i usually open it up, clean it, repaste it like every 3-4 months or so, the thing i really don't understand is none of this happens in CS2 a graphically demanding game it's on high settings aswell but it runs perfectly fine without any problems. (edit: idk why or how but the cpu sometimes consumes around 57 watts usually when i open a program at it's first few seconds. i was thinking that if i limit it to only work at 45 watts, what was inted for it maybe overheating might be solved even so slightly. for the thermal paste i use it's a 5.15w/M-K TM-505, i don't know if it's good for this laptop but i use this one for now i'll see if i can get my hands to the ptm 7950)

 

[unclewebb]

if i limit it to only work at 45 watts

Your cooling system cannot handle 45W. With better paste it might be able to handle 45W but it cannot handle 45W with the paste you are using now. Trying to run the CPU at 45W will cause thermal throttling and this will likely trigger low power mode.

Try setting PL1 and PL2 to 40W and check both Clamp boxes in the Power Limit Controls section so these power limits are enforced. This will reduce maximum performance but it might help you avoid thermal throttling and low power mode. Run another log file with these settings.

 

[Übercharge]

Both PL1 and PL2 set to 40 Watts

 

[unclewebb]

The log file shows constant PL2 power limit throttling down to 10W or less. That reduces performance and makes your laptop unusable for playing games. I do not have any ideas to fix EC power limit throttling. It is terrible design.

 

[Übercharge]

i found a way to feed a bit more power into the cpu by downclocking the gpu with afterburner, and also when i limit the power around 30 watts cpu doesn't get hotter than 75 degrees. is that enough to trigger embedded controller?

 

[unclewebb]

cpu doesn't get hotter than 75 degrees. is that enough to trigger embedded controller?

I do not know what the exact trigger is for the embedded controller. Run a log file and watch for any power limit throttling, PL1 or PL2. If you see any signs of power limit throttling, what does the log file show for power consumption?

 

[gilp456]

As unclewebb mentioned, your system is thermal throttling at its Turbo Power Limit PL2. The system is reducing the power limit to protect the system. Reading through the description, there are a few likely causes.

1. Thermal Grease Contact/Amount with SoC (e.g. CPU) Die Area
2. Incorrect Contact Pressure
3. Fans Not Operating Correctly
4. Heat Exchanger (Fin Area) Obstructed saturating not allowing for efficient cooling

Since throttling happens within the first few seconds, I would guess that it is either #1 or #2 above. The Abra v16.6 was a proven design, and since you mentioned that you have removed and repasted several times, it may have inadvertently caused some wear/warping of the thermal solution over time. By design, while phase change thermal interface material (PTM 7950) may offer better thermal performance when just looking at thermal conductivity, laptop and mobile designs require designing for uniform contact pressure.

Thermal Interface Material performance is a function of application pressure. You will see degraded thermal performance over time if the design does not maintain uniform static pressure over the life/use of the device.

Again, Unclewebb's diagnosis is accurate however I would suggest you revisit the contact area, thermal interface application method, and ensure that your laptop thermal solution is actually making contact well with the SoC firstly.

 

[Übercharge]

the issue was somehow caused by windows.
i installed a fresh copy of windows and everything seems in order.
i'll post an update if anything changes

 

[Übercharge]

the problem started to occur again
i repasted it with thermal grizzly kryronaut extreme 14.2w/mk
the temps are normal but the ghz is again very low
again tho, this doesn't occur on any other game. yes sometimes it will say "power" on the throttle stop but it's usually around 30 watts
it only happens on this spesific game.

 

[unclewebb]

The log file shows that your CPU is still PL2 power limit throttling down to 11W.
Your CPU is supposed to have a 45W TDP rating so this is a bad joke.

   DATE       TIME    MULTI   C0%   CKMOD  BAT_mW  TEMP    VID   POWER
2024-05-30  15:42:43  17.73   37.2  100.0       0   55   0.7396   11.5   PL2
2024-05-30  15:42:44  15.67   44.9  100.0       0   55   0.7406   11.2   PL2
2024-05-30  15:42:45  16.13   45.9  100.0       0   55   0.8060   11.4   PL2
2024-05-30  15:42:46  18.69   40.3  100.0       0   55   0.7312   12.4   PL2
2024-05-30  15:42:47  15.18   46.0  100.0       0   55   0.7417   10.9   PL2
2024-05-30  15:42:48  16.58   38.5  100.0       0   55   0.7538   11.0   PL2
2024-05-30  15:42:49  15.17   48.4  100.0       0   55   0.7206   11.0   PL2
2024-05-30  15:42:50  18.30   40.9  100.0       0   57   0.8502   11.7   PL2

The CPU temperature is only 55°C so there is no reason for your laptop to perform so poorly. The manufacturer seems to have decided that the power budget should be shared between the CPU and Nvidia GPU. When the Nvidia GPU is active, the available power for the CPU is reduced. Excessive CPU throttling is the result.

If the MMIO Lock box in the ThrottleStop TPL window is checked then I do not know how to fix the problem you have. Like far too many laptops, your laptop seems to be defective by design.

 

[Übercharge]

What should be my default clock speed for my gpu?
GTX 1650 Ti
from what i have read online, it's default clock speed is 1350 MHz and at boost it's 1485.
But my GPU MHz is 1950 at boost, is this normal? i didn't overclock it or anything.
when i use afterburner to underclock it cpu power usage goes up making it actually usable

 

[Uğur Uyar]

I have the same laptop and i am from Turkey too. Undervolt the cpu, set PL1 to 35 and set PL2 to 160, tick the PP0 power limit and u are ready to go. On msi afterburner "LOCK" the gpu to 1400 Mhz at around710 mV with pressing L on keyboard. If your clevo control center installed uninstall it from apps then control it from powershell and if its still there uninstall from there too.( You can find how to remove windows apps from powershell on google). I fixed mine problem like that but i am getting random freezes in games. No BSOD just random freezings. I am forced to shut down computer from power button. Idont know why it happens probably about windows or intel microcode problem idk

 

[Uğur Uyar]

Update: I fixed it with just changing my undervolting settings too.

 

[msibiggestfan]

defective by design

I have a MSI GL75 with a 10750H. I have been struggling with the same pl2 + edp other throttling problem, after 5 seconds of gameplay my clock speed throttles down to the 2000s, and pkg power is capped at 20W (normally pulls 25-40 ingame).

Undervolting my GPU to the minimum (similar to Uğur's picture above) mitigated this issue, as gpu power stayed low enough to not trigger the absolutely inane power sharing system described by unclewebb. This worked to a point - but it would still throttle the same way, just for shorter periods of time. Given that this throttling leads to hideous stutters and i play competitive fps I was still looking for a better solution.

After some experimentation, it seems that disabling TVB IN BIOS (tvb voltage optimisations under advanced bios -> overclocking menu -> cpu) has eliminated this problem completely. Just unchecking TVB in TS didn't do the trick. I don't know why. Perhaps unclewebb or another expert has some idea.