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[Nature] A population of red candidate massive galaxies ~600 Myr after the Big Bang

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Another great point.

Over our history, our observations have been limited to a patch of our world and a very basic picture of the sky. The 20th century meant we seriously cut back on the things we haven't looked at yet. In fact, this is what I'm basing my affirmation that I expect current science to hold forever: there are very few place left where we could observe something to turn science upside down. It's not impossible, but all things considered, very, very improbable imho.
Considering the opening article, never say never. :)

The most exciting thing is to find a theory is wrong...
Definitely!

Science remains at a loss as to what Dark Matter is.
If it even exists. Our calculations say that it's there, but it might be something entirely different that we won't discover in the next few decades, or centuries. The same way we won't know for sure what's really inside a black hole.

That brings me to another thought: we rely on light, or some other kind of radiation to observe the universe. As long as this is the case, some mysteries, like the above, will never be uncovered.
 
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If it even exists. Our calculations say that it's there, but it might be something entirely different that we won't discover in the next few decades, or centuries.

Observations show something, even if it is a modification to general relativity (MOND)

But I'm off topic, so should stop.
 
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There's a distinction here between science and theory. What we now classify as science (i.e. verified theory) is what I expect will hold pretty much forever. Theories are another story. We have several of them trying to explain the quantum world and we already know they can't all the correct at the same time. Even though sometimes they can, if we're thinking about how light turned out to be both particle and wave (go figure).
A theory is a model of the real world and like all models can be correct for a range of observations but fail for others. Our current scientific theories have been successful at explaining reality for nearly a century now. Of course, we still find surprises, and there are even old unsolved problems, e.g. turbulence.
 

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Observations show something, even if it is a modification to general relativity (MOND)

But I'm off topic, so should stop.
Whenever dark matter comes up, I think aether: a theory that grew ever more complicated, until aether was completely discarded and propagation of light was explained in an entirely different way. It's just a gut feeling (and an uninformed one), but I think dark matter has a chance of going the same way.
 
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Whenever dark matter comes up, I think aether: a theory that grew ever more complicated, until aether was completely discarded and propagation of light was explained in an entirely different way. It's just a gut feeling (and an uninformed one), but I think dark matter has a chance of going the same way.
Dark Matter is just a fancy name for a placeholder until we figure out what's going on.
 
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Dark Matter is just a fancy name for a placeholder until we figure out what's going on.
I know. I was just saying, I'm wondering if of all the things we imagine, it turns out to be nothing at all, just like there was no aether. It would be so cool if someone figures it out during my lifetime. Though even if they did, I will probably not live long enough to see it confirmed by additional observations or experiments.

Another wacky observation on a rather smaller scale: a two-faced white dwarf.
If that's not discrimination/segregation at a stellar level, I don't know what is.

Joking aside, even stranger than having two sides is that, if that star still had hydrogen, the fusion process should have continued... Most likely Dr Soran had a hand in this.
 
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Absolutely, but so far not one observation has defied quantum theory.
Um, Black Holes anyone? Quantum Theory does not explain Black Holes(IE what a black hole object actually is) any better than G&SR. And since we have actually observed a Black Hole(light bending effect), your statement is untrue..

One of the most exciting thing is to find a theory is wrong.
True! It is unsettling as well.
 
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I am a nuclear physicist. Black holes are hard to explain, but what really fascinates me are neutron stars. They are so compressed and made out of degenerate quark matter. There's even something called strange quarks and a neutron star could be totally made out of strange matter. Normal matter that comes in contact with strange matter becomes strange matter. If your hand was made out of strange matter and you touched your peepee you would then have a strange peepee. If you delete this then we know who you are and what you did.
 
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And that makes quantum theory wrong?
Any theory that does not(or can not) explain every observation we have made, can not be correct, either in part or in whole.

Normal matter that comes in contact with strange matter becomes strange matter.
That has more to do with the gravity involved than the matter itself. The matter found in/on a neutron star is under gravity so intense that non-neutron matter can not exist there. However the jury is still out on whether or not neutron stars in general are quark-stars. The math says it's possible, and it could be that such a star would be on the bleeding edge of collapse into a BHO.

If your hand was made out of strange matter and you touched your peepee you would then have a strange peepee.
For those who don't know, the above is a physics joke..
 
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Any theory that does not(or can not) explain every observation se have made, can not be correct, either in part or in whole
If we do not count that the observations themselves may not be correct due to imperfection, or defects in the instruments we use, or they may be distorted by the scale in a way that we do not yet account for, because we do not know that it exists and we do not visually correct this type of distortion.
 
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Any theory that does not(or can not) explain every observation we have made, can not be correct, either in part or in whole.

No theory explains dark matter (yet), that does not make them incorrect.
 
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Observations show something, even if it is a modification to general relativity (MOND)

But I'm off topic, so should stop.
I thought the Bullet cluster killed MOND.
 
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Me too; so it was a bad example.
 
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If we do not count that the observations themselves may not be correct due to imperfection, or defects in the instruments we use, or they may be distorted by the scale in a way that we do not yet account for, because we do not know that it exists and we do not visually correct this type of distortion.
Because as long as we rely on light, or other sources of radiation to detect far away objects, we won't be able to detect those that don't emit any. I bet there's a huge portion of the universe that we don't know about because of this.
 

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Because as long as we rely on light, or other sources of radiation to detect far away objects, we won't be able to detect those that don't emit any. I bet there's a huge portion of the universe that we don't know about because of this.

This is basically how my thought process started many years ago, combine that with a thought of experiment that I also thought of many years ago as a teen, in which my friends were quite blown away by: "let's take a rocket that hypothetically has endless fuel, and a robot that hypothetically never dies and always has a fuel source, and we let them go and go and go... will they the rocket eventually hit a brick wall, or a barrier of some kind (lets hypothetically say it doesn't run into any natural obstacles like asteroids, planets, etc), and if the rocket does hit an obstacle; who built it, what is the barrier made of, etc. It seems self-evident to me the Cosmos must be infinite, the idea of multi-verse theory I still disagree with, infinite is just something we will never be able to comprehend, but it doesn't necessarily mean everything will happen an infinite amount of times. Brian Cox's argument doesn't work for me, for many reasons of which I will not go into here. This concept for me was largely influenced by watching Carl Sagan as a teenager. I'm aware it's a fairly common train of thought now, but it wasn't when I was a teen many years ago.

It also does not make them correct either. That's why they are called "Theories".

I think we all agree on this thread now, it was largely just a misunderstanding of etymology and the need to describe the way those at the top of their field in astrophysics have historically let their ego influence the way they belittle others thoughts. I do understand the idea of you can only help people some much though, in regards to the flat earthers comment a few posts ago, etc. That being said however, there is no need to belittle them, if we appeal to the ancient philosophers for guidance they would simply tell us to ignore them, not out of spite though. Flat Earthers are not a part of this this discussion and not remotely related to the 13.8 billion years discussion though, so why that comment was even made is beyond me, it is not such an easily compared discussion in my eyes.

The discern of the value of various conversations, then equating them is one of the great weaknesses of our species in the current era, as we have seen with modern politics in recent years and whatbaoutism phenomena. Another reason I value ancient philosophy so highly, for they also had this problem in their time, and countered it with the highest virtue: reason. The problem is, most are no longer reasonable, and have turned to their animal side of the brain, for which the ancient philosophers also have answers to.
 

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I am a nuclear physicist. Black holes are hard to explain, but what really fascinates me are neutron stars. They are so compressed and made out of degenerate quark matter. There's even something called strange quarks and a neutron star could be totally made out of strange matter. Normal matter that comes in contact with strange matter becomes strange matter. If your hand was made out of strange matter and you touched your peepee you would then have a strange peepee. If you delete this then we know who you are and what you did.
And by that you mean the up/down, top/bottom, charm/strange kind of quark? Or just plain old strange?
 
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I think we all agree on this thread now, it was largely just a misunderstanding of etymology and the need to describe the way those at the top of their field in astrophysics have historically let their ego influence the way they belittle others thoughts. I do understand the idea of you can only help people some much though, in regards to the flat earthers comment a few posts ago, etc. That being said however, there is no need to belittle them, if we appeal to the ancient philosophers for guidance they would simply tell us to ignore them, not out of spite though. Flat Earthers are not a part of this this discussion and not remotely related to the 13.8 billion years discussion though, so why that comment was even made is beyond me, it is not such an easily compared discussion in my eyes.
I don't remember making a flat-earthers comment in this thread, however I do think the whole concept is silly because it ignores known, provable facts. As for the way I come off, don't intend to be belittling as a general rule. It can come off that way because of the way I present information, very directly and sometimes bluntly. I have no fear addressing a thought that has been presented and is incorrect with a statement of such often with a correction. Yet there have been a few times, when someone offers something that seems like a directed jab or insult, that a very striking response is made.

The discern of the value of various conversations, then equating them is one of the great weaknesses of our species in the current era, as we have seen with modern politics in recent years and whatbaoutism phenomena.
On this we agree fully.
Another reason I value ancient philosophy so highly, for they also had this problem in their time, and countered it with the highest virtue: reason.
Also agree to a point. It depends on what part of ancient history we look at.
The problem is, most are no longer reasonable, and have turned to their animal side of the brain, for which the ancient philosophers also have answers to.
True.
 
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I don't remember making a flat-earthers comment in this thread, however I do think the whole concept is silly because it ignores known, provable facts. As for the way I come off, don't intend to be belittling as a general rule. It can come off that way because of the way I present information, very directly and sometimes bluntly. I have no fear addressing a thought that has been presented and is incorrect with a statement of such often with a correction. Yet there have been a few times, when someone offeres something that seems like a directed jab or insult, that a very striking response is made.

You misunderstand here, those comments had nothing to do with you, I was referring about other commenters in the thread who had mentioned flat others, and the belittling comment was also not towards you, I was saying in a general sense of my past experience as a teenager when I was various astrophysics questions and was talked down to by my "betters who know the science was 100% set in stone".

Sorry I did not clarify, but yeah I was speaking about the thread in general, not anything you said at all actually.
 
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You misunderstand here, those comments had nothing to do with you
Ah, ok. Definitely misunderstood. I thought that because you were responding to one of my comments you were referencing them.

I was referring about other commenters in the thread who had mentioned flat others, and the belittling comment was also not towards you, I was saying in a general sense of my past experience as a teenager when I was various astrophysics questions and was talked down to by my "betters who know the science was 100% set in stone".
Fair enough then.

Sorry I did not clarify, but yeah I was speaking about the thread in general, not anything you said at all actually.
No worries. It's all good. :toast:
 
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This is basically how my thought process started many years ago, combine that with a thought of experiment that I also thought of many years ago as a teen, in which my friends were quite blown away by: "let's take a rocket that hypothetically has endless fuel, and a robot that hypothetically never dies and always has a fuel source, and we let them go and go and go... will they the rocket eventually hit a brick wall, or a barrier of some kind (lets hypothetically say it doesn't run into any natural obstacles like asteroids, planets, etc), and if the rocket does hit an obstacle; who built it, what is the barrier made of, etc. It seems self-evident to me the Cosmos must be infinite, the idea of multi-verse theory I still disagree with, infinite is just something we will never be able to comprehend, but it doesn't necessarily mean everything will happen an infinite amount of times. Brian Cox's argument doesn't work for me, for many reasons of which I will not go into here. This concept for me was largely influenced by watching Carl Sagan as a teenager. I'm aware it's a fairly common train of thought now, but it wasn't when I was a teen many years ago.
According to current estimates, the robot will never hit a barrier because the universe is expanding faster than the robot can fly the rocket. So even if there is a barrier, we will never know.

I don't believe the multiverse theory either, btw. An infinite universe suggests infinite, never repeating things, and not variations of the same thing.
 
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