Need help with 3600 cpu idling at high voltage

[sargetun]

Hey I'm using a ryzen 5 3600cpu and a asus tuf x570 pro am4 moba, and it seems no matter what i do it idles at 1.336 never goes under it, even when its not under any load at all. Wondering is there any advice to try and help with this? It seems to be affecting my cpu temps, and ive read high idle voltage is a known issue for some cpus, i downloaded the latest chipset, tried changing options in my moba, but besides manually downvolting it nothing seems to change it. Any ideas? Appreciate any help

 

[thesmokingman]

Hey I'm using a ryzen 5 3600cpu and a asus tuf x570 pro am4 moba, and it seems no matter what i do it idles at 1.336 never goes under it, even when its not under any load at all. Wondering is there any advice to try and help with this? It seems to be affecting my cpu temps, and ive read high idle voltage is a known issue for some cpus, i downloaded the latest chipset, tried changing options in my moba, but besides manually downvolting it nothing seems to change it. Any ideas? Appreciate any help

Reports of Ryzen 3000 High Idle Voltage Exaggerated, a Case of the "Observer Effect"

With AMD's 3rd generation Ryzen processors finally falling into the hands of PC enthusiasts, many early-adopters are taking to tech communities such as ours, to share their experiences with others. A trend appears to be emerging of users reporting higher-than-usual voltages for these processors...

www.techpowerup.com

Be careful of how you are monitoring the cpu as you might be creating the issue.

 

[Deleted member 185158]

Hey I'm using a ryzen 5 3600cpu and a asus tuf x570 pro am4 moba, and it seems no matter what i do it idles at 1.336 never goes under it, even when its not under any load at all. Wondering is there any advice to try and help with this? It seems to be affecting my cpu temps, and ive read high idle voltage is a known issue for some cpus, i downloaded the latest chipset, tried changing options in my moba, but besides manually downvolting it nothing seems to change it. Any ideas? Appreciate any help

Set your windows to power saving or Balanced. Should throttle.

 

[Zach_01]

Hey I'm using a ryzen 5 3600cpu and a asus tuf x570 pro am4 moba, and it seems no matter what i do it idles at 1.336 never goes under it, even when its not under any load at all. Wondering is there any advice to try and help with this? It seems to be affecting my cpu temps, and ive read high idle voltage is a known issue for some cpus, i downloaded the latest chipset, tried changing options in my moba, but besides manually downvolting it nothing seems to change it. Any ideas? Appreciate any help

If you are monitoring voltage with software like CPU-Z then its not the best way to do it.
Use HWiNFO64 where you can see the current, min, max, avg values of individual CoreVID.
Typically ZEN2 has high idle voltage readings as its by design like this. When load is applied and power current (amps) increase... the voltage is dropping where it suppose to be.

I have same CPU as you and you can look and compare readings directly... although setting may vary.
I use:
1. Latest BIOS (AGESA 1.0.0.4 B)
2. Latest Chipset drivers from AMD https://www.amd.com/en/support/chipsets/amd-socket-am4/x570
3. Win10 v1909
4. 1usmus Universal Power plan (v1.1) for ZEN2

1usmus Custom Power Plan for Ryzen 3000 Zen 2 Processors

In this article by our resident Ryzen tweaking guru "1usmus" we present a customized power plan for AMD's new Ryzen 3000 processors. The new power plan ensures workloads run on the best cores, which not only increases boost clocks, but also stops threads from bouncing between cores too often.

www.techpowerup.com

1usmus Custom Power Plan for Ryzen 3000 Processors v1.1 Download

This custom power plan for AMD Ryzen 3000 "Zen 2" processors will ensure that workloads do not bounce between cores, leading to higher and more stabl

www.techpowerup.com

This from my system after 50min of low workload (browsing)

 

[cucker tarlson]

Reports of Ryzen 3000 High Idle Voltage Exaggerated, a Case of the "Observer Effect"

With AMD's 3rd generation Ryzen processors finally falling into the hands of PC enthusiasts, many early-adopters are taking to tech communities such as ours, to share their experiences with others. A trend appears to be emerging of users reporting higher-than-usual voltages for these processors...

www.techpowerup.com

Be careful of how you are monitoring the cpu as you might be creating the issue.

this is not the answer.
why does waking up cores require running such voltages on ryzen 3000 while it does not require any other processor to do so though ?

 

[Waldorf]

Might just be bad silicon lottery.
Had a 3600 doing the same.
I use power saving profile for low load things, and limited max cpu to 50%, that keeps V and temps low.

 

[Zach_01]

Besides everything I said in post #4, the power plan used (as @ShrimpBrime and @Fry178 said) and it’s deeper settings have major affect to clock/voltage behavior when idling or boosting. And UEFI settings related to P/C-states.

Prior to 1usmus’s power plan (and UEFI settings for it) I was getting values down to 0.2V for min readings. Now the lower reported is above 1.0V as you can see from screenshot...
I personally don’t mind that cause my CPU is cool enough when idling or under low loads.

this is not the answer.
why does waking up cores require running such voltages on ryzen 3000 while it does not require any other processor to do so though ?

Because that’s how AMD had made them. It’s common to all ZEN2 so far (desktop/HEDT), to have high voltage when a core is active and idling or in very low load. If load increases and current(A) go higher voltage is dropping. Only when a core is in sleep state the voltage drops close or below 1.0V down to 0.2V.
Comparing Ryzen and particularly ZEN2 with other older CPUs is not valid. We must forget what we have learned so far about CPU behavior for idling or boosting.

 

[sargetun]

Thank you all so much for your quick and helpful replies, to answer some questions asked I am using ryzen balanced power saving U had also tried windows power saving plan to no avail. I am at the latest bios for asus tuf x570 am4 board and latest chipset driver "Revision Number 2.01.15.2138", I am going to try the 1usmus's power plan, what do I do just install it?

 

[Zach_01]

I am going to try the 1usmus's power plan, what do I do just install it?

Short of...
There are a few UEFI settings need to set properly.
It’s in the article I posted, but here:

Global C-state Control = Enabled
Power Supply Idle Control = Low Current Idle
CPPC = Enabled
CPPC Preferred Cores = Enabled
AMD Cool'n'Quiet = Enabled
PPC Adjustment = PState 0

I strongly suggest to all ZEN2 users to install 1usmus universal power plan for better and optimal boost and (per CCX) core loading. But there are a few users who does not care about all that and may have different goals. They should create their own power plan to their liking.

Before you install 1usmus power plan and do the BIOS settings above, I would say to monitor the CPU for a while as I’ve shown with that screenshot of HWiNFO for reference. Just idling, browsing, watching videos kind of loads. And post it here if you like. Then we’ll see...

 

[sargetun]

after/after 2 is with the iusmus power plan, before/before 2 is with ryzen balanced power plan the default one

also what's amd-v out of curiosity? it seems to be supported but disabled according to hwinfo

 

[Zach_01]

Click those blue arrows down left in HWiNFO window to fill the page with more sensors visible and adjust columns width if needed.
Also your shots are after only a few seconds of monitoring. The longer you leave it to monitor (minimized in system tray) the better while you use you PC for typical loads, not gaming or any other high loads. At least 30 mins of each session.

AMD-V is for virtualization. For creating VM, virtual machines. Keep it disabled if you are not into this.

 

[sargetun]

Click those blue arrows down left in HWiNFO window to fill the page with more sensors visible and adjust columns width if needed.
Also your shots are after only a few seconds of monitoring. The longer you leave it to monitor (minimized in system tray) the better while you use you PC for typical loads, not gaming or any other high loads. At least 30 mins of each session.

AMD-V is for virtualization. For creating VM, virtual machines. Keep it disabled if you are not into this.

okay i have no need for a vm atm, was just not familiar with it good to know tho thank you! so does it seem normal? ill get another ss of 30 mins of it soon

 

[Zach_01]

so does it seem normal? ill get another ss of 30 mins of it soon

If you are asking about readings then I can’t tell as it’s too short monitor time and I can’t see other (all) sensor readings.
I can’t even compare the before/after new power plan for the same above reasons.

 

[GLD]

I have the same board/cpu and was worried about the new normal high tempts and vcore compared to my Ryzen 2600. At build I put on a new Wraith Prism cooler with it's stock TIM. Set on it's highest it would get over 80*C gaming, Yikes! I pulled the cooler to put on some Arctic Silver 5. I realized the base of the cooler was complete rubbish in it's design with it's exposed, uneven heat pipes. I had a Vanilla Wraith cooler from the 2600, with it's solid copper base. It is a few mm's shorter with it's fins though, but the same in every other dimension. I put the RGB fan assembly from the Prism on to the Vanilla, with AS5, and the temps have lowered in to the 70's now. Still higher then I like, but I'll live with it. I leave it at stock in the bios and run the Ryzen Balanced power plan. I wont be oc'ing nothing in this rig. I am happy with it's stock performance, minus the temps and power draw. (pics are web examples)

Pairing these new chips with a good cooler and good TIM is a must. I will prob keep my Ryzen 2600 around in case the 3600 cooks itself.

 

[Zach_01]

I have the same board/cpu and was worried about the new normal high tempts and vcore compared to my Ryzen 2600. At build I put on a new Wraith Prism cooler with it's stock TIM. Set on it's highest it would get over 80*C gaming, Yikes! I pulled the cooler to put on some Arctic Silver 5. I realized the base of the cooler was complete rubbish in it's design with it's exposed, uneven heat pipes. I had a Vanilla Wraith cooler from the 2600, with it's solid copper base. It is a few mm's shorter with it's fins though, but the same in every other dimension. I put the RGB fan assembly from the Prism on to the Vanilla, with AS5, and the temps have lowered in to the 70's now. Still higher then I like, but I'll live with it. I leave it at stock in the bios and run the Ryzen Balanced power plan. I wont be oc'ing nothing in this rig. I am happy with it's stock performance, minus the temps and power draw. (pics are web examples)

Pairing these new chips with a good cooler and good TIM is a must. I will prob keep my Ryzen 2600 around in case the 3600 cooks itself.

Don’t worry about cooking Zen2 while at stock boosting and settings. Even at 90C it’s ok, again I say only under stock settings.
The worst it could happen is to lost some boosting clock.

ZEN2 has a throttle temp of 95C and a shutdown temp of 115C.

It’s a fact that after around 50C the CPU is starting to loose clock of max all core boosting. This is not considered as throttling, but as PrecisionBoostingOverdrive loss.

If throttling point of 95C is reached then the cut down for clock and voltage is massive.

 

[thesmokingman]

It’s a fact that after around 50C the CPU is starting to loose clock of max all core boosting.

The point of reduced boost tables is 68c not 50c.

 

[Zach_01]

The point of reduced boost tables is 68c not 50c.

But I, all core load, going from 75C (summer with 33C amb) to <60C (now with 23C amb and LM TIM) gained around 150MHz. From 64C to 59C gained around 50MHz (just from TIM change).

 

[thesmokingman]

But I, all core load, going from 75C (summer with 33C amb) to <60C (now with 23C amb and LM TIM) gained around 150MHz. From 64C to 59C gained around 50MHz (just from TIM change).

That's down to cooling.

 

[Zach_01]

That's down to cooling.

I’m confused...

It’s a fact that after around 50C the CPU is starting to loose clock of max all core boosting. This is not considered as throttling, but as PrecisionBoostingOverdrive loss.

The point of reduced boost tables is 68c not 50c.

But I, all core load, going from 75C (summer with 33C amb) to <60C (now with 23C amb and LM TIM) gained around 150MHz. From 64C to 59C gained around 50MHz (just from TIM change).

I was talking about cooling all along...
And the point to reduce clock is clearly below 68C. Unless we mean different things and I’m not aware of it.

 

[Waldorf]

I think its reduced clocks vs reduced boost.

 

[thesmokingman]

I think its reduced clocks vs reduced boost.

Sort of. He's suggesting its a negative reaction that is you won't get max clocks unless its super cool. That's incorrect because the max clock follows the boost table. Whether anyone hits that is dependent on their temps. I think that's an important distinction for everyone. That aside, cooler temps won't help boost after the full duration as the cpu will drop clocks down again for long runs to stay under the TDP limit. And to reiterate above 68c the boost table is reduced with throttle at 95c. Now this is for stock, truly stock w/o PBO enabled like tons of boards by default. Once PBO is on, TDP limits change.

 

[biffzinker]

Outwardly to Windows, and hardware monitoring programs it appears the cores/CPU is running at a high voltage when idling. Internally though the power management hardware is still dropping the voltage, and power gating cores. I've tried once to disable all power management options in the BIOS for a fixed clockspeed but the cores still drop the voltage when idle, and go into the lowest C sleep state.

 

[Waldorf]

but much shorter than they could.
use a profile with max set to around 50% (2.2 ghz for 3600),
and you will see a drop in voltage, and temps (about 10*C) as well.

 

[birdie]

after/after 2 is with the iusmus power plan, before/before 2 is with ryzen balanced power plan the default one

also what's amd-v out of curiosity? it seems to be supported but disabled according to hwinfo

I can't say it's become substantially better for you since your CPU idles while consuming over 38W which is just insane.

Just one thread, and we already have two people whose Ryzen 3000 CPUs don't even idle properly.

Please don't hate me but Intel CPUs idle at less than 6W, including the Intel Core i9 9900K while being produced using a much inferior node.

...
This from my system after 50min of low workload (browsing)
...

I'm sorry, sir, but your CPU power management also seems broken: your CPU package power never goes below 31W which is just bad. My 3700X idles at around 16W.

 

[Zach_01]

Sort of. He's suggesting its a negative reaction that is you won't get max clocks unless its super cool. That's incorrect because the max clock follows the boost table. Whether anyone hits that is dependent on their temps. I think that's an important distinction for everyone. That aside, cooler temps won't help boost after the full duration as the cpu will drop clocks down again for long runs to stay under the TDP limit. And to reiterate above 68c the boost table is reduced with throttle at 95c. Now this is for stock, truly stock w/o PBO enabled like tons of boards by default. Once PBO is on, TDP limits change.

I'm just telling what I see with my system. I've done a lot of testing, with different CPU cooling conditions, on the same ambient conditions, or different, and I've push other ZEN2 users to do the same and its obvious that the more you cool ZEN2 the more clock and voltage the internal silicon controller will allow. I've test it with 30+C ambient, with 23C amb. With regular TIM, with liquid metal, with different pump and rad fan settings and then came to this conclusion.
A month ago I changed thermal paste and apply liquid metal. Dropping 4~5C max temp from ~63C to 58~59C has increased clock and voltage and whithin stock PBO limits (PPT/TDC/EDC). With the exact same work load of course.

I can't say it's become substantially better for you since your CPU idles while consuming over 38W which is just insane.

Just one thread, and we already have two people whose Ryzen 3000 CPUs don't even idle properly.

Please don't hate me but Intel CPUs idle at less than 6W, including the Intel Core i9 9900K while being produced using a much inferior node.



I'm sorry, sir, but your CPU power management also seems broken: your CPU package power never goes below 31W which is just bad. My 3700X idles at around 16W.

First do not compare Intel and AMD CPUs, its invalid. Second, just give us the details and a identical screenshot of your system and the extensive details about CPU/SOC/DRAM and PowerManagement BIOS settings and Win10 power plan used (and deeper settings of it) and then we can discuss if anything is broken or not. Idling at 38W avg of course is not the lowest these CPUs can do, but that depends on a lot of things. So do not assume things so easily and without specifics...