Need some assistance with BIOS flashing with ch341a

[ThunderSoul]

A long time ago I bought some bogus cards from Ali Express and with the help of this forum I got one of them to run, but I gave up on the other because I couldn't get it to work at all.

I was using a ch341a programmer to flash the BIOS, but when attempting to read the chip from the bogus card, the readout would either be gibberish or empty.

Lately I decided to go back to this card and try to make it work. I had spent a lot of time and programmers on this to gain some experience on the matter. Hands on experience FTW!

Anyway, I lost 5 programmers to this thing, and it seems that as soon as I connect the programmer to the card's chip, the programmer overheats. After that, they're not able to ever read again (tried it with the other card that didn't give me such problems). I always thought I was doing something wrong since I'm not pro at this stuff, but I think at this point I need some help in figuring out why this card immediately burns out my programmers.

Anyone have any clue and how to fix it? Please let me know!!

P.S.: As for the card itself, it seems to be a 768MB card. That's all I can make out from it. It has 1 of each DVI, HDMI, and VGA. Attached are some images of the card... And of the chip that causes the burn. Thanks!!

 

[eidairaman1]

Card is damaged, throw it out.

You killed 5 programmers with it. Stop wasting time on these fake cards.

 

[ThunderSoul]

I am looking for help, not for hate and anger. If you can't provide the former but are bent on the latter, it's best not to hear from you. Otherwise, I'll take any help I can get!

 

[sneekypeet]

I am looking for help, not for hate and anger. If you can't provide the former but are bent on the latter, it's best not to hear from you. Otherwise, I'll take any help I can get!

Looking at it from the outside, it appears he made a blunt comment, but it isn't specifically wrong or hateful. I too would stop if it works on other cards, but a specific one is killing multiple devices.

The funny part is, the guy giving advise is one, if not "the" resident GPU flashing advisor.

 

[ThaiTaffy]

I am looking for help, not for hate and anger. If you can't provide the former but are bent on the latter, it's best not to hear from you. Otherwise, I'll take any help I can get!

Maybe he had a bad day, but honestly if anyone was able to help you it would be him if he says it's Ewaste then it's most Definitely Ewaste.

 

[ThunderSoul]

Do you think it's the whole card that's killing it or the particular chip? How does that work anyway? If I learn to solder and get a replacement chip do you think that'll work?

I'm not sure if I mentioned it, but I'm in it for the experience and don't want to give up. This goes beyond a simple scam. It's also a chance to learn to solder, something I've seen my father do when I was just a kid. He won't be able to teach me now, but I'd like to learn, and this scam provided this opportunity. I'm not going to throw it away if I can help it...

Maybe he had a bad day, but honestly if anyone was able to help you it would be him if he says it's Ewaste then it's most Definitely Ewaste.

Ok... I still want to learn from this rather than give up. It seems I'm on my way to learn how to solder...

 

[ThaiTaffy]

To replace the chip you would need a thermostatically controlled hot air soldering station a matching re-balling template and maybe even a microscope among other consumables.

 

[Ferd]

The pm25lq010 is probably a 3.3v chip , the ch34a spi and i2C are 5v signals as the whole programmer uses 5v from the usb ports there is a workaround ...

CH341A Serial Memory Programmer Power Supply Fix - Page 1

CH341A Serial Memory Programmer Power Supply Fix - Page 1

www.eevblog.com

i too have burned a few chips with this mediocre programmer , at this point it is possible that you have shorted the chip and that in turn is shorting the programmers you keep buying, check the voltages on chip first to confirm if it’s 3.3 v is present

 

[ThunderSoul]

Maybe he had a bad day, but honestly if anyone was able to help you it would be him if he says it's Ewaste then it's most Definitely Ewaste.

Ok... I still want to learn from this rather than give up. It seems I'm on my way to learn how to solder...

Looking at it from the outside, it appears he made a blunt comment, but it isn't specifically wrong or hateful. I too would stop if it works on other cards, but a specific one is killing multiple devices.

The funny part is, the guy giving advise is one, if not "the" resident GPU flashing advisor.

Not sure if you're getting this, but I'm not willing to give up at this time...

The pm25lq010 is probably a 3.3v chip , the ch34a spi and i2C are 5v signals as the whole programmer uses 5v from the usb ports there is a workaround ...

CH341A Serial Memory Programmer Power Supply Fix - Page 1

CH341A Serial Memory Programmer Power Supply Fix - Page 1

www.eevblog.com

i too have burned a few chips with this mediocre programmer , at this point it is possible that you have shorted the chip and that in turn is shorting the programmers you keep buying, check the voltages on chip first to confirm if it’s 3.3 v is present

I'm sorry, that's the wrong picture from the other card... The chip that's causing trouble is a pm25lv512...

Edit: updated with the proper picture

 

[Ferd]

You can desolder without a hot air station , you need low melt solder and a lot of flux , plenty videos on. YT because I can’t explain that through text

 

[ThunderSoul]

You can desolder without a hot air station , you need low melt solder and a lot of flux , plenty videos on. YT because I can’t explain that through text

That's fine, can you explain the voltage part with the new chip and programmer if you don't mind?

 

[Ferd]

Ok... I still want to learn from this rather than give up. It seems I'm on my way to learn how to solder...

Not sure if you're getting this, but I'm not willing to give up at this time...


I'm sorry, that's the wrong picture from the other card... The chip that's causing trouble is a pm25lv512...

No worries, you can look up that chip’s data sheet online and get more details about, since you’re trying to learn instead of solve the problem, do it the right way read through the data sheets , they’re always right ...

that bloody programmer is a mess , here is a link with more informations about it , read the comments at the bottom too , some people sharing workarounds

CH341A Mini Programmer Schematic and Drivers

Take a look at the schematic of this versatile programmer to learn how to use it properly. An overview of CH341A devices with driver and tools download links

www.onetransistor.eu

 

[ThaiTaffy]

You can desolder without a hot air station , you need low melt solder and a lot of flux , plenty videos on. YT because I can’t explain that through text

Maybe a simple IC with visible contacts anything else a soldering iron will destroy.

 

[Ferd]

That's fine, can you explain the voltage part with the new chip and programmer if you don't mind?

You basically need to mod the programmer to avoid it burning the chips you connect to it , a “proper “ programmer won’t have this issue but it is what it is ...
Most spi flash memory is 3.3v , this programmer is not , it’s signals are 5v , i think there was a “black version “ that had this issue solved but I’ve never found it for sale only heard about it in forums , again link to the modd here

CH341A Serial Memory Programmer Power Supply Fix - Page 1

CH341A Serial Memory Programmer Power Supply Fix - Page 1

www.eevblog.com

Maybe a simple IC with visible contacts anything else a soldering iron will destroy.

Yes ofc , if it was a QFN package I wouldn’t recommend soldering iron , but this is easier for him , I don’t think he has a soldering station at hand ,

 

[ThunderSoul]

You basically need to mod the programmer to avoid it burning the chips you connect to it , a “proper “ programmer won’t have this issue but it is what it is ...
Most spi flash memory is 3.3v , this programmer is not , it’s signals are 5v , i think there was a “black version “ that had this issue solved but I’ve never found it for sale only heard about it in forums , again link to the modd here

CH341A Serial Memory Programmer Power Supply Fix - Page 1

CH341A Serial Memory Programmer Power Supply Fix - Page 1

www.eevblog.com

Yes ofc , if it was a QFN package I wouldn’t recommend soldering iron , but this is easier for him , I don’t think he has a soldering station at hand ,

I have never soldered before. I have 0 experience with electronics engineering. I just purchased a soldering kit from Amazon. That's the extent of my knowledge. I didn't get any flux (simply because it didn't cross my mind given my level of experience), but I will soon.

Anyway, I checked the 2 chips' datasheets (010 and 512) and they run from 2.3v to 3.6v and 2.7v to 3.6v, respectively. I'm not sure that the programmer being 5v would be burning the chips because I was able to deal with the 010 "successfully", while the 512 overheats the programmer as soon as they're attached to one another.

So I did a quick search online and the flux seems to be used for removing impurities before soldering so that the connection is pure. I'll also be needing a pump to suck up the melted solder when I remove the 512 chip to make room for a new one.

I think I got the basics, now I need to wait for the stuff to get here and see what I can learn from this "exciting" new experience!

 

[Ferd]

I was able to deal with the 010 "successfully", while the 512 overheats the programmer

Some chips will be able to tolerate 5v , while others won’t, the safest way is to respect the data sheet spec , ~3.3v in this case you can see how broad the tolerance is :

run from 2.3v to 3.6v and 2.7v to 3.6v,

So it’s not exactly 3.3v but that’s what you will find in most boards ..

it can be another issue, test the chip itself for shorts , and read the programmer’s guide in the previous link + the bios chip data sheet , you will be able to figure out how to connect it properly at the end

the flux

flux will make it easier to solder , you can go without flux , but it will be messy and maybe harder to melt the solder

I'll also be needing a pump to suck up the melted solder

avoid that, look for “soldering wick “ , it takes some practice to learn how to use it , and it doesn’t last long, but it’s superior to pump , and tbh my pump is just sitting around it’s mostly useless

I think I got the basics, now I need to wait for the stuff to get here and see what I can learn from this "exciting" new experience!

good luck ,
one last advice , before you touch the gpu , please get a broken motherboard and practice on that first , last thing you want is to break something on your gpu and then you’ll hate yourself ( or me )

 

[ThunderSoul]

Some chips will be able to tolerate 5v , while others won’t, the safest way is to respect the data sheet spec , ~3.3v in this case you can see how broad the tolerance is :

So it’s not exactly 3.3v but that’s what you will find in most boards ..

it can be another issue, test the chip itself for shorts , and read the programmer’s guide in the previous link + the bios chip data sheet , you will be able to figure out how to connect it properly at the end

flux will make it easier to solder , you can go without flux , but it will be messy and maybe harder to melt the solder

avoid that, look for “soldering wick “ , it takes some practice to learn how to use it , and it doesn’t last long, but it’s superior to pump , and tbh my pump is just sitting around it’s mostly useless

good luck ,
one last advice , before you touch the gpu , please get a broken motherboard and practice on that first , last thing you want is to break something on your gpu and then you’ll hate yourself ( or me )

I knew I should've waited for a reply before buying more stuff from Amazon, ROFL!

Anyway, that GPU is useless with its fake Chinese BIOS, so if I destroy it even more than it already is, I don't really care. I'll just be sad I failed at this new experiment, but that's it.

On another note, I have no electrical experience, so I don't know how to test for shorts.

I also do not understand how to bypass the 3.3v regulator or whatever that was from those articles. If I understand it right, I have to desolder PIN 28 from the programmer chip, lift it, make sure it makes no contact with the board, and connect it by wire to 2 other "ends". I'm not sure if that'll make it a 3.3v programmer. I don't understand it well...

Here's my plan:

1) Desolder the 512.
2) Try to read it once desoldered. I read on this forum someone was able to read the chip only when desoldered. If this works, I just need to resolder and repeat the process a few hundred times until I get the right BIOS. My mission of learning to desolder and resolder would be a complete success at this point.
3) If that fails, wait for replacement chips to roll in and try to program them, then solder them.
4) If that doesn't work, I'll have to go beyond the scope of my learning adventure and will have to get into "hacking" the programmer. I'm scared of this as this is beyond me, and I only have a single programmer left......... Sheesh!
5) If that doesn't work, I'll declare partial victory as I've learnt a lot, but fell to the scammers. The road ends.

 

[eidairaman1]

I am looking for help, not for hate and anger. If you can't provide the former but are bent on the latter, it's best not to hear from you. Otherwise, I'll take any help I can get!

I spoke truth, you cant handle it.

Looking at it from the outside, it appears he made a blunt comment, but it isn't specifically wrong or hateful. I too would stop if it works on other cards, but a specific one is killing multiple devices.

The funny part is, the guy giving advise is one, if not "the" resident GPU flashing advisor.

I was direct. I guess common sense is uncommon today.

@op instead of wasting more money, use it on something worthwile.

Maybe he had a bad day, but honestly if anyone was able to help you it would be him if he says it's Ewaste then it's most Definitely Ewaste.

Fake cards are ewaste

 

[ThunderSoul]

I spoke truth, you cant handle it.


I was direct. I guess common sense is uncommon today.

@op instead of wasting more money, use it on something worthwile.

I think you're just angry. No room for that in this discussion. You're looking for trouble and I'm not interested.

Some chips will be able to tolerate 5v , while others won’t, the safest way is to respect the data sheet spec , ~3.3v in this case you can see how broad the tolerance is :

So it’s not exactly 3.3v but that’s what you will find in most boards ..

it can be another issue, test the chip itself for shorts , and read the programmer’s guide in the previous link + the bios chip data sheet , you will be able to figure out how to connect it properly at the end

flux will make it easier to solder , you can go without flux , but it will be messy and maybe harder to melt the solder

avoid that, look for “soldering wick “ , it takes some practice to learn how to use it , and it doesn’t last long, but it’s superior to pump , and tbh my pump is just sitting around it’s mostly useless

good luck ,
one last advice , before you touch the gpu , please get a broken motherboard and practice on that first , last thing you want is to break something on your gpu and then you’ll hate yourself ( or me )

I got some paste flux, do you recommend liquid flux, and if so, which one? I saw some tutorials and I didn't see them use paste, only liquid. Thanks!

 

[R-T-B]

If you really consider it worth saving, you probably have a chip voltage mismatch on your hands, and have fried the onboard VGA bios chip. CH341A's only do 5Vs, some GPUs use 3.3v or even 1.8v.

 

[Ferd]

I think you're just angry. No room for that in this discussion. You're looking for trouble and I'm not interested.

I think you need to calm down , everyone here is just trying to help with the knowledge they have , and I agree with him , you will be wasting a lot of money and time on this , but you will also learn a few things .... it’s all about perspective ... keep it cool

 

[ThunderSoul]

If you really consider it worth saving, you probably have a chip voltage mismatch on your hands, and have friend the onboard VGA bios chip. CH341A's only do 5Vs, some GPUs use 3.3v or even 1.8v.

I'm interested in learning more than saving. This scam provided an opportunity for me to learn something I've been meaning to learn/understand for a long time!

If that really is the problem, then I have a difficult learning curve ahead of me..........

 

[ThaiTaffy]

I got some paste flux, do you recommend liquid flux, and if so, which one? I saw some tutorials and I didn't see them use paste, only liquid. Thanks!

Paste flux is fine for learning just get a little paintbrush to apply it. generally we only use paste as a mixer for powdered solder as liquid flux is less time consuming.

 

[Ferd]

I don't know how to test for shorts.

That’s the easiest thing, you chose continuity mode and wait for the beep , basically a short is a zero homs link , diode mode makes sure you’re ready one way which is useful when testing chips and transistors

I also do not understand how to bypass the 3.3v regulator or whatever that was from those articles. If I understand it right, I have to desolder PIN 28 from the programmer chip, lift it, make sure it makes no contact with the board, and connect it by wire to 2 other "ends". I'm not sure if that'll make it a 3.3v programmer. I don't understand it well...

Yes it will make the signals voltage go from 5v to 3.3v , and yes that’s exactly what you do , that guide is very clear

 

[ThunderSoul]

Paste flux is fine for learning just get a little paintbrush to apply it. generally we only use paste as a mixer for powdered solder as liquid flux is less time consuming.

Paintbrush is enough? Do I need a special brush or anything like that?