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New build. A little advice.

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#1
Hi all.

You've probably been asked this many times but here goes.
My Wife's cousin made me an offer I couldn't refuse for my Coffee Lake gear so off it goes to a new home this weekend.
Now I'd like to go with an AMD setup as I've never owned one before. I'm not being a skinflint but I do tend to purchase PC items that end up being total overkill for my needs.
The rig would be used for light gaming and video editing. Overclocking to the hilt isn't neccesary because I found some apps would freeze up if I bumped my i7-8700k past 4.8GHz, great for some I guess, but no good for me if I want a PC that runs smoothly and virtually fault free.
All advice is welcome.
 
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#2
I hear ya fella I to used to be my own worst salesman go out to build a system come back spending a lot more than I planed once all setup I thought fantastic this awesome then followed by but I don't even need a PC this good lol I would do that probs twice a year at least after 24 years the penny dropped

you should find plenty of good advice here.
 
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#3
Hi @OutThereSomewhere :)

Daft questions now but what sort of price/budget do you have to build a system with? Will you need, mouse, keyboard, monitor etc? What res is your monitor and what are you looking to do with it are my questions for you :)
 
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#4
I hear ya fella I to used to be my own worst salesman go out to build a system come back spending a lot more than I planed once all setup I thought fantastic this awesome then followed by but I don't even need a PC this good lol I would do that probs twice a year at least after 24 years the penny dropped

you should find plenty of good advice here.

Yeah I've done it so many times and regretted it. And regretted it, and regretted it.............
Should have stuck with one of the few Xeon's I used to use. Lesson slowly but surely being learnt.
I've seen so many say the AMD setup's are the way to go if you don't fancy Intel making you beg for spare change on the street when their new CPU's comes out.

Hi @OutThereSomewhere :)

Daft questions now but what sort of price/budget do you have to build a system with? Will you need, mouse, keyboard, monitor etc? What res is your monitor and what are you looking to do with it are my questions for you :)
Hi Phill,

No not a daft question. Should have said that in my opener.
Around £1000 would be good. I already have a GPU, mouse, keyboard, monitors (too many of em) but would also like to bump my memory up to something a little faster than 2400MHz
So a cooler + RAM + CPU + Mobo is what I'm after. I'm not rolling with the 4K mob yet so anything that will cope with 1080p video is all I'd need for the time being.
 
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#5
im not really the best to ask for new parts mainly because most, if not all new hardware you can buy today would be more than I need to spend on a system and the system would be more than I need.

That why I rock an old low end second hand parts PC today, its all I need and does what I need, so I don't bother really looking at new hardware like I used to, then get sucked in by all the mouth watering advertising lol them days are long gone
 
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#6
im not really the best to ask for new parts mainly because most, if not all new hardware you can buy today would be more than I need to spend on a system and the system would be more than I need.

That why I rock an old low end second hand parts PC today, its all I need and does what I need, so I don't bother really looking at new hardware like I used to, then get sucked in by all the mouth watering advertising lol them days are long gone
I used to do the same but thought I'd give some new hardware a try. A mistake IMO since I only play some low end games.
Should have got a used Xeon setup when prices were reasonable :/
Would still like to give an AMD setup a try.
 
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#7
Your 8700k shouldn't have been freezing at an OC of just 4.8ghz. You must have had some settings wrong. Almost every chip I've used has hit 5ghz no problem, with 1.4v max. It's golden chips that hit 5.2 or above, but unless you had an exceptionally bad silicon, 4.8 should be a walk in the part as that's literally just changing the all core boost to the same as single core. My advice is to wait for 9700/9900k or Zen 2, as you really won't see an improvement over the 8700k by switching to Ryzen right now. Sure, their multi is slightly better (OC Ryzen vs OC Intel), but Intel is around 20% faster for single so it evens out. With Zen 2 on 7nm, and Intel still on 14nm for 9xxx, I think that's where Ryzen will have the performance advantage, and not just the price.

What you'll find is that even still on 14nm, the 8c/8t or 8c/16t will have both single and multi core performance advantages over Ryzen+ even at stock, and OC'd it will be significantly faster.

So it's up to you, IMO either go for 9th gen Intel now or wait for Ryzen 2, don't buy a Ryzen+ system at this moment.
 

eidairaman1

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#8
I used to do the same but thought I'd give some new hardware a try. A mistake IMO since I only play some low end games.
Should have got a used Xeon setup when prices were reasonable :/
Would still like to give an AMD setup a try.
This for you or the Mrs?
 
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#9
It all depends on what you do., at what % and what apps favor each platform ... also what monitor assuming you keeping peripherals ?

On your 4.8 OC, have you upped the voltage sufficiently ?

At the least, cut ya PSU size way down, drop the CLC cooler of course.

For gaming, Intel 8700k performs about 3.5% faster outta the box and that lead grows a lot due to Intel's huge overclocking headroom.

For image / video editing, Intel / nVidia (CUDA) has the edge .... with Adobe Products. I imagine other apps may like Ryzen 2700x better.

Unfortnately CPU Shortages, overstock of nVidia cards have prevented the post mining craze, price reductions we were all expecting. And for us in USA, the tariiffs have made new build planning a "later" kinda thing. At some point, these companies are going to sacrifice profits to keep the doors open. I'd sit tight for a while and see who blinks.
 
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#10
Hi Phill,

No not a daft question. Should have said that in my opener.
Around £1000 would be good. I already have a GPU, mouse, keyboard, monitors (too many of em) but would also like to bump my memory up to something a little faster than 2400MHz
So a cooler + RAM + CPU + Mobo is what I'm after. I'm not rolling with the 4K mob yet so anything that will cope with 1080p video is all I'd need for the time being.
So depending on whether you prefer to have an AMD or Intel setup, I'd just go for one and you'd be covered. I've recently picked up some bargain 1700X Ryzen CPUs for my girl friend and daughter at £150 each, for that price there was nothing that came close for the sheer horse power that the CPUs have.
Most of the newer CPUs do like some faster ram, but I think anything really up to 3600Mhz would be perfectly fine, I do believe there's a bit of a cut off where if you go further the cost out weights the extra performance. It might only be a few % as it is anyways, so just spend once and get what you want is my advise :) Make sure you get some that's B die, as it'll clock better but it will cost a little more. Personally I stick with G Skill but each to their own :) Timings around 15-15-15- would give away the B die ram :)

Have you got anything in mind at the moment you're leaning towards? :)
 
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#11
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#12
If you are going for an AMD build I would recommend at least a R7 1700x or the 2700X coming form an 8700K. It is subjective but I find that As Rock has the best support and layout for AM4. The X470 Killer SLI is a great board. Flare X RAM is great but also pricey. I can confirm that the Ripjaws V also work with AM4 with their stock settings. Asus boards are good but the PrIme boards do not come with a BIOS chip so it is easy to brick your board while updating the BIOS. Gigabyte is good in terms of layout but I have never owned a Gigabyte board that has lasted more than 2 years. The AS Rock X470 Taichi is one of the best boards but it comes with a huge caveat if you want wireless. The card in the Taichi is the Intel 3268. The Killer at least has the Intel 8260. I cannot comment on MSI because I have not used any of their AM4 boards. The stock coolers are great on Ryzen but there are lots of options for cooling. Personally I like the Alphacool Eisbaer AIOs as they are expandable.
 
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#13
Asrock make the best price/quality motherboards, it's really that simple. Some other boards can have more features, or *might* oc a little easier, or are more bling. However Asrock boards generally have very solid VRMs and audio, and are great all-rounders. I think I said it all in my last post, but if you are buying AMD just because it's AMD then there's not much point to asking advice. Always go for the best option regardless of brand.
 
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#14
Your 8700k shouldn't have been freezing at an OC of just 4.8ghz. You must have had some settings wrong. Almost every chip I've used has hit 5ghz no problem, with 1.4v max. It's golden chips that hit 5.2 or above, but unless you had an exceptionally bad silicon, 4.8 should be a walk in the part as that's literally just changing the all core boost to the same as single core. My advice is to wait for 9700/9900k or Zen 2, as you really won't see an improvement over the 8700k by switching to Ryzen right now. Sure, their multi is slightly better (OC Ryzen vs OC Intel), but Intel is around 20% faster for single so it evens out. With Zen 2 on 7nm, and Intel still on 14nm for 9xxx, I think that's where Ryzen will have the performance advantage, and not just the price.

What you'll find is that even still on 14nm, the 8c/8t or 8c/16t will have both single and multi core performance advantages over Ryzen+ even at stock, and OC'd it will be significantly faster.

So it's up to you, IMO either go for 9th gen Intel now or wait for Ryzen 2, don't buy a Ryzen+ system at this moment.
I know but it's a random problem. It can hit 5.1ghz but apps would crtash, or windows would freeze. I OC'd both RAM and CPU together one time and all was good. Now I can't do that, it's either the RAM OC or the CPU OC separately. Personally I think it's a bios update issue. They say these new updates are for stability, should have learnt from my X99 setup that some bios updates break things.

Tanks for the information. I think I'll wait for Ryzen 2 :)

This for you or the Mrs?
For me.

It all depends on what you do., at what % and what apps favor each platform ... also what monitor assuming you keeping peripherals ?

On your 4.8 OC, have you upped the voltage sufficiently ?

At the least, cut ya PSU size way down, drop the CLC cooler of course.

For gaming, Intel 8700k performs about 3.5% faster outta the box and that lead grows a lot due to Intel's huge overclocking headroom.

For image / video editing, Intel / nVidia (CUDA) has the edge .... with Adobe Products. I imagine other apps may like Ryzen 2700x better.

Unfortnately CPU Shortages, overstock of nVidia cards have prevented the post mining craze, price reductions we were all expecting. And for us in USA, the tariiffs have made new build planning a "later" kinda thing. At some point, these companies are going to sacrifice profits to keep the doors open. I'd sit tight for a while and see who blinks.
Video editing. I'm keeping my two 1080p monitors so the mobo, cpu and ram is all I would need.

Yes the voltage was upped but still the issue remains. Might go back to the previous bios because it was stable and problem free.
I still have a 980 ti FTW and it's still smashing through any workload. I'm eyeing a 1080ti but would only really get it if this 980 croaked it.

Gaming is something I rarely do, and when I do it's something that would run on a low end GT card :/

That's good advice because as soon as the RTX range of cards was announced the stores here in the UK put their 1000 series cards up to release prices.
Fingers crossed the prices come down.

So depending on whether you prefer to have an AMD or Intel setup, I'd just go for one and you'd be covered. I've recently picked up some bargain 1700X Ryzen CPUs for my girl friend and daughter at £150 each, for that price there was nothing that came close for the sheer horse power that the CPUs have.
Most of the newer CPUs do like some faster ram, but I think anything really up to 3600Mhz would be perfectly fine, I do believe there's a bit of a cut off where if you go further the cost out weights the extra performance. It might only be a few % as it is anyways, so just spend once and get what you want is my advise :) Make sure you get some that's B die, as it'll clock better but it will cost a little more. Personally I stick with G Skill but each to their own :) Timings around 15-15-15- would give away the B die ram :)

Have you got anything in mind at the moment you're leaning towards? :)
Thanks @phill

Yeah I saw the low Ryzen prices and was tempted. I'd like to go for the Threadripper because cost and cores makes sense over what Intel has on offer.

I have Crucial Ballistix @2400mhz, a little old now but still overclockable. Only problem is the lack of hardware reviews when it comes to things like video and photo editing.
Everything seems geard towards gaming.

As some have advised it would be better to sit it out and wait for the next Ryzen offering. (Still tempted by Threadripper while the prices are low)

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/wtRZGG
if you'd like blink remove flire and take trident
if you dont care for the blink remove trident and take flire
Cheers mate. Looks good. Decision, desicions.
 
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#15
If you are only doing video editing Ryzen is the clear choice.....depending on the program. Having said that the amount of programs that utilize Ryzen near to it's potential is only growing consistently. in between BIOS updates, driver updates and micro code updates AMD has really impressed.
 
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#16
If you are going for an AMD build I would recommend at least a R7 1700x or the 2700X coming form an 8700K. It is subjective but I find that As Rock has the best support and layout for AM4. The X470 Killer SLI is a great board. Flare X RAM is great but also pricey. I can confirm that the Ripjaws V also work with AM4 with their stock settings. Asus boards are good but the PrIme boards do not come with a BIOS chip so it is easy to brick your board while updating the BIOS. Gigabyte is good in terms of layout but I have never owned a Gigabyte board that has lasted more than 2 years. The AS Rock X470 Taichi is one of the best boards but it comes with a huge caveat if you want wireless. The card in the Taichi is the Intel 3268. The Killer at least has the Intel 8260. I cannot comment on MSI because I have not used any of their AM4 boards. The stock coolers are great on Ryzen but there are lots of options for cooling. Personally I like the Alphacool Eisbaer AIOs as they are expandable.
I've never owned an AS Rock mobo before. A friend has one for his AMD flying simulator setup and swears by them. I've only ever owned Asus mainly + a Gigabye mobo a few years back.

Thanks for all the info, really appreciate it.

If you are only doing video editing Ryzen is the clear choice.....depending on the program. Having said that the amount of programs that utilize Ryzen near to it's potential is only growing consistently. in between BIOS updates, driver updates and micro code updates AMD has really impressed.
Thanks @kapone32.

I will go with AMD for my next build. Should have skipped Coffee Lake and gone Ryen when they hit the stores.
Lesson learned I guess although the 8700k when ruuning smoothly does impress. Would like those extra cores for a decent price. Something Intel isn't offereing.
 
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#17
I've never owned an AS Rock mobo before. A friend has one for his AMD flying simulator setup and swears by them. I've only ever owned Asus mainly + a Gigabye mobo a few years back.

Thanks for all the info, really appreciate it.



Thanks @kapone32.

I will go with AMD for my next build. Should have skipped Coffee Lake and gone Ryen when they hit the stores.
Lesson learned I guess although the 8700k when ruuning smoothly does impress. Would like those extra cores for a decent price. Something Intel isn't offereing.
Yeah apprently the 9900K will be $500.00 US
 
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#18
Thanks @phill

Yeah I saw the low Ryzen prices and was tempted. I'd like to go for the Threadripper because cost and cores makes sense over what Intel has on offer.

I have Crucial Ballistix @2400mhz, a little old now but still overclockable. Only problem is the lack of hardware reviews when it comes to things like video and photo editing.
Everything seems geard towards gaming.

As some have advised it would be better to sit it out and wait for the next Ryzen offering. (Still tempted by Threadripper while the prices are low)

Cheers mate. Looks good. Decision, desicions.
A friend who does a lot of video work, recently bought a Threadripper 1950X, he reckons from his dual X5675's he can't tell much difference in the video and rendering work he does but a few tests he's run and such say much different..
When I do another build for myself, I'll be going Threadripper I think.. The amount of cores and performance they give are amazing, even though I'd be mostly gaming on it, 1440P or 4k wouldn't really make much of a difference nor would I care so much as I'm not wanting the top 0.5% of maximum frame rates.. Anything really at the moment over 60fps or 100fps depending on game, I'm very happy with :) To be honest, I'd just rather buy AMD now over Intel.. It's just the same old with Intel CPUs.. 5% at best improvement and that's it.. But that's just my opinion...

The newer Threadrippers do manage 2933Mhz on the ram and I think I'm right in saying that I believe the newer 2xxx series Ryzen's do the same.. 3600Mhz is just what I'd consider middle ground when it comes to the new highs of 4800Mhz ram I've seen on sale soon....
 
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#19
If you've got 1k spend, and time to waste, a wait a little longer for 9th gen to eviscerate Ryzen and 8th gen prices to drop from their current highs. If no time to waste and you need the PC to be snappy, Intel is your friend for high performance gear. If you're really feeling the team Red spirit, get a 2700X and a X470 motherboard with decent VRM's, and maybe s'more RAM (@3200MHZ nonetheless)
 
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#20
Yeah apprently the 9900K will be $500.00 US
That'll be £500 here in the UK. Or $659.94. We aren't called Rip Off Britain for nothing :/

A friend who does a lot of video work, recently bought a Threadripper 1950X, he reckons from his dual X5675's he can't tell much difference in the video and rendering work he does but a few tests he's run and such say much different..
When I do another build for myself, I'll be going Threadripper I think.. The amount of cores and performance they give are amazing, even though I'd be mostly gaming on it, 1440P or 4k wouldn't really make much of a difference nor would I care so much as I'm not wanting the top 0.5% of maximum frame rates.. Anything really at the moment over 60fps or 100fps depending on game, I'm very happy with :) To be honest, I'd just rather buy AMD now over Intel.. It's just the same old with Intel CPUs.. 5% at best improvement and that's it.. But that's just my opinion...

The newer Threadrippers do manage 2933Mhz on the ram and I think I'm right in saying that I believe the newer 2xxx series Ryzen's do the same.. 3600Mhz is just what I'd consider middle ground when it comes to the new highs of 4800Mhz ram I've seen on sale soon....
Thanks again @phill

Always good to get a comparison from real users :)

If you've got 1k spend, and time to waste, a wait a little longer for 9th gen to eviscerate Ryzen and 8th gen prices to drop from their current highs. If no time to waste and you need the PC to be snappy, Intel is your friend for high performance gear. If you're really feeling the team Red spirit, get a 2700X and a X470 motherboard with decent VRM's, and maybe s'more RAM (@3200MHZ nonetheless)

Thanks.

Yep looking towards AMD at present because Intel don't seem to be offering anything really that new.
ASUS is what I usually buy but I can be swayed. I might be wrong but I'm sure someone once said MSI have the best VRM's on the market?
 
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#21
The thing about Threadripper and AMD in general is that sure, you've got tons of cores, but they are about 30% slower (1950x core compared to 8700k, both OC). So even for video editing, which surprisingly can actually be faster on an Intel k chip, due to the integrated gpu providing hardware acceleration, the Threadripper chips don't perform as expected. Most software, especially adobe software, loves single thread performance, and can take advantage of multithreaded performance in specific use cases. Take a look at render times comparisons
.
 
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#22
That'll be £500 here in the UK. Or $659.94. We aren't called Rip Off Britain for nothing :/

Thanks again @phill

Always good to get a comparison from real users :)
Thanks.

Yep looking towards AMD at present because Intel don't seem to be offering anything really that new.
ASUS is what I usually buy but I can be swayed. I might be wrong but I'm sure someone once said MSI have the best VRM's on the market?
It's more like £600 over here...

I'll see what I can do, he's rather busy and never really replies unless he wants to talk about something he wants lol :)
 
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#23
https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/jX99f8
Substitute the 8700k for the 9700k or the 9900k.
If you want, substitute the z370 Taichi for the z390 which is slightly better.

Best RAM, best air cooler, best CPU, arguably best mobo.

And it's not the best RAM because it looks nice, but because it's very tight timings and high quality B die Samsung memory.
 

eidairaman1

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#24
That'll be £500 here in the UK. Or $659.94. We aren't called Rip Off Britain for nothing :/



Thanks again @phill

Always good to get a comparison from real users :)




Thanks.

Yep looking towards AMD at present because Intel don't seem to be offering anything really that new.
ASUS is what I usually buy but I can be swayed. I might be wrong but I'm sure someone once said MSI have the best VRM's on the market?
Wrong on vrms, that's between Asus and AsRock. MSI and Gigabyte have been cutting corners since 2013 at this rate.
 
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#25
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