[Official] HP Reverb G2

[Dux]

Hey. I just pre-ordered the upcoming HP Reverb G2. Should arrive to me in late November. Sold my Rift S earlier this year and this thing seems like a nice upgrade. Was thinking about Quest 2, but after watching many videos and written previews, i realized G2 is much better for PCVR and better build quality overall.

 

[xkm1948]

I agree Reverb G2 is amazing in terms of clarity. Insane clarity.

 

[f22a4bandit]

I agree Reverb G2 is amazing in terms of clarity. Insane clarity.

Wow, that is an amazing comparison. The G2 just looks sooo much sharper. Meanwhile, the Quest 2 looks washed out and quite blurry.

 

[xkm1948]

Wow, that is an amazing comparison. The G2 just looks sooo much sharper. Meanwhile, the Quest 2 looks washed out and quite blurry.

Quest2 through USB link has to compress the data before sending to HMD, then the Snapdragon SOC on the Quest2 decompress the data. It seems there are quite a lot more room for improvement here for Quest 2 regarding their compression technology.

 

[Space Lynx]

I'm surprised how much better it looks than the 1 grand Index... lol hmm I might pre-order this now.

 

[xkm1948]

I'm surprised how much better it looks than the 1 grand Index... lol hmm I might pre-order this now.

Index has 120Hz ~ 144Hz refresh rate as the upper hand. Smooth motion is also important for a good VR experience.

Ideally i want dual 8K screen at 240Hz refresh rate and full body tracking using light house.

 

[Space Lynx]

Index has 120Hz ~ 144Hz refresh rate as the upper hand. Smooth motion is also important for a good VR experience.

Ideally i want dual 8K screen at 240Hz refresh rate and full body tracking using light house.

yeah I would really need to use them side by side before i could say which would be the winner for me. i have no room for Index though as my bedroom is small, so the reverb g2 makes more sense for me. I really want to play star wars squadrons in VR... i might get this... i just wish i could buy it from somewhere other than hp's outsourced website called Connection store... seems iffy if i need to return it. lol

 

[Dux]

This is a video on how to use the Index controllers with the G2.

 

[Mindweaver]

I'm curious to see how well the G2 sells compared to the Index. I'm a little upset they didn't figure out a way to make knuckle controllers that uses G2 windows mixed reality tracking.
Also, just to clear up any confusion over why it's a rule not to just post videos or pictures without any context is because it helps validate you being a real person and not just spam. @Ahhzz and I agree that this could be a good thread to continue the conversation of the G2.

 

[Whitestar]

Is pixel rendering on HMDs vs monitors an apples-to-apples comparison?

For example: The Rift S is 1280x1440 (x2) which is 1440p. So if a game runs at say 95fps on a 1440p monitor then can I expect that same performance on the Rift S? Or are there some optimizations in place for the HMDs (apart from that feature were Hz is cut in half – can't remember the name,sorry)?

 

[xkm1948]

Is pixel rendering on HMDs vs monitors an apples-to-apples comparison?

For example: The Rift S is 1280x1440 (x2) which is 1440p. So if a game runs at say 95fps on a 1440p monitor then can I expect that same performance on the Rift S? Or are there some optimizations in place for the HMDs (apart from that feature were Hz is cut in half – can't remember the name,sorry)?

A little bit different. On monitor you are not involving all your spatial awareness sensory so dips in FPS, or stuttering, is a lot more tolerable.

In VR, your vision is directly coordinated to your entire body's motion, FPS dipping usually leads to nauseating. So for VR, you would want to aim for a constant and consistent minimum of 90FPS. That is asking the 1% and 0.1% lows to be always above 90FPS which is a lot harder to acheive than just average 90FPS.

Modern VR headsets and softwares have a lot of trickery to maintain that buttersmooth 90+FPS.

In short, VR graphics push your GPU a lot harder versus pancake monitor gaming.

 

[Franzen4Real]

I agree Reverb G2 is amazing in terms of clarity. Insane clarity.

While the G2 certainly takes the overall clarity on pretty much every example, even more noticeable to me was the colors/black levels. They are WAY better than both the Index and Q2. The overall quality looks phenomenal. If the godrays/mura are under control, that's going to be one heck of an hmd. I got my notification from HP that my pre-order will ship in November so here's to hoping what they really meant November 1st (haha). After watching the video, the Q2 is actually not as far behind as what I would have guessed (in straight up resolution). The screen door effect is far better than the Index, but it does have a softer look to it than the G2. Considering the $299 price point, that's some very nice quality as well as having a tethered/untethered option. I am really curious about a wireless connection via WiFi6 on the Q2. To me when we are talking this level of clarity to begin with, untethered with slightly less quality is a bigger deal than tethered and higher quality.

 

[Mindweaver]

While the G2 certainly takes the overall clarity on pretty much every example, even more noticeable to me was the colors/black levels. They are WAY better than both the Index and Q2. The overall quality looks phenomenal. If the godrays/mura are under control, that's going to be one heck of an hmd. I got my notification from HP that my pre-order will ship in November so here's to hoping what they really meant November 1st (haha). After watching the video, the Q2 is actually not as far behind as what I would have guessed (in straight up resolution). The screen door effect is far better than the Index, but it does have a softer look to it than the G2. Considering the $299 price point, that's some very nice quality as well as having a tethered/untethered option. I am really curious about a wireless connection via WiFi6 on the Q2. To me when we are talking this level of clarity to begin with, untethered with slightly less quality is a bigger deal than tethered and higher quality.

Yeah G2 will be amazing, but Quest 2 is so close with better controllers and wireless 90hz. Also, the comparison isn't 100% because Link is still in beta so the resolution will still get better and it's locked in at 72hz atm. I watched videos of Mike (Virtual Reality Oasis) and PD (Paradise Decay) say that wireless using Virtual Desktop is better than Link in clarity and even Guy Godin (Virtual Desktop) said he is still not fully using wifi 6. He is still capped at 150 Mbps. I'm pretty excited for next Tuesday to test it out. I just hate having to buy Virtual Desktop again.. haha I've bought it for Gear VR and from Steam already. I did see that My Oculus PCVR Store purchase of the 3 Vader experiences will transfer to Quest. I need to check the rest of my games as well.

But with that said the G2 will still be king of sims because you are not moving around physically. I'm still scratching my head why they couldn't have modded the Index controllers to work with the G2 since Valve helped them develop it, but having Index audio is huge IMO.

 

[Franzen4Real]

I watched videos of Mike (Virtual Reality Oasis) and PD (Paradise Decay) say that wireless using Virtual Desktop is better than Link in clarity and even Guy Godin (Virtual Desktop) said he is still not fully using wifi 6. He is still capped at 150 Mbps.

Sorry, what I meant by "To me when we are talking this level of clarity to begin with, untethered with slightly less quality is a bigger deal than tethered and higher quality" was a wireless Q2 vs. a tethered G2. I think that at the end of the day I will prefer the wireless over all out clarity for most situations.

I'm pretty excited for next Tuesday to test it out. I just hate having to buy Virtual Desktop again.. haha I've bought it for Gear VR and from Steam already. I did see that My Oculus PCVR Store purchase of the 3 Vader experiences will transfer to Quest. I need to check the rest of my games as well.

Not sure if I mentioned, but I did already break down and offload my Q1 and Go to pre-order a Q2 as well...I knew it was only going to be a matter of time, I'm weak like that sometimes... The G2 will stay back in my office hooked up to my main workstation for sims, and the Q2 will be for wireless living room VR where I have plenty of room to move around and also to take to friends houses.

 

[Mindweaver]

Sorry, what I meant by "To me when we are talking this level of clarity to begin with, untethered with slightly less quality is a bigger deal than tethered and higher quality" was a wireless Q2 vs. a tethered G2. I think that at the end of the day I will prefer the wireless over all out clarity for most situations.

Yeah, I think a lot of people are going to go for wireless for that very reason.

Not sure if I mentioned, but I did already break down and offload my Q1 and Go to pre-order a Q2 as well...I knew it was only going to be a matter of time, I'm weak like that sometimes... The G2 will stay back in my office hooked up to my main workstation for sims, and the Q2 will be for wireless living room VR where I have plenty of room to move around and also to take to friends houses.

Nice! Paradise Decay has been showing videos of him playing wireless PCVR with the Quest 2 in other rooms than his pc. In one of them, he actual went out to his car and tested it. It looks like 8 developers have updated their games to take advantage of the Quest 2 hardware like Arizona Sunshine.

 

[Dux]

I really hope some people cancel their pre-order of G2 over at German Bestware, so i get my G2 sooner. The more i read about Quest2, the less i like it. Seems like the only advantage it has over G2 is being wireless. Everything else (build quality, comfort, picture quality, sound quality, no obligatory FB account) is on G2 side. Yes, Q2 seems half the price at first, but when you consider how much lower quality and comfort it is, and that FB will earn money on selling your private data to advertisors and god knows who else, it is actually very expensive. I have enough space for sitting and standing VR games anyways. No room scale. Plus, playing Oculus games on G2 is apparently very simple.

 

[Mindweaver]

I really hope some people cancel their pre-order of G2 over at German Bestware, so i get my G2 sooner. The more i read about Quest2, the less i like it. Seems like the only advantage it has over G2 is being wireless. Everything else (build quality, comfort, picture quality, sound quality, no obligatory FB account) is on G2 side. Yes, Q2 seems half the price at first, but when you consider how much lower quality and comfort it is, and that FB will earn money on selling your private data to advertisors and god knows who else, it is actually very expensive. I have enough space for sitting and standing VR games anyways. No room scale. Plus, playing Oculus games on G2 is apparently very simple.

The G2 is a highend PCVR HMD. I don't think Quest 2 will be a much lower experience just because it's cheaper. Clearly FB is losing money on the hardware and is banking on the software sales. Everyone so far has really liked the Quest 2 other than the soft strap it comes with out of the box. But with that said if you want the best sim VR HMD then the G2 is a better fit. I just don't think it's necessary to degrade the Quest 2 for targeting a cheaper entry in to VR. The only thing I don't like about the G2 is the controllers and if Valve drops the price of the Index to anything near the G2 then it will kill the sells of the HP Reverb G2. If Valve refines their manufacturing process and starts meeting demand then we could see a price drop, but not before. Either way, the G2 should be an amazing HMD. HP should be able to keep up with manufacturing better than Valve with the Index.

 

[Octavean]

The G2 is a highend PCVR HMD. I don't think Quest 2 will be a much lower experience just because it's cheaper. Clearly FB is losing money on the hardware and is banking on the software sales. Everyone so far has really liked the Quest 2 other than the soft strap it comes with out of the box. But with that said if you want the best sim VR HMD then the G2 is a better fit. I just don't think it's necessary to degrade the Quest 2 for targeting a cheaper entry in to VR. The only thing I don't like about the G2 is the controllers and if Valve drops the price of the Index to anything near the G2 then it will kill the sells of the HP Reverb G2. If Valve refines their manufacturing process and starts meeting demand then we could see a price drop, but not before. Either way, the G2 should be an amazing HMD. HP should be able to keep up with manufacturing better than Valve with the Index.

You actually make a good point here.

If Valve were to make the Index cheaper it would be a force to be reckoned with. They probably could get it close to G2 pricing if they tried.

 

[Mindweaver]

You actually make a good point here.

If Valve were to make the Index cheaper it would be a force to be reckoned with. They probably could get it close to G2 pricing if they tried.

Yeah, I can't wait for the Index to drop in price and this is Valve which has done that with all of their hardware at some point. I think the only thing holding them back from dropping the price is just not being able to meet demand, but back orders are not that far out. I hope the G2 does well and it should because Valve helped build it, but I would pick an Index over a G2 any day if the price was close.

 

[xkm1948]

Yeah, I can't wait for the Index to drop in price and this is Valve which has done that with all of their hardware at some point. I think the only thing holding them back from dropping the price is just not being able to meet demand, but back orders are not that far out. I hope the G2 does well and it should because Valve helped build it, but I would pick an Index over a G2 any day if the price was close.

I dont think Valve will lower Index price. That was made to show the what could be achieved for a VR flagship HMD.

G2 price is good enough. I agree it would be killer if Index controllers can be used with G2.

 

[Mindweaver]

I dont think Valve will lower Index price. That was made to show the what could be achieved for a VR flagship HMD.

G2 price is good enough. I agree it would be killer if Index controllers can be used with G2.

That's a good point, but it's Valve.. lol I would love to see what they are using now at Valve. The Index evolved very rapidly. You can technically use Index controllers with the G2 but at a hefty price. You need 2 light houses and 2 usb dongles to connect the Index controllers to your pc which puts the G2 at a much higher price than the index.. but posible.

 

[xkm1948]

I want the PCVR to meet Quest2 in terms of Wireless. The moment that happens I will be upgrading.

120Hz or 144Hz, 4k per eye, wireless and great tracking. Make it happen!!

 

[Dux]

wireless is the future. But chips in headsets must become much more capable of decompressing data stream. Quest uses only 150Mbit. And that is the limit of onboard processor. Not your USB port or link cable. IDK about XR2. Anyways, the era of wireless headsets will truly begin when Wifi 6E becomes available and widespread. It brings more bandwidth with very low latency. And low latency is very important for VR. But still, decompression is what adds most latency. And you can't compare Q2 with G2 simply by looking at display resolutions. Even if both headsets had 2160x2160 per eye, G2 would still look much better because of uncompressed data stream.
Q2 has wifi 6. Playstation 5 has wifi 6. I'm sure Q3 will have wifi 6E and Playstation 5 Pro (which will come one day, I'm sure) will probably have wifi 6E

Qualcomm Says New Wi-Fi 6E Chips Support "VR-class low latency" for VR Streaming

Qualcomm today announced new Wi-Fi 6E wireless chips. Designed for mobile devices, the company says the chips support “VR-class latency” for streaming VR over Wi-Fi. Qualcomm’s new FastConnect 6900 and 6700 chips are designed to bring the latest Wi-Fi 6E standard to Snapdragon-based mobile...

www.roadtovr.com

 

[Octavean]

I dont think Valve will lower Index price. That was made to show the what could be achieved for a VR flagship HMD.

G2 price is good enough. I agree it would be killer if Index controllers can be used with G2.

Ah but past actions are the best indicator of future actions.

IIRC HTC partnered with Valve to develop the HTC Vive and some derivative HTC VR HMD's benefited from it. Valve jumped in the market with the Valve Index and now HTC has removed themselves from the retail segment of the market presumably because they simply can't complete.

It really wouldn't take much for Valve to make a cheaper HMD even if they designed one with inside out tracking.

Or,.....

While I don't think its technically possible, what if the Valve Index HMD can use its front port to add in stand alone HMD support and inside out tracking,.......?

 

[Mindweaver]

wireless is the future. But chips in headsets must become much more capable of decompressing data stream. Quest uses only 150Mbit. And that is the limit of onboard processor. Not your USB port or link cable. IDK about XR2. Anyways, the era of wireless headsets will truly begin when Wifi 6E becomes available and widespread. It brings more bandwidth with very low latency. And low latency is very important for VR. But still, decompression is what adds most latency. And you can't compare Q2 with G2 simply by looking at display resolutions. Even if both headsets had 2160x2160 per eye, G2 would still look much better because of uncompressed data stream.
Q2 has wifi 6. Playstation 5 has wifi 6. I'm sure Q3 will have wifi 6E and Playstation 5 Pro (which will come one day, I'm sure) will probably have wifi 6E

Qualcomm Says New Wi-Fi 6E Chips Support "VR-class low latency" for VR Streaming

Qualcomm today announced new Wi-Fi 6E wireless chips. Designed for mobile devices, the company says the chips support “VR-class latency” for streaming VR over Wi-Fi. Qualcomm’s new FastConnect 6900 and 6700 chips are designed to bring the latest Wi-Fi 6E standard to Snapdragon-based mobile...

www.roadtovr.com

I don't think we will have to wait for wifi 6e. Sure it will be nice, but even Carmack said it's not as important as you think. Carmack thinks it's good enough now that Oculus could officially support it. Youtubers are reporting around a 5% degration in quality with virtual desktop using 150mbps and they are preferring it over tethered for the freedom to move around. Wired will always be better visually as VR games get better, but it should be good enough. I can't wait to try it and like you said it will only get better once we are using Wifi 6.

Ah but past actions are the best indicator of future actions.

IIRC HTC partnered with Valve to develop the HTC Vive and some derivative HTC VR HMD's benefited from it. Valve jumped in the market with the Valve Index and now HTC has removed themselves from the retail segment of the market presumably because they simply can't complete.

It really wouldn't take much for Valve to make a cheaper HMD even if they designed one with inside out tracking.

Or,.....

While I don't think its technically possible, what if the Valve Index HMD can use its front port to add in stand alone HMD support and inside out tracking,.......?

I don't think Valve is interested in making a cheap VR HMD and I doubt they are interested in competing with FB, but I do see them continue making highend VR HMDs. In past interviews with Valve they have hinted on wireless. I'm still suprised we haven't seen anything useful other than a fan for the frunk. I think covid really hurt the potential of the frunk and the index itself. I think their cheap option will still be the G2, but I could see the Index dropping to 799 at some point or a new HMD altogether.