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Official WoW Cataclysm Thread

I got the beta today !

:rockout::rockout::rockout:
 
BondExtreme said:
In the above post I made bro. ;) Unfortunately though they JUST delayed the patch today..:eek:

But yeah I quit in Feb this past year and will be coming back soon. I don't know when though. I may come back as soon as patch 4.0.1 hits or maybe 4.0.2.

You are right though when you say they will make leveling a bit less stressful and a lot more fun. Every zone is changed and they are adding LOADS of quests even for the low levels. :respect:

Btw, what server are you on, olithereal?
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I'm currently on Deathwing. Used to play on Shattered Hands.
 
v12dock said:
Shattered Hand.. Horde?! Thats where I play
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No way! Yes, I was Horde. Been in Hit List for a while....when the guild was alive and actually pvp'ing.

Ps. Still Horde on Deathwing.
 
*sigh* Why can't anyone ever be in my battlegroup? lol I play as horde on Korgath. It's in Vengeance. If you guys where, you would be feeling the wrath of my new shadowy apparition. xD
 
BondExtreme said:
*sigh* Why can't anyone ever be in my battlegroup? lol I play as horde on Korgath. It's in Vengeance. If you guys where, you would be feeling the wrath of my new shadowy apparition. xD
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Dems sound like fighting words... :D


come on the PTR, ill take you on :rockout::pimp:


i currently have all my toons on alliance,
lesoul
lewarlock
lefire
ledruid
lewarrior
lehunty
lepaladin
and DEXXTY! :D, bonus points for guessing the correct class for dexty and lesoul.


i used to play on Dath Remar, US - Ocianic servers. Warlock Druid and Shaman :D... stoped playing last december... lucky the PTR is free.... think i might start playing again with cataclysm tho.
 
v12dock said:
Ahh Hit list lol, I was in the TOP pvp guild back in the day... New Age of Craft
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Good times! Relentless are still going at it?
 
Anyone on Reckoning battlegroup? :\

<--- firetree
 
v12dock said:
Relentless is no more. Downtime is the top raiding guild, and Ruin all day baby
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Relentless no more? Meh, not surprising with the terrible raiding content in Wrath...heh. Ruin was a cool BG, horde sucked massive dicks in AV though.
 
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Only collectors edition I regret not getting is the original, I still want a damn Mini Diablo.
 
BIG NEWS!

Our release date of December 7th is confirmed ladies and gents!

World of Warcraft(R): Cataclysm(TM) in Stores Starting December 7
IRVINE, Calif., Oct 04, 2010 (BUSINESS WIRE) — Blizzard Entertainment, Inc. today announced that World of Warcraft(R): Cataclysm(TM), the highly anticipated third expansion for the world's most popular subscription-based massively multiplayer online role-playing game*, will be released starting on December 7, 2010. The expansion will be available on DVD-ROM for Windows(R) XP/Windows Vista(R)/Windows(R) 7 and Macintosh(R) at a suggested retail price of $39.99 and will also be offered as a digital download from the Blizzard Store. A special Collector's Edition packed with bonus items will be available exclusively in retail stores for a suggested retail price of $79.99.

"Cataclysm includes the best content we've ever created for World of Warcraft. It's not just an expansion, but a re-creation of much of the original Azeroth, complete with epic new high-level adventures for current players and a redesigned leveling experience for those just starting out," said Mike Morhaime, CEO and cofounder of Blizzard Entertainment. "With the help of our beta testers, we're putting on the final polish, and we look forward to welcoming gamers around the world to enjoy it in just a couple of months."

The first two World of Warcraft expansions, The Burning Crusade(R) and Wrath of the Lich King(R), each shattered PC game sales records upon their release.* In Cataclysm, the face of Azeroth will be forever altered by the return of the corrupted Dragon Aspect Deathwing. Players will explore once-familiar areas of the world that have now been reshaped by the devastation and filled with new adventures. In an effort to survive the planet-shattering cataclysm, two new playable races — worgen and goblins — will join the struggle between the Alliance and the Horde. As players journey to the new level cap of 85, they'll discover newly revealed locations, acquire new levels of power, and come face to face with Deathwing in a battle to determine the fate of the world.

The beta test for World of Warcraft: Cataclysm is currently underway. Visit the official Battle.net(R) website at http://www.battle.net to set up a Battle.net account and sign up for a chance to participate. To learn more about World of Warcraft: Cataclysm, visit http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/cataclysm.

Stormwind Update
This update was added in the latest beta build.
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Cataclysm Darkmoon Cards
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GCD Usage and not thinking with your fingers
We don't think so. It might be fun when you're looking at a target dummy, but then in an actual encounter with other players, you might find yourself sitting there looking at those two buttons without realizing that everyone else in the group is dead. Because you have such little time to look at anything besides those buttons, you aren't really playing as a group. You're just focused -- solely -- on maximizing your own rotation.

We had a lot of complaints in LK that the complexity of managing a class rotation was at odds with the complexity we also add to the boss encounters. If anything we want to buy more space for the boss encounters, because those are at least varied, rather than simplify those while complexifying your rotation, which just makes every encounter feel the same. At the very least, we want to slow the game down a little so that you have more opportunity to make decisions with your head instead of every wipe being a mistake of the fingers.

This is a subjective call, and we don't expect everyone to agree with it, but that's where we're coming from.

Healing
Mana Management and Overhealing
I think the risk of overhealing will exist. If you're not doing so now, it's probably because you're in green or blue gear with relatively low crit rates. If the rogue takes 2K damage from a splash attack, and you use Divine Light, you'll probably overheal. If you're in a raid and both healers attempt to heal her, you'll almost certainly overheal.

I agree that the risk of overhealing is key to mana management. There is more to healing than mana management though. The cast times and cooldowns of heals have a big role too. If you start casting a slow heal for a very wounded ally, then they might die. If you squander your cooldown then it's not going to be there for you when you really need it. Healers are also somewhat notorious for keeping everyone else up but forgetting to keep themselves alive. You just slip into the selfless role I suppose.

Tanking
Tanks with 100k HP 2-shot in Heroic
If your tanks are taking 50K in a boss hit, then one of the following is most likely true:

1) You are ignoring some mechanic of the fight (like debuffing or interrupting).
2) You're talking about an isolated scary moment in the fight when you and the tank need to consider cooldowns.
3) The encounter is bugged or overtuned. If you suspect this is the case, then provide specific feedback (the name of the boss at the very least) in the dungeons and raids forums (ideally the beta version).

If you are a reasonably competent healer who uses a variety of heals and isn't spamming Divine Light on every trash pull, then you should be able to keep everyone alive. If your group isn't just ignoring encounter mechanics and trying to burn the boss down, then you shouldn't be running out of mana either.

Vengeance
As I said in the other thread just now, you shouldn't be dependent on Vengeance to maintain threat in 5-player dungeons. Vengeance scales slowly and falls off quickly for that reason -- we don't want that to be the system that lets you stay ahead. It's intended to help with raid scaling, not be a crutch for poor dps.

As we have said several times, we don't want Prot paladins to fill every GCD. You also shouldn't need to in order to maintain threat.

If you are having difficulties in PTR or on Beta, please let us know, but be as specific as you can. Who were you losing threat to? What kind of dps were they doing? Was it an AE or single target scenario? How was their gear relative to yours? We're unlikely to just buff threat generation based on generic "I have threat problems" reports. Specificity is the key here. It could very well be a bug on the side of the tank or the dps that is causing the problem.

Remember that we very recently buffed the threat generation of Righteous Fury (and similar mechanics for the other tanks), so try and base your perceptions on very recent experiences. Things change pretty quickly at this stage.


Vengeance falling off
It shouldn't translate to bosses though, because you shouldn't be dependent on Vengeance to keep threat. If Vengeance falls off, you shouldn't immediately wipe. That's not the intent. We don't want Vengeance to be the ultimate threat ability. It will eventually stack up and generally stay that way. It shouldn't be a razor's edge for you being able to keep threat.

-- The rouge pulls as soon as the fight starts -- a tank problem perhaps, but not a Vengeance problem. (It could also be that the rogue is hitting the wrong target or not waiting for the tank.)
-- The healer's hots pull mob #5 in an AE situation -- a tank problem perhaps, but not a Vengeance problem. (It could also be that the tank is terrible at generating threat.)
-- Six minutes into a boss fight, the mage starts to creep up on your threat -- this is a Vengeance problem. (It could also be that the tank isn't doing a good job hitting their main attacks.)

The reason we keep downplaying Vengeance in 5-player dungeons, which is all anyone is running at the moment on beta, is because it's not a dungeon mechanic. If you need a comparison, think of something like Fortitude or Blessing of Kings. It's nice but not at all mandatory for even heroic 5-player runs. It's pretty close to mandatory for a raid.

Tank Threat
We don't want tank threat to be so high that the dps are absolved of all responsibility. If players are on the wrong targets, that is a L2P problem. If the mage opens with Arcane Blast before you even get a hit in, that is a L2P problem. If your group feels like they have to wait 6-10 seconds before they can start attacking, then that's either a tank problem or a problem on our end. Likewise, if your group feels constantly throttled several seconds or minutes into the fight, then either you aren't generating as much threat as you are capable of, or our numbers are preventing you from doing so.

Paladin
Divine Plea
Your calculations seem to assume that damage comes in at a steady rate and so you can just solve for when to use Divine Plea. But damage usually doesn't work like that. You should use Divine Plea at the right time, which doesn't always mean as soon as you start to get low.

Using all your GCDs
Yes, and we have said this a lot, so it shouldn't come as a surprise. In a nutshell, the problem with filling every single GCD is it gives you no room to do anything else. If you're called upon to do something special or even run away or even look around to see how the fight is going, you don't have the cognitive space to do so. If we give you a proc to use and your rotation is so locked then you can't use the proc, then we have a problem. If you literally can't stand to go 1.5 sec every now and then without hitting a button, then our game has serious problems.

I know this is really weird for paladins who just have the muscle memory of always hitting something -- anything -- every GCD. It will take some getting used. Just try to evaluate whether it's truly not fun or whether it's just really different. Having any class that hits a button every 1.5 seconds is something we're trying to move away from though. We don't think it's good for the game.

You should not be using Hammer of the Righteous or Inquisition on single target fights, because there are better alternatives. Holy Wrath is designed to be used in both single target or group fights. (And if you can't use Holy Wrath because of breaking CC concerns, then back the target away or just hold off on Holy Wrath for the time being -- same as a warrior using Thunder Clap). I would use Avenger's Shield on both single target or group fights, though it can be used in a lot of different ways, so if you need to silence a caster, then I would use some common sense there. I would use Consecrate for groups, particularly for spawning or moving groups. If you have the mana to use it single target, then go for it. Exorcism is probably too expensive to ever be a serious Protection ability.

Tanking abilities
This keeps coming up, so let me just spell it out.

Single target abilities: Crusader Strike, Shield of the Righteous, Judgement, Holy Wrath, Consecrate (maybe), Avenger's Shield.

AE abilities: Hammer of the Righteous, Inquisition, Judgement, Holy Wrath, Consecrate, Avenger's Shield.

That's ignoring things like Divine Protection, Word of Glory, Hammer of Justice, Hammer of Wrath, etc.

I wouldn't just hit all of those on cooldown though. Sometimes you want to position Consecrate, as you point out, or save Avenger's Shield to deal with adds. Sometimes you risk breaking CC. Sometimes you might want to blow a cooldown or use a Hand or something else.

Threat generation and GCD
I see two different arguments keep coming up.

The first is that you can't generate enough threat without more buttons to push. This isn't our design and it sounds like threat may still just be too tight in some circumstances. More GCDs does not have to be the answer to threat situations though. If Avenger's Shield hit for 60K then you'd have a healthy threat lead for a long time.

The second argument is that you just like having to hit something every single global. This isn't a "I can't function" complaint like the one above. It's a personal preference. We don't think there is anything sacred about the 1.5 sec GCD. I think current paladins have just grown accustomed to hitting a button every 1.5 sec. But we don't think the current paladin plays well. We don't like the 969 rotation. If you do, I understand, but it isn't coming back.

Let's get the threat situation ironed out and see how the Protadin plays for you then. At worst some of you may find the spec boring, but a lot of players find it boring on live, so we're not really out much there. If playing it is less EZ mode on the other hand, it might be more interesting to you or perhaps to other players who never paid the class much attention before.

Protection Paladin rotation complexity
(I strongly suggest that you read the whole Paladin Tanking Thread)
This was a problem though, because the Protection paladin was a fairly easy spec to play well while the other 3 tanks had a lot more they had to manage. It was frustrating for the warriors, druid and death knights to have to give it their all just to keep up with a novice paladin. (To be fair, the other option is just to make everyone more autopiloty.)

Now don't get me wrong. We often ask a lot of tanks in terms of moving the boss, knowing when the big hits are coming, and so on. We don't want the paladin rotation to be John Madden, and we don't everything to collapse if you fail to hit Crusader Strike at the right time. I'm getting the impression that threat is on the razor's edge for a lot of you, which is going to make everything feel too restrictive and frustrating. It could be a level 80 issue (since we have spent most of our time balancing at 85) or it could be that players are doing different things that we are doing internally or seeing on the beta. We watch a lot of dungeons, but we don't catch everything.

Warrior
Enrage uptime
We think it's dumb for Enrage to be up 100% of the time. What's the point? It should just be tacked on to Defensive Stance at that point. We aren't going to balance warrior dps around it being up 100% in Cataclysm if in fact it is not up 100% of the time.

Virtually every number related to Prot warriors changed, so it's difficult to just compare a -5% here and a +5% there to figure out if your dps went up or down. The most helpful thing you can do is report on differences you notice before or after a PTR copy / beta conversion or even how you stack up relative to other tanks or other dps.

Warrior DPS is lacking
Unfortunately, "most agree that prot warrior dps is lacking" is not an actionable item. I need something more concrete than that to take to my team. Is your dps lower than it is on live? How much lower? In what circumstances? Is it lower than other tanks? How much lower? In what circumstances?

To be clear, there is nothing wrong with being vague. Maybe your post will spur someone else to chime in with more details in agreement or disagreement. Just don't make the leap from "My dps feels low" to "Why haven't they buffed me yet?"

In the specific case of AEs such as Thunder Clap, we don't want them to be so powerful that they can hold threat all on their own. We don't want the AE tanking rotation to be just TC and Shockwave. If you are killing things one at a time, then you should make additional attacks to the next target to be killed and Thunder Clap should be sufficient to prevent healer aggro or the like.

Article Source
 
Ah they didnt have the release date this morning on mmo champion, thanks for the post.

Well i went around discovering the dungeons with my premade war. Gonna try and tank some of em tonight. I did some quests in vashir and its an interesting zone so far. get the sea legs ability to swim faster. and my buddy said you get a sea horse to ride at 450% speed. :D
 
v12dock said:
So who is up for some serious world PVP, I think this expansion is going to restore pvp back to its true form.
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Damn straight! I just wish they would remove Flyers...hehehe. That would bring back some real world pvp.

:rockout:
 
I don't know I think flyers will take it to the next level, you gank someones guild member then the whole guild is out there in 5mins along with yours......
 
Yeah. I think when Cata comes out I will be more into PvP this time around. LK just didn't do it for me... :/ Can't wait though to own some noobs in the new battlegrounds! :D
 
BondExtreme said:
Yeah. I think when Cata comes out I will be more into PvP this time around. LK just didn't do it for me... :/ Can't wait though to own some noobs in the new battlegrounds! :D
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WotLK is what drives me away from PVP :shadedshu
Arenas were never a good idea, but...
Death & Decay perma fear = FAIL.
WotLK = worst product Blizzard ever relased, no contest. :slap:
 
Zubasa said:
WotLK is what drives me away from PVP :shadedshu
Arenas were never a good idea, but...
Death & Decay perma fear = FAIL.
WotLK = worst product Blizzard ever relased, no contest. :slap:
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I agree with all that entirely. Well as for arenas go, they just needed more arena maps. :ohwell:

But yeah. A lot of people do agree that LK was the worst expansion for the game.
 
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