Oracle Advocates Keeping Linux Open and Free, Calls Out IBM

[Wirko]

It is ironic but keep in mind no one is "leeching" off anyone here. The whole thing is GPL and designed to be shared. If anything IBM and Oracle are both "leeching" off core linux dev work.

I didn't check specifically about IBM and ORCL but large IT corporations are also the largest contributors to the Linux kernel. Even Microsoft is among them.

 

[Frick]

This may be a pot calling the kettle black scenario, but it appears oracle actually has a legit point here for once.

It must be such a high for them. Pure adrenaline.

 

[ypsylon]

Even broken clock is right twice a day.

I give one kudos to Oracle right now, wonder when they will be on the right side a 2nd time...

 

[zlobby]

The irony!

 

[bug]

Also note how, while this is squarely aimed at RHEL, Oracle's statement constantly talks about keeping Linux free.

 

[mouacyk]

These reactions make me proud to be on TPU. The diversity of user knowledge is amazing.

 

[regs]

There are only 2 reasons to close sources:
1. Exploit monopoly position;
2. Hide serious vulnerabilities or bookmarks.

 

[zlobby]

These reactions make me proud to be on TPU. The diversity of user knowledge is amazing.

It's not that bad but I'd hate to rain on your parade.

 

[Assimilator]

This is rich coming from the same company that has repeatedly changed the Java license so that it can squeeze incrementally more money from commercial users. F**k both IBM and Oracle, both are run by accountants and MBAs who have no idea how software engineering works and exist solely to make profit.

 

[Imouto]

Linux is not completely open source. The only way Linux will truly compete against Microsoft is if a Distro becomes a hybrid

This is hilariously wrong on both sentences. The first one can be easily debunked with a simple Google search. The second one could be applied to the desktop alone if it wasn't wrong too. Even Microsoft uses Linux for their cloud because Windows is crap you can only feed to end lusers shackled by their corpo overlords or shitty anticheat.

 

[zlobby]

This is hilariously wrong on both sentences. The first one can be easily debunked with a simple Google search. The second one could be applied to the desktop alone if it wasn't wrong too. Even Microsoft uses Linux for their cloud because Windows is crap you can only feed to end lusers shackled by their corpo overlords or shitty anticheat.

We have bigger problems now as M$ are EEE-ing Linux. The embracing has already begun with their WSL. It reads as 'weasel' for a reason...

 

[johnspack]

Wow Oracle... I like Virtualbox but your linux.... just installed it in a vm, installed the virtualbox additions and it immediately broke the install. Nice job!

 

[AnotherReader]

We have bigger problems now as M$ are EEE-ing Linux. The embracing has already begun with their WSL. It reads as 'weasel' for a reason...

Pray tell how they can embrace, extend and extinguish an open source ecosystem?

 

[lexluthermiester]

Linux is not completely open source.

Um, I don't know where you get your info, but this is not at all correct. Nowhere close. The whole point of Linux was to be open source and free to the world. I think you might need to read up on the history and purpose of Linux.

The only way Linux will truly compete against Microsoft is if a Distro becomes a hybrid

To be fair, Android is exactly what you describe and is the most used OS on the planet.

(And for everyone who is feeling the need to chime in with claims that Android is not a Linux distro, shut it. Linus Torvalds, the creator of Linux himself, has already called Android a Linux distro because *TADA*, it uses the Linux Kernel as a base. Even Google has confirmed this openly.)

Install some closed source drivers, "completely open source" becomes debatable.

Hardware drivers do not make an OS. Even if closed source software is installed on Linux, the OS itself is still open and free.

 

[zlobby]

Pray tell how they can embrace, extend and extinguish an open source ecosystem?

Watch and learn.

 

[Wirko]

Pray tell how they can embrace, extend and extinguish an open source ecosystem?

Not only is it open source, it's strongly and continually supported by Intel, QC, Arm, AMD, IBM, Oracle, and many other industry heavyveights.

 

[Aleksandar_038]

Um, I don't know where you get your info, but this is not at all correct. Nowhere close. The whole point of Linux was to be open source and free to the world. I think you might need to read up on the history and purpose of Linux.


To be fair, Android is exactly what you describe and is the most used OS on the planet.

(And for everyone who is feeling the need to chime in with claims that Android is not a Linux distro, shut it. Linus Torvalds, the creator of Linux himself, has already called Android a Linux distro because *TADA*, it uses the Linux Kernel as a base. Even Google has confirmed this openly.)


Hardware drivers do not make an OS. Even if closed source software is installed on Linux, the OS itself is still open and free.

And yet, pull the Play services and Google integration and no-one wants to use it anymore.

For Linux to thrive as a personal OS, it needs direction and ease of use that no Linux distro offers - at least not for the average Joe who barely knows how to increase volume on PC, let alone something else. SteamOS and Proton are steps in the right direction...

EDIT: there is also matter of "common denominator" that all players on the market take into account - and it is set very low... "Average" user of computer today is nothing like "average" user 10 or 20 years ago... This is digital age, but 95% of people barely know how to opet hotspot on the phone, let alone much more than that. If they can take photos and share them on social networks, it is pinnacle of their usage. In the office, they fill in Excel table, usually with the help of one colleague that knows more, and that is it.

Microsoft embraced that whole-heartedly and keeps dumbing down Windows step-by-step. Now, if one Linux distro that is perfect for personal use even appears, I am pretty sure it will be nothing like I would like it to be...

 

[bug]

Hardware drivers do not make an OS. Even if closed source software is installed on Linux, the OS itself is still open and free.

I know that, you know that... yet some will still argue.

 

[lexluthermiester]

And yet, pull the Play services and Google integration and no-one wants to use it anymore.

Not true. Android is still very usefully without Google Play services. I've tested this personally.

and ease of use that no Linux distro offers

Not true. Linux Mint is a perfect example of how easy to use Linux has become. And that one is just my personal fav. There are several others.

Microsoft embraced that whole-heartedly and keeps dumbing down Windows step-by-step.

Which is completely and totally bereft of all common sense and intelligence.

EDIT: there is also matter of "common denominator" that all players on the market take into account - and it is set very low... "Average" user of computer today is nothing like "average" user 10 or 20 years ago... This is digital age, but 95% of people barely know how to opet hotspot on the phone, let alone much more than that. If they can take photos and share them on social networks, it is pinnacle of their usage. In the office, they fill in Excel table, usually with the help of one colleague that knows more, and that is it.

Instead of "dumbing it down" microsoft needs to encourage learning and not interfere with teaching a public that isn't so tech-literate to become more tech-literate & savvy. Education is needed instead of pandering to tech-morons, people who are too lazy to learn or people who find it all intimidating. We need a smarter society who understands their technology. We do NOT need technology reduced to something that would appeal to people with a 50IQ.


In a round-about way, this is what Oracle is saying.

 

[Aleksandar_038]

Not true. Android is still very usefully without Google Play services. I've tested this personally.
Maybe for you. For me too, unlocked Android, freed from the Google services, is a very powerful tool... Not to mention that my battery life is FANTASTIC. But 99,5% users do not want that - they want simple access to social networks, good photos and a few utility apps to work without a hitch.

Hell, can you imagine that we come to a situation where "one place to download all apps" is preferred and lauded by the majority of tech portals? WTF?

Android can use apps from anywhere, yet for "safety" reasons, the majority of people do not even know that the world outside Play store exists. What is that, if not completely dumbing down everything for sake of "average Joe"?

Not true. Linux Mint is a perfect example of how easy to use Linux has become. And that one is just my personal fav. There are several others.

Yes, it sounds simple. But install it on ten PCs / laptops, then count how many times you need to tinker with Bluetooth / Audio / WiFi... Then explain to the average Joe how to run his favorite games... And to make something actually useful in Libre Office... And things get complicated fast, for the average user.

Like I said before, maybe SteamOS is exactly what we need, and step in right direction, but I do not know can Valve pull it alone or find ally in this toxic market...

Which is completely and totally bereft of all common sense and intelligence.


Instead of "dumbing it down" microsoft needs to encourage learning and not interfere with teaching a public that isn't so tech-literate to become more tech-literate & savvy. Education is needed instead of pandering to tech-morons, people who are too lazy to learn or people who find it all intimidating. We need a smarter society who understands their technology. We do NOT need technology reduced to something that would appeal to people with a 50IQ.


In a round-about way, this is what Oracle is saying.

I agree completely.

But in practice, we see that big tech - Apple, Google and Microsoft works very hard to dumb down everything in order to be as accessible as possible. They are not in the business of education and do not care about how much "Average Joe" knows. Plus, it is an easier road for them too...

Actually, there are very, very few examples of big tech companies encouraging consumers to become more tech-literate.

Hell, whole society is being "dumbed down" from the day one of primary school, so why tech world would be different?

 

[Imouto]

For Linux to thrive as a personal OS, it needs direction and ease of use that no Linux distro offers - at least not for the average Joe who barely knows how to increase volume on PC, let alone something else. SteamOS and Proton are steps in the right direction...

Excuse me but WTF. Linux is ten thousand times easier to use than Windows. The installation is far easier to begin with. Most of the software is updated with a single button. Shit doesn't break constantly like it does in Windows, in fact it's hard to break it. It's almost impervious to virus attacks and it's updated more often.

Yes, it sounds simple. But install it on ten PCs / laptops, then count how many times you need to tinker with Bluetooth / Audio / WiFi... Then explain to the average Joe how to run his favorite games... And to make something actually useful in Libre Office... And things get complicated fast, for the average user.

Dude, seriously. Linux has zero issues with hardware.

 

[trsttte]

Android can use apps from anywhere, yet for "safety" reasons, the majority of people do not even know that the world outside Play store exists. What is that, if not completely dumbing down everything for sake of "average Joe"?

Sure but not everyone needs to be a tech expert, the fact that we know that's possible and actively use it is proof the system is not that dumbed down. For all it's faults Android still has a lot of options clearly available, Windows is going the opposite way where you don't even have the option - no, register hacks are not options, they are simply hacks and though they work they're not proper replacements for simple user facing options

Like I said before, maybe SteamOS is exactly what we need, and step in right direction, but I do not know can Valve pull it alone or find ally in this toxic market...

SteamOS is great but once it leaves the controlled and fixed configuration of the steam deck will have all the same problems of every other linux distro - probably worse because it's arch

 

[Aleksandar_038]

Excuse me but WTF. Linux is ten thousand times easier to use than Windows. The installation is far easier to begin with. Most of the software is updated with a single button. Shit doesn't break constantly like it does in Windows, in fact it's hard to break it. It's almost impervious to virus attacks and it's updated more often.

You ARE NOT an average user, whatsoever.

Installation is easy, but not as easy as Windows. Still sometimes runs into trouble with WiFi / Bluetooth / some random stupidity - I understand perfectly that most of the time it is not Linux fault, but average user does not know that.

Most of the software updated with the single button - depending heavily on what you use. In Windows most of the software is also updated in background, yet everybody keeps bitching about it. People often get confused where to find software for Linux, after they have been spoiled with Windows and Android. Completely unaware about magnitude of choices available on Linux. On the other side, that magnitude of choices is sometimes a problem, because lot of software is simply junk and you need to know what to pick. It is battle of David VS Goliath - everybody can find good photo editor for Windows in five minutes... For Linux, it is still different. It is not Linux fault completely, but it is still a problem because people are LAZY.

Shit does not constantly break in Windows, nor in Linux either. Big updates cause trouble in both cases. SO, I do not know what the problem is.

Of course, Linux is much safer against virus attacks when it covers 3% of desktop PC users. But actually, there were very few problems with Windows and virus attacks for years. The Era of Windows XP is long gone, so I could just repeat your picture there.

I use both Linux and Windows. And for me and my habits, Linux is better. But it requires some technical basics, which most people do not have. I think that those basics should be part of elementary education, but it is another subject altogether.

Sure but not everyone needs to be a tech expert, the fact that we know that's possible and actively use it is proof the system is not that dumbed down. For all it's faults Android still has a lot of options clearly available, Windows is going the opposite way where you don't even have the option - no, register hacks are not options, they are simply hacks and though they work they're not proper replacements for simple user facing options

Yes... Can you imagine that Windows actually had proper theming engine? Or "libraries" feature that would make it so easy to access several different sources of data... Idiots.

SteamOS is great but once it leaves the controlled and fixed configuration of the steam deck will have all the same problems of every other linux distro - probably worse because it's arch

Damn...

 

[Imouto]

I use both Linux and Windows.

No, you don't use Linux or you wouldn't be saying half of the nonsense you are saying. It's like you just woke up from being frozen 20+ years. "Trouble with WiFi / BT / random stupidity" is almost non-existent. If you had installed Linux on a machine in the last 10+ years you'd know that. It's so easy I got complete computer illiterates to install it over the phone.

 

[bug]

Maybe for you. For me too, unlocked Android, freed from the Google services, is a very powerful tool... Not to mention that my battery life is FANTASTIC. But 99,5% users do not want that - they want simple access to social networks, good photos and a few utility apps to work without a hitch.

About a billion users in China would like to have a word with you

No, you don't use Linux or you wouldn't be saying half of the nonsense you are saying. It's like you just woke up from being frozen 20+ years. "Trouble with WiFi / BT / random stupidity" is almost non-existent. If you had installed Linux on a machine in the last 10+ years you'd know that. It's so easy I got complete computer illiterates to install it over the phone.

14 years ago I got an Internet stick that would work spottily in Windows. Booted Linux, configured it once, worked fine after that. On the other hand, Arch has my printer, which works fine under Windows, listed under the "paperweight" category. Imho, this isn't even about the OS anymore, it's about which manufacturer bothers to write a driver that is not crap. Sometimes Windows gets drivers first, but if you look at the number of devices supported overall, I think Linux is ahead.