Plasma replacement - to LED or not to LED

[lexluthermiester]

He's coming from a plasma screen.

Exactly! ANYTHING, including TN, would be a serious contrast improvement by comparison. So a quality IPS panel would be an amazing upgrade! Like night & day difference..

 

[Chomiq]

Exactly! ANYTHING, including TN, would be a serious contrast improvement by comparison. So a quality IPS panel would be an amazing upgrade! Like night & day difference..

Wait, what? Plasmas had amazing contrast.

 

[eidairaman1]

Before LCDs could go Large Scale for Residential use there was DLP and Plasma.

Plasma was like a Hybrid of CRT and LCD.

It really wasn't until lcds branched out in designs (VA, TN, IPS, LED/OLED/AOLED) that Plasma was finally discontinued.

Plasma Advantages:
(Like CRT)
Smooth Motion
Refresh Rate (Very High)
High Color Fidelity/Contrast
(Like LCD)
Lighter than a CRT/Rear Projection/DLP
Thinner than a CRT
Less power used than a CRT.

Disadvantages:
Heavier than a LCD
Ran Warmer
Used more power than a LCD.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Wait, what? Plasmas had amazing contrast.

Not mine. It's best features were brightness, smoothness and refresh rate. Black-level and contrast were very much less than optimal.

 

[Ferather]

I agree, love all the info, though.

He's coming from a plasma screen.

 

[londiste]

Exactly! ANYTHING, including TN, would be a serious contrast improvement by comparison. So a quality IPS panel would be an amazing upgrade! Like night & day difference..

That cannot be correct.
Plasma has/had effectively infinite contrast ratio, similar to OLED and other emissive screens.
Brightness was also quite high even by today's HDR standards on better plasma panels. I seem to remember 1000+nits at high end.

Plasma definitely had problems, flickering, near-black colors, eventual dimming, power especially with 100% white screen etc, but contrast and brightness were definitely not its weaknesses.

What model did you have?

 

[Valantar]

Trying to cut through the back-and-forth a bit here: IMO this really comes down to the OP's priorities and specific use case. The choice between OLED and LCD can be made almost entirely based on the level of ambient light in the room where the TV is used. Why? For relatively high end panels (at least LG C and G series and Samsung Q80/90 back before we bought our Q80), reviewers essentially tie them - dependent on ambient light. OLED is clearly superior in a dark room, with its lower black levels and lack of glow (though near-black colors can still be a bit iffy at times). Good FALD LCD screens are clearly superior in any moderately well lit room, as OLED lacks the brightness to overcome strong ambient light (yes, the current generation of panels get brighter, but it's still a major difference, and burn-in risk is higher at higher brightnesses). We went Samsung QLED for that reason, and it's been fantastic - easily bright enough to use even when the sun is shining in through the living room windows, but still plenty good enough when it's dark. (A dark scene in a bright room will always be problematic, though a less reflective coating helps with this.) The room is never pitch black though. It's also worth noting that (at least LG, though I believe all given that they're all LG panels) OLEDs have far more reflective screens than higher end LCDs. This difference is quite easily seen in store demos - just look at how blurry/clear your reflection is in any dark content. At least comparing the LG CX to the Samsung Q80, this was a major difference - and would be the difference between seeing your reflection clearly outlined in a dark scene vs. seeing a vague shape instead.

So: if the room is typically dark, or can be made dark at will without hassle, OLED is likely the way to go. I wouldn't worry about burn-in for TV use (PC use with desktop icons, a taskbar, game UI elements etc. is another thing entirely), and mitigation methods such as logo dimming ought to be reasonably effective. If the room is often even moderately bright, especially if the wall behind you is light colored, a good FALD LED TV is the way to go.

As for response times and motion: yes, OLED has better motion handling and response times, but modern 120Hz TV panels have response times low enough that this almost doesn't matter. And the sharp motion of OLED can even be perceived as jarring and stuttery with 24fps movies and the like (very subjective, but definitely possible)

 

[lexluthermiester]

What model did you have?

Samsung PN42C450B1D.

Sorry about the focus, cramped angle..

 

[Bill_Bright]

While true, who defines "deep blacks"? That is the subjective context.

No it's not. Black (the absence of all color, including white) can be measured with scientific test and measuring equipment. That is, how "black" something is can be specifically defined - it is a fact, not a matter of opinion.

You can define contrast ratio to any number you wish, but in the end it's up to the person making the purchase to decide if the screen looks good to them.

This is absolutely true. And it goes back to my comments in Post #5 above - where some folks have gone through the trouble of having their new TVs properly calibrated for accuracy, only to then go and change all the settings to what "looks good to them".

 

[phanbuey]

Trying to cut through the back-and-forth a bit here: IMO this really comes down to the OP's priorities and specific use case. The choice between OLED and LCD can be made almost entirely based on the level of ambient light in the room where the TV is used. Why? For relatively high end panels (at least LG C and G series and Samsung Q80/90 back before we bought our Q80), reviewers essentially tie them - dependent on ambient light. OLED is clearly superior in a dark room, with its lower black levels and lack of glow (though near-black colors can still be a bit iffy at times). Good FALD LCD screens are clearly superior in any moderately well lit room, as OLED lacks the brightness to overcome strong ambient light (yes, the current generation of panels get brighter, but it's still a major difference, and burn-in risk is higher at higher brightnesses). We went Samsung QLED for that reason, and it's been fantastic - easily bright enough to use even when the sun is shining in through the living room windows, but still plenty good enough when it's dark. (A dark scene in a bright room will always be problematic, though a less reflective coating helps with this.) The room is never pitch black though. It's also worth noting that (at least LG, though I believe all given that they're all LG panels) OLEDs have far more reflective screens than higher end LCDs. This difference is quite easily seen in store demos - just look at how blurry/clear your reflection is in any dark content. At least comparing the LG CX to the Samsung Q80, this was a major difference - and would be the difference between seeing your reflection clearly outlined in a dark scene vs. seeing a vague shape instead.

So: if the room is typically dark, or can be made dark at will without hassle, OLED is likely the way to go. I wouldn't worry about burn-in for TV use (PC use with desktop icons, a taskbar, game UI elements etc. is another thing entirely), and mitigation methods such as logo dimming ought to be reasonably effective. If the room is often even moderately bright, especially if the wall behind you is light colored, a good FALD LED TV is the way to go.

As for response times and motion: yes, OLED has better motion handling and response times, but modern 120Hz TV panels have response times low enough that this almost doesn't matter. And the sharp motion of OLED can even be perceived as jarring and stuttery with 24fps movies and the like (very subjective, but definitely possible)

Brightness is an issue but not the way people think... The oled gets bright -- super bright, much brighter than most gaming monitors but only at about 1/4 - 1/2 of the screen holds that brightness.

This is the biggest drawback to using it as a work monitor is the ABL / DIMMING features, as these are by far the most annoying:
-- i.e. OLEDS can't display a full white screen at full brightness - they dim, so for flashing or like bright games that use white screen effects (when you exit a tunnel into the outside, for example) this is noticeable.
-- if you maximize a WHITE / mostly white browser window full screen (like TPU) this will happen,
-- if you keep the white window up with static content for any amount of time, it will also sense that there is no motion and dim - You can disable this feature but at stock this is what will happen.

Picture quality, especially in moving scenes and games and motion response and input latency are just nuts on it. Better than any IPS i've had. It's fast enough for me to comfortably play competitive shooters at 48", with insane visuals. It also helps that the target is usually the size of a coaster.

If you're mostly doing work / excel and you like white/light themes on the desktop and only game a seldomly then I would get something else. For gaming there isn't really a much better display, esp if you like HDR.

I also own a Samsung G7 and an Alienware 34DW (ips) and i can say that the OLED is by far the display with the least compromises of them when it comes to visual quality and gaming, and the most when it comes to work.

(2) SECRET LG Oled Menu For BX, CX, GX, WX, And ZX 2020 Models! - YouTube <- definitely do this when you get it, it makes the colors look insane.

 

[cvaldes]

And it goes back to my comments in Post #5 above - where some folks have gone through the trouble of having their new TVs properly calibrated for accuracy, only to then go and change all the settings to what "looks good to them".

Ultimately that's what counts. It's like following a recipe or modifying it because the end result pleases the people at the dinner table.

Maybe tossing in five extra garlic cloves creates something out of balance but if you like it, do it.

No one here cares if Participant A's home TV is not accurately calibrated. It's important for broadcast engineers and some creative professionals.

If Joe Consumer likes a noticeably blue image for their movies, that's fine. No one stares for hours and hours at SMTPE test patterns. If the TV performs in a way that the purchaser is satisfied, then the manufacturer did their job.

 

[Valantar]

Brightness is an issue but not the way people think... The oled gets bright -- super bright, much brighter than most gaming monitors but only at about 1/4 - 1/2 of the screen holds that brightness.

This is the biggest drawback to using it as a work monitor is the ABL / DIMMING features, as these are by far the most annoying:
-- i.e. OLEDS can't display a full white screen at full brightness - they dim, so for flashing or like bright games that use white screen effects (when you exit a tunnel into the outside, for example) this is noticeable.
-- if you maximize a WHITE / mostly white browser window full screen (like TPU) this will happen,
-- if you keep the white window up with static content for any amount of time, it will also sense that there is no motion and dim - You can disable this feature but at stock this is what will happen.

Picture quality, especially in moving scenes and games and motion response and input latency are just nuts on it. Better than any IPS i've had. It's fast enough for me to comfortably play competitive shooters at 48", with insane visuals. It also helps that the target is usually the size of a coaster.

If you're mostly doing work / excel and you like white/light themes on the desktop and only game a seldomly then I would get something else. For gaming there isn't really a much better display, esp if you like HDR.

View attachment 217149

I also own a Samsung G7 and an Alienware 34DW (ips) and i can say that the OLED is by far the display with the least compromises of them when it comes to visual quality and gaming, and the most when it comes to work.

(2) SECRET LG Oled Menu For BX, CX, GX, WX, And ZX 2020 Models! - YouTube <- definitely do this when you get it, it makes the colors look insane.

There's nothing wrong with what you're saying here, but your frame of reference seems to be monitors and not TVs. Good LED LCD TVs get much brighter than OLEDs both for smaller areas and full white screens. Check Rtings' comparison. Monitors generally have crap brightness - 300 nits is still "good" for most monitors. The only brightness metric the OLED is ahead in is HDR 2% image, i.e. a very tiny spot. Anything else and the LCD is much brighter. Hence its better bright room performance. From looking at that review LG has significantly improved their anti-reflective coating from the CX generation though, which is great. But as I said: if the room is often dark and light levels are controllable, go OLED; if not, go (high-ish end, FALD) LED. Both are fantastic, and while the OLED does win in most metrics, unless 120Hz gaming is all you do, the differences are not really perceptible outside of a side-by-side comparison.

 

[phanbuey]

Yeah I didn't read the OP as well as I should have -- totally thought we were talking about monitors.

 

[ShiBDiB]

To go against all the advice here.. considering most of what you watch isn't even available in 4K.. Why are you upgrading? It sounds like the TV you have now works fine for your usage scenario.

 

[R-T-B]

Not mine. It's best features were brightness, smoothness and refresh rate. Black-level and contrast were very much less than optimal.

What on earth? Did you set the black level wrong?

Samsung PN42C450B1D.View attachment 217121
Sorry about the focus, cramped angle..

Oh. Samsungs. They had some kind of bug with floating black levels on some models... maybe yours was one.

 

[londiste]

But as I said: if the room is often dark and light levels are controllable, go OLED; if not, go (high-ish end, FALD) LED. Both are fantastic, and while the OLED does win in most metrics, unless 120Hz gaming is all you do, the differences are not really perceptible outside of a side-by-side comparison.

I would put that cutoff point to somewhere brighter. Unless you have direct sunlight in the room, either one is fine.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Oh. Samsungs. They had some kind of bug with floating black levels on some models... maybe yours was one.

Maybe. Again, black levels are not as important to me. And remember, plasma screens wear out over time. Mine was 12ish years old.

 

[Valantar]

I would put that cutoff point to somewhere brighter. Unless you have direct sunlight in the room, either one is fine.

Most living rooms in my experience have either large windows or windows facing the brightest/sunniest direction available. That likely varies a lot both geographically and culturally, but IME they are typically the room in any house or apartment with the most natural light. We have a glassed-in balcony outside of our living room windows, but even when the sunlight is angled so that the only direct lighting is on the balcony, the living room still gets very bright - bright enough that SDR content needs most of the brightness the Q80 can deliver. That combined with light colored walls means it needs to be pretty dark outside to avoid visible reflections in dark scenes too. Of course if you have blackout blinds or some other convenient way of controlling light that makes this easier, but then I accounted for that in my recommendation.

 

[Bill_Bright]

As far as calibrating by eye - I always go by what looks like the most natural flesh tones. They may not end up being accurate, but they are not green or blue when I am done.

 

[Chomiq]

Just an FYI
Beware of panel shenanigans from Samsung. QN90A has two variants - US one with VA panel and EU one which uses IPS panel. They are both listed as QN90A but contrast is dramatically different between the two. It's the QN91AA in EU market that uses VA panel.

 

[RJARRRPCGP]

The LG 49UH6100 has been out-of-service for many weeks now! When it was new, its "4K mode" was mainly only good for piercing retinas! Even the default LED backlight level on other modes, are highly likely to pierce retinas! But at least, it let you turn down the backlight. But, when my sister and my brother-in-law were using it, the backlight was most likely cranked back up!

 

[mama]

I am on one year of the CX as a desktop monitor (read static stuff all the time) and no burn in yet.

If it doesn't burn in soon i wont be able to use my BB warranty.

Same.

 

[lexluthermiester]

@andersun9
Saw this and thought you might want to give it a watch.

 

[Shrek]

Isn't power consumption also an issue for Plasma screens? the cost of electricity adds up.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Isn't power consumption also an issue for Plasma screens? the cost of electricity adds up.

It is. Plasmas are very power hungry.