Processor choice for well equipped quad channel memory system... generational improvements worth it?

[eidairaman1]

lol earthdog… forgive me for wanting a low latency system
forgive me for wanting another system that has huge memory throughput

Yes, forgive me to for wanting a system with an advanced memory subsystem.

In case you didn't get the memo, we are posting in a pc - performance related forum.

If you have the bank grab a 3rd Gen TR bro,

 

[storm-chaser]

...and you should read my next/latest post before saying such things..

Your 'essence' is unclear here (to at least me - we see different answers and suggestions because we arent clear on the essence). You mention rendering and want quad channel out of the gate so we went core heavy and explained quad didnt matter much (in case you were not aware) and other options.

So, unfettered performance.... in a quad channel world....and has to be good at rendering? Does it matter amd or intel?

Right, so what's the takeaway here? You shouldn't be sitting there being critical of something you clearly know nothing about. So you shouldn't be going around making snap judgements about a system you don't fully understand both in form and purpose. This type of behavior could be considered both foolish and amateurish.

Im leaving AMD on the table for this based on positive input feedback from earlier in the thread.

 

[EarthDog]

but quad channel is slower than Ryzen dual channel. That's why Intel had to cut their HEDT prices in HALF.

He doesn't seem to want unfettered.... in that manner. Just the I want quad bandwidth (which is ok!)!

Right, so what's the takeaway here? You shouldn't be sitting there being critical of something you clearly know nothing about. So you shouldn't be going around making snap judgements about a system you don't fully understand both in form and purpose. This type of behavior could be considered both foolish and amateurish.

Im leaving AMD on the table for this based on positive input feedback from earlier in the thread.

Surely my post can be tempered...as well as more clarity out of the gate on your part. If users have an idea what you really want, we can focus efforts to help where you want it instead of feeling it out through multiple posts in the thread... horses for courses, as you say.

So if amd is on the table... you are locked in to threadripper based systems if you want quad channel memory. I'm not sure, but I'd check how amd memory stats look against intel before moving that direction if that is what you are after.

 

[thesmokingman]

Yea, so it seems. It doesn't make sense to me since I look at it as a whole and not just one aspect.

 

[storm-chaser]

Yea, so it seems. It doesn't make sense to me since I look at it as a whole and not just one aspect.

Are you familiar with the term "overclocking"?

He doesn't seem to want unfettered.... in that manner. Just the I want quad bandwidth (which is ok!)!


Surely my post can be tempered...as well as more clarity out of the gate on your part. If users have an idea what you really want, we can focus efforts to help where you want it instead of feeling it out through multiple posts in the thread... horses for courses, as you say.

So if amd is on the table... you are locked in to threadripper based systems if you want quad channel memory. I'm not sure, but I'd check how amd memory stats look against intel before moving that direction if that is what you are after.

There you go again making snap judgements and putting words in my mouth. What makes you think I don't want unfettered performance?

 

[thesmokingman]

Are you familiar with the term "overclocking"?


There you go again making snap judgements and putting words in my mouth. What makes you think I don't want unfettered performance?

Look if you wanna do something stupid, just do it. Don't ask ppl on a public forum cuz they won't get it and will point out the flaws.

 

[EarthDog]

There you go again making snap judgements and putting words in my mouth. What makes you think I don't want unfettered performance?

Perhaps I am still confused...

Just previously you said this:

Right, this build is all about maximizing memory throughput, so we will be addressing those "bottlenecks" that you speak of, to the best of our ability. Matter of fact, that's a crucial goal of the new build. Unfettered performance, that's what were after!

And I want to emphasis one more point. We are measuring system performance relative to it's CLASS, and not necessarily to hold to the benchmark standard of the most recent tech. So if we do go with a DDR3 kit and CPU, we will be evaluating the system based on how it performs relative to other tech from that time period.

Maximizing memory throughput and unfettered performance are two different things to me. Unfettered, by definition means to release from restraint or inhibition... your restraint for the given goal (which includes rendering performance - at least it did in the first post) is the CPU. So, it seems that you are prioritizing a quad channel system over unfettered performance (which is OK!!!) since the most unfettered performance you can get for the money you are willing to spend (going by the first post) is with a dual channel AMD Ryzen 3000 CPU (I don't think you can find a TR for $250... but not sure - if so, you may be able to get your cake and eat it too!).

I'm not judging anything. At worst I am not understanding the goals and missing on the suggestions... but hey, I'm a foolish amateur... what do I know?

 

[silentbogo]

First of all the build is just for fun

If it's just for fun, I'd go with cheapest adequate setup.
Anything LGA1366 won't do for video editing(my old OCed x5650@4.2GHz wasn't even able to software-decode 4K@24Hz without dropping tons frames).
I'm building something similar for my office, but the only reason why it's not ryzen, is because I have a shitton of spare parts(4GB DDR4 sticks, excellent X99 board, beefy PSU, semi-functional 240mm AIO etc), so I can spare $150 on an old CPU to save on other parts. But, if you need to buy all of it, I'd drop the idea in favor of mainstream Ryzen rig (faster and cheaper). Even those crippled chinese kits with weird 2011v3 boards can't compete with Zen in terms of perf/$ (especially with those ridiculous prices on 1000&2000 series).

 

[storm-chaser]

HEDT - Im basically building a (High-End Desktop) an Intel term for high-performance desktop computers

And this is exactly what I am aiming for in terms of expectations.

Look if you wanna do something stupid, just do it. Don't ask ppl on a public forum cuz they won't get it and will point out the flaws.

To be honest, I don't care what you think of my build. I am merely here to lay the basic ground work, brainstorm and get advice for my next build. When I am confident in my technical hardware choices, I will pull the trigger.

Advice is a wonderful thing, and I want to collect as much of that as possible before I proceed with the actual build. The hater's are gonna hate, and most of their comments go right into the rubbish bin.

 

[EarthDog]

Here is some quad channel pr0n for you...

Note, the latency is higher than dual channel... but that aside, look at the bandwidth! IIRC, AIDA64 memory tests scales (to a point?) with the processor core/thread count. If you had a 10c/20t CPU for example, I don't think these values can be reached.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Here is some quad channel pr0n for you...

Note, the latency is higher than dual channel... but that aside, look at the bandwidth! IIRC, AIDA64 memory tests scales (to a point?) with the processor core/thread count. If you had a 10c/20t CPU for example, I don't think these values can be reached.

View attachment 147243

Damn!!!!!! mic drop on all dem Ryzen fanbois

 

[mouacyk]

There are very few benchmarks that demonstrate the advantages of quad-channel and no applications that gain from it. I've been trying to find one for years to tune my E5 1680-v2 towards. That's not to say it's working great as a Linux compile server, but it wouldn't out compile a Ryzen of equal hardware.

This all seems like a vendetta to point out Ryzen's inherent lack of quad-channel support, for what appears to be a great multi-core CPU and arch in general. It is glued together by IF, but its core count and game cache are unmatched by Intel right now.

 

[Zyll Goliat]

HEDT - Im basically building a (High-End Desktop) an Intel term for high-performance desktop computers

And this is exactly what I am aiming for in terms of expectations.


To be honest, I don't care what you think of my build. I am merely here to lay the basic ground work, brainstorm and get advice for my next build. When I am confident in my technical hardware choices, I will pull the trigger.

Advice is a wonderful thing, and I want to collect as much of that as possible before I proceed with the actual build. The hater's are gonna hate, and most of their comments go right into the rubbish bin.

Well....I get you...Personally atm I choosed 8 core Xeon on X79 Sabertooth instead of Ryzen 1700 on B450 that I didn't want to keep for me the motherboard was crucial why I did pick X79 and yeah I also like lower latency and quad channel even if it is ddr3.....I still do not want to switch on X99 as I love this platform so I am planing to get myself 2697V2 or maybe 1680V2 but that one is still very expensive so not in a hurry I will wait for opportunity......

P.S.I also have X58 platform for few years with the 6 core Xeon....and it was GREAT + nothing can beat that fast triple-channel memory latency .......

 

[EarthDog]

This all seems like a vendetta to point out Ryzen's inherent lack of quad-channel support, for what appears to be a great multi-core CPU and arch in general. It is glued together by IF, but its core count and game cache are unmatched by Intel right now.

I assume you are joking about this, correct? I think almost everyone in here said to go Ryzen because it suits at least one of his mentioned requirements. Not a soul in here inferred nor said anything about that being a detriment or threw shade at the CPU/Arch/Memory, etc.

What, pray tell, made you feel that way?!

Damn!!!!!! mic drop on all dem Ryzen fanbois

Not the point!!! The man wants his quad channel bandwidth, so I posted a quick SS of what it looks like.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

What, pray tell, made you feel that way?!
Not the point!!! The man wants his quad channel bandwidth, so I posted a quick SS of what it looks like.

I was joking. But your system is still mighty impressive from a memory bandwidth perspective.

 

[storm-chaser]

Perhaps I am still confused...

Just previously you said this:
Maximizing memory throughput and unfettered performance are two different things to me. Unfettered, by definition means to release from restraint or inhibition... your restraint for the given goal (which includes rendering performance - at least it did in the first post) is the CPU. So, it seems that you are prioritizing a quad channel system over unfettered performance (which is OK!!!) since the most unfettered performance you can get for the money you are willing to spend (going by the first post) is with a dual channel AMD Ryzen 3000 CPU (I don't think you can find a TR for $250... but not sure - if so, you may be able to get your cake and eat it too!).

I'm not judging anything. At worst I am not understanding the goals and missing on the suggestions... but hey, I'm a foolish amateur... what do I know?

My CPU choice is yet to be determined. "Unfettered" is akin to "pulling out all the stops" and essentially synonymous with the end goals of overclocking. One of those stops is maximizing memory throughput, one component that is crucial in order to obtain "unfettered" performance. Get it? And yes, I am favoring memory bandwidth over memory latency with this build.

I think part of the problem here is that I do not have an exact "spec" on the PC for you guys to follow.

In other words, peoples perspective's, like earthdogs, might be tainted because they think I already have my heart set on one thing or another. But the reality is, I wanted to further "vet" my processor and hardware choices here, and get feedback on how the build should proceed. Very much just the planning phase, and that's exactly why I posted this thread so the build could evolve properly into a worthwhile creation. I am not ruling anything out at this point in terms of hardware selection.

But at the end of the day, this is just me having fun, and that's why I love computers.

 

[EarthDog]

So your choices are...

The cpus you listed...6850k is the best choice there for quad channel and bandwidth. Best overall is x399 and threadripper...but that may be outside of your budget. Best overall within budget but not quad ch mem is ryzen 3000.

think part of the problem here is that I do not have an exact "spec" on the PC for you guys to follow.

I assure you that isnt it...

 

[storm-chaser]

So your choices are...

The cpus you listed...6850k is the best choice there for quad channel and bandwidth. Best overall is x399 and threadripper...but that may be outside of your budget. Best overall within budget but not quad ch mem is ryzen 3000.

I assure you that isnt it...

So let's take all the pre-requisites out for a moment....

Earthdog and others, what type of rig would you like to see? Just brainstorming idea's here, I like using rare and unique processors so I don't mind if the hardware in question is dated. I am looking for a fun experience, possibly a new platform to learn, and moderate overclocking to go along with that. In other words, what were some of your most rewarding overclocks? I want to tap into that knowledge.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

if your hearts set on Intel HEDT then go for it my x99 system was super fun more so than my 9900k or 3900X ( lots of headaches with memory running above 3000Mhz though ) when it comes to tweaking but from a pure performance standpoint when it comes to rendering Ryzen is king.

 

[Zyll Goliat]

if your hearts set on Intel HEDT then go for it my x99 system was super fun more so than my 9900k or 3900X ( lots of headaches with memory running above 3000Mhz though ) when it comes to tweaking but from a pure performance standpoint when it comes to rendering Ryzen is king.

Well yeah sure there is no doubt that Ryzen overall performs better especially 3000 series where the IPC is way more improved comparing to the first Ryzen series but again the OP obviously have his reasons why he wants to pick some of the platform he mention in his opening post.....If you ask me I will pick X99 or X79 in that case but also I always want to go with the price/performance ratio first so it's really depends what he can find and for what price.....few month ago I get myself X79 Sabertooth+Xeon 2650V2 with total cost of 130€ but yeah I am well aware that still X58,X79 and X99 could be also pricey in certain countries and that you really need to sniff and look around to find a good deals for those platforms.......

 

[silentbogo]

I am looking for a fun experience, possibly a new platform to learn, and moderate overclocking to go along with that. In other words, what were some of your most rewarding overclocks? I want to tap into that knowledge.

First, you need to figure out your goals, cause right now everything you listed collides and bounces with each other.
Most "rewarding" overclock is only possible on LGA1366 with a good motherboard (ASUS Rampage II/III etc), but as I said earlier - it's too old and too slow to do other things, like media encoding and crypto.
Any platform that came after that won't give you impressive +80%OC on CPUs that cost like two cups of coffee.
2011v1 is very cheap nowadays, but there's a reason - it's slow.
2011v3 is currently a sweet-spot for HEDT build, pretty much where 1366 was all those years ago. There are $20 refurb. Xeons on Aliexpress, it's still compatible with many modern parts, and it's still fast enough to do most modern workloads, while giving you some room for expansion. Also, something like i7-5820K can be found under $150 nowadays, which is still far from cheap but at least reasonable.
I found one locally for around $110, which will go into my abovementioned office workstation (assuming I didn't f#$k up SuperI/O replacement). 6950X is still too expensive to justify it over newer platforms, so the only reasonable way to make it more powerful is to throw more cores at the problem (e.g. buy Xeon E5 v3/v4)

2066 - not worth it.
If you really want to spend money - you could try 1st gen threadripper. Prices on brand new parts are low-enough to justify the purchase, and performance is pretty good. The only con is that sTR4 is already a dead-end platform.

 

[storm-chaser]

Well I already have a tiny gaming PC build on the horizon, so I wont be doing micro atx / compact stuff here.

How should I say this... *In this case* I am not interested in competing with the latest tech on the market. Which opens doors in terms of using older hardware. Hence, I don't need to hold this system's performance to the standard of current technology. Sure we will overclock and sure we will extract just as much as we can in terms of throughput, but this is a little like buying a classic car, you get it for the driving experience and you get it because it's distinctive from that time and place. You don't get it for all out brute performance and you certainly don't measure it's value based upon the speed of newer vehicles. Unless you live in Australia. Then you throw a big block in it and a blower and you are set and ready for huge burnouts.

 

[Kapone33]

Well I already have a tiny gaming PC build on the horizon, so I wont be doing micro atx / compact stuff here.

How should I say this... *In this case* I am not interested in competing with the latest tech on the market. Which opens doors in terms of using older hardware. Hence, I don't need to hold this system's performance to the standard of current technology. Sure we will overclock and sure we will extract just as much as we can in terms of throughput, but this is a little like buying a classic car, you get it for the driving experience and you get it because it's distinctive from that time and place. You don't get it for all out brute performance and you certainly don't measure it's value based upon the speed of newer vehicles. Unless you live in Australia. Then you throw a big block in it and a blower and you are set and ready for huge burnouts.

Regardless of what whoever says if you want a system to play with (as you already have a gaming rig) X399 is for me a no brainer. 64 PCI_E lanes is stupid crazy. The 1900X can be had for as low as $149.99 and as much as there were teething issues with X399 BIOS updates have solved a ton of issues the 1920X is $349 and will OC to 4.1 GHZ @ 1.275 volts. One thing I can say as an owner of TR4 is all my games are butter smooth at 4K. You can buy Expansion cards for $80 and put 4 NVME drives in RAID 0 or you could use one or 2 of those and have an all NVME based RAID 0 system across up to 13 NVME drives. Not all X399 boards are made the same though to be honest the best choices based on my testing are As Rock and MSI. If you don't plan on using more than 1 GPU the X399 Phantom Gaming 6 or X399 TaichiM are great as you get 3 fully wired 16 slots.

 

[EarthDog]

First, you need to figure out your goals, cause right now everything you listed collides and bounces with each other.

This. The details of this build have changed dramatically since the first post.

As far as what I want, SChaser... I want you to achieve whatever goal you have set for this build. At this point, I'm still unclear. The first post is a render/advanced cpu work machine, then we go benchmarking/unfettered, then it's benchmarking against like systems, then its 'you pick what you want to see'... so I'm not sure which way is up. Are we still focused on quad channel as a requirement or is that one tidbit from the first post left?

THAT, SChaser, is the painful part for many is that you come across as all over the map. Like other threads, sometimes your thought process is difficult to follow ... it feels like a constantly moving target. We get that you can change your mind and focus on w/e you want to focus on. Nobody said otherwise...but don't bark at users who are trying to help inform you of things (like quad channel RAM not really making a difference in the original use, rendering) ... and then move the goal posts to fit that narrative. If it was there all along, cool... but know e are not mind readers! Do not harsh myself or other users for not knowing (you wanted to benchmark and rate this thing)...we are not 'holding the man down', nor do we want to hear you play the role of a (faux) martyr 'forgive me for building a low latency machine....forgive me for wanting advanced ram subsystem...etc'. That is the type of thread and posts that turn people off of helping. So, I'm not so much tainted that you don't know what you want, just the process with which you try to narrow things down (new information in every post!!!) takes a toll on those helping.

So, in the end, I don't want to see you in anything except whatever meets your goals (whatever those are at this point). I've listed, 3 times already I think, suggestions for the use model in the first post. People have regurgitated suggestions all over to your ever changing requirements. There is plenty here to make an informed decision based on whatever goals are in mind before going to the store and checking out or clicking buy online.

If you want quad channel just to have quad channel and see bigger numbers, so be it. DO IT! 6850K. If you want to render a lot faster and have quad channel (unrelated items, note), pony up the coin for threadripper/X399 like kapone suggested. If you don't want to spend the coin on TR, but want to render faster than the intel, then Ryzen 3000 and its dual channel memory will spank every intel you listed (assuming you spend $250 on the CPU as you have listed int he first post). You can benchmark all three of these machines.

GL, but I think I'm jumping off the merry-go-round at this point...

 

[storm-chaser]

GL, but I think I'm jumping off the merry-go-round at this point...

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

To the people that are having great difficulty understanding why I posted this in the "System Builders Advice" sub forum. Apparently, you don't understand the concept of advisement. Hint: People usually get advice when their goals are not so well defined, and such is the situation with this case. The whole point is to refine my decision making here with assistance from fellow computer enthusiasts. So your entire line of thinking (jumping off the ship because my goals are not yet clearly defined) runs contrary to the very premise of this sub forum. LOL

Usually, you do the consulting / advisement stuff first and then you pull the trigger on the required hardware. In a general sense, my guidelines are still the same, in so much that I want to build a HEDT pc. Of what generation is yet to be determined. This is a clean slate, I am just taking what I see and evaluating it based on what I want. I essentially want an idea I can run with. And obviously, and this goes without saying, nearly everything that earthdog says goes directly into the rubbish bin. Tough to grasp the stifle level with that guy around.

Keep in mind, and as usual, you are the only proverbial bull in the china shop out of the whole lot. Perhaps you should reflect on this for a few minutes before you respond again. Oh, but that's right you are out of here! Off this merry go round as you put it... And I couldn't be more pleased