PSA: AMD's Graphics Driver will Eat One CPU Core when No Radeon Installed

efikkan · Dec 6, 2020

b1k3rdude said:
There is never an excuse for poorly behaving software, but leaving the driver & associated application installed after the relevent GPU is no longer present is just asking for trouble.

These are contradictory statements.
If your software can't handle other hardware being present, then your software is broken.
And as I said, both DirectX 12 and Vulkan is designed to have a mix of GPUs, so they should be aware of this and test it before shipping a new driver.

Nater · Dec 6, 2020

No time to read the whole thread, but I get a sense of the back and forth now...

Has anyone here independently reproduced the issue?

TheoneandonlyMrK · Dec 6, 2020

efikkan said:
These are contradictory statements.
If your software can't handle other hardware being present, then your software is broken.
And as I said, both DirectX 12 and Vulkan is designed to have a mix of GPUs, so they should be aware of this and test it before shipping a new driver.

Clearly not worked in a test department.
That's a Op reading fail right there.

The problem occurs when hardware ISN'T there but the software for it IS.

Who uses Mgpu with multiple cards missing and how?.

To test for this AMD's test department would have had to do similar, remove their GPU and use Dgpu or fit a competition GPU while leaving their software on, I have done application testing ,you stick to thing's you expect to happen not such outliers typically.

Now a code review could find these issues and really is required at this point but some of your expectations for testing are ridiculous IMHO.

rtwjunkie · Dec 6, 2020

Nater said:
No time to read the whole thread, but I get a sense of the back and forth now...

Has anyone here independently reproduced the issue?

Yes, if you read the thread: @Mussels did on his server.

TheGoddessInari said:
Doesn't occur here, you might try reinstalling as you suggested.

I've been buying products since the very first Radeon 32SDR became available, so no, you don't have to do the whole condescending attitude and assume. People can make mistakes, they're allowed. Publishing this ridiculous farce was a mistake, though, and admitting mistakes is the first step on the road to admitting problems that may exist.

No way of knowing if you knew what ATI was, that’s why I asked. Forums get filled with new members who are young and think anything from 5 years ago is ancient history, and know nothing of the past while thinking they have all the answers. So no, not condescending.

Second, the only reason this is a “farce” to you is because you’re obviously acting defensive. It was a clear, in depth investigation into a problem, using coding skills, and published as a bug report and advisory. I’m sorry you live in such a perfect world that no one should ever learn anything from other’s mistakes (W1zzard’s and AMD’s both). There, now THAT was condescending.

R-T-B · Dec 6, 2020

efikkan said:
Perhaps the overhead is "absurd" if you make an isolated test case, but it's not absurd in practice.

In the sense that it impacts actual fps in a non-cpu bound game, no, it's not.

In the sense that it is in actual cpu usage vs the competition (and that will hurt cpubound games), yes, it most certainly is. I've looked into this a lot. dxvk outperforms their dx11 driver in cpu overhead.

Vayra86 · Dec 6, 2020

z1n0x said:
I'm sure, you will be able to share with us, some personal stories about the talentless AMD employees and how they condone shitty quality work.
Driver oopsies happens with everyone. Many WHQL Nvidia drivers have Hotfix releases.
I don't know about microcode problems with AMD, what i do know is that, i had to update my Intel chipset firmware yet again, because of 20+ CVE's.
The amount of times i had to update IME firmware because of CVE's is mind-boggling.

Its very well possible AMD has talented engineers on those drivers, but if they do, they sure don't get to do their job right. Mismanagement can be a cause of bad software releases as much as lack of talent. Or both. Who knows, I just judge the results. AMD driver issues happen and they're often pretty influential on the experience, and fixes don't always come as quickly as you'd want. Nvidia has its oopsies too, but fixes a lot faster, and the magnitude of those oopsies is often less impactful.

medi01 · Dec 6, 2020

Vayra86 said:
on those drivers

It is page 9 and the piece of code in question is still referred to as "drivers".
Good job.

windwhirl · Dec 6, 2020

medi01 said:
It is page 9 and the piece of code in question is still referred to as "drivers".
Good job.

We know the difference, but for the average user it might as well be all the same thing.

zlobby · Dec 6, 2020

When the shit goes down, you better be ready! And I think W1zz was not.

DeathtoGnomes · Dec 6, 2020

Just so ya know Nvidia is not so innocent with bad coding either, despite consistent driver updates.

Old GeForce Experience Bug Won’t Let Some PCs Sleep But There’s A Fix

An old bug in NVIDIA's GeForce Experience grabs input from game controllers and stops the PC from going to sleep. Here's how to cure it.

hothardware.com

jayseearr · Dec 6, 2020

Vayra86 said:
Its very well possible AMD has talented engineers on those drivers, but if they do, they sure don't get to do their job right. Mismanagement can be a cause of bad software releases as much as lack of talent. Or both. Who knows, I just judge the results. AMD driver issues happen and they're often pretty influential on the experience, and fixes don't always come as quickly as you'd want. Nvidia has its oopsies too, but fixes a lot faster, and the magnitude of those oopsies is often less impactful.

well said^ at the end of the day results are the most important thing, how many of these issues actually reach/affect the end user? Myself personally, i've had multitudes of issues with AMD software/drivers/firmware whereas my issues with nvidia have generally been not only much less consistent but less impactful. I like AMD just as much as anybody else, but it doesn't mean I can't/won't admit that they have(had) issues on the soft-ware side of things.

Kinda sad to see how some people have so much of their being/soul attached and invested into a particular brand that they feel the need to get insulted and take every criticism as a direct attack rather than appreciating the fact that it could it potentially improve the thing that they already love SO much.

R-T-B · Dec 6, 2020

DeathtoGnomes said:
Just so ya know Nvidia is not so innocent with bad coding either, despite consistent driver updates.

Old GeForce Experience Bug Won’t Let Some PCs Sleep But There’s A Fix

An old bug in NVIDIA's GeForce Experience grabs input from game controllers and stops the PC from going to sleep. Here's how to cure it.

hothardware.com

True. I'd like to see what's making that happen too.

Mescalamba · Dec 6, 2020

As for those multiple entries. Noticed that on PC from 2009. So AMD/ATi drivers dont change since then. Also it loves to load drivers multiple times, to the point that hybrid sleep and start is broken (some AMD driver just cant cope with it).

WeeRab · Dec 6, 2020

I didn't realize W1zzard was such a novice.
Even a novice knows to use DDU or summat similar to uninstall previous graphics drivers before installing new ones.
Strewth!!

zlobby · Dec 6, 2020

Mescalamba said:
As for those multiple entries. Noticed that on PC from 2009. So AMD/ATi drivers dont change since then. Also it loves to load drivers multiple times, to the point that hybrid sleep and start is broken (some AMD driver just cant cope with it).

I guess we are pretty far from lean, concise and robust drivers. Basically, they need to get everything from the ground up. There is simply no way for them to refactor such a mess of spaghetti.

wolf · Dec 7, 2020

I'd say I'm blown away by how far people will go to insinuate this is a witch hunt, downplay it as a foolish user, white night for AMD, shit on AMD etc, but unfortunately I can't say that hand-on-heart.

The software should not act like this, period. That's really all there is to it.

This PSA will help people (as it already has in this comments section) and hopefully, lead to the issue being fixed for all.

Put down the pitchforks...

R-T-B · Dec 7, 2020

WeeRab said:
I didn't realize W1zzard was such a novice.
Even a novice knows to use DDU or summat similar to uninstall previous graphics drivers before installing new ones.
Strewth!!

Yes, because novices totally know how to disassemble a program and assemble a PSA like this...

/s, if it isn't obvious. You "fans" are honestly giving AMD a bad name.

rtwjunkie · Dec 7, 2020

WeeRab said:
I didn't realize W1zzard was such a novice.
Even a novice knows to use DDU or summat similar to uninstall previous graphics drivers before installing new ones.
Strewth!!

You display your ignorance on your shirt like it’s a badge of honor.

Mussels · Dec 7, 2020

Nater said:
No time to read the whole thread, but I get a sense of the back and forth now...

Has anyone here independently reproduced the issue?

Yep, it was affecting my games server

OneMoar · Dec 7, 2020

./thread

lexluthermiester · Dec 7, 2020

WeeRab said:
I didn't realize W1zzard was such a novice.
Even a novice knows to use DDU or summat similar to uninstall previous graphics drivers before installing new ones.
Strewth!!

Wow! That really says infinitely more about you than W1zzard. Would you like to offer any more gems of insight to amuse the rest of us?

Mussels · Dec 7, 2020

God i love this

"BUT YOU CAN FIX IT"

yes.... we know. we all know. a PSA is to make people aware that they need to fix it...

DeathtoGnomes · Dec 7, 2020

rtwjunkie said:
You display your ignorance on your shirt like it’s a badge of honor.

Wait, what badges? I have one here somewhere....

R-T-B · Dec 7, 2020

DeathtoGnomes said:
I have on here somewhere....

Not anymore. W1zzard siphoned all our knowledge-badges and combined them to give himself superpowers.

Or at least, that's how I'm going to explain my incompetence at work today (OT, don't ask).

Aoyagi · Dec 7, 2020

It's not just when there's no AMD GPU either. It's doing the exact same thing on my 2700U.

Processor	AMD Ryzen 9 5900X \|\|\| Intel Core i7-3930K
Motherboard	ASUS ProArt B550-CREATOR \|\|\| Asus P9X79 WS
Cooling	Noctua NH-U14S \|\|\| Be Quiet Pure Rock
Memory	Crucial 2 x 16 GB 3200 MHz \|\|\| Corsair 8 x 8 GB 1333 MHz
Video Card(s)	MSI GTX 1060 3GB \|\|\| MSI GTX 680 4GB
Storage	Samsung 970 PRO 512 GB + 1 TB \|\|\| Intel 545s 512 GB + 256 GB
Display(s)	Asus ROG Swift PG278QR 27" \|\|\| Eizo EV2416W 24"
Case	Fractal Design Define 7 XL x 2
Audio Device(s)	Cambridge Audio DacMagic Plus
Power Supply	Seasonic Focus PX-850 x 2
Mouse	Razer Abyssus
Keyboard	CM Storm QuickFire XT
Software	Ubuntu

System Name	Fractal
Processor	Intel Core i5 13600K
Motherboard	Asus ProArt Z790 Creator WiFi
Cooling	Arctic Cooling Liquid Freezer II 360
Memory	16GBx2 G.SKILL Ripjaws S5 DDR5 6000 CL30-40-40-96 (F5-6000J3040F16GX2-RS5K)
Video Card(s)	PNY RTX A2000 6GB
Storage	SK Hynix Platinum P41 2TB
Display(s)	LG 34GK950F-B (34"/IPS/1440p/21:9/144Hz/FreeSync)
Case	Fractal Design R6 Gunmetal Blackout w/ USB-C
Audio Device(s)	Steelseries Arctis 7 Wireless/Klipsch Pro-Media 2.1BT
Power Supply	Seasonic Prime 850w 80+ Titanium
Mouse	Logitech G700S
Keyboard	Corsair K68
Software	Windows 11 Pro

System Name	RyzenGtEvo/ Asus strix scar II
Processor	Amd R5 5900X/ Intel 8750H
Motherboard	Crosshair hero8 impact/Asus
Cooling	360EK extreme rad+ 360$EK slim all push, cpu ek suprim Gpu full cover all EK
Memory	Corsair Vengeance Rgb pro 3600cas14 16Gb in four sticks./16Gb/16GB
Video Card(s)	Powercolour RX7900XT Reference/Rtx 2060
Storage	Silicon power 2TB nvme/8Tb external/1Tb samsung Evo nvme 2Tb sata ssd/1Tb nvme
Display(s)	Samsung UAE28"850R 4k freesync.dell shiter
Case	Lianli 011 dynamic/strix scar2
Audio Device(s)	Xfi creative 7.1 on board ,Yamaha dts av setup, corsair void pro headset
Power Supply	corsair 1200Hxi/Asus stock
Mouse	Roccat Kova/ Logitech G wireless
Keyboard	Roccat Aimo 120
VR HMD	Oculus rift
Software	Win 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores	8726 vega 3dmark timespy/ laptop Timespy 6506

System Name	Bayou Phantom
Processor	Core i7-8700k 4.4Ghz @ 1.18v
Motherboard	ASRock Z390 Phantom Gaming 6
Cooling	All air: 2x140mm Fractal exhaust; 3x 140mm Cougar Intake; Enermax T40F Black CPU cooler
Memory	2x 16GB Mushkin Redline DDR-4 3200
Video Card(s)	EVGA RTX 2080 Ti Xc
Storage	1x 500 MX500 SSD; 2x 6TB WD Black; 1x 4TB WD Black; 1x400GB VelRptr; 1x 4TB WD Blue storage (eSATA)
Display(s)	HP 27q 27" IPS @ 2560 x 1440
Case	Fractal Design Define R4 Black w/Titanium front -windowed
Audio Device(s)	Soundblaster Z
Power Supply	Seasonic X-850
Mouse	Coolermaster Sentinel III (large palm grip!)
Keyboard	Logitech G610 Orion mechanical (Cherry Brown switches)
Software	Windows 10 Pro 64-bit (Start10 & Fences 3.0 installed)

System Name	Pioneer
Processor	Ryzen R9 7950X
Motherboard	GIGABYTE Aorus Elite X670 AX
Cooling	Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory	64GB (4x 16GB) G.Skill Flare X5 @ DDR5-6000 CL30
Video Card(s)	XFX RX 7900 XTX Speedster Merc 310
Storage	2x Crucial P5 Plus 2TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs
Display(s)	55" LG 55" B9 OLED 4K Display
Case	Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s)	TOSLINK->Schiit Modi MB->Asgard 2 DAC Amp->AKG Pro K712 Headphones or HDMI->B9 OLED
Power Supply	FSP Hydro Ti Pro 850W
Mouse	Logitech G305 Lightspeed Wireless
Keyboard	WASD Code v3 with Cherry Green keyswitches + PBT DS keycaps
Software	Gentoo Linux x64

PSA: AMD's Graphics Driver will Eat One CPU Core when No Radeon Installed

efikkan

Nater

TheoneandonlyMrK

rtwjunkie

PC Gaming Enthusiast

R-T-B

Vayra86

medi01

windwhirl

zlobby

DeathtoGnomes

Old GeForce Experience Bug Won’t Let Some PCs Sleep But There’s A Fix

jayseearr

R-T-B

Old GeForce Experience Bug Won’t Let Some PCs Sleep But There’s A Fix

Mescalamba

WeeRab

zlobby

wolf

Performance Enthusiast

R-T-B

rtwjunkie

PC Gaming Enthusiast

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator

OneMoar

There is Always Moar

lexluthermiester

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator

DeathtoGnomes

R-T-B

Aoyagi

Processor	i7 8700k 4.6Ghz @ 1.24V
Motherboard	AsRock Fatal1ty K6 Z370
Cooling	beQuiet! Dark Rock Pro 3
Memory	16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200/C16
Video Card(s)	ASRock RX7900XT Phantom Gaming
Storage	Samsung 850 EVO 1TB + Samsung 830 256GB + Crucial BX100 250GB + Toshiba 1TB HDD
Display(s)	Gigabyte G34QWC (3440x1440)
Case	Fractal Design Define R5
Audio Device(s)	Harman Kardon AVR137 + 2.1
Power Supply	EVGA Supernova G2 750W
Mouse	XTRFY M42
Keyboard	Lenovo Thinkpad Trackpoint II
Software	W10 x64

System Name	M3401 notebook
Processor	5600H
Motherboard	NA
Memory	16GB
Video Card(s)	3050
Storage	500GB SSD
Display(s)	14" OLED screen of the laptop
Software	Windows 10
Benchmark Scores	3050 scores good 15-20% lower than average, despite ASUS's claims that it has uber cooling.

System Name	System V
Processor	AMD Ryzen 5 3600
Motherboard	Asus Prime X570-P
Cooling	Cooler Master Hyper 212 // a bunch of 120 mm Xigmatek 1500 RPM fans (2 ins, 3 outs)
Memory	2x8GB Ballistix Sport LT 3200 MHz (BLS8G4D32AESCK.M8FE) (CL16-18-18-36)
Video Card(s)	Gigabyte AORUS Radeon RX 580 8 GB
Storage	SHFS37A240G / DT01ACA200 / WD20EZRX / MKNSSDTR256GB-3DL / LG BH16NS40 / ST10000VN0008
Display(s)	LG 22MP55 IPS Display
Case	NZXT Source 210
Audio Device(s)	Logitech G430 Headset
Power Supply	Corsair CX650M
Mouse	Microsoft Trackball Optical 1.0
Keyboard	HP Vectra VE keyboard (Part # D4950-63004)
Software	Whatever build of Windows 11 is being served in Dev channel at the time.
Benchmark Scores	Corona 1.3: 3120620 r/s Cinebench R20: 3355 FireStrike: 12490 TimeSpy: 4624

System Name	Dumbass
Processor	AMD Ryzen 7800X3D
Motherboard	ASUS TUF gaming B650
Cooling	Artic Liquid Freezer 2 - 420mm
Memory	G.Skill Sniper 32gb DDR5 6000
Video Card(s)	GreenTeam 4070 ti super 16gb
Storage	Samsung EVO 500gb & 1Tb, 2tb HDD, 500gb WD Black
Display(s)	1x Nixeus NX_EDG27, 2x Dell S2440L (16:9)
Case	Phanteks Enthoo Primo w/8 140mm SP Fans
Audio Device(s)	onboard (realtek?) - SPKRS:Logitech Z623 200w 2.1
Power Supply	Corsair HX1000i
Mouse	Steeseries Esports Wireless
Keyboard	Corsair K100
Software	windows 10 H
Benchmark Scores	https://i.imgur.com/aoz3vWY.jpg?2

System Name	Yin/Yang
Processor	Ryzen 7 3700x
Motherboard	msi mag x570 tomahawk
Cooling	CoolerMaster ML240V2 / asiahorse fs9002 120mm fans
Memory	2 x 16gb g.skill trident z neo 3600
Video Card(s)	msi gaming X 2070 super 8gb
Storage	1tb sabrent rocket nvme / 1tb samsung evo 860 sata ssd / 3tb Toshiba hdd
Display(s)	lg ultragear 2560x1440 144hz 1ms 27"ips
Case	nzxt h510i
Audio Device(s)	logitech g635 / creative sound blaster
Power Supply	evga supernova 750ga 80 plus gold
Mouse	logitech g402 hyperion fury
Keyboard	corsair k55

System Name	MightyX
Processor	Ryzen 5800X3D
Motherboard	Gigabyte X570 I Aorus Pro WiFi
Cooling	Scythe Fuma 2
Memory	32GB DDR4 3600 CL16
Video Card(s)	Asus TUF RTX3080 Deshrouded
Storage	WD Black SN850X 2TB
Display(s)	LG 42C2 4K OLED
Case	Coolermaster NR200P
Audio Device(s)	LG SN5Y / Focal Clear
Power Supply	Corsair SF750 Platinum
Mouse	Corsair Dark Core RBG Pro SE
Keyboard	Glorious GMMK Compact w/pudding
VR HMD	Meta Quest 3
Software	case populated with Artic P12's
Benchmark Scores	4k120 OLED Gsync bliss

System Name	Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor	Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
Motherboard	Asus x570-F (BIOS Modded)
Cooling	Alphacool Apex UV - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora + EK Quantum ARGB 3090 w/ active backplate
Memory	2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3866 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V Hynix MJR - SoC 1.15V)
Video Card(s)	Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
Storage	2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s)	Phillips 32 32M1N5800A (4k144), LG 32" (4K60) \| Gigabyte G32QC (2k165) \| Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2K144)
Case	Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s)	Logitech G560 \| Corsair Void pro RGB \|Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply	Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse	Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard	Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD	Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software	Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores	Nyooom.

System Name	RPC MK2.5
Processor	Ryzen 5800x
Motherboard	Gigabyte Aorus Pro V2
Cooling	Enermax ETX-T50RGB
Memory	CL16 BL2K16G36C16U4RL 3600 1:1 micron e-die
Video Card(s)	GIGABYTE RTX 3070 Ti GAMING OC
Storage	ADATA SX8200PRO NVME 512GB, Intel 545s 500GBSSD, ADATA SU800 SSD, 3TB Spinner
Display(s)	LG Ultra Gear 32 1440p 165hz Dell 1440p 75hz
Case	Phanteks P300 /w 300A front panel conversion
Audio Device(s)	onboard
Power Supply	SeaSonic Focus+ Platinum 750W
Mouse	Kone burst Pro
Keyboard	EVGA Z15
Software	Windows 11 +startisallback