Putting together a fairly high-end computer in the new year and could use some guidance

[ir_cow]

Thanks ir_cow. So to clarify, the graphics card drops to gen 4 x8 (like gen 3 x16, ~16GB/s)? I think I'll definitely be OK with that bandwidth.

No, it will be x8 (Gen4) or x8 (Gen3). The slot in short turns into a x8 slot if that M.2 Gen5 socket is used regardless of the type of M2 NVMe because it is stealing those PCIe lanes from the x16 slot.

Unclear on second slot being disabled though. Are we talking about the Intel motherboards that DO have PCI-E 5.0 M.2? Taking it away from CPU PCI-E lanes that would go to GPU normally, so using the mobo M.2 disables the second actual PCI-E x16 slot?

The MSI Z690 Carbon is a bad example because it doesn't have a M.2 Gen5 socket, but the picture will help. Say a MB has two x16 slots (First two slots in photo). When they are both in use they drop to x8/x8 because its sharing the x16 coming from the CPU (regardless of Gen type). When the M.2 Gen5 socket is used (lets say above the PCIe slot), you lose the second x16 slot because that x8 is now going to the M.2 socket instead.

Image Iink

How about the PCI-E 5.0 adapter cards with M.2 slots for PCI-E 5.0 SSDs - same deal? And are these cards available for purchase yet? And bootable? Sorry. That's a lot of questions.

Same deal, they go into that second slot, which means if a MB has both M.2 Gen5 socket and a add-on card, either you need to put it in the first slot and lose the video card or not use the M.2 socket. I don't know if they are bootable for OS, but I'm going to say, probably not.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Gaming. Mostly native Windows games but I would love to emulate some high-res Playstation 3 Ratchet & Clank, hence the overkill CPU.

The system you stated in the OP will fill your needs very well. One thing you left out was resolution? 1080p, 1440p or 2160p? The higher you go the more GPU power you will want. A 3070ti will be fine for 1080p and 1440p, but for 4k games are starting to push above the 8GB VRAM boundary. You may wish to spend the extra for a 4080 16GB. You'll thank yourself later.

 

[ir_cow]

Also that Asrock Z790 Steel Legend WiFi is the only one one the list that has a M.2 Gen 5 socket.

 

[mechtech]

Putting together a fairly high-end computer​

Hmmm and here I thought my Cray was only mid-range.

so a gaming pc

psu. Fsp decent. Are many others though. I’ve had some bad luck with seasonic focus series so I gave super flower and fractal a try and have been happy with them. (Gold/platinum)
Could also look into latest gen atx3.0 PSU but early adopter tax is high.

cpu. Could go 6 cores and put extra coin on gpu.

for storage and the amount of space games are using up keep regular ssd sata drives in mind. They offer almost same loading speed as nvme but might offer better value in high capacity drives vs nvme.

look out for warranties. Longer the better. Usually. Hopefully

if you play older games may want to look into dx9 june redistributed and Techpowerup visC package.

good luck

 

[CLXIV]

Thanks all for the advice, really appreciate it!

 

[Vario]

Hello! I'll hopefully be putting together a fairly high-end computer in the new year and could use some guidance. The last PC I assembled was Coffee Lake and I know a few things have changed, so I might be a little out of touch.

...

For the case, what are the best all-round full towers now? I love the Lian Li O11D XL-A for the looks (the one with tinted glass and uncoloured aluminium) but it doesn't look like any air is coming in through the front and I keep trying to stop myself buying cases based on looks. It's unclear whether or not I'll succeed.

...

I recommend the Lian Li O11 Dynamic Evo because it has a front mesh kit, if that isn't big enough for you, there should be an O11 Dynamic XL Evo in a few months. If you can't wait for the Evo XL, There are custom third party front mesh panels for the current O11 XL, usually made of cut lexan. The Lian Li O11 Dynamic Evo line has an official first party mesh front kit sold here https://lian-li.com/product/o11de-4/. The Evo line has much more breathable intake surfaces (they greatly revised the mesh). The Old O11 Dynamic and Dynamic XL basically relied on its overall volume to offset the poor airflow, but the newer Evo designs have really nice mesh.

https://lian-li.com/product/o11-dynamic-evo/ They have a raw metal color option "harbor gray".

I have the O11 Air Mini, which has the front mesh kit from the factory, and while I like the case, it is cramped, especially with the E-ATX board I shoehorned in. The Evo series has that extra bit of space the O11 Air Mini is lacking. Avoid the "O11 Air" (the non mini). What I love about the O11 is it is almost entirely metal including the panel attachments. The only plastic parts on mine are the feet and the side trim that the power reset usb is mounted upon. This is in contrast to some of the other brands, where a metal front panel might have a plastic backing and plastic mounting pegs. The O11 Air Mini is like a scaled down O11 Dynamic Evo.

Things I like about the O11 Air Mini (which translate to the O11 Dynamic Evo):
1) Air cooling performance is fantastic.
2) The outside looks good, if rectangular prisms are your thing.
3) Internal wires are easily hidden, so it looks really clean.
4) It is almost entirely metal. It feels extremely sturdy.

 

[CLXIV]

Well there's a guy who really loves his computer case :-D Thanks but I've checked out the others in the range and nothing looks nicer than silver and tint. Also I want it to fit mentally huge heatsinks. I think I've pretty much settled on this (GPU being a placeholder for 4070 Ti or new Radeon):

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i7-13700K 3.4 GHz 16-Core Processor (£422.74 @ Technextday)
CPU Cooler: Thermalright Frost Commander 140 95.5 CFM CPU Cooler (£115.00)
Thermal Compound: Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut Extreme 2 g Thermal Paste (£24.00 @ Computer Orbit)
Motherboard: ASRock Z790 Steel Legend WiFi ATX LGA1700 Motherboard (£320.48 @ Overclockers.co.uk)
Memory: Kingston Renegade Silver 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-6400 CL32 Memory (£240.95 @ CCL Computers)
Storage: Crucial BX500 480 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (Purchased For £0.00)
Storage: Western Digital Black SN850 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive (Purchased For £0.00)
Storage: Hitachi Ultrastar 7K3000 2 TB 3.5" 7200 RPM Internal Hard Drive (Purchased For £0.00)
Video Card: MSI VENTUS 3X OC GeForce RTX 3070 Ti 8 GB Video Card (£850.00)
Case: Lian Li O11D XL-A ATX Full Tower Case (£213.45 @ Currys PC World)
Power Supply: be quiet! Dark Power 12 750 W 80+ Titanium Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply (£175.19 @ Technextday)
Case Fan: Scythe Slipstream 88.11 CFM 120 mm Fan (£14.26 @ Amazon UK)
Case Fan: Scythe Slipstream 88.11 CFM 120 mm Fan (£14.26 @ Amazon UK)
Case Fan: Scythe Slipstream 88.11 CFM 120 mm Fan (£14.26 @ Amazon UK)
Case Fan: Scythe Slipstream 88.11 CFM 120 mm Fan (£14.26 @ Amazon UK)
Total: £2418.85
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2022-12-08 21:27 GMT+0000

 

[Vario]

Well there's a guy who really loves his computer case :-D Thanks but I've checked out the others in the range and nothing looks nicer than silver and tint. Also I want it to fit mentally huge heatsinks.

The O11 XL-A has max aircooler height of 167mm, the O11 Air Mini has 170mm. The O11 Evo has 167mm, but does have much better mesh design than the ventilation slits of the O11 XL-A.

I run a NHD15S in mine, it fits.

 

[CLXIV]

Good catch - I think I got mixed up with another similar Lian Li with more limited cooler space.

Ah I'm on the fence now. I've got crappy lighting in here anyway so shouldn't prioritise looks so much. But silver + tint looks SO good. The grey is close though. Presumably no fans included, same as XL?

 

[Count von Schwalbe]

One thing about the Intel VS AMD - Zen 4 has AVX-512, which was not enabled in W1zzard's PS3 Emulation test. This generally has drastic benefits.

 

[Hofnaerrchen]

ATX 3.0 does have value in that they are also natively pci-e 5.0 compliant. As well as for future upgrades in regards to the (halfwit) 12vhpwr connector for Nvidia cards going forward. Primarily high end from what I remember, 4090 and 4080.

Based on a recent article by Igor you are currently just paying a hefty markup in return for NOTHING. If you need a PCIe 5.0 GPU plug you can get a special cable that will fit in the old PCIe GPU sockets of the ATX 2.x from the selected brand for most of their ATX 2.x PSUs aswell - without having to pay more for features that are either "optional" in the ATX 3.0 standard (in other words: pay another markup if you want them) or not supported either by current gen products.

When building a new computer it's good to keep future upgradability in mind but not at the cost of something that will just rise your bill but does not offer anything usefull today.

 

[CLXIV]

@Count von Schwalbe that's really good to know. I'll definitely switch over if Ryzen has a lead. Did W1zzard acknowledge this? Seems weird he'd put the Ryzens at a handicap. Also means I need benchmarks from somewhere that has AVX512 enabled. Is there any reason to disable AVX512? Does it limit boost clocks or something? I remember having to use an AVX offset for stable overclocks on my 9700K (different AVX set I know).

@Vario the mesh has convinced me. They'll probably look the same in person anyway (can't really judge by perfect lighting professional photographer images). Going with the Evo!

 

[Vario]

@Count von Schwalbe that's really good to know. I'll definitely switch over if Ryzen has a lead. Did W1zzard acknowledge this? Seems weird he'd put the Ryzens at a handicap. Also means I need benchmarks from somewhere that has AVX512 enabled. Is there any reason to disable AVX512? Does it limit boost clocks or something? I remember having to use an AVX offset for stable overclocks on my 9700K (different AVX set I know).

@Vario the mesh has convinced me. They'll probably look the same in person anyway (can't really judge by perfect lighting professional photographer images). Going with the Evo!

One thing I like about that Evo is the customization.

For sure, get the mesh front option.

Also, I should note that in addition to the slits being crappy, the earliest of O11 didn't even have a 120mm rear fan exhaust, it had a 92mm and it didn't fit a full height cooler. They came a long ways.

 

[maxfly]

Based on a recent article by Igor you are currently just paying a hefty markup in return for NOTHING. If you need a PCIe 5.0 GPU plug you can get a special cable that will fit in the old PCIe GPU sockets of the ATX 2.x from the selected brand for most of their ATX 2.x PSUs aswell - without having to pay more for features that are either "optional" in the ATX 3.0 standard (in other words: pay another markup if you want them) or not supported either by current gen products.

When building a new computer it's good to keep future upgradability in mind but not at the cost of something that will just rise your bill but does not offer anything usefull today.

Well, when you can get a 750w Seasonic Vertex gold unit upon release for $150, that's pretty solid value (the problem is how vague they have been with the specific release date). There's always going to be early adoption pain but the current ATX 3.0 gouging going on, I would never recommend for obvious reasons. Prices are simply stupid right now due to the fact that so many adapters have failed creating an abnormally high demand for anything ATX 3.0 (good or bad). Personally, if I were in the market for another PSU, I would wait for a Vertex. That's not a reflection on how I would advise someone building a rig today.

 

[CLXIV]

Ahhhh it was the O11 Air I was getting it mixed up with. Butt ugly too.

 

[Vario]

Ahhhh it was the O11 Air I was getting it mixed up with. Butt ugly too.

Oh that thing is dreadful. AVOID.

 

[Count von Schwalbe]

@Count von Schwalbe that's really good to know. I'll definitely switch over if Ryzen has a lead. Did W1zzard acknowledge this? Seems weird he'd put the Ryzens at a handicap. Also means I need benchmarks from somewhere that has AVX512 enabled. Is there any reason to disable AVX512? Does it limit boost clocks or something? I remember having to use an AVX offset for stable overclocks on my 9700K (different AVX set I know

I think it was disabled by default, but the only app it applied to in his review was the PS3 emulator.

I haven't found any reviews with it enabled, but I will look around.

Ok, so I have found a lot of conflicting information. W1zzard mentioned around 10% boost, but in another place I saw that the boost was around 20%, "except in games like RDR" it should be more. As this is the game W1zzard was testing, I can't tell exactly.

Anyways, the list below is sorted by performance - and the Ryzens top the list, FWIW. Both CPU's talked about here are not on the list, but it should be pretty accurate across arch.

RPCS3 CPU DATA

docs.google.com

 

[CLXIV]

Looking at the 13700K TPU review, there's almost a 36% lead in RPCS3 vs 7900X. So from your numbers it sounds like AVX512 won't close the gap (certainly won't exceed it).

 

[3x0]

Looking at the 13700K TPU review, there's almost a 36% lead in RPCS3 vs 7900X. So from your numbers it sounds like AVX512 won't close the gap (certainly won't exceed it).

Again, they used an older version of RPCS3 in the review. Ask someone from RPCS3 forums with Zen 4 how it performs now

 

[evernessince]

Looking at the 13700K TPU review, there's almost a 36% lead in RPCS3 vs 7900X. So from your numbers it sounds like AVX512 won't close the gap (certainly won't exceed it).

TechSpot tested a single game on an older version. As with any other benchmark, a single game is not representative of the whole.

Here is the tier list for RPCS3: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Rpq_2D4Rf3g6O-x2R1fwTSKWvJH7X63kExsVxHnT2Mc/edit#gid=0

Anything in the S-tier should be good. You can save a lot of money by going 7700X given you don't intend on using the cores plus you add a future upgrade path.

 

[TechHalp]

4070 TI will absolutely, without a doubt be the most overpriced, worst performing card to come out in the past 3 years. Did you learn nothing from them calling it a 4080 12 GB, then changing the name but not the price?!

The 3090 TI will be both cheaper and faster by the time the 4070 TI comes out, I'd bet money on it. Not only that, it has 24 GB of vram so it will last longer.

Personally, I would recommend getting a 5800X3D, AM4 mobo, DDR4 3600hz ram, and using all that wasted money on a 4090 or 7900 xtx instead. If you're going for intel same thing, last gen cpu/ram, use the extra money for a beastly 4090 GPU instead of that borderline theft card.