Ryzen Owners Zen Garden

[tabascosauz]

RAM tweaking on AM5 vs. AM4, any thoughts?

idk, DDR5 confuses me. And no one has a good comprehensive guide yet on DDR5 and AM5 minor voltages. Hynix seems a little bit simpler than B-die timings.

But, well, 64GB on AM4 is either garbage performance or impossibly rare (EOL 2x32 Ballistix Max), so DDR5 is just good value for >32GB.

A nice thing is that TM5 apparently picks up UCLK stability issues as well on AM5. But that was probably also true on AM4, just that UCLK was irrelevant and never broke a sweat for more than a handful of people.

 

[Count von Schwalbe]

Minimum? 5950X is one of the easiest AM4 CPUs to cool. You could probably adequately cool a stock 5950X with something like a SI100, if not even lower.

If you want to actually push the 5950X? Then you're looking at the usual suspects - FC140, PS120EVO, etc.

Density wise yes but I was worried about total TDP. I only had a Wraith (prism?) handy so I ended up going with a Phantom Spirit. Better to have the peace of mind than save the $5-10 to go with the PA120.

 

[tabascosauz]

Density wise yes but I was worried about total TDP. I only had a Wraith (prism?) handy so I ended up going with a Phantom Spirit. Better to have the peace of mind than save the $5-10 to go with the PA120.

Yes, overall power is what we're talking about since 5950X has the same ST density characteristics as any other CPU and there's not much MT density issue. I don't know who gave you the impression that a PA120 is not enough. 5950X is hands down the easiest CPU in the original Vermeer stack to cool, I'd be reasonably confident with a NH-U9S.

In any case, there's a small gap between PA120/FC140/PS120/PS120EVO. We're not on Intel.

 

[AusWolf]

single core boosts should still be 5.1 ghz correct? all 4.8ghz?

just want to make sure my numbers are right with -30

You'll get those clocks with or without PBO as long as your cooling is good enough.

 

[tabascosauz]

6400 being rather underwhelming

Nearly 10W higher SOC power!

 

[AusWolf]

6400 being rather underwhelming

Yeah, even the 6500 XT is a much better buy.

Sorry, couldn't miss it.

Nearly 10W higher SOC power!

That's why I don't do any memory OC. With a 7800X3D, even the basic 4800 MHz is fine, but it lowers your SoC power and idle heat considerably.

 

[thesmokingman]

Out with the old and in with the new. Also upgraded to an Optimus block. The Prime boards silver matches the Aqua backplate pretty nicely. It's like a carnival in there lol.

This rig went from 5800x to 7800X3D.

 

[tabascosauz]

Yeah, even the 6500 XT is a much better buy.

Sorry, couldn't miss it.


That's why I don't do any memory OC. With a 7800X3D, even the basic 4800 MHz is fine, but it lowers your SoC power and idle heat considerably.

I don't think I would go down that far, I did pay for a 2x32GB A-die kit after all.

Interestingly enough, losing 7-9W to SOC power had no detrimental effect on CPU performance. Clocks were almost identical.

Doubly interesting, higher SOC power had little to no effect on idle temps, but made ~1C difference under load.

 

[AusWolf]

Interestingly enough, losing 7-9W to SOC power had no detrimental effect on CPU performance. Clocks were almost identical.

That's because the 7800X3D doesn't even use half of its power limit anyway.

Doubly interesting, higher SOC power had little to no effect on idle temps, but made ~1C difference under load.

Now, that's strange.

 

[Space Lynx]

@freeagent never ran OCCT cause i never had an issue with gaming or anything, so i just ran OCCT based on your comment, within 2 minutes it was like nope you aint doing -30 all core buddy, nice fucking try though

lol

so I took your advice again, -25 all core in bios under CO - reboot - run OCCT - im 20 minutes in and 0 issues and temps are 67 celsius basically the entire time.

nice to know I am fully stable now. will leave it this way and be content, cheers for the help, now i can get back to gaming


edit: that 67 celsius is with stock fans, i noticed my two rear exahust fans really aren't blowing much at all, so going to increase their fan curve just to a mild/medium fan curve of stock, i can prob bring that 67 down to 64 or 62 and still won't be that loud.

one thing that impresses me about 7900 xt is how many games i play and the fans never even turn on... its wild to me, never experienced anything like this. just cause temps are so good cause the game is so easy to run, now in god of war or something, of course the fans ramp up but yeah cool stuff. dust can suck it

@freeagent thanks again for the OCCT recommendation, going to make sure my 7800x3d is actually fully stable at -30, so far it is with Cinebench 23 and r24 multi, and games, and prime95, but so was my 5600x3d until OCCT... but then -25 the OCCT passed

so going to do same test this time with the 7800x3d

@AusWolf so you don't do an undervolt on your 7800x3d? you just turn on expo, reboot and that's it for the BIOS changes? and you get 4.8 all core and 5.0 single core? so why do people do undervolt, I am confused.

 

[tabascosauz]

That's because the 7800X3D doesn't even use half of its power limit anyway.


Now, that's strange.

That's what I thought too but I don't think the X3Ds behave conventionally as to power. 5800X3D had a really weird relationship with PPT and reducing SOC power did make a quantifiable difference despite being far from 142W.

Here with the 7800X3D I'm not sure yet. Still working on my 6400 profile. Works fine but trying to get volts down as low as possible. VSOC dropped off at 1.15V, running fine at 1.18V now. Testing VDD at 1.35V now.

 

[AusWolf]

@AusWolf so you don't do an undervolt on your 7800x3d? you just turn on expo, reboot and that's it for the BIOS changes? and you get 4.8 all core and 5.0 single core? so why do people do undervolt, I am confused.

That's right. The only thing I "undervolt" is the SoC which defaults to 1.3 V on my board with EXPO on, but 1.2 is more than enough.

As to why other people undervolt a 7800X3D that has a max VCore of around 1.0 V, I have no idea. It consumes 80-90 W under full load, and with any decent tower cooler, it's so far away from any kind of limit that you don't get higher clocks anyway. The only advantage I can think of is reduced thermals for instances when your cooling isn't good enough.

I've just popped in my 7700X for some testing, and even this thing needs max PBO to be temperature limited with a Dark Rock 4. It goes up to 145-146 W in bursty loads, but settles down at around 140-142 W (which is the default PPT) once it reaches 95 °C. I might try to do some undervolt with this chip, as I think 1.3-1.35 VCore might be a bit too much even above 5.1 GHz.

That's what I thought too but I don't think the X3Ds behave conventionally as to power. 5800X3D had a really weird relationship with PPT and reducing SOC power did make a quantifiable difference despite being far from 142W.

Here with the 7800X3D I'm not sure yet. Still working on my 6400 profile. Works fine but trying to get volts down as low as possible. VSOC dropped off at 1.15V, running fine at 1.18V now. Testing VDD at 1.35V now.

Even a couple of Watts saved can get you better core performance when you're sitting right on PPT, or a thermal limit (like with a 7700X, for example) but it does absolutely nothing when you're not even using half of your PPT by default and you're barely crossing 80 °C. The only limitation of the 7800X3D is its factory clock bins, just like an oldschool Intel CPU.

 

[Space Lynx]

That's right. The only thing I "undervolt" is the SoC which defaults to 1.3 V on my board with EXPO on, but 1.2 is more than enough.

As to why other people undervolt a 7800X3D that has a max VCore of around 1.0 V, I have no idea. It consumes 80-90 W under full load, and with any decent tower cooler, it's so far away from any kind of limit that you don't get higher clocks anyway. The only advantage I can think of is reduced thermals for instances when your cooling isn't good enough.

I've just popped in my 7700X for some testing, and even this thing needs max PBO to be temperature limited with a Dark Rock 4. It goes up to 145-146 W in bursty loads, but settles down at around 140-142 W, which is the default PPT. I might try to do some undervolt with this chip, as I think 1.3-1.35 VCore might be a bit too much even above 5.1 GHz.


Even a couple of Watts saved can get you better core performance when you're sitting right on PPT, or a thermal limit (like with a 7700X, for example) but it does absolutely nothing when you're not even using half of your PPT by default and you're barely crossing 80 °C. The only limitation of the 7800X3D is its factory clock bins, just like an oldschool Intel CPU.

so BIOS > EXPO on > SoC voltage change from 1.3 to 1.2 > reboot, nothing else? I may give this a go just for the heck of it. I am using the 360mm AIO that is well rated, so cooling shouldn't be an issue.

 

[AusWolf]

so BIOS > EXPO on > SoC voltage change from 1.3 to 1.2 > reboot, nothing else? I may give this a go just for the heck of it. I am using the 360mm AIO that is well rated, so cooling shouldn't be an issue.

Yep.

I had bad luck with my 280 mm AIO, though. It didn't want to cool my X3D whatever I did with it. I'm happy with the Dark Rock 4 now. But as long as your AIO works...

 

[tabascosauz]

As to why other people undervolt a 7800X3D that has a max VCore of around 1.0 V, I have no idea. It consumes 80-90 W under full load, and with any decent tower cooler, it's so far away from any kind of limit that you don't get higher clocks anyway. The only advantage I can think of is reduced thermals for instances when your cooling isn't good enough.

Because CO doesn't directly change Vcore. It can, on CPUs with weird boost like X3D, but it just changes the V-F curve. There's a couple hundred MHz potentially at stake between -35 and 0.

 

[AusWolf]

Because CO doesn't directly change Vcore. It can, on CPUs with weird boost like X3D, but it just changes the V-F curve. There's a couple hundred MHz potentially at stake between -35 and 0.

Then why do I get the same 5050 MHz single-core and 4800 MHz all-core at default as other people with CO at various settings?

 

[tabascosauz]

Then why do I get the same 5050 MHz single-core and 4800 MHz all-core at default as other people with CO at various settings?

What does that have to do with anything? Count yourself really lucky, I guess? Samples are never directly comparable with one another, and boards always play a big role in variation.

Can't tell anything else without seeing your settings and your scores on CO and no CO.

 

[Space Lynx]

Then why do I get the same 5050 MHz single-core and 4800 MHz all-core at default as other people with CO at various settings?

do a R23 multi run with what you have now -

and then I will compare it to mind with -30

I'm just curious if you don't want to its cool, I guess I can just do it on my end

 

[AusWolf]

do a R23 multi run with what you have now -

and then I will compare it to mind with -30

I'm just curious if you don't want to its cool, I guess I can just do it on my end

I get between 17,900 and 18,100 depending on background programs, star alignment, etc.

 

[freeagent]

Using the curve will allow you to push peak clocks for longer, R23 is ok, but not the best metric here.

 

[AusWolf]

Using the curve will allow you to push peak clocks for longer, R23 is ok, but not the best metric here.

I get 4.8 GHz indefinitely. How much longer could I ever push it?

 

[freeagent]

I get 4.8 GHz indefinitely. How much longer could I ever push it?

There is still 250MHz left.. boost is capped to 5050MHz like a 5800X right?

 

[tabascosauz]

There is still 250MHz left.. boost is capped to 5050MHz like a 5800X right?

I think glnn's 7800X3D was the highest I've seen so far, which was something like 19.5k at just over 5.0GHz effective all core. How exactly he got there I'm not sure but the score does correspond to the clock. Judging from the temps that might be direct die on a golden sample with close to -50 of CO, I can't remember.

I'm at 18.7k @ ~4.85GHz, it seems like most people top out at 4.9 or so all-core. ST seems like 1800-1850 is run of the mill for most people as they cap out at 5050, almost splitting the difference here at 1822.

 

[AusWolf]

There is still 250MHz left.. boost is capped to 5050MHz like a 5800X right?

Ah, so that's actually achievable in all-core load? I thought it was capped at 5.05 single-core, 4.8 all-core, and whatever goes in between.

 

[Space Lynx]

AsRock has an auto overclock feature that turns on PBO, 85 temp limit, and -30 CO

I turned that on and it was fully stable in every test, but I only scored 17,300 in r23 multi.

Guru3D review of 7800x3d has stock r23 multi getting a little over 18k. So, I don't know, it's not a big deal. I did see 4750 the entire time in r23, and boosts to 5050 sometimes in other tests. Temps are what shocked me the most, I never broke 75 celsius in any time, not even prime95. I did get to 77 celsius a few tines in r23 multi... I really like this AIO (I am also using the contact frame, picture below), kind of glad I didn't sell it now. The rig looks amazing in person.

If I just leave my 7800x3d at stock like you @AusWolf I only get 4.2-4.4 all core boosting in r23 multi.

@freeagent It did pass OCCT as well as Prime95 for 20 minutes each (which is enough for me to feel confident anyway).

Score isn't what I wanted, but I think I will just leave the Auto OC on with Expo, it was fully stable and ran cool, so meh.

@GerKNG since you have same board basically, do you have any recommendations for me to get over 18k in r23 score? what OC do you use?