should global c-state be "enabled" instead of auto on am5 x3d processors?

[squallypo]

hello there, i recently came across this thread over reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/1igmb6f/am5_cpu_stutter_fix/?share_id=cLCtMOD36Doud0T...
in which this guy affirms that having global c-state on "auto" on the motherboard for am5 processors its pretty much having it as "off or disabled"
where you should instead be setting it as "enabled" for it to reduce or eliminate any performance issues that your computer may be having with micro stuttering related.

is this accurate? what does global c-state even do anyways?

im on ryzen 7800x3d, x670e aorus pro motherboard, and at the moment its set on auto but if what he says its true, then i should set it to enable ?
ive noticed a few micro stuttering in dead by daylight, cyberpunk 2077.

thanks for your time.

 

[R-T-B]

c-states are a power saving option. Honestly, disabling them should not be causing stutter.

 

[squallypo]

c-states are a power saving option. Honestly, disabling them should not be causing stutter.

yeah i wish i knew more of the topic but i really dont, i just found interesting how this could be causing a micro stuttering issue.
so setting it on, makes the general pc performance lower?

Update on Ryzen 7000 C-State Boost Limiter - SkatterBencher

AGESA 1003 re-introduces Precision Boost C-State Boost Limiter which prevents boosting to over 5.5 GHz when more than 4 cores are active

skatterbencher.com

i also found this article, speaks a bit of c-states and how it should be "enabled" as well.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Auto = Enabled. Should be no change between them.

Disabled will run the cores at their rated speeds without throttling when in lower power states.

 

[squallypo]

Auto = Enabled. Should be no change between them.

Disabled will run the cores at their rated speeds without throttling when in lower power states.

is there a reason why he claims that auto = disabled ?

 

[R-T-B]

so setting it on, makes the general pc performance lower?

Not really, no. Disabling it just make it use more power at idle for no reason twiddling its thunbs. But it shouldn't hurt anything either.

is there a reason why he claims that auto = disabled ?

I'm skeptical of that as well, unless its like a one board or brand firmware glitch.

Disabled will run the cores at their rated speeds without throttling when in lower power states.

Actually clock control is a seperate thing. This is more of a "can I sleep/turn off a core short-term when I have literally nothing to do?" setting.

 

[squallypo]

Not really, no. Disabling it just make it use more power at idle for no reason twiddling its thunbs. But it shouldn't hurt anything either.


I'm skeptical of that as well, unless its like a one board or brand firmware glitch.


Actually clock control is a seperate thing. This is more of a "can I sleep/turn off a core short-term when I have literally nothing to do?" setting.

so to summarize:
auto should be fine just as enable should be fine, since auto should be = "enabled" pretty much
yeah i dont understand this person logic with auto = disabled really, he prolly has a glitchy firmware/bios from his motherboard but apparently other persons have been trying this and has worked out for them, i honestly cant say from personal experience as ive had it default which is auto, i did wanted to test this out because i wanted to know if this would help with the micro stuttering in dead by daylight, cyberpunk 2077.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Not really, no. Disabling it just make it use more power at idle for no reason twiddling its thunbs. But it shouldn't hurt anything either.


I'm skeptical of that as well, unless its like a one board or brand firmware glitch.


Actually clock control is a seperate thing. This is more of a "can I sleep/turn off a core short-term when I have literally nothing to do?" setting.

If you disable C-states, this directly prevents AMDs power states from being active. It should run the cpu at its max clocks. Same for Intel, but yes, is used for lower p-states and sleep.

The very first thing to disable for all core overclock/tuning, is disable c-states.

To find your AMD power states, open cpu-z and clock about tab. Lower left click save report txt. Open txt. Scroll find the power states listed. Thats what C-states enables which on auto at default is simply enabled. This is a green feature to save power pushed by EPA. Same thing with your reference clock throttling. Another power saving feature. Used to be called cpu spread spectrum. On my Asus board lga 1700, there is an option to secure 100 reference clocks. (system at defaults for this)

But my point is Auto and enabled is the same. Disabled is the only change.

is there a reason why he claims that auto = disabled ?

It's reddit. Who knows why.... but probably because.

He doesn't know.

 

[freeagent]

With Asus auto is disabled.

 

[squallypo]

If you disable C-states, this directly prevents AMDs power states from being active. It should run the cpu at its max clocks. Same for Intel, but yes, is used for lower p-states and sleep.

The very first thing to disable for all core overclock/tuning, is disable c-states.

To find your AMD power states, open cpu-z and clock about tab. Lower left click save report txt. Open txt. Scroll find the power states listed. Thats what C-states enables which on auto at default is simply enabled. This is a green feature to save power pushed by EPA. Same thing with your reference clock throttling. Another power saving feature. Used to be called cpu spread spectrum. On my Asus board lga 1700, there is an option to secure 100 reference clocks.

But my point is Auto and enabled is the same. Disabled is the only change.


It's reddit. Who knows why.... but probably because.

He doesn't know.

Does this matter if someone is doing curve optimizer with negative offset ? Or completely unrelated to the global c-states
edit:

is this what you mean ? took it from cpu z report text file.

 

[R-T-B]

If you disable C-states, this directly prevents AMDs power states from being active. It should run the cpu at its max clocks.

C-states are sleep levels and has nothing to do with the clocks themselves. The cpu will just never sleep.

Don't take my word for it, try it.

It's reddit. Who knows why.... but probably because.

To be fair that's not a reddit exclusive. But it sounds more like an ASUS eccentricity.

 

[freeagent]

Run the CPU at stock, maybe play with PBO a bit.. but no need for deep dives into the bios.

 

[squallypo]

Run the CPU at stock, maybe play with PBO a bit.. but no need for deep dives into the bios.

Yeah the only thing I've touched from the start was the curve optimizer to negative 25 and that's all there is to it, no overclocking or anything like that, also my rams are on xmp not expo don't really know if that even matters at all.

Does this matter if someone is doing curve optimizer with negative offset ? Or completely unrelated to the global c-states
edit:

View attachment 383789
is this what you mean ? took it from cpu z report text file.

this is with global c-state enabled ^

and this is with "disabled"

whats the difference? because i cant see it.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

C-states are sleep levels and has nothing to do with the clocks themselves. The cpu will just never sleep.

Don't take my word for it, try it.


To be fair that's not a reddit exclusive. But it sounds more like an ASUS eccentricity.

OK, I have it disabled right now, will give a screen shot yes??

And then, I will return when you have replied you got this screeny, I'll restart the system and enabled C-states and watch my overclock get neutered, if it even posts up.

PS, don't worry about core count being decreased, I was doing that for legacy benchmarking 3D thanks.

 

[R-T-B]

watch my overclock get neutered

Well yeah because it'll make a ton of unneccesary heat. It will still attempt your same overclock though, right?

I mean the bottom line anyways is the same, they are a good thing.

EDIT: Wait you are on intel? Lol you are right then because they do things differently than AMD. Fun right?

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Well yeah because it'll make a ton of unneccesary heat. It will still attempt your same overclock though, right?

I mean the bottom line anyways is the same, they are a good thing.

EDIT: Wait you are on intel? Lol you are right then because they do things differently than AMD. Fun right?

I have a Ryzen 1400, should I fire this up too?? It does the same thing on both platforms.

BTW, you didn't catch that when adjusting a cpu multiplier manually, it generally disables c-states as well. Something worth to mention I suppse.

I can provide links, but this is Google AI's search in response to "Are C-states mandatory on a processor?"

I have under-lined backing my statement without going upstairs and firing up more rigs to prove something I already know to myself.

No, C-states on processors are not mandatory; while most modern CPUs have C-states enabled by default, you can usually access BIOS settings to disable them if needed, although doing so would negate the power-saving benefits they provide when a processor is idle.

Key points about C-states:

• Function:
  C-states allow a processor to enter lower power states when idle, reducing power consumption by turning off parts of the CPU that aren't being used.
  
  
• Control:
  The operating system usually controls when a processor enters a C-state, but some BIOS settings may allow for more granular control.
  
  
• Impact of disabling:
  Disabling C-states means the CPU will always run at full power, even when idle, potentially leading to higher power usage.

I mean the bottom line anyways is the same, they are a good thing.

Good to save power, not good to gain performance. Are we gonna back and forth that too??

 

[R-T-B]

It does the same thing on both platforms.

I guess so? I have to admit being a manual overclocker, I probably have no idea there. Fair enough, I had toggled them in the past out of curiousity but I guess that was a bad experiment. Thanks.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

I guess so? I have to admit being a manual overclocker, I probably have no idea there. Fair enough, I had toggled them in the past out of curiousity but I guess that was a bad experiment. Thanks.

Well Intel doesn't use the wording P-States. They do the frequency and power control a bit differently, but it's also stepped, some of which is just simply advertised already. Boost clocks, Base clocks for example. These are also power states.

So Clear your cmos. Go to post #8 and pull your P-States. Post them up. When C-states are enabled, those are the power states that go active during low and idle loads.

Some bios settings might turn off C-States. Something to look for. The Reddit guy just doesn't know. It's all good. He can come here and learn something maybe

Does this matter if someone is doing curve optimizer with negative offset ? Or completely unrelated to the global c-states
edit:

View attachment 383789
is this what you mean ? took it from cpu z report text file.

System should be at complete defaults for this. I'm not sure if it'll change, but that's the recommended way to pull the TXT according to myth.

Do note all the other useful information in that TXT file.

 

[squallypo]

Well Intel doesn't use the wording P-States. They do the frequency and power control a bit differently, but it's also stepped, some of which is just simply advertised already. Boost clocks, Base clocks for example. These are also power states.

So Clear your cmos. Go to post #8 and pull your P-States. Post them up. When C-states are enabled, those are the power states that go active during low and idle loads.

Some bios settings might turn off C-States. Something to look for. The Reddit guy just doesn't know. It's all good. He can come here and learn something maybe


System should be at complete defaults for this. I'm not sure if it'll change, but that's the recommended way to pull the TXT according to myth.

Do note all the other useful information in that TXT file.

one thing i noticed on hwinfo 64 while doing enable or disable: when disabled the core clocks on the cpu are all on 4.7ghz all the time, but when enabled, the core clocks tends to get lower ghz rather than always being on high ghz.

 

[Zach_01]

hello there, i recently came across this thread over reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/1igmb6f/am5_cpu_stutter_fix/?share_id=cLCtMOD36Doud0T...
in which this guy affirms that having global c-state on "auto" on the motherboard for am5 processors its pretty much having it as "off or disabled"
where you should instead be setting it as "enabled" for it to reduce or eliminate any performance issues that your computer may be having with micro stuttering related.

is this accurate? what does global c-state even do anyways?

im on ryzen 7800x3d, x670e aorus pro motherboard, and at the moment its set on auto but if what he says its true, then i should set it to enable ?
ive noticed a few micro stuttering in dead by daylight, cyberpunk 2077.

thanks for your time.

Global C-States and Cool&Quiet Function are both functions on how the CPU idles or handles the near idling loads, because depending on background tasks today there is no true idling. Disconnecting from internet would have the system a few steps closer to idling but still no.

C&Q doesn't have an Auto option so its straight forward. (Enabled/Disabled)
Global C-States
Auto/Enabled = Enabled
Its different from PBO that on Auto is by default disabled.

Easy to test C-States if you know where to look... in HWiNFO64 of course

Here it is Disabled

Here Enabled

C0: Active state
C1: Sleep state
C6: Deep sleep /Power down state

These percentages most likely will be different from system to system depending on, CPU model, platform, Win configuration, power plan, installed apps and background tasks.
On the far left and far right columns which are the current and average values respectively, adding the % is = 100%

Other differences between having C-States on/off (when system is "idle") maybe noticed on lower/average core clocks, CPU voltage and power consumption. At least on my system the differences are small. A couple of hundreds MHz and a couple of watt.
What made those differences a lot bigger was disabling C&Q function in addition to C-States.
CPU was never below the rated base speed (3.6GHz), never below 1.35V and 55W, and avg clocks had increased about 600MHz (From 3.4 to 4.0GHz)

Usually on my system CPU cores fall to 3.3GHz before they enter the deep state, voltage is down to ~0.9V and avg clocks are around 3.4GHz. Power around 40~42W (lower ~35W)

What causing the system to stutter in games shouldn't be related to C-States and if it helps making this issue unnoticeable or even go away completely by disabling them is just a mask on it.
It just helps to have the CPU on the edge ready to boost. It doesn't fix it.

The system should not stutter even with every power saving enabled including windows (lowest)power efficiency plan.
All those power saving functions may just lower performance by a few %, but should not causing issues.

I play CP2077 with all the above enabled (even low power plan) and it runs it flawlessly.

 

[squallypo]

Global C-States and Cool&Quiet Function are both functions on how the CPU idles or handles the near idling loads, because depending on background tasks today there is no true idling. Disconnecting from internet would have the system a few steps closer to idling but still no.

C&Q doesn't have an Auto option so its straight forward. (Enabled/Disabled)
Global C-States
Auto/Enabled = Enabled
Its different from PBO that on Auto is by default disabled.

Easy to test C-States if you know where to look... in HWiNFO64 of course

Here it is Disabled
View attachment 383795

Here Enabled
View attachment 383796

C0: Active state
C1: Sleep state
C6: Deep sleep /Power down state

These percentages most likely will be different from system to system depending on, CPU model, platform, Win configuration, power plan, installed apps and background tasks.
On the far left and far right columns which are the current and average values respectively, adding the % is = 100%

Other differences between having C-States on/off (when system is "idle") maybe noticed on lower/average core clocks, CPU voltage and power consumption. At least on my system the differences are small. A couple of hundreds MHz and a couple of watt.
What made those differences a lot bigger was disabling C&Q function in addition to C-States.
CPU was never below the rated base speed (3.6GHz), never below 1.35V and 55W, and avg clocks had increased about 600MHz (From 3.4 to 4.0GHz)

Usually on my system CPU cores fall to 3.3GHz before they enter the deep state, voltage is down to ~0.9V and avg clocks are around 3.4GHz. Power around 40~42W (lower ~35W)

What causing the system to stutter in games shouldn't be related to C-States and if it helps making this issue unnoticeable or even go away completely by disabling them is just a mask on it.
It just helps to have the CPU on the edge ready to boost. It doesn't fix it.

The system should not stutter even with every power saving enabled including windows (lowest)power efficiency plan.
All those power saving functions may just lower performance by a few %, but should not causing issues.

I play CP2077 with all the above enabled (even low power plan) and it runs it flawlessly.

thank you for this input, yeah i have no idea whats causing these *stuttering* moments in dead by daylight and cp2077 in my case tbh, in dbd its rather random theres no specific moment but it happens always, and cp2077 it really just acts on its own, not sure if its due to loading stuff on the go while driving around or what else.
both games are installed on nvme m.2 drive.

 

[Zach_01]

...also my rams are on xmp not expo don't really know if that even matters at all.

Do you mean that RAM is on the default JEDEC profile?
If yes, have you ever tried to enable EXPO?

Maybe try to disable some background tasks if possible, that you dont necessarily need 100%.
Some times wireless mouse/keyboard can cause such issues.

 

[squallypo]

Do you mean that RAM is on the default JEDEC profile?
If yes, have you ever tried to enable EXPO?

Maybe try to disable some background tasks if possible, that you dont necessarily need 100%.
Some times wireless mouse/keyboard can cause such issues.

ill try enable expo, im not sure if i had to switch it to xmp at one point because expo was being unstable cant say anymore its been a while.
i only use wired stuff (keyboard/mouse) and my controlers are only on when i need them, also using a bluetooth dongle for them not the one that is integrated in the motherboard which btw i might wanna disable on bios now that i think about it.

edit:
alright expo1 selected this time and set global c-state back to auto since it should be the same as enabled anyways.
is low latency mode option something that i should enable for the rams btw? ive never touched that so im wondering now.

 

[way2]

is there a reason why he claims that auto = disabled ?

fwiw, on my Asus motherboard, there are a couple settings where "Auto" means disabled. I think ASPM might be one of them. It literally tells you in the description "Auto = disable". I have no clue why the mobo UEFI designers decided to implement the setting like that. Not sure if other boards have similar behavior.

 

[Zach_01]

fwiw, on my Asus motherboard, there are a couple settings where "Auto" means disabled. I think ASPM might be one of them. It literally tells you in the description "Auto = disable". I have no clue why the mobo UEFI designers decided to implement the setting like that. Not sure if other boards have similar behavior.

Also for AMD PBO at Auto = Disabled