Slightly OT: Why do all the YouTube stars use water cooling?

[trparky]

Even if I was like him and I had a ton of parts to play with it I wouldn't put that AIO on that chip. I would be saving it for a far more worthy build. It's like... you don't soup up a cheap Toyota; one just doesn't do that unless of course they're trying to shall we say, compensate for something.

 

[EntropyZ]

I've gotten an AIO and have been using it for almost a year, it is said going that route over air coolers is a gateway drug to custom waterloops. Personally I'm not ready to make the jump (and probably will never be), as it is costly, though not as much as it used to be, especially when there are kits from EK waterblocks that are decent in price. Also, I wouldn't like doing the process of draining the loop every once in a while and buying new coolant every time, and another thing is trusting that loop not to leak overtime. An AIO unit seems like a good balance.

I wouldn't buy one if I wasn't overclocking, an air cooler is more than enough to deal with your average Intel or AMD chip.

I don't regret getting the Deepcool Captain EX 240 (they're probably cheaper in the US, but most places sell them really cheap, and they're good price-to-performance), it is great, the temps have been never better and I don't have to deal with stupid mounting schemes just to get the beastly aluminum block that hangs off the socket to hold. I've tried mounting a Be Quiet! air cooler. Never again. It's worse when mounting in a smaller case, like the ones from Fractal Design, NZXT S340 or most other uATX cases. I have small pair of hands, and even I was having trouble. It's better to build outside the case, but still.

The stock fans might be on the louder side, but they are better than anything Cooler Master has right now, their fans are hot garbage even if they have RGB lighting. If noise is an issue you can get a pair of EK Vardars or something equivalent and you're good. For me, it is not worth the extra investment. The extra price could have gotten me a 240mm NZXT Kraken or an FD S36 Celsius AIO. And even then, that is overkill for a Ryzen 5 chip.

Rarely there is a an air cooler that doesn't ruin the build's color coordination. Though nobody has to worry about that if they don't have a case with a window. Or just plain don't care.

Recently I have seen the Arctic Cooling eSports unit, and that's the only air cooler I would get. Seriously, everything else (apart from AMD Ryzen stock, Be Quiet!, Cryorig and some of the CM units) looks downright ugly to me. Something ruined air coolers for me. Maybe because I'm so focused on the looks rather than pure functionality or I just got spoiled after I upgraded everything and never want to go back to something that in my opinion seems worse in any respect. And I'm okay with that from CPU cooler standpoint. Not so much when it comes to cases with poor airflow brought on by blocking it with bad front panels either without proper spacing or no perforations. No CPU cooler will be able to fight that.

 

[CrAsHnBuRnXp]

I just got done watching a video that JaysTwoCents did and he's putting a system together with an Intel Pentium G4560 and what did he put in it? An AIO. I mean... really dude? What a freakin' waste.

And then he disassembles it and reuses it for another build.

AIO and custom WC just makes things look better in a windowed case and AIO can be on par or cool better than air.

 

[cucker tarlson]

If I had money for a custom WC loop, I'd prefer building a slienced cryochamber for my PC

 

[Aquinus]

I just got done watching a video that JaysTwoCents did and he's putting a system together with an Intel Pentium G4560 and what did he put in it? An AIO. I mean... really dude? What a freakin' waste.

Honestly, I only did air cooling until about 4-5 months ago. I had the same impression of, why would I use water or an AIO if I didn't have a need for that kind of cooling. So, the first machine to get an AIO was the 3820 crunching in the attic. I needed a cooler because the (at the time,) air cooler I was using for the 3820 was getting put on to the 3930k. The Corsair H60 ended up cooling the 3820 as well, if not better, while being more quiet in the process. So quiet that I was actually blown away with how much more quiet it was given the temperatures. So, I put that machine in the attic and it has been crunching nonstop. Several months later, I got a Corsair H100i v2 for the 3930k because the air cooler was barely able to maintain 70-75*C at 4.2Ghz and the fans screamed like a banshee when it was put under load for extended periods of time. The AIO completely changed that dynamic. At the same clocks and voltages, temperatures dropped by 15*C and it was a lot more quiet. Now I'm running 4.5Ghz with more voltage, and barely breaking 65-70*C in the process. It's still loud but, not nearly as loud as it was before with the air cooler.

All in all for me, it's had enough of an impact where I would get another AIO if I were to build another machine, even if it were a lesser machine like an APU. Obviously I wouldn't get something like a H100i v2 for something like that but, I would get an H60 for something like that in a heartbeat. Do I need it, no. Can it make a difference (for reasons including and beyond cooling capacity), absolutely. That's just my take but, so far I've been more than happy with two different AIOs on two skt2011 machines and for something like a 3930k which is known to consume a ton of power, a properly sized AIO can make a huge difference.

 

[cucker tarlson]

You're comparing that Corsair H100i v2 against what air cooler ?

 

[phanbuey]

This thread makes me want to watetcool

 

[Aquinus]

You're comparing that Corsair H100i v2 against what air cooler ?

ZALMAN CNPS9900MAX-B with two, 160 and 100CFM respectively, case fans immediately behind it. I didn't reuse those fans either, I got some 120MLs instead to use on the H100i.

 

[natr0n]

Those "stars" are trying to maintain an image. Everything they do is for show and clicks.

 

[cucker tarlson]

ZALMAN CNPS9900MAX-B with two, 160 and 100CFM respectively, case fans immediately behind it. I didn't reuse those fans either, I got some 120MLs instead to use on the H100i.

That cooler is nowhere near high-end air cooling like Noctua D15 or Dark Rock Pro. No wonder a 240mm clc is 15 degrees cooler. That zalman is actually a few degrees warmer even than 212 evo and it's awfully noisy at the same time.

 

[Aquinus]

That cooler is nowhere near high-end air cooling like Noctua D15 or Dark Rock Pro. No wonder a 240mm clc is 15 degrees cooler.

Those coolers are also massive in size. I got the Zalman because it's slim but tall and doesn't cover any of the DRAM slots, because when you have an ATX board with 8 DIMM slots, it gets incredibly crowded and I bet that neither of those coolers would fit in my case with the DRAM I currently have. So, space is kind of a thing when you're sizing a cooler. Also, the Zalman should be good for up to 300-watts of thermal energy which is usually enough for most CPUs (it was for the 3820,) but, not the 3930k when you're pushing it. High-end, maybe not, but it's quite decent for the size.

Either way, neither of those options are good if they don't fit with your hardware which was the issue I started having when I had a Thermaltake Frio on the Phenom II 940 I had before the 3820 which is smaller than those two options but yet, still made it hard to work with just 4 DRAM slots, forget 8 with taller DRAM modules.

 

[cucker tarlson]

Air coolers have evolved a lot. Now they're good with tall ram, and cases are now designed with tall air coolers in mind as well.

 

[thebluebumblebee]

Because no one can make a living "reviewing" $20 coolers.
Jay said in at least one of his videos that his job, what he's paid for, is to present these different pieces of hardware. He's a sales person.

I just got done watching a video that JaysTwoCents did and he's putting a system together with an Intel Pentium G4560 and what did he put in it? An AIO. I mean... really dude? What a freakin' waste.

Latter in the video he commentted about the mix up of processors and that he swapped in an (IIRC) i5-7600K.

 

[Aquinus]

Air coolers have evolved a lot. Now they're good with tall ram, and cases are now designed with tall air coolers in mind as well.

Except reviews for both still cite DRAM clearance as still being an issue, at least enough to be a con, even for the Dark Rock Pro 4. With a AIO or the Zalman, there is never such an issue. Have they gotten better, sure, but it's still an issue. That's besides the point though. I did consider the Noctua D14 when I was building the machine but, there is no way it could have fit with the DRAM and I suspect that's still true of the D15, even if you can shift the fan a little bit to gain a little bit of room (if the case has the room for the fan to sit higher.) Also, the Dark Rock is rated for 250w whereas the Zalman is rated for 300w, for whatever that's worth.

I just want to reiterate that I don't disagree there are likely better options but, they still have to be feasible. Neither the Zalman or the AIO have any issues with covering DRAM and for me, that's important because I don't have low-profile DIMMs.

 

[trparky]

I plan on building a Ryzen 2000-series system very soon with the 2600X. I've seen the benchmarks and some videos that state that the Wraith Spire while isn't the best cooler it's still more than adequate to cool the AMD chip (hey, it's free too!). If I find that the CPU isn't cool enough I will upgrade to a better cooler.

To be honest I'm just not keen on doing liquid cooling. The 240mm radiator equipped AIOs are quite expensive and not only that but you practically have to use full-size cases with them if you even hope to have at least one bay for a DVD-RW/BR drive. Most of the 120mm rads aren't good enough to cool today's "hot as the surface of Mercury" processors.

 

[Deleted member 67555]

I like the quiet of AIO cooling... barely audible hum with 2x140mm fans running between 300-800 rpm with another 3-120mm fans venting the case...

@trparky
I don't like big clunky cases either...
I went with the Fractal Design Meshify-C for that reason alone...
I wanted a case that could hold 140x280mm radiator without it being big.

 

[phanbuey]

That cooler is nowhere near high-end air cooling like Noctua D15 or Dark Rock Pro. No wonder a 240mm clc is 15 degrees cooler. That zalman is actually a few degrees warmer even than 212 evo and it's awfully noisy at the same time.

What many of the air guys are not mentioning is that the Air coolers require your internal case temps to be really low - if you have a 240mm or 280mm AIO as intake - it will always cool the same, unless your entire house heats up.

I notice you have a superjetstream 1080 oc'd - go ahead and game for 30 mins and then run a CPU stress test... Or better yet, run OCCT and Heaven at the same time - unless you can somehow turn your case into a wind tunnel / have separate chambers / or are using the top of your case as an intake, your temps are going to be worse than an AIO just because the air you're using is 5-10 degrees hotter.

 

[evernessince]

Honestly, I only did air cooling until about 4-5 months ago. I had the same impression of, why would I use water or an AIO if I didn't have a need for that kind of cooling. So, the first machine to get an AIO was the 3820 crunching in the attic. I needed a cooler because the (at the time,) air cooler I was using for the 3820 was getting put on to the 3930k. The Corsair H60 ended up cooling the 3820 as well, if not better, while being more quiet in the process. So quiet that I was actually blown away with how much more quiet it was given the temperatures. So, I put that machine in the attic and it has been crunching nonstop. Several months later, I got a Corsair H100i v2 for the 3930k because the air cooler was barely able to maintain 70-75*C at 4.2Ghz and the fans screamed like a banshee when it was put under load for extended periods of time. The AIO completely changed that dynamic. At the same clocks and voltages, temperatures dropped by 15*C and it was a lot more quiet. Now I'm running 4.5Ghz with more voltage, and barely breaking 65-70*C in the process. It's still loud but, not nearly as loud as it was before with the air cooler.

All in all for me, it's had enough of an impact where I would get another AIO if I were to build another machine, even if it were a lesser machine like an APU. Obviously I wouldn't get something like a H100i v2 for something like that but, I would get an H60 for something like that in a heartbeat. Do I need it, no. Can it make a difference (for reasons including and beyond cooling capacity), absolutely. That's just my take but, so far I've been more than happy with two different AIOs on two skt2011 machines and for something like a 3930k which is known to consume a ton of power, a properly sized AIO can make a huge difference.

This anecdote would have been allot better had the name of your aircooler been said and how long the fan's been used. For all we know you could have been using the stock cooler. The 3820 and 3930K are easy to cool because they are soldered. You could have achieved 70 - 75c with a $30 aircooler.

I plan on building a Ryzen 2000-series system very soon with the 2600X. I've seen the benchmarks and some videos that state that the Wraith Spire while isn't the best cooler it's still more than adequate to cool the AMD chip (hey, it's free too!). If I find that the CPU isn't cool enough I will upgrade to a better cooler.

To be honest I'm just not keen on doing liquid cooling. The 240mm radiator equipped AIOs are quite expensive and not only that but you practically have to use full-size cases with them if you even hope to have at least one bay for a DVD-RW/BR drive. Most of the 120mm rads aren't good enough to cool today's "hot as the surface of Mercury" processors.

The wraith spire is good for a decent overclock and it's very quiet.

Except reviews for both still cite DRAM clearance as still being an issue, at least enough to be a con, even for the Dark Rock Pro 4. With a AIO or the Zalman, there is never such an issue. Have they gotten better, sure, but it's still an issue. That's besides the point though. I did consider the Noctua D14 when I was building the machine but, there is no way it could have fit with the DRAM and I suspect that's still true of the D15, even if you can shift the fan a little bit to gain a little bit of room (if the case has the room for the fan to sit higher.) Also, the Dark Rock is rated for 250w whereas the Zalman is rated for 300w, for whatever that's worth.

I just want to reiterate that I don't disagree there are likely better options but, they still have to be feasible. Neither the Zalman or the AIO have any issues with covering DRAM and for me, that's important because I don't have low-profile DIMMs.

You are just moving from a RAM clearance issue to a rad clearance issue with an AIO. Not all cases support large rads or have enough space between the mobo and the top fan slots. In the end you either have to consider your RAM height or your case.

 

[FreedomEclipse]

Even if I was like him and I had a ton of parts to play with it I wouldn't put that AIO on that chip. I would be saving it for a far more worthy build. It's like... you don't soup up a cheap Toyota; one just doesn't do that unless of course they're trying to shall we say, compensate for something.

So? Who are you to tell them what to do with their hardware that they are either given or purchased?

Honestly, if youre that triggered by tech youtubers using hardware/accessories they get given or want to use, no matter how unorthodox or overkill for intents and purposes it may be then I suggest either blocking/unsubscribing from said youtubers and not watching their content.

AIOs are made to cool CPUs/GPUs and it is doing exactly what its made for albeit overkill.

Some times its to show off, some times its because they are sponsored, some times it just makes life easier on a testbench because mounting and unmounting a massive heatsink repeatedly gets rather bothersome.

If your personal preference is conventional cooling then more power to you.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I'm gonna chime in for a second. Youtubers, and everyone else who liquid cools, does so because of the performance. If liquid cooling didn't have an advantage over air cooling there would be zero justification for the extra cost. Liquid cooling does have advantages and big ones. Noise, overall temp levels and OCing. The noise made by a quality pump and quality rad fans is minimal, the overall nominal temps in a case drop dramatically and the headroom for potential OCing is far higher than it would be on air cooling.

These are the reasons why liquid cooling is preferred by many, not just Youtubers. @trparky, you seem to be complaining about something that is really very easy to figure out. Sure there's money involved, but if liquid cooling didn't work as well as it does the world, not just the Youtubers, would drop it like a hot potato.

(FYI, I use the term " Liquid Cooling " because there are other liquids that can be used as a cooling fluid besides water)

 

[Easy Rhino]

YouTube stars? I must be getting old...

 

[jboydgolfer]

YouTube stars? I must be getting old...

Just another way of saying "big fish in a small pond", and if you don't pay attention to that small pond ,even the biggest fish is no bigger than a second thought

 

[John Naylor]

There's a lotta youtube stars .... almost all nondeserving. As for AIOs having "better temps", it's a myth ... I have yet to see that. At leat no AIO I have seen performs better and matches the noise level of a comparably priced air cooler. The H100i for example is **12 times louder** than the Noctua ... See 17:12 mark **

And now we have several coolers < $50 that perform the same or better than those $90 air coolers above (Scythe Mugen Max @ $37 and Fuma @ $45 for example)

One reason you see what you see is sponsorships ... the "why anyone would sponsor athois guy" (Jayz) who drills holes thru his motherboard is beyond me. He'd be a great addition as the tech guy on Fox. CLCs might as well be called "Faux Water Cooling". The idea of a aluminum rad and copper block is something that should never have been adopted. You can clean an air cooler with compressed air ... but with corrosion inhibitors having a useful life of 18-24 months you can not clean this .... https://martinsliquidlab.wordpress.com/2012/01/24/corrosion-explored/

If ya want a "gateway" into custom water cooling, then by all means buy an AIO that is **NOT a CLC** such as those from Swiftech or EK ... when ready to move to a custom loop, you just add a GPU Block, MoBo Block, reservoir. extra rads or whatever ya want without needing to replace anything. Also, one of the most common mistakes AIO users make is installing their fans backwards based upon the faulty logic that blowing the air up out of the case is a good thing. Yeah we all learned in 8th grade earth science that hot air rises but that's not the issue here.

What happen in your typical 5 fan mid tower case is the user winds up with two front fans blowing in with their air flow restricted (by up to 30%) by intakle air filers. With the two or three fans on top blowing out, and the rear blowing out, you have a very significant negative pressure situation which many dismiss as a dust problem of little significance. That's not the big worry... When installed correctly, in accordance with Corsair's AIO instructions, the rad fans blow in using cool exterior case air to cool the coolant. The faulty thinking is "ooh that's a bad thing cause you are pushing hot air inside the case". And you are... where with 4-5 fans blowing in, the positive air pressure immediately expels thru the rear fan and rear case grilles. You don't ned to match intake an exchause fans. we don't do that when ventilating buildings, cars, power plants, kitchens. etc cause it's not necessary.

When AIO rad fans are blowing air out, you are expelling the 90 - 130 watts of heat generated by your Intel CPU out the top... and as a result of 3-4 fans blowing air out and two significantly flow retsricted front intake fans blowing in, the significant negative pressure is sucking lots of air in from outside the case thru those rear case grilles ... yeah, the ones right above your 250 watt GFX card and 650 watt PSU. So what' the point of expelling the heat from the 90-135 watt CPU if you are sucking all that 250 watt GPU / 650 watt PSU hot exhaust right back in thru rear of case ? And yes, you can easily "do this at home" with a $34 Chauvet Fog Machine.

We only build air, custom loops, OLC type AIOs (Swiftech / EK) with all copper (or all aluminum for the budget conscious) componentry. With Intel, I haven't hit the thermal limit with a single build since Haswell ... As long as the purpose of your build is not to run synthetic stress test programs, have been able to consistently hit desired OC without hitting the temerture wall; if anythig it's a voltage wall that holds things back. Under stress test @ 4.7 - 5.0 Ghz, RoG Real Bench doesn't hit 80 and we are near 1.5 volts (w/ AVX) when we get that high. CPU temps are in 70s ...and drop to high 50s / low 60s worse case when doing anything else. GPU temps, eve in SLI range from 39 @ 1200 rpm fan speeds to 44 with < 850 rpm fan speeds under stress test ...450 - 650 fan rpm in gaming.

For me water cooling is all about quiet ... not being able to hear the fans or even tell whether the system is on or off when ya close ya eyes. With Corsair 100i for example, I'd need 30 foot KB, mouse and monitor cables cause the box would have to be in another room .... see 1:15 mark in video below

https://martinsliquidlab.wordpress.com/2013/03/12/swiftech-h220-vs-corsair-h100i-noise-testing/

 

[jboydgolfer]

why does it say "MAX" under the Corsair cooler in that video?

i only put full stock in what i personally experience, and i have an h110iGTX, and it is near silent at 5Ghz, ive had many air coolers in my time, and never had one this quiet. not to say air coolers arent as capable, but they arent as quiet in my exp. just for kicks, i was just running P95 (Max heat) at 4.3Ghz and my temps never broke 50-55c, and the loudest thing, was my case fans lowest speed (which is the same noise level it makes idle or 100% loaded). So unless an air cooler can have the same noise level at idle ,as it does at 100% load im sticking with my opinion of H2o being quieter. Maybe the people uploading these videos arent that experienced? i dont know. All I can say is that noone is paying me to say one is better than the other ,and I have no allegiance to any company. I simply choose what has worked for me the best ,or what does perform the best.

atleast thats my exp.

 

[tvamos]

I have tried few 120mm AIOs, and for me the biggest issue is pump noise. I moved back to air cooler, and it's top down blower with 140mm fan. Yes it blocks of ram and is hard to install, but for me it looks so much better, and my ears love it too. And it's not so often I have to take it off, anyway.