• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Spoiler Alert: New Security Vulnerability Found Affecting Intel CPUs

Joined
Mar 23, 2005
Messages
3,389 (0.63/day)
Location
Ancient Greece, Acropolis (Time Lord)
System Name RiseEN Gaming PC
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 1700X @ stock
Motherboard ASRock Fatal1ty X370 GAMING X AM4
Cooling Corsair H115i PRO RGB, 280mm Radiator, Dual 140mm ML Series PWM Fans
Memory G.Skill TridentZ 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4 3200
Video Card(s) Sapphire Radeon RX 580 8GB Nitro+ SE
Storage Corsair Force MP500 480GB M.2 (OS) + Force MP510 480GB M.2 (Steam/Games)
Display(s) Asus 27" (MG278Q) 144Hz WQHD 1440p + 1 x Asus 24" (VG245H) FHD 75Hz 1080p
Case Corsair Obsidian Series 450D Gaming Case
Audio Device(s) SteelSeries 5Hv2 w/ ASUS Xonar DGX PCI-E GX2.5 Audio Engine Sound Card
Power Supply Corsair TX750W Power Supply
Mouse Razer DeathAdder PC Gaming Mouse - Ergonomic Left Hand Edition
Keyboard Logitech G15 Classic Gaming Keyboard
Software Windows 10 Pro - 64-Bit Edition
Benchmark Scores I'm the Doctor.
With regards to New Architecture, that's why they hired Jim Keller. The lead engineer for ZEN.
I would guesstimate Intel will have something new in 2023-2025. Based on how long AMDs ZEN took.
 
Joined
Mar 10, 2015
Messages
2,248 (1.31/day)
System Name Wut?
Processor 3900X
Motherboard ASRock Taichi X570
Cooling Water
Memory 32GB GSkill CL16 3600mhz
Video Card(s) Vega 56
Storage 2 x AData XPG 8200 Pro 1TB
Display(s) 3440 x 1440
Case Thermaltake Tower 900
Power Supply Seasonic Prime Ultra Platinum
With regards to New Architecture, that's why they hired Jim Keller. The lead engineer for ZEN.
I would guesstimate Intel will have something new in 2023-2025. Based on how long AMDs ZEN took.
You can accelerate that some because of Intel's deep pockets.
 
Joined
Jul 5, 2013
Messages
7,489 (3.22/day)
I read somewhere on Reddit that in pursuing IPC performance in Benchmarks, Intel exposed themselves, in particular to this Spoiler Attack. Whether this is true is a different story.
That's the problem, who would do that deliberately? Intel is known for taking risks, but not foolish risks.
 
Joined
Mar 18, 2015
Messages
2,225 (1.30/day)
Location
Long Island
There's a risk of me leaving my house and walking across the road blindfolded. My problem with these 'vulnerabilities' is that they are written like we are talking "crossing the 10 lanes of "the 405" during rush hour. The reality is the risk is more like walking across my 10 foot wide driveway at 3 am to *water* my favorite tree... I'm 550 feet back from a road that has traffic counts that might hit 20 cars (both lanes combined) per hour at 5 pm. Biggest risk here is I'll step on a racoon .. they pretty balzy around here. You can walk right up to them at night, they won't move if their in feasting out of ya garbage can till ya get within 3 feet or so. was easier when I was managing ittle League and always had a 5 gallon spackle "bucke of balls" at the door.
 
Joined
Mar 10, 2015
Messages
2,248 (1.31/day)
System Name Wut?
Processor 3900X
Motherboard ASRock Taichi X570
Cooling Water
Memory 32GB GSkill CL16 3600mhz
Video Card(s) Vega 56
Storage 2 x AData XPG 8200 Pro 1TB
Display(s) 3440 x 1440
Case Thermaltake Tower 900
Power Supply Seasonic Prime Ultra Platinum
There's a risk of me leaving my house and walking across the road blindfolded. My problem with these 'vulnerabilities' is that they are written like we are talking "crossing the 10 lanes of "the 405" during rush hour. The reality is the risk is more like walking across my 10 foot wide driveway at 3 am to *water* my favorite tree... I'm 550 feet back from a road that has traffic counts that might hit 20 cars (both lanes combined) per hour at 5 pm. Biggest risk here is I'll step on a racoon .. they pretty balzy around here. You can walk right up to them at night, they won't move if their in feasting out of ya garbage can till ya get within 3 feet or so. was easier when I was managing ittle League and always had a 5 gallon spackle "bucke of balls" at the door.
Still trying to figure out how a bucket of balls would help with watering a tree...
 
Joined
Mar 23, 2005
Messages
3,389 (0.63/day)
Location
Ancient Greece, Acropolis (Time Lord)
System Name RiseEN Gaming PC
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 1700X @ stock
Motherboard ASRock Fatal1ty X370 GAMING X AM4
Cooling Corsair H115i PRO RGB, 280mm Radiator, Dual 140mm ML Series PWM Fans
Memory G.Skill TridentZ 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4 3200
Video Card(s) Sapphire Radeon RX 580 8GB Nitro+ SE
Storage Corsair Force MP500 480GB M.2 (OS) + Force MP510 480GB M.2 (Steam/Games)
Display(s) Asus 27" (MG278Q) 144Hz WQHD 1440p + 1 x Asus 24" (VG245H) FHD 75Hz 1080p
Case Corsair Obsidian Series 450D Gaming Case
Audio Device(s) SteelSeries 5Hv2 w/ ASUS Xonar DGX PCI-E GX2.5 Audio Engine Sound Card
Power Supply Corsair TX750W Power Supply
Mouse Razer DeathAdder PC Gaming Mouse - Ergonomic Left Hand Edition
Keyboard Logitech G15 Classic Gaming Keyboard
Software Windows 10 Pro - 64-Bit Edition
Benchmark Scores I'm the Doctor.
Still trying to figure out how a bucket of balls would help with watering a tree...
Think he means the bucket of balls is for the juicy big Raccoons.

That's the problem, who would do that deliberately? Intel is known for taking risks, but not foolish risks.
That's the million dollar question. Of course this is all speculation, but you never know if this was deliberate or they just didn't know about the vulnerability at the time the CPU was designed.
 
Joined
Mar 10, 2015
Messages
2,248 (1.31/day)
System Name Wut?
Processor 3900X
Motherboard ASRock Taichi X570
Cooling Water
Memory 32GB GSkill CL16 3600mhz
Video Card(s) Vega 56
Storage 2 x AData XPG 8200 Pro 1TB
Display(s) 3440 x 1440
Case Thermaltake Tower 900
Power Supply Seasonic Prime Ultra Platinum
Joined
Mar 23, 2005
Messages
3,389 (0.63/day)
Location
Ancient Greece, Acropolis (Time Lord)
System Name RiseEN Gaming PC
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 1700X @ stock
Motherboard ASRock Fatal1ty X370 GAMING X AM4
Cooling Corsair H115i PRO RGB, 280mm Radiator, Dual 140mm ML Series PWM Fans
Memory G.Skill TridentZ 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4 3200
Video Card(s) Sapphire Radeon RX 580 8GB Nitro+ SE
Storage Corsair Force MP500 480GB M.2 (OS) + Force MP510 480GB M.2 (Steam/Games)
Display(s) Asus 27" (MG278Q) 144Hz WQHD 1440p + 1 x Asus 24" (VG245H) FHD 75Hz 1080p
Case Corsair Obsidian Series 450D Gaming Case
Audio Device(s) SteelSeries 5Hv2 w/ ASUS Xonar DGX PCI-E GX2.5 Audio Engine Sound Card
Power Supply Corsair TX750W Power Supply
Mouse Razer DeathAdder PC Gaming Mouse - Ergonomic Left Hand Edition
Keyboard Logitech G15 Classic Gaming Keyboard
Software Windows 10 Pro - 64-Bit Edition
Benchmark Scores I'm the Doctor.
Joined
Mar 6, 2017
Messages
1,739 (1.76/day)
Location
North East Ohio, USA
System Name My Super Computer
Processor Intel Core i7 8700K
Motherboard Gigabyte Z370 AORUS Ultra Gaming
Cooling Corsair H55 AIO
Memory 2x8GB Crucial/Micron Ballistix Sport DDR4-2400
Video Card(s) ASUS GeForce GTX1060 6GB
Storage Samsung 970 EVO 500 GB NVMe SSD (System Drive), Samsung 860 EVO 500 GB SATA SSD (Game Drive)
Display(s) HP 2311x and Acer G206HQL
Case CoolerMaster MasterBox Lite 5 RGB
Audio Device(s) On-Board Sound
Power Supply EVGA Supernova 650 G3 Gold
Mouse Logitech M705
Keyboard Logitech Wave K350
Software Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/liwjs3
It's not speculative execution that's at fault here, it's the fact that they didn't put in vital permission and validation checks in the speculative execution engine to make sure that it doesn't do something stupid. You can have speculative execution and have it be secure, that is, if speculative execution is done right with security in mind. This is where Intel failed, they didn't think about security much like how Microsoft didn't think of security back in the early 2000s.
 
Joined
Mar 10, 2015
Messages
2,248 (1.31/day)
System Name Wut?
Processor 3900X
Motherboard ASRock Taichi X570
Cooling Water
Memory 32GB GSkill CL16 3600mhz
Video Card(s) Vega 56
Storage 2 x AData XPG 8200 Pro 1TB
Display(s) 3440 x 1440
Case Thermaltake Tower 900
Power Supply Seasonic Prime Ultra Platinum
Doesn't that increase performance quite substantially?
It was a joke about your speculation on Intel's reasoning. Their reasoning was performance gains - nothing more, nothing less.

To add to that, most companies don't know exploits exist. When they find out, they get run through an RMF to determine what they need to do. In this case, Intel's only option is a new architecture as I don't even think microcode can adjust how specex works. To be honest, this is outside any sort of 'expertise' I may have.

However, new architectures aren't quick fixes so there is not much they could do. They also didn't want to announce it to the world because, well, then everyone knows what to do. Considering it took nearly a decade for this to come to light (at least publicly), I don't hold a grudge on Intel for this.
 
Joined
Mar 6, 2017
Messages
1,739 (1.76/day)
Location
North East Ohio, USA
System Name My Super Computer
Processor Intel Core i7 8700K
Motherboard Gigabyte Z370 AORUS Ultra Gaming
Cooling Corsair H55 AIO
Memory 2x8GB Crucial/Micron Ballistix Sport DDR4-2400
Video Card(s) ASUS GeForce GTX1060 6GB
Storage Samsung 970 EVO 500 GB NVMe SSD (System Drive), Samsung 860 EVO 500 GB SATA SSD (Game Drive)
Display(s) HP 2311x and Acer G206HQL
Case CoolerMaster MasterBox Lite 5 RGB
Audio Device(s) On-Board Sound
Power Supply EVGA Supernova 650 G3 Gold
Mouse Logitech M705
Keyboard Logitech Wave K350
Software Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/liwjs3
Their reasoning was performance gains
But at what cost?
most companies don't know exploits exist.
Oh come on, I don't buy that crap in the case of Intel at all. If someone outside of Intel who doesn't know the ins and outs of Intel chips like they (Intel) themselves know it can find their exploits and yet Intel is supposedly staffed by people who are far smarter, there's something wrong. I can only imagine that someone bought these issues up inside Intel but they were told to keep their trap shut.
 
Joined
Mar 10, 2015
Messages
2,248 (1.31/day)
System Name Wut?
Processor 3900X
Motherboard ASRock Taichi X570
Cooling Water
Memory 32GB GSkill CL16 3600mhz
Video Card(s) Vega 56
Storage 2 x AData XPG 8200 Pro 1TB
Display(s) 3440 x 1440
Case Thermaltake Tower 900
Power Supply Seasonic Prime Ultra Platinum
But at what cost?

Oh come on, I don't buy that crap in the case of Intel at all. If someone outside of Intel who doesn't know the ins and outs of Intel chips like they (Intel) themselves know it can find their exploits and yet Intel is supposedly staffed by people who are far smarter, there's something wrong. I can only imagine that someone bought these issues up inside Intel but they were told to keep their trap shut.
It's possible they knew. But what are they going to do? Scrap their 10 year road map? If you think that Intel knows everyone of their vulnerabilities then you are mistaken. Many vulnerabilities exist because people find ways to do things that designers didn't think of. It happens all the time.

And yes, there are people outside of Intel that are smarter than people at Intel. Reverse engineers are some of the smartest people in the software world. You have to have a totally different mindset than a traditional programmer.
 
Joined
Mar 6, 2017
Messages
1,739 (1.76/day)
Location
North East Ohio, USA
System Name My Super Computer
Processor Intel Core i7 8700K
Motherboard Gigabyte Z370 AORUS Ultra Gaming
Cooling Corsair H55 AIO
Memory 2x8GB Crucial/Micron Ballistix Sport DDR4-2400
Video Card(s) ASUS GeForce GTX1060 6GB
Storage Samsung 970 EVO 500 GB NVMe SSD (System Drive), Samsung 860 EVO 500 GB SATA SSD (Game Drive)
Display(s) HP 2311x and Acer G206HQL
Case CoolerMaster MasterBox Lite 5 RGB
Audio Device(s) On-Board Sound
Power Supply EVGA Supernova 650 G3 Gold
Mouse Logitech M705
Keyboard Logitech Wave K350
Software Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/liwjs3
Joined
Mar 10, 2015
Messages
2,248 (1.31/day)
System Name Wut?
Processor 3900X
Motherboard ASRock Taichi X570
Cooling Water
Memory 32GB GSkill CL16 3600mhz
Video Card(s) Vega 56
Storage 2 x AData XPG 8200 Pro 1TB
Display(s) 3440 x 1440
Case Thermaltake Tower 900
Power Supply Seasonic Prime Ultra Platinum
I don't know... How about fix their crap?
Do think they can fart out an architecture overnight?

And yet the people inside Intel are supposed to know their stuff inside and out, forwards and backwards.
Unfortunately, people are still human and make mistakes that other humans will find.
 
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
452 (0.13/day)
That's the problem, who would do that deliberately? Intel is known for taking risks, but not foolish risks.
Just how much time have Intel lost delaying EUV? We have EUV tester packs which would make 7nm all the more feasible. Mask costs are a lot less and lithography in general more streamlined. The only thing is there is a huge waiting list for these machines with 2.5 years already booked. Guess, Intel is a part of the early adopters?
 
Top