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The Heatsink with NO FAN...The Sandia Cooler

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#51
:laugh:

Good thought. Yet still, I cannot help but hope that this sees some sort of success. Because it's Lockheed-Martin, they aren't actually ever going to release anything with this technology themselves, and instead, will liscence it to other companys to produce. The idea we might see a heatsink based on this tech might just not even last that 13 seconds. :laugh:
well put sir...

In all honesty I would like to see it too... it's time for a bit of a heatpipe revolution.

But having been through the TEC craze and the Danamics Liquid Metal hype, I can't help but be a bit jaded - not at the science - but at the end result. :ohwell: Still if it works... it would be awesome, the scope of application is much more than the initial idea - and that is great thing.
 
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#52
having put my hand inside pc case before tampering with stuff and catching it on a fan while the pc was on
i can see this destroying my finger
 
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#53
well put sir...

In all honesty I would like to see it too... it's time for a bit of a heatpipe revolution.

But having been through the TEC craze and the Danamics Liquid Metal hype, I can't help but be a bit jaded - not at the science - but at the end result. :ohwell: Still if it works... it would be awesome, the scope of application is much more than the initial idea - and that is great thing.
To be fair, tecs work you just need even more heatsinks/rads than you usually would :laugh:
 

qubit

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#54
The metallic grinding noise is unbearable if you ask me. I have loads of experience with standard fans and the noise pitch they emit can make all the difference. This one on a scale from 0-10 is at around 8.

For example i was running Noiseblocker BlackSilent fans till yesterday and even though they were very silent, they were emitting the sound with rather annoying pitch. Replaced all of them with Multiframe and even though they emit the same sort of decibel noise, the pitch is very different, way less annoying. They'll have to address this, otherwise it's an useless design.
I couldn't agree more. It sounds like a 90s hard disc with noisy ball bearings and is certainly intolerable. I can only hope that this level of noise is due to its prototype status and that a production model would use quiet FDB bearings.
 

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#55
I couldn't agree more. It sounds like a 90s hard disc with noisy ball bearings and is certainly intolerable. I can only hope that this level of noise is due to its prototype status and that a production model would use quiet FDB bearings.
Considering that this cooler works on the principles of fluid dynamics, one would imagine they would end up using a motor with fluid dynamic bearings on the final product, right?
Of course, like Dave said, this is a division of Lockheed. They'll probably end up licensing the design out to a few manufacturers and it will be up to the manufacturers to decide what types of motors, bearings, shrouds, etc. are used. Sort of like a video card: Nvidia or AMD designs a new card and sends the design specs to their partners, who then make changes as they see fit.

Even so, I think we're jumping the gun a bit. Sandia is just now getting to the phase where they show it off to prospective investors/partners. It's been almost a year since we saw the proof of concept, now they have a working model. It could be another year before that working model sees production.
 

qubit

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#56
Considering that this cooler works on the principles of fluid dynamics, one would imagine they would end up using a motor with fluid dynamic bearings on the final product, right?
Of course, like Dave said, this is a division of Lockheed. They'll probably end up licensing the design out to a few manufacturers and it will be up to the manufacturers to decide what types of motors, bearings, shrouds, etc. are used. Sort of like a video card: Nvidia or AMD designs a new card and sends the design specs to their partners, who then make changes as they see fit.

Even so, I think we're jumping the gun a bit. Sandia is just now getting to the phase where they show it off to prospective investors/partners. It's been almost a year since we saw the proof of concept, now they have a working model. It could be another year before that working model sees production.
It does make you wonder what's so hard about refining this new type of cooler for production readiness, doesn't it? After all, this is just a cooler, not something extremely complicated like an IC design or something.
 

FreedomEclipse

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#57
Who says anyone is intentionally sticking fingers into fans? Such things happen during maintenance or testing when systems are running, either for debugging or finding out other sorts of issues.
then what are you complaining about???? In anycase when the design is finalised it should come with a shroud that stops people putting their fingers in.

If you look carefully, the design is similar to the squirrel cage coolers that come on the reference coolers of graphic cards.

I dont see any problems with the 'safety' aspect of the design what so ever.


Like Random Murderer said, its common sense unless you feel the urge to stick your fingers in every fan once you got the side panel of your case open.

Either I fiddle with my pc when its turned off or I leave it running with the sidepanel off and dont touch the insides - i.e. look but not touch.

and if i do have to touch then i make sure my fingers dont get pulled into the blades of a spinning fan by its gravitational field the motor might make or the fans sucktion - which less face it. its hardly gonna drag you in as if you were in 300mph winds in a wind tunnel
 
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#58
^^ it probably would work well on a videocard.
 
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#59
I think in the end, the final production model will have just as many cons to it as a traditional heatsink and fan. At this time, there are just too many variables that will not allow this to be practical.
 

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#60
In anycase when the design is finalised it should come with a shroud that stops people putting their fingers in.
Indeed, the video says that it will be enclosed in a cover of some sort, so safety won't be an issue.
 

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#61
still i will question its effectiveness till they release some data.
i dont think this will work. but then again, i hope it does something, heatsinks are becoming too dull and similar nowadays.
 
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#62
Using a set of 5-6 heatpipes in a U formation these could function nicely and some sort of crazy dual tower cooler.

still i will question its effectiveness till they release some data.
i dont think this will work. but then again, i hope it does something, heatsinks are becoming too dull and similar nowadays.
They did mention processors of 150w, if this thing can cool 150w that is pretty damn efficient and up-scaled or with a slightly different design it could easily cool over-clocked processors .
 
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#63
If this thing is floating on air just barely, but what happens when you actually use it in your computer and its side ways wouldn't it just fall off?
 

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#64
If this thing is floating on air just barely, but what happens when you actually use it in your computer and its side ways wouldn't it just fall off?
LOL Yeah I was thinking the same thing. This is kinda lame really, The thing is a accident waiting to happen IMHO.
 

qubit

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#65
If this thing is floating on air just barely, but what happens when you actually use it in your computer and its side ways wouldn't it just fall off?
LOL Yeah I was thinking the same thing. This is kinda lame really, The thing is a accident waiting to happen IMHO.
Yeah and if you had a horizontal case, you couldn't move it, because it would drift off.
 
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#67
Is nobody watching the video? lol
 

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#68
If this thing is floating on air just barely, but what happens when you actually use it in your computer and its side ways wouldn't it just fall off?
The fin assembly is secured to the motor's spindle, which is in turn secured to the base. When the fin assembly stops spinning, it just rests on top of the base. It was stated in the video(or a previous video/press release, can't really remember but it was mentioned by someone else as well so I know I didn't imagine it) that the unit can be mounted in any orientation without problems.
 

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#69
If this uses a cushion of air to transfer the heat from the stationary base to the spinning impeller that can't be that efficient. Air is a terrible conductor of heat...

I'd like to see some actual performance numbers compared to traditional heatsinks.
 

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#70
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#71
The fin assembly is secured to the motor's spindle, which is in turn secured to the base. When the fin assembly stops spinning, it just rests on top of the base. It was stated in the video(or a previous video/press release, can't really remember but it was mentioned by someone else as well so I know I didn't imagine it) that the unit can be mounted in any orientation without problems.
Oh ok thanks i wasn't 100% sure(I was think it had to be connected some how) I watched the video, but I guess I missed that part.
 
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#72
If this uses a cushion of air to transfer the heat from the stationary base to the spinning impeller that can't be that efficient. Air is a terrible conductor of heat...

I'd like to see some actual performance numbers compared to traditional heatsinks.

Stationary air is a terrible conductor of heat.

pressurised fast moving air is fairly decent ( what the cushion is)
 
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#73
Couple of inconsistencies I see from a practical point of view here:

1)Dust will collect on inside of the impeller. I don't care what they claim. Until they put this in a room with 3 cats for a week I don't believe a word.
2)It will take far less dust to block the inside of the impeller than a normal setup.
3)They must comparing efficiency based off surface area of the heat exchanger, that is the ONLY way this could be "30 times more efficient". Even then, Its not smaller than a conventional air setup.
4)Stationary air is GREAT insulator.
 

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#74
Couple of inconsistencies I see from a practical point of view here:

1)Dust will collect on inside of the impeller. I don't care what they claim. Until they put this in a room with 3 cats for a week I don't believe a word.
2)It will take far less dust to block the inside of the impeller than a normal setup.
Yes, dust will inevitably get caught on the fins, hair even more so.
3)They must comparing efficiency based off surface area of the heat exchanger, that is the ONLY way this could be "30 times more efficient". Even then, Its not smaller than a conventional air setup.
They're comparing it to current industrial heat exchangers for things like transformers and solid-state lighting, not to conventional PC cooling solutions.
4)Stationary air is GREAT insulator.
Operative word being "stationary."
 
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#75
Couple of inconsistencies I see from a practical point of view here:

1)Dust will collect on inside of the impeller. I don't care what they claim. Until they put this in a room with 3 cats for a week I don't believe a word.
2)It will take far less dust to block the inside of the impeller than a normal setup.
3)They must comparing efficiency based off surface area of the heat exchanger, that is the ONLY way this could be "30 times more efficient". Even then, Its not smaller than a conventional air setup.
4)Stationary air is GREAT insulator.
~Sigh~

1) Dust collects because there is a fouling lay associated with fluids. The slower a fluid travels the larger this fouling layer is. Functionally, you can prevent dust from building up if the fouling layer depth is less than that of a dust particle. Extremely fast moving air can have this small of a fouling layer rather easily.
2) See 1. No dust buildup means it cannot be blocked.
3) No. They are comparing a larger heatsink, like the heatsinks you see on higher end cooling (think 212, and similar coolers). As explained way earlier, the increase in conductive and convective cooling is huge when the "bearing" material is a flowing fluid. Not hard to see the volumetric efficiencies being 30 times greater than conventional solutions.
4) STATIONARY. You make two assumptions when you say this. There is no convective cooling, and there are no fans. Air is a fluid, that moves based upon a large number of factors. Coolers generally have a fan to move air, which brings cooler air into the mix so that the difference in air temperatures (heatsink versus ambient) is higher. Higher temperature differences provoke more heat transfer.


Practicality means understanding the basics. Needless to say, the substantial change in the "basics" of how this cooler works are why it might be difficult to warm up to. Without citing any specifics, I would recommend that you take another look at the assumptions you are working under. A flawed set of assumptions can be interpreted correctly into an incorrect answer. I know I've been guilty of that in the past...