Discussion in 'Graphics Cards' started by AlienIsGOD, Sep 4, 2012.
Nether here nor there.
stop going off topic. Your opinion does not overcome facts that i stated. If this keeps up i'll ask a mod to deal with it. The fact you joined in Sept 2012 and have 25 posts and almost 23 avg for the day shows that you just showed up here and by the posts in my thread you don't mind trying to start trouble. Troll elsewhere....
Look if you want a 660ti go for it plain and simple. If you ask my opinion the 660ti is a bit overpriced right now and much overhyped. Remember the hype that surrounded the GTX 680 when it came out people saying that it was 40% faster than 7970 etc then after some time it settled down and we all relished that beyond the smoke and mirrors the 7970 was not far behind. In this case the same story is true with the 660ti and 7950 as when the hype settles down we will all see that the 7950 is truly ahead of the 660ti. Also you're monitor is 1080P I see so that's another +1 for the 7950 as the GTX 660ti is more in it's element @ 1680x1050P.
thats better Price is a factor tho as Canada Computers doesn't always have the lowest prices compared to say Newegg.ca. I just prefer to shop at a B & M store than online and at current pricing its 660Ti vs HD7870.
If you really really want Borderlands 2 the 660 Ti does seem like the best option by far, considering what you say about prices in your area. Moreso 660 Ti is virtually $50 cheaper because of Borderlands 2 no?
In fact when my 5870 died, the Asus 660TI mentioned earlier was more expensive than my PowerColor 7970
Well, that pretty much seals the deal for me, no-brainer really.
Sell the old card and buy a GTX670! You won't regret it!
I will whole heatedly recommend the 660ti like a raging fanboy when and if it ever goes back down to real world pricing like it should have been from day 1 $250 launch day street price.
Launch pricing nvidia
GTX 660ti $300
GTX 560ti $250
GTX 460 $185
If this cycle keeps up in another few generation the mid range cards will be more expense than the high end cards and the high end cards will cost like a GTX 690 STOP THE MADNESS !
Launch pricing AMD
HD 7950 $400
HD 6950 $300
HD 5850 $250
WTF is going on here people should we be forced to pay more every generation or when does this madness stop ?
It all comes down to launch price: HD6870 $240 - HD7870 $350.
This generation is actually Nvidia who's reacting and undercutting AMD on launch prices. AMD has gone through what 3 price cuts already? In the meantime Nvidia got the good price on reviews and paired up with low 28nm supply and excellent demand, they don't need to lower prices yet.
GPUs tend to become cheaper at around launch time like they are now for AMD and nvidia however mark my words they will go back up in price in time. Also I am not sure what are you mean you are trying to state that it's ok that launch pricing is on the rise so that they have a buffer to drop pricing and still turn a huge profit after they more or less stole money out of unwitting consumers pockets ?
lol no I'm not saying it's OK. Not for us anyway. I'm saying that it is what it is, because supply of 28nm is low and that's what they do to keep their revenue.
Then give us a 40nm GPU version of the 660ti that is $250 simple as that and if 28nm is a problem like it has been for nvidia I suggest changing up the game plan and not just charging more. If this time the excuse for price hikes is 28nm next time it will be a different excuse.
7950 max OC is 10% faster than the 660 ti max OC and is priced accordingly.
7870 with the Sleeping Dogs bundle is the best value right now out of all cards. There is a big jump in price to 660 ti / 7950 which strictly performance-wise speaking is only worth it if you can achieve super overclock on these cards, as at stock they are only 10% faster than the 7870.
However, 660 ti / 7950 are about the minimum needed to remain future proof for a couple of years, and, depending on PCB and model, they tend to be good overclockers.
IMHO there is no future proof as far as PC hardware is concerned. That being said lets entertain the fact that the next hardware robbing game like Metro 2033 or Crysis may or may not come around in the next 2 years or maybe we just should say that the 7870 will be a good card to run today at it's current price point. I like to think the later opinion is more accurate than the former for we cannot really accurately predict the future of PC game releases and how they will perform on current and past GPU hardware generations.
Yes, it is an excuse, to an extent. Everyone is suffering from 28nm shortage and low yields. Even AMD even though they said nothing (as if they needed one more bad thing on the list), or do you think their ultra high launch prices were from pure greed? It's not all black and white. In this case all of them are limited by 28 nm supply which means they just cannot make their revenue based on volume of sales, so they try to get it from higher ASP.
40 nm is not an option. These chips have way more transistors than the previous generation. GF110 was a 3.2 billion transistor chip and a behemoth on 40nm, GK104 is 3.5 billion. Tahiti 4.3 billion. Even Pitcairn is 2.8 billion. It's not an option. On the lower price points both AMD and Nvidia are using 40nm parts to alleviate the problem, but that's the only thing they can do atm.
Besides for a 40 nm 660 Ti at $250. You already have it. It's called GTX 570.
I suffer just like you, just like everybody else from this situation. Don't think I'm defending them, I was one to call them out on high prices on release. Look at the comments on HD7970 and GTX680 review. But the situation has been made more clear over the time, with TSMC saying they would not be able to meet demand until 2013. So while my position was the same as yours, it's chaged a little bit in regards to understanding (but not condoning) the fact that what happens is they have passed the extra costs to the consumer. Whinning won't solve anything, I'm voting with my wallet. No upgrade. Yet.
Re: future proof, I see no upcoming DX12, Frostbite 3, CryEngine4. Next gen consoles are not here yet
You're logic is flawed in that AMD has there whole entire line up out and the only reason they were charging more at the 7970 launch is because they could for nvidia had no answer so you had to pay top dollar for the fastest at the time GPU in the world which was 7970. What solves the problem is consumer advocacy which means we have to collectively cool it and not spend money on overpriced product. Eventually they will come down in price and when people start buying again nvidia will jack back up the prices again. If people are buying overpriced GPUs then nvidia thinks there is a demand for overpriced GPUs and prices will continue to rise with every new generational release.
Well the point I was trying to make was that it's the games that will determine when the hardware is obsolete not the hardware. Future proof is a flawed statement in the PC hardware arena. The games that are perfectly playable on a 7870 GTX 580 etc today which is all of them are not magically going to stop being playable two years or more from now so it will be a few games really that will determine how "Future Proof" a GPU is and those games are completely unknown to us at this point in time so as you can see there is no such thing as "Future Proof".
EDIT: First of all I should have said that on your post, you are describing bussiness. If there is demand prices go up. When there is not prices go down.
I find it strange to mention Nvidia once and again, when in fact is Nvidia the one who has NOT increased their price in last few generations. GTX480, GTX580, GTX680 all at $500. Second card at $400. The one to blame for prices is certainly AMD this generation. They launched high and refused to lower prices until each Nvidia card made their competing cards obsolete and even then they only adjusted the cards that were displaced, leaving for example 7870 at $350 until the 660 Ti launched. This hurts them first and then consumers.
Now AMD prices on channels are lower than MSRP and Nvidia's higher because of demand (Nvidia does not think there is demand at those high prices, there IS demand). There's a much higher demand for Nvidia cards in part because AMD let Nvidia have all the review glory for every card released (performance, power consumption, price, everything, but mostly price).
Nvidia does not set the final price, partners and retailers do. Everyone wants to profit as much as posible. Nvidia only sells the cards for a certain price to partners and recommends a price, which granted, partners better comply at least with one model for the sake of good relations and ongoing bussiness, but that's it. They have ample room to charge a premium on almost every model except that one and they enforce it.
You are trying to complicate a simple issue which is if GPU manufactures keep rising prices like they are then that's like telling nvidia directly it's ok and then nvidia will charge even more because consumers are telling them it's ok to overcharge buy spending there money on them. I never mentioned anything about nvidias high end card I said nvidia is gouging people on there mid range cards.
Launch pricing nvidia (MID RANGE)
GTX 660ti $300
GTX 560ti $250
GTX 460 $185
Future proof doesn't mean forever. Now is a good time to future proof, compared to the past years
Yes I understand and agree that the cards are much better performance wise now in days but I have a thing about the use of future proof in the context you used as it is a logical fallacy and confuses some people.
Whats the debate? Just get as much money together as you can and buy the best card. Now
I just got myself a HD7950 for $319. Probably one of the best value for dollar cards out there and they overclock like demons. You can look at the 7970 but i saw a review where theres only 3% in it at same clocks. Cheapest GTX660 was $349 and GTX670 $435. Kinda no brainer for me. Have fun saving your pennys.
well seeing that im using a 22" 1080P monitor, anything that I do get will last me at least 2 years. I used crossfired 512mb 4850s til last Dec before upgrading to my HD 6870 1GB, so im sure the performance of a HD7870/7950 or 660Ti will be more than enough till 2014.
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