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UPS's - Does anyone use them for the main rig or their networking kit or something else??

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I guess it depends. Where are I live currently I have a great deal of pain with the electricity. Been cutting and immediately coming back at least twice a day. I lost a laser printer due to that recently. Like the printer is working, but the communication PCB to the PC died. Replacing that part (I have the part number) costs as much as a new printer, so I will not be saving it.

I thought about UPS, but it won't really "save me" if I was working from home as the IPS network is also down due to the power outage, so you still can't get anything done without internet....

I am more interested in a really decent surge protection than UPS to be honest.
 

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I guess it depends. Where are I live currently I have a great deal of pain with the electricity. Been cutting and immediately coming back at least twice a day. I lost a laser printer due to that recently. Like the printer is working, but the communication PCB to the PC died. Replacing that part (I have the part number) costs as much as a new printer, so I will not be saving it.

I thought about UPS, but it won't really "save me" if I was working from home as the IPS network is also down due to the power outage, so you still can't get anything done without internet....

I am more interested in a really decent surge protection than UPS to be honest.
Keeping the PC online through a 2 second blip prevents a crash and possible data loss/corruption as much as it gives you time for a shutdown in a bigger outage


I was getting a fuse tripping from a faulty powerboard i didnt know about, and two UPS kept my PC and wifi only through maybe 6 outages over a year - totally worth it, if a single part could have died otherwise
 
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I am more interested in a really decent surge protection than UPS to be honest.
That's not the right way to think about it.

First, backup power during a full power outage is only a minor, bonus feature of a "good" UPS with AVR (automatic voltage regulation). By far, it is the AVR feature that makes a "good" UPS so important and desirable.

A Mussels points out, a "good" UPS will prevent a system crash and data/corruption. But it is important to note that such an event can also result in permanent equipment damage too. Most quality power supplies can tolerate many mild to moderate "hits". But not extreme anomalies. And even with mild to moderate hits, those add up and over time, will wear down even the best of power supplies. And while rare, a power supply that suddenly fails (depending on how it fails) can take out any component taken with it. So not only do you lose your data from a corrupt drive, you may end up with a destroyed CPU, RAM and motherboard too! :(

As far as surge protection with a surge and spike protector - not good enough! A surge and spike protector is little more than a fancy and expensive extension cord as they do absolutely nothing for abnormal low voltage events like dips (opposite of spikes) and sags (opposite of surges), or long duration sags (brownouts) - any of which can cause our electronics to suddenly stop, resulting in possible data corruption. And for "extreme" surges and spikes, a surge and spike protector simply kills power (if working properly) to our components. That's hardly good for our computer, drives, or data.

Surge and spike protectors wear out. So if the surge and spike protector is worn out (it is recommended surge and spike protectors be replaced every 2 years) or damaged, they typically provide little to no protection at all. :( And most give no warning or notification they need to be replaced.

A "good" UPS with AVR will help shape (regulate) the waveform into something more easily used by the devices plugged into it. In low voltage events, it will use the batteries to boost the voltage up to normal levels (without kicking over to full battery power). And in extreme high voltage events, it will use the batteries to dump the excess voltage (which batteries can absorb with ease), and/or dump the excess to ground (Earth).

Note I keep saying "good" UPS with AVR. Like power supplies, there are cheap, good, and best. The best are very expensive at $400 or more, and not needed for most users. The ATX Form Factor standard requires all PSUs "hold" voltages for a mere 16ms (milliseconds) during abnormal power events. If that 16ms drop caused a "flicker" in the lights, it would be way to short/fast for our brains to even detect it. Yet a "good" UPS can react easily within that time frame.

Note I have an APC 1500VA UPS. That is more than enough to support my computer, wireless router, cable modem, home phone - oh, and TWO 24" widescreen monitors from power anomalies. And it will provide power in the event of a full outage for about 50 minutes. 65 minutes if I immediately turn off one monitor. And it will keep my wireless network alive for several hours if I quickly shutdown the computer and turn off the monitors when the power goes off. Still having Internet access via a wireless device during a full power outage might even be considered much more than a "minor bonus feature!"

Many assume if they have a modern, clean and stable power grid, they don't need a "good" UPS. That is not true. Any large appliance inside your home can produce destructive anomalies. Refrigerators, water coolers, microwave ovens, toasters are all capable of dumping surges, spikes, dips and sags onto the circuit EVERY TIME they cycle on and off. Modern high-wattage appliances attempt to suppress such anomalies – "IF" they are not damaged and are working properly. But low-tech cheap appliances will not. A cheap, $15, 1500W hair dryer assembled in some obscure factory in the backwoods of China, using under-trained, under-aged :mad:, often forced :mad: labor, assembled with questionable parts from a similar factory upriver, comes to mind.

The one downside to a UPS is the batteries do need to be replaced every 2 - 5 years, depending on how they are used (abused?) during normal operation. However, these are user-replaceable with most UPS and if you shop around, you can find replacements much cheaper than sold by the UPS maker. I never buy my replacement batteries from the UPS maker.

For the record, I live in Tornado Alley. I have an UPS on all my computers, the home theater audio equipment and TV, garage door opener, and even my electric blanket! :D
 
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A while back when I was having some major electrical work done, I had the electricians also install a whole-house, LNG-powered generator with an automatic transfer switch, which kicks in after about 10 mins of power loss, and a commercial grade whole-house surge protector. However, I still have my main rig, router, cable modem on an APC UPS and individual surge protectors for everything in each room of the house...
 
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Got UPS back up on all my rigs (servers, switch, modem, WAPs, etc) got all Cyberpower ups the last 2 APC UPS I bought died on me after 2-3 months (maybe my luck) so Im sticking with Cyberpower.
 
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I used to use UPS units for my electric blankets, so they didn't get turned off during a glitch; I eventually had to move to sine-wave units for this. But that was when I used dumped units and worked on desulfating old lead acid batteries.
 
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A while back... ...I had the electricians also install a commercial grade whole-house surge protector. However, I still have my main rig, router, cable modem on an APC UPS and individual surge protectors for everything in each room of the house...
Smart! :) Whole-house surge arrestors offer excellent protection for your equipment from surges coming off the "grid" - such as lightning hitting the transformer on the pole down the street. That is where most destructive surges will come from - most, but not all. Whole-house arrestors do not protect you from surges and spikes that are generated by faulty or poorly made high-wattage devices inside your home or office.

That said, should you pi$$ off Mother Nature, nothing will protect your electronics should she decide to toss a lightning bolt directly at you! Bottom line - have a robust backup plan in place for all your data, use it, and make sure you know how to restore your data from those backups. It is surprising to learn someone took the effort to create a backup plan, used it, then, when the time came to need it, didn't know how to restore their data from it. :(

I used to use them for my electric blankets, so they didn't get turned off during a glitch; I eventually had to move to sine-wave units for this. But that was when I used dumped units and worked on desulfating lead acid batteries.
Well, we've had this discussion before. I see no reason why a pure sine-wave UPS would be needed for an electric blanket - unless there was something unique (or fault) about that specific blanket. Or the UPS used was faulty or had a defect and was emitting (or was susceptible to) excessive EMI/RFI. Otherwise, none of the arguments (and we've heard them all) for pure sinewave UPS pan out or hold up in real-world use.

ANd I do keep saying "good" UPS with AVR. I would not use the cheapest UPS I could find - on anything! (Not saying you did, just saying!)

Since I first mentioned years ago that I have my electric blankets on UPSs, several of my friends and technician colleagues in this area have done the same. None have reported problems with stepped approximated output UPS. BTW, maintaining power to the electric blanket makes for a happy (or at least not complaining about being cold) better-half. ;) Well, unless the power is out for hours. :( Or days. :( :( :mad:

Stepped approximated wave form (simulated sinewave) UPS are used (and have been for decades) in great abundance all over the world with sensitive electronics (like computers and high-end audio gear), even electric blankets, and things with motors (like garage door openers) with no problems. I just tested my little APC 800VA UPS with my electric blanket a couple days ago when the first hard freeze of the season (19°F) hit the Omaha area. I turned on the blanket, pulled the UPS plug from the wall, and abracadabra, hocus pocus, nothing happened! The electric blanket kept making heat and my alarm clock/outdoor temperature gauge kept displaying the time and temp. After 15 minutes, I plugged the UPS back in.

IMO, it is pure "marketing hype" from the pure sinewave UPS makers that claim pure sinewave is needed. It just isn't with - maybe - the exception of highly sensitive medical life-support or highly sensitive scientific measuring/monitoring equipment.

I am NOT suggesting pure sinewave UPS be avoided. On the contrary, since their prices have dramatically dropped in recent years, I say if shopping for a new UPS, if you can find one that meets your power needs at a competitive price from a reputable maker, go for it. But if you find a stepped approximated output UPS you like, don't let the fact it is not pure sinewave deter you from buying it. Today's computer and other power supplies have no problem working with them.

Let's not forget that regardless if pure sinewave or simulated, that ONLY is an issue when the UPS has kicked over to batteries during a full power outage. Even here in Tornado Alley, that is pretty rare. At all other times, the line voltage just passes through - though it may be slightly shaped/regulated if needed - but that's a good thing! :)

And we must also remember that the purpose for having a "good" UPS is not so we can keep playing our games or continue working. It is so we can save our place in that game, finish our sentence in our Word document, quickly send that last email, save our open documents, exit our open programs, then "gracefully" shutdown Windows and power off our systems, hopefully long before the UPS batteries run down.
 
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Hi,
Yeah I was going to plop for another cyberpower 1325va pure sine wave the one I have has been just fine for nearly 2 years and some of the reviews were shit on the 1350va model on amazon
Over 10k reviews though guess I shouldn't take the bad ones as god but it is a different model than mine :/
 
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Unlike Bill Bright, I am happy to use inexpensive, non-AVR UPSes strategically in situations where AVR is mostly throwing money away from a risk tolerance perspective.

I have less expensive UPSes behind a couple of USB chargers for various portable devices. Another on my DSL modem/router. Another for my inkjet printer/scan thing. Stuff like that.

This all-or-nothing must-be-AVR-or-die attitude is a little bonkers.

To protect $3000 worth of PC gear? Yeah, sure. To protect a 5W USB charger or $75 printer? Nah...
 
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I use one for my PC and it has came in very handy on multiple occasions in just the first year. For some reason people crash their cars into poles around here. I like being able to use HWINFO to monitor total system usage w/o installing any software:
1666318422472.png


Don't need to install the software for handling automatic shutdowns or anything either as Windows power management options can handle that if you set it up. Though I imagine the software would have a better interface, I prefer to keep my background processes to a minimum.
 
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Line interactive UPS tend to fail when the conditions of the mains input are harsh, I repair them and the damage is almost inevitable when your mains has a saw blade pattern, I can't *see* it with a power analyser but if I probe a wall socket with my "good" meter the voltage will jump like crazy between 170 and 180, it might be around 200 in a good day, frequency will also hover around the 48-51Hz mark, between acceptable limits but it should be 50. And it's like that everywhere, cheap UPS get fried, practically anything gets in the long run, motors, cheap power supplies, even electronic ballasts and rectified light bulbs.

Online UPS can help but the AVR circuitry will be stressed to the limit by the anomalies -but it's not like this is a problem worldwide- and eventually fail too, but not as soon as with simpler devices, and the batteries won't be used as much to cope with the line faults.

There's an use case for both of these technologies, if your mains is relatively normal then a line-interactive will do just fine, if not, then invest in a better device.

Computer, monitor and speakers go into the UPS, the rest is protected by an ancient AVR with a bulky 3kVA transformer and filter caps that smooth out the sine wave pretty well, only downside is heat, and sometimes there are sparks in the relays but other than that it has outlasted both modern AVRs I've bought for other things.

Again, it's not like this anywhere else so spending a lot on a good UPS just to have like a single 5-minute outage every 2 years isn't an investment but wasting money imo.
 
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I do, get quite a few storm season brownouts, very short outages (think wall light switch flipping repeatedly). Would rather protesct my investment than worrying that I might be wasting money.
 
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Unlike Bill Bright, I am happy to use inexpensive, non-AVR UPSes strategically in situations where AVR is mostly throwing money away from a risk tolerance perspective.

I have less expensive UPSes behind a couple of USB chargers for various portable devices. Another on my DSL modem/router. Another for my inkjet printer/scan thing. Stuff like that.

This all-or-nothing must-be-AVR-or-die attitude is a little bonkers.

To protect $3000 worth of PC gear? Yeah, sure. To protect a 5W USB charger or $75 printer? Nah...
:( Ummm, where did I ever say anyone needs an expensive UPS with AVR for a USB wall wart? Or printer/scanner things? I didn't

I said, "I would not use the cheapest UPS I could find - on anything!" I did NOT say I would use an UPS, let alone an expensive UPS with AVR on everything. In fact, I have wall warts, USB wall chargers and other devices all over the house that do NOT go through a UPS or even a surge and spike protector. I see no reason (for me) to have my printer on any sort of backup power device. So my printer goes through a basic surge and spike protector and that's it. And actually, the only reason the printer even goes through a surge and spike protector at all is because that protector gives me 6 outlets at one wall outlet location.

And FTR, as I indicated before, my cable modem and wireless router go through the same UPS with AVR as this computer. Nowhere did I say or suggest I bought an expensive UPS with AVR just for those devices.

So unlike caldes, I am not "throwing money away" on UPS to support low-priority USB chargers and "stuff like that".

Line interactive UPS tend to fail when the conditions of the mains input are harsh
Not sure what you mean by "fail"? Decent (and by "decent" I mean just about anything above super budget/entry level) line interactive UPS will shut down to protect themselves and more importantly, the equipment connected to the UPS if/when the UPS senses the line/mains voltage is too dirty. Some UPS will shut down, or refuse to power on, when the "earth" ground is missing or flaky. Those are good things, not bad. And those are not a "failures" but properly working safety features.

And for the record, any good UPS will do this, including the other types (off-line/standby and on-line). The same is true for simple, but quality line regulators/filters as often seen on high-end audio reproduction equip. For example, in high-home home theater systems.

And note in extreme case, yes the UPS (even the best of the best) will truly "fail". That is, it will essentially sacrifice itself in the event of an extreme anomaly in order to "open" the circuit, thus isolating and protecting the connected equipment from destruction too. Again, a good thing. And I suspect that is what is causing the UPS you have seen that needed repair.

the voltage will jump like crazy between 170 and 180, it might be around 200 in a good day, frequency will also hover around the 48-51Hz mark, between acceptable limits but it should be 50.
:eek: That is NOT acceptable at all! I don't know where Banania is but 170 - 180VAC is unacceptable regardless if your mains standard is 115VAC or 240VAC. And, at least here in US where 60Hz is the line frequency, the general acceptable tolerance is no more than ±0.5% or 59.7Hz to 60.3Hz.

If your line frequency deviates that much (and I understand some less affluent Eastern European countries see even worse with 47 to 53Hz :() then your grid is indeed unstable. :( Not sure anything but the most robust line regulators and filter systems would ensure (if that is even possible) uninterrupted and "safe" grid service.
 
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Not everyone here cares as much as AVR power as some people here. It's worth it for your expensive gear.

Not everyone also has their networking gear right next to their primary PC. In fact, you really don't want it there if you have a choice, especially if you have a WiFi network. DIY desktop PCs tend to generate a fair amount of EMI.

Even the cheaper UPSes are still better than a cheap power strip. For mundane electronics, cheap UPSes are fine. Save your bucks and buy a better AVR unit for your most important gear (which might include external backup drives).

Remember that some of the advice given here is "best practices" from an IT staffer/PC repair shop owner's perspective. It's not the only way to do things, just like the way a three-star Michelin chef isn't the only way to cook _____.

For many situations (like this one), there are a spectrum of solutions. Some solutions provide professional grade coverage. Others do not. The former are more expensive. The latter not as much. A lot of solutions/instructions are good because they provide more uniform results, something important if different people are doing the same task for the same organization. That's why restaurants use recipes: consistency.

I wish more people online would realize that not everyone is aspiring to run a datacenter or their own PC repair service. This really only happens in PC discussion forums. If you go to a food site, most answers are giving in the context of home cooking, not running a 3-star Michelin restaurant or some airline/hospital catering kitchen.
 
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Solar panel systems w/o batteries are tied to the grid so when power goes out you lose power to everything, panels too. I'm not a huge PV geek but essentially the power company does not see you as a power generator. Systems w/o batteries cannot sell excess power back to the grid.

By adding batteries you get classed as a power generator and can now sell excess power back to the grid. Beyond this there are a lot of benefits to batteries and capturing the excess generated power. In our case we take advantage of our time of use plan, and do not use grid power except late at night when power is at its cheapest and it is generally the periods where we use the least energy, except when charging our ev.

The crux is when there is max sun, the system charges the batteries first, then it sends power to the grid. When the sun runs out it then switches to the batteries till it drains them to our reserve point of 35%. That 35% will come online if the grid goes down. In our case 35% is about enough to get us thru the night till morning. Voila nothing spoils in the fridge and ice is still ice.

Regarding Powerwalls as UPS, technically they are not UPS but more like a generator. However in the real world sometimes I see a flash in the lights but often times we don't even know that the main power is down. Recently like a few weeks ago the main breaker died and we lost power. I would not have even known had I not habitually check the app to see how much power is going where. It's kind of made me insane in that way always checking how much consumption etc and whose being a power guzzler lol.
Do you have net metering? With net metering I am not selling power but I do get credit for whatever excess goes to the grid annually. I will never be paid for my production but my excess summer production can be used in the winter.
 
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I see no reason why a pure sine-wave UPS would be needed for an electric blanket

Anyone here able to do the test? some older models work with square wave, some need sine wave.

It's a safety feature, one really doesn't want 120V on a blanket that can fray or get wet; a triac control can have it work on the low part of the sine-wave.
 
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Anyone here able to do the test? some older models work with square wave, some need sine wave.

LOL, how does that help?

How many people know the internals of their electric blanket? And even if you tested some old electric blanket with various UPSes (square wave and sine wave), how would that help someone else?

It's not like anyone sane is going to seek out the Sleepmaster PowerBlanket 6200 released in 2005 because the PowerBlanket 7200 XT released in 2008 won't work with _____ square-wave UPS.
 
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It bugs me not to understand the technology I use; I'd rather it wasn't just magic.
 
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True, but sometimes I just want to figure things out and it's not always useful.

Well then buy a bunch of old electric blankets, some UPSes and go nuts. Asking someone else to help feed this particular curiosity is a bit strange.

There are thousands of other things I think TPUers would rather spend their precious free time on rather than plugging in old electric blankets into UPSes.

Should they create a spreadsheet to track how each UPS power output technology affects electric blanket peak temperatures? Warmup time? They could have so much fun! No better way to spend a Friday night!!!
 
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Do you have net metering? With net metering I am not selling power but I do get credit for whatever excess goes to the grid annually. I will never be paid for my production but my excess summer production can be used in the winter.
Ofc you're selling it back, although it's called a credit till the end of the year. It would be a huge burden if they trued up at the end of each month for each consumer producer, hence its done at end of year. And if at the end of the year you have a surplus, it will get trued up at whatever the NSC rate is which is like 2-3 cents per kwh.
 
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Well then buy a bunch of old electric blankets, some UPSes and go nuts. Asking someone else to help feed this particular curiosity is a bit strange.

There are thousands of other things I think TPUers would rather spend their precious free time on rather than plugging in old electric blankets into UPSes.

Should they create a spreadsheet to track how each UPS power output technology affects electric blanket peak temperatures? Warmup time? They could have so much fun! No better way to spend a Friday night!!!
Speak for yourself I'd really do it. I'm only missing something: the blankets. :D
Did it once with box fans already, I didn't make the excel spreadsheet but posted all the results and how fitting the fans with different capacitors or altering the voltage affected their behaviour.

I'd rather spend 'a Friday night' running these tests than be out there puking in an alleyway after drinking too much at a club. I don't find that a fun activity, at all, tinkering with electronics though... count me in, always.


Not sure what you mean by "fail"? Decent (and by "decent" I mean just about anything above super budget/entry level) line interactive UPS will shut down to protect themselves and more importantly, the equipment connected to the UPS if/when the UPS senses the line/mains voltage is too dirty. Some UPS will shut down, or refuse to power on, when the "earth" ground is missing or flaky. Those are good things, not bad. And those are not a "failures" but properly working safety features.
Decent is key here. The units most people can afford in my country don't fall into that category. Leaky batteries are the most common failure, my spidey sense tells me it's because of the units constantly switching to battery power when the voltage is too low for the transformer to cope with. Below 180 the battery kicks in.
Other than that I see fried MOSFETs and blown caps, it's worth mentioning said caps are not ideal, rated at 200V when they should be at least 350, for safety reasons and all, but that's where noname unit manufacturers cheap out the most.

No ground fault protection, sometimes there's a wire but it goes nowhere because the plugs don't have an earth pin. Mine lights up an LED but won't shut off, if I do a bootleg job the LED will go off but I'd rather not as I could plug it the wrong way and either fry everything inside or shock myself. Don't try that at home kids.

:eek: That is NOT acceptable at all! I don't know where Banania is but 170 - 180VAC is unacceptable regardless if your mains standard is 115VAC or 240VAC. And, at least here in US where 60Hz is the line frequency, the general acceptable tolerance is no more than ±0.5% or 59.7Hz to 60.3Hz.

If your line frequency deviates that much (and I understand some less affluent Eastern European countries see even worse with 47 to 53Hz :() then your grid is indeed unstable. :( Not sure anything but the most robust line regulators and filter systems would ensure (if that is even possible) uninterrupted and "safe" grid service.
The power plant supplying my house and the nearby town is a relic, genuine 19th Century construction. That's great if you're into history and old machinery but terrible when you get your power from there lol
There's been improvements tho, I know a guy that works there, been there as well and two of the original generators are still working while the rest (4) are in place but offline, the replacements are from the 1950s with some modern components but that's it, most transformers are also vintage but there are new ones as well, transmission lines are new-ish too.
When it was built it was only supplying 500 buildings between the town and rural areas, now it's supplying 20.000, big difference. The house I live in was between the first 500 buildings which is neat, found two original Edison sockets from those times behind old furniture too, good thing nobody ever had them replaced, maybe that's part of why I like antique technology so much heh. Not much has changed though, American screw bases are used for light bulbs and early British plugs for power, the good thing of having a standard that just works I suppose, an early 1900s adapter that makes your screw base into a regular socket still works with today's parts, as long as you don't exceed 5 amps that is, someone at some point did and the heat made a crack in the ceramic.
Anyway, enough ramblings.
 
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Ofc you're selling it back, although it's called a credit till the end of the year. It would be a huge burden if they trued up at the end of each month for each consumer producer, hence its done at end of year. And if at the end of the year you have a surplus, it will get trued up at whatever the NSC rate is which is like 2-3 cents per kwh.
Net metering means that I don't get anything back at the end of the year. In my area they aim for 90% production because anything over 100% is giving the power company free money.
 
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Net metering means that I don't get anything back at the end of the year. In my area they aim for 90% production because anything over 100% is giving the power company free money.
Pretty sure net metering refers to the billing/metering tool. It doesn't sound like you are in the US, or are you?
 

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I used to use UPS units for my electric blankets, so they didn't get turned off during a glitch; I eventually had to move to sine-wave units for this. But that was when I used dumped units and worked on desulfating old lead acid batteries.
It must get cold in your swamp



I also have a 4G backup SIM in my router, so with that during an outage i get about an hour of the PC on a UPS, and ~8 hours of internet for thinks like my smart doorbell (which is also a wifi security camera)

If they weren't so expensive i'd love to have more, one per PC would be fantastic. Just big enough to get a PC to hibernate or shutdown safely.
 
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