UPS's - Does anyone use them for the main rig or their networking kit or something else??

[sam_86314]

I have two identical (1300VA) UPSes for my main PC and my home server. Our wireless networking setup is also on a 450VA UPS.

During the last extended power outage we had, we were able to still use the internet for about 45 minutes if I remember. My server was also able to shut down properly rather than just having the power cut (which can potentially cause all sorts of issues).

I would love to experiment with a whole-house battery backup based on deep-cycle marine batteries or the like. We already have solar, so I'm sure we could do some neat stuff with that.

 

[Mussels]

I use a Cyberpower one on my main PC, and want a smaller one for my modem/router
It's good with generic drivers as windows treats it as a laptop battery - i think with as much off as possible, i can see around 45 minutes to an hour of power on it

I dont get many outages here, so its not about keeping things running for hours or anything, but rather coverage for the rare brownout and time to safely shut down

Threads like this always make me re-check current UPS prices, always poo. One of those "UPS in a power board" type ones would be ideal for my modem/router.

 

[Shrek]

I got so desperate about the cost of replacing the batteries that first I tried to extend their life

Desulfation in Lead-acid Batteries; a Novel (resistive) Approach : 3 Steps - Instructables​

​

then I tried supercapacitors to get a few minutes of runtime

Replacing a UPS Battery With Super-Capacitors : 5 Steps - Instructables​

​

nice to see lithium-based UPS units are now available

Amazon.com: Vertiv Liebert PSI5 Lithium-Ion UPS -1500VA/13500W 120V Mini Tower Line Interactive AVR | UPS Lithium Battery Backup | Single Phase (PSI5-1500MT120LI) : Everything Else​

 

[R-T-B]

nice to see lithium-based UPS units are now available

Still quite expensive though. Would take quite a few lead acid replacements to make up the difference.

 

[mclaren85]

I do use line interactive APC brand UPS. It has also voltage regulator function.

 

[Shrek]

Still quite expensive though. Would take quite a few lead acid replacements to make up the difference.

True, way out of my budget... but putting a lithium battery in an old UPS might not be; but for the moment our electricity is so stable as not to justify such a project.

 

[thesmokingman]

True, way out of my budget... but putting a lithium battery in an old UPS might not be;

It would be a bad idea to throw lithium chemistry batteries in there w/o a BMS. Take a look at this retrofit 12v Lithium battery for a Tesla and note it's using a lower density chemistry, LFP. Notice that it includes a BMS to regulate voltage, load balancing, damage prevention etc etc. W/o a BMS, think FIRE.

12V Lithium Battery for TESLA Model 3

Battery Terminals: SAE, Positive Top Back LeftDimensions: 185mm x 116mm x 198mm (L x W x H) / +20mm for postsWeight: 9 lbsWhat's Included: 12V LFP Battery, Warranty Card ATTENTION: Please note that your vehicle may prematurely recommend 12V battery replacements when a LiFePO4 battery is...

www.ohmmu.com

 

[Shrek]

I would not consider a battery without an inbuilt BMS circuit

Dakota Lithium 12v 10Ah Battery - Half the Weight & Twice the Power
"
INCLUDES ACTIVE BMS PROTECTION
Contains a circuit that handles cell balancing, low voltage cutoff, high voltage cutoff, short circuit protection and high temperature protection for increased performance and longer life.
"

Amusingly, by 'twice the power' they really mean 'twice the energy'

 

[thesmokingman]

The other thing that will not be good is the charging. I doubt the charger in a UPS is lipo ready/safe.

That said, Tesla has started to change the 12v lead batts in their catl lithium cells. Also, they're doing it in all cars not just the S/X in the article. Lead acid in whatever form marine etc suck balls. These lithium batts will last the life of the car so up to 500K miles which is what is expected of the car's HV pack w/o only 20% degradation. Not bad...

Tesla's New 12V Li-Ion Auxiliary Battery Has CATL Cells Inside

With the refreshed Model S/Model X, Tesla has switched from lead-acid to an all-new lithium-ion 12V auxiliary battery. Let's take a look.

insideevs.com

So they can now handle cranking currents?

There's nothing to crank on an EV.

 

[silentbogo]

Still quite expensive though. Would take quite a few lead acid replacements to make up the difference.

Not by much, considering all benefits:
1) Don't need to swap as often as SLAB or gel, which saves the cost.
2) Usually your UPS gets a lot longer warranty coverage (usually based on how long your first batch of batteries lasts). W/ led-acid models you usually get 2 years, while Li-ion models from APC or EATON get around 5 year coverage, cause they expect the battery to go first. May be not critical, but gives you a piece of mind.
3) There are relatively inexpensive conversion kits for regular UPS, or a straight-forward drop-in replacements, which only cost few % more than conventional SLAB and sometimes a little cheaper than AGM.

Just found out today that my local manufacturer started selling LiFePO4 UPS batteries for less than $20/ea(only 12V 5Ah, but comes w/ 3Y warranty). Might need to give it a try on my next rotation.
And if you don't trust those mystery cells, you can get a kit from Aliexpress and fill it up with your own cells.

7.89US $ |12v Case Li-ion Battery Storage Box 3x7 18650 Holder For Uninterrupted Power Supply Ups Electric Sprayer Dropshipping - Battery Accessories & Charger Accessories - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

Looks about the same size as your typical 12V 7Ah unit, and accomodates 3s7p setup. With good batteries you can push it to ~18-20Ah (with high-capacity cells), or 12Ah with high-C cells if you need more power. Still not 100% sure how it's gonna work with charge/discharge cutoff voltages in regular UPS, but looks quite promising. Worst case - might need to swap a few resistors on the control board, or replace the charging part of the circuit.

 

[R-T-B]

Still not 100% sure how it's gonna work with charge/discharge cutoff voltages in regular UPS, but looks quite promising.

We've been over this. It never charges to capacity, and that's with one of those BMS thingys. Different charge curves, different cell voltages.

Also, 2 vs 5 years for a price increase of almost $600 over lead acid at $200 for a similar VA... no, that pretty much makes my point.

If the UPS was cheaper it'd be swell, because the battery tech IS better. But it isn't cheaper.

W/ led-acid models you usually get 2 years

3 years is my replacement window, seldom have a failure before then...

I have thought about building my own lifepo4 battery bank with inverter though and proper charger, no lie...

 

[Shrek]

There's nothing to crank on an EV.

Here is what confused me:
12V Lithium Battery for Honda Insight | ohmmu.com
"Drop-in replacement for; Group 51R batteries."

I assume this is a cranking battery (My Honda Civic uses 51R)

 

[Caring1]

Can Mods please shut this thread before it gets any more derailed please.
I'm sure the OP has their answer.

 

[Mussels]

Can Mods please shut this thread before it gets any more derailed please.
I'm sure the OP has their answer.

OP *is* a mod, he can close it himself if he feels that way

 

[Shrek]

I, for one, am finding the detours most educational; it's the very reason I hang out here, to learn.

And it would seem penguins do have knees

 

[remixedcat]

I use 2 APC units .. Backups BR1500MS sine wave 1500va/900w for my main rig/Samsung 23in display/Cisco Meraki mx64 router/Arris surfboard modem and a Backups BN1080NS for the switch and wireless they have been good so far. Saved my ass a lot and even work with Linux bc it has integration for battery health and levels and such.

 

[Caring1]

OP *is* a mod, he can close it himself if he feels that way

I am aware of that, but He has not been back since his opening question.

 

[R-T-B]

Can Mods please shut this thread before it gets any more derailed please.
I'm sure the OP has their answer.

It's all UPS-related battery discussion. I honestly find it related enough.

 

[remixedcat]

It's all UPS-related battery discussion. I honestly find it related enough.

Same. It would still help the op later on instead of them making a new thread later or procrastinating lol

 

[caroline!]

I use one to protect my computer + monitor, I don't have a server or any other computers and this big boy is more than enough, AVR capabilities are being put to good use all the time due to brownouts and outages. Control board was damaged when I got it (for scrap price literally) but it's been working fine after repairs, batteries appear to be working fine and the UPS is able to charge hooked up to a propane generator that I have to face outages that can span over weeks during summer.

It's a really important and useful device when it comes to protect your system(s) from a defective mains grid, though it doesn't makes any sense to have one if you have like two 5 min outages per year and your input voltage is fully stable.

 

[silentbogo]

We've been over this. It never charges to capacity, and that's with one of those BMS thingys. Different charge curves, different cell voltages.

This topic got me curious again, so I dug a little deeper. Those branded batteries from our local manufacturer are all LiFePO4 (so as APC and EATON ones), which means they are in a 4S5P configuration.
For 12V lead-acid the workable range is 11.6-14.4V, and for this LiFePO4 setup it's 10.0-14.4V. Charging currents for SLAB/AGM are relatively low (usually under 2A in a single-battery UPS), which means it's safe for LiFePO4 cells (only ~0.5A per cell, but not ideal due to lack of trickle charge mode). So, the drop-in replacement will fully charge without overcharging, but will not fully discharge, giving you approximately 85-90% of total available capacity(with some durability bonuses). Fancy curves don't matter, cause most UPSes don't even care about charging stages(no pre-charge, no trickle), just the good-ole CC->CV. So, the only issue on fancy UPSes with active monitoring is properly reading battery status in-between. Won't really affect the ultimate goal of having adequate uninterrupted power, as far as I can tell.
And I also forgot about another bonus - most AGMs are rated only for 250-300 full discharge cycles, while LiFePO4 can easily handle over 1000. Given the nuance mentioned above (85-90% discharge) you may actually get closer to 2000 cycles.
But that's just the ghetto-rigged solution of old UPS and new Li battery. There are UPSes for this chemistry that don't cost an arm and a leg, and the price will only go down once SLAB/AGM gets slowly phased out. I'm eyeing that local manufacturer I've mentioned earlier, and they've got a new 1500VA UPS model with 50Ah external battery for around $300. Looks like the cut-down version of their entry-level MPPT unit with solar part slashed.

3 years is my replacement window, seldom have a failure before then...

Your replacement window and manufacturer warranty are two different things. Though, some AGMs do have a 36mo coverage.

 

[SN2716057]

I have an APC UPS BR1500G-GR 1500VA for my main driver (see signature) and monitor, and an Eaton 3S550D for my Synology NAS and switch.

The Eaton is the cheaper one because it has a smaller battery, and has 3 schuko connectors for battery and 3 for surge protection. It doesn't have a display nor pass-through for ethernet.
I've setup the NAS to turn-off if the ups switches to battery and stays there for 20 minutes (I've already encountered 2 outages, they both were longer than 30 minutes). Once the power is restored the NAS will restart automatically.

The APC is much more expensive but has a nice display, and you could attach more batteries (3), it is also rated for higher equipment. It also has 3 schuko for surge and battery protection, and 3 for only surge protection. But it does have a display, however it's bright like a night light It does have pass-through for RJ11 and RJ45.

I can definitely recommend an UPS for your NAS, and if I had to choose between the two I would recommend the APC as it has more connectors, does self-tests, and has an easier way to replace the battery. The price is steep but it's worth the memories

 

[sepheronx]

I bought some APC branded UPS' from Costco. 900W for something like $150 CAD. Not bad actually. Use em for my main rig and nas.

 

[R-T-B]

There are UPSes for this chemistry that don't cost an arm and a leg

That may indeed change things. I have not seen one linked yet.

As for the "ghettorigged" solution, my claims come straight from a LiFePO4 manufacturer who weighed in on Amazon Q&A (ExpertPower). You can find their full in depth explanation on why it won't work well there on their standard 10ah battery page, I am sure. Many other manufacturers (Dakota etc) have explained similar.

Your replacement window and manufacturer warranty are two different things.

Indeed they are. I don't really consider warranty at all as most amazon batteries are too heavy to make a AGM SLA warranty claim economical anyways.

Regarding my previous post, I just discovered Eaton has aquired Tripp Lite in whole.... wow, did not see that one coming.

 

[Shrek]

Well, even if one is reduced to 80% of the capacity, that's not bad given the capacity is higher anyhow.

For me the issue is one of power, the UPS can't be used at full power and for some people that might be an issue.