Want to learn about CONFIG_xyz_FUSES

[loci8]

Hello Forum!

Because I don't want to bother you with dumb questions, I first want to learn about some details in GraficCardBIOS & -Config.
For example, like in Threads like this (http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=18442) a member asks for "is my card 16 pipe hackable?", he posts the CONFIG_xyz_FUSES-Numbers and then a wise guy answers that his card is not unlockable.

My Question is, is there a source of Information which FUSES-Numbers says what?
If so, please post a link or something else, I haven't found something appropriate even using the board-Search but maybe I searched not good enough.

Thank you in Advance,
Bye, loci8.

 

[dolf]

Hello Forum!

Because I don't want to bother you with dumb questions, I first want to learn about some details in GraficCardBIOS & -Config.
For example, like in Threads like this (http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=18442) a member asks for "is my card 16 pipe hackable?", he posts the CONFIG_xyz_FUSES-Numbers and then a wise guy answers that his card is not unlockable.

My Question is, is there a source of Information which FUSES-Numbers says what?
If so, please post a link or something else, I haven't found something appropriate even using the board-Search but maybe I searched not good enough.

Thank you in Advance,
Bye, loci8.

Unfortunately such source doesn't exist and all we know about the fuses is based on experience .

 

[loci8]

OK, I think there are some rules at least for parts of the fuse's hex-numbers.

For example in the big " X800 fuses data for unlocking"-Thread somebody posts the exactly same numbers like my card, and you, dolf, mean its not possible to get more pipes:

Heres what my fuses data say:

Config_Die_Fuses 0xFFFF3FFF
Config_Substrate_Fuses 0xFFFFFF9D
Config_Rom_Fuses 0x862
GB_Pipe_Select 0x31344

Anything i can do with this?

your core seems to be R480 and the fuses shows that only 8 pipes are possible.

(The Core is definitly R480, Rams are 2.0ns. Card was bought in Austria, Europe in autumn 2005.)

Please tell me the secret, why do you say its nothing possible there?
In which of the four lines and how do you see that?


------------
What would happen if I flash my card with a 16pipe-modded Bios from your bios-collection?
Nothing or would it stop the card from operating?
Or would the Windows-Screen operate OK like before (2D) and only when starting a game the crash would happen because using the 3D-part of the GPU?

Sorry if this are dumb beginner-questions!

 

[dolf]

OK, I think there are some rules at least for parts of the fuse's hex-numbers.

For example in the big " X800 fuses data for unlocking"-Thread somebody posts the exactly same numbers like my card, and you, dolf, mean its not possible to get more pipes:





(The Core is definitly R480, Rams are 2.0ns. Card was bought in Austria, Europe in autumn 2005.)

Please tell me the secret, why do you say its nothing possible there?
In which of the four lines and how do you see that?


------------
What would happen if I flash my card with a 16pipe-modded Bios from your bios-collection?
Nothing or would it stop the card from operating?
Or would the Windows-Screen operate OK like before (2D) and only when starting a game the crash would happen because using the 3D-part of the GPU?

Sorry if this are dumb beginner-questions!

It is a long story and unfortunately I don't like the long stories but yet here you a short explanation:

"Heres what my fuses data say:

Config_Die_Fuses 0xFFFF3FFF
Config_Substrate_Fuses 0xFFFFFF9D
Config_Rom_Fuses 0x862
GB_Pipe_Select 0x31344"

Config_Die_Fuses 0xFFFF3FFF (R420 and R423 have different matrix 0xEFF7FFFF or 0xFFF7FFFF plus different GB_Pipe_Select). 0xFFFFXFFF it is typical for R430, R480 and R481. Only the overclock can separate R430 from R480. R420/R423 0xE(F)FFXYFFF, Y (X) (16 bit code) gives the number of the working pipes .

Config_Substrate_Fuses 0xFFFFFF9D - On R420/R423 means that if Config_Die_Fuses are correct for 16 pipes but the last digit is not F = laser cut should be connected and the result will be 16 pipes. The correct connection can be controlled by the last digit which becomes F.

Config_Rom_Fuses 0x862 shows the number of the locked quads (pipes) on BIOS level 0x862 - means 2 quads locked. It also gives which exactly quads are closed.

It also shows how many and which pipes are locked and it is combination between the hardware values (core register) and software (BIOS).

It was too long for me . Hope that now it is a bit more clear for you .

 

[loci8]

Thank you very much, now it's more clear than before but allow me the ask one more time.

Let me "connect" all your infos concerning the given Hex-Codes, please correct the wrong thoughts:

Config_Die_Fuses 0xFFFF3FFF
GB_Pipe_Select 0x31344"
--> This is R430/480 but with "unknown" working pipes because you said: "R420/R423 0xE(F)FFXFFFF, X (16 bit code) gives the number of the working pipes".

Config_Substrate_Fuses 0xFFFFFF9D
--> Same here, your Infos ("On R420/R423 means that if Config_Die_Fuses are correct for 16 pipes but the last digit is not F...") reference not on R480, so we don't know if connecting the laser cuts (if there are some on R480) would give 16 pipes.

Config_Rom_Fuses 0x862
--> 2 quads are locked and that this value 0x862 is a combination from core registers (do you mean the above registers?) and bios, ok.

General Question: Are closing the laser cuts (if there are some) AND flashing a 16pipe-Bios the only requirements for success?
Or is there another reason for not getting 16 pipes (excluding REAL dead pipes on the silicium)?

 

[lemonadesoda]

loci8... I'm jumping in here to help all parties. The facts vs. questions in your last post is not clear . If you can, please edit it and correct/simplify what you are trying to STATE AS FACT, when you MAKE AN ASSERTION, and when you are asking QUESTIONS. I'm a native english speaker and to be honest, I don't understand what you are trying to state vs. ask.

for example;

1./ This is R430/480 but with "unknown" working pipes because you said: "R420/R423 0xE(F)FFXFFFF, X (16 bit code) gives the number of the working pipes

I think what you mean to say is:-
FACT: I have a R480 core
FACT: On a R420 core, the 4th nibble of config_die_fuses "3" indicates there are 2 pipe quads enabled.
QUESTION: Can I assume this rule is also true for a R480 core?
ASSERTION: Therefore, my R480 has only 2 pipe quads enables on die. And that means I cannot do any "unlocking".

You don't have to write it like I did, with the "FACT","QUESTION" etc, but the way you have currently phrased your ONE sentence that contains both facts, assertions and questions, is just mumbo-jumbo. Can you edit or rewrite your post so that Dolf and others can help without guesswork or the need to employ Sherlock Holmes? We like helping, but prefer not having to do linguistic detective work! Thanks.

Let me add:
1./ Config_Die_Fuses you cannot change. It is part of the silicon and is fixed.
2./ Config_Substrate_Fuses you can change some. If there was a laser cut... it can be re-connected
3./ Config_Rom_Fuses you can change all. It is something set in BIOS and is a piece-of-cake to hack and reflash.

 

[dolf]

Thank you very much, now it's more clear than before but allow me the ask one more time.

Let me "connect" all your infos concerning the given Hex-Codes, please correct the wrong thoughts:

Config_Die_Fuses 0xFFFF3FFF
GB_Pipe_Select 0x31344"
--> This is R430/480 but with "unknown" working pipes because you said: "R420/R423 0xE(F)FFXFFFF, X (16 bit code) gives the number of the working pipes".

Config_Substrate_Fuses 0xFFFFFF9D
--> Same here, your Infos ("On R420/R423 means that if Config_Die_Fuses are correct for 16 pipes but the last digit is not F...") reference not on R480, so we don't know if connecting the laser cuts (if there are some on R480) would give 16 pipes.

Config_Rom_Fuses 0x862
--> 2 quads are locked and that this value 0x862 is a combination from core registers (do you mean the above registers?) and bios, ok.

General Question: Are closing the laser cuts (if there are some) AND flashing a 16pipe-Bios the only requirements for success?
Or is there another reason for not getting 16 pipes (excluding REAL dead pipes on the silicium)?

Config_Die_Fuses 0xFFFF3FFF - This is the most important information which shows the pipe "capability" on hardware level. Tallking about R430/R480 (only these cores can have such fuses) 3 - means 2 working pipe quads and nothing more. (pipe quad 1 and 2 can dive you amount of 3 no other combination)

The values are showing how many pipe quads are enabled
F => 1111
7 => 0111
B => 1011
D => 1101
E => 1110
3 => 0011
5 => 0101
6 => 0110
9 => 1001
A => 1010
C => 1100

Meanwhile I am also not a native english speaking (and I have never been in english speaking country but I am trying ... ).

Good luck

 

[loci8]

@Dolf: Thank you again, now the Infos are complete.
Maybe you have some time and write the facts around the fuses in a little sticky guide so that others can find this infos comfortably and fast.
On the other hand one finds now the infos with using the board-search-function.

 

[loci8]

@lemonadesoda: Thank you too, but in another direction. Your very direct words are good to know, because usually a non-native english speaker practically NEVER gets this kind of feedback and so the people outside GB+USA have no chance to learn understandable english.

But to say it clear, that has NOTHING to do with Habsburg&Hungary, instead it comes from the possibility in the german language, to produce really long sentences with compound nouns. In german it makes 100% sense, in english apparently not
A example is "Donaudampfschiffkapitänskajütentüre". This is _one_ (even shortened) word and if I try to translate it in englisch it is a whole sentence: "the door of the captains chamber on a steam ship on the danube".
English and german may have their origins in the world of the ancient romans, but today they are two total different planets
Regarding learning at school: Maybe it's the same method all over the world in learning a foreign language. One learns to ask for a train station or how to buy foods on the market. The rest of the language has to come in the real life but who has the money to travel two years to USA or GB? Therefore we not-US+GB-people "try" to talk in the internet, thats a cheaper journey

I read nearly everyday english in the net, but honestly the last time i have written more than a sentence in english was around millenium. This was a large lab report on a matter of materials science, written with a partner and we worked hard for a "perfect" english - what we thought it is. Exceptionally a native speaker read it before giving the report to the professor and he said it was every time clear what we meant but sometimes he rolled on the floor, laughing (ROFL live). After that we write all the remaining lab reports in this course in german ...
Another story: One day another partner and I should write a kind of manual for a german special software in microelectronics that non-germans can understand and use it. We showed the "boss" (a german but with knowledge in writing english scientific texts) our first draft and he meant that sounds "too german". And then he said some sentences of wisdom how a german can write good english texts: "If the english text sounds ugly in your german ears, you are on the right way, but only if the text sounds really strange and horrible, then it is perfect technical english."
The man said true words, reading some thousand pages of IEEE-standards over the last years have proven his words page for page ;-)

--------
But next time I post something on techpowerup-forum I will read it twice if it sounds "english" in my german ears. Practice makes perfect

 

[lemonadesoda]

hehe loci8. Nice story. Material science engineer? Smart guy!

P.S. Your English is very good. In fact, better than some English people. But keep the tips in mind! It will help you when speaking and writing. The "techno babble" of some IEEE documents is embarrassing. I would say that >50% of written documents show bad English style. And it doesn't help foreigners to learn the language!

P.S.S. This will make you laugh. I had a job to "translate" some English documents into English! Yes! English to English. The documents were very technical, and quite badly written, so I had to produce a training manual in a more straightforward and accessible English. The writers? The FDA. The audience? German lab technicians!

P.S.S.S. Isn't Donaudampfschiffahrtselektrizitätenhauptbetriebswerkbauunterbeamtengessellschaft a working-mens club in Vienna? Those austrians! What silly words!

I think I could get pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanokoniosis just trying to say that word!

 

[dolf]

@Dolf: Thank you again, now the Infos are complete.
Maybe you have some time and write the facts around the fuses in a little sticky guide so that others can find this infos comfortably and fast.
On the other hand one finds now the infos with using the board-search-function.

Yes it was planned but I can't find time to write it. Meanwhile X800/X850's become so old that it is useless to write such material .

 

[loci8]

@dolf: OK, so this thread serves as mini-mini-mini-guide for this prehistoric issue with the dusty X8x0-based cards

@lemonadesoda: Material science engineer only some months, then back to my real affinity, embedded systems, programming algorithms for microcontrollers and things like that. But it drifted finally into chipdesign, Verilog/VHDL etc, but i'm not yet very firm in this topic.

Thanks for the compliment for my english, i will try to get better. In case of vocabulary http://dict.leo.org/ is very helpful, but unfortunately there are very often 20 or more possible translations for one word, just try "betreffend" for a german word and be astonished how many english counterparts you get. And then you have the spoilt for choice which one to take
Especially for phrases, like "Qual der Wahl" which was translated in "to be spoilt for choice".

Regarding the writing quality of IEEE-papers I am very amused that we have the same opinion
I think your job in translating from english to english can be applied on many many many technical english texts. Where has the time gone as real literates wrote manuals ...

Your variant of the "Donaudampfschiff..." I don't know, but in Austria nearly all is possible
What do you mean with "working-mens club", a restaurant or a labor union?
Producing "silly" words (from your point of view) is one of the loveliest hobbies in the whole german language area (A,BRD,CH). Unfortunately the last "Rechtschreibreform" ("spelling reform" should be suitable) canceled some word-compound rules, so, for example, former "instandsetzen" (to repair a thing) became to "in Stand setzen". Then loud protests lead to a reform of the reform, in the meantime there is a reform of the reform's reform. Now "instandsetzen" and "in Stand setzen" are allowed to exist side by side. Believe me, the members of the reform council are very ill-brained people with too much time, typically functionaries. One can think now, do the german-speaking countries have no other problems ... maybe not ;-)

French people overdo much more than germans, but in another way. They let no english words in their language usage and look for original french words for this "intruder" even if no good translations exists. Example: The computer is called computer everywhere in the world, but not in all countries, in France it is "ordinateur". THIS is really very ill, but Donaudampfschifffahrtsgesellschaft only a little bit ;-))))

 

[dolf]

loci8, the infos about fuse values aren't complete but some day I will start / finish my guide about that. I am technical guy (engineer) not philosopher, poet or writer. Can you imagine if I start to write here in Bulgarian for instance because it is my native language . I dont know German but I can manage to understand something in German (all my colleagues do and the translation is not problem.......). But for those with only one language (even most popular all over the world) it will be hard very hard .