What's the point of eSATA?

Bill_Bright · Dec 1, 2016

cdawall said:
It is really rare I see a USB storage device that isn't dead and wont connect.

lol I don't think that is what you really meant to say. Or is it?

But to that, once you get past the USB interface and to the actual drive, the parts are the same. While there are not as many eSATA connected devices, I cannot recall ever seeing a post where a poster complained his eSATA external drive failed to connect.

rtwjunkie · Dec 1, 2016

cdawall said:
It is really rare I see a USB storage device that isn't dead and wont connect. Yes the controllers die, but that has nothing to do with it being USB, it's an interface card, interface cards die.

I can anecdotally support Bill on this. I've never encountered an eSATA device not be recognized. USB 3.0 on the other hand? Much less reliable than eSATA and USB 2.0. It's a quite common thing I see. This, I try to set people up with eSATA whenever possible.

cdawall · Dec 1, 2016

rtwjunkie said:
I can anecdotally support Bill on this. I've never encountered an eSATA device not be recognized. USB 3.0 on the other hand? Much less reliable than eSATA and USB 2.0. It's a quite common thing I see. This, I try to set people up with eSATA whenever possible.

I mean the only time I really see them not connect is when either the drive itself is dead, or the interface card is bad. Every once in a blue moon I have seen a weird it only works when connected to a MAC/Linux machine, but normally that is a data corruption/failing drive issue.

francisw19 · Dec 1, 2016

rtwjunkie said:
Why would you knowingly choose a slower speed, which USB 3.0 is? Both need external power for external drives. I will take an eSATA connection any day of the week.

For me, it was a change in boards that pushed the switch from eSATA to USB3.0...just a different feature set with the new one. That said, for external drive use, USB 3.0 wasn't any slower really. It served it's purpose well and if I didn't have an external drive connected, it worked well as just another USB port for something else.

Bill_Bright · Dec 1, 2016

cdawall said:
or the interface card is bad.

What interface card are you talking about? The USB to SATA card used in the enclosure? Or the drive's own interface?

If the drive's own interface, then it seems to me they would be failing at the same percentage rate regardless if connected directly via SATA, USB (any version) or eSATA. But internal SATA drives rarely die due to the interface card. And again, I don't recall ever hearing of eSATA connectivity issues. So that leaves the USB to SATA interface which backs up my point - USB is woefully inconsistent for external storage devices.

cdawall · Dec 1, 2016

Bill_Bright said:
What interface card are you talking about? The USB to SATA card used in the enclosure? Or the drive's own interface?

If the drive's own interface, then it seems to me they would be failing at the same percentage rate regardless if connected directly via SATA, USB (any version) or eSATA. But internal SATA drives rarely die due to the interface card. And again, I don't recall ever hearing of eSATA connectivity issues. So that leaves the USB to SATA interface which backs up my point - USB is woefully inconsistent for external storage devices.

The USB to SATA. Converters will always be an additional fail point that being said I will take a drive with a converter happily. It means when idiot 1 breaks the USB port you just pull the drive and plop it in a new external and move on. eSATA does the same, but those aren't anything more than a plug converter. The reason you don't see connectivity issues with eSATA is it is just a passive SATA card. That is a bit different from an active USB to SATA, also remember WD loves their direct to USB crap drives. I see those dead more than every other external combined.

I will care about eSATA when the drives actually exist. Even the enclosures are rare.

Bill_Bright · Dec 1, 2016

cdawall said:
It means when idiot 1 breaks the USB port

That's unfair and condescending. These devices fail through no action of the user (novice or expert).

cdawall said:
Even the enclosures are rare.

Yeah, with only more than 600 at Amazon to choose from, they clearly are rare! :rolleyes:

dorsetknob · Dec 1, 2016

Bill_Bright said:
Yeah, with only more than 600 at Amazon to choose from, they clearly are rare!

Got a SATA/IDE docking Station with E-SATA port + USB from ~~Amazon~~ Ebay Oh yeh thats another buying source

Beastie · Dec 1, 2016

In my experience USB is more reliable than its reputation might indicate.

There are plenty of unreliable USB devices sure, but is that the fault of the USB protocols and interface designs?

cdawall · Dec 1, 2016

Bill_Bright said:
That's unfair and condescending. These devices fail through no action of the user (novice or expert).

Life is unfair, that doesn't make the vast majority of port failures any less user related. It isn't a worksmanship issue when a person snaps the end off of the enclosure.

Bill_Bright said:
Yeah, with only more than 600 at Amazon to choose from, they clearly are rare!

Cool I can also buy a "USB to HDMI cable" on amazon/ebay. Lets check local retailers.

There are 10 available at fry's (mix of bare enclosures and gdrives)

http://www.frys.com/search?sqxts=1&...69566-69562-69552&site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

and 13 at microcenter

http://www.microcenter.com/search/s...tk=all&sortby=match&N=4294966859&myStore=true

There are 0 available from walmart/target in store. They have plenty of USB ones though. I would call them somewhat rare, especially now that USB 3.0 can handle the bandwidth of basically any mechanical drive.

Oh and just for reference, the generic sort on amazon doesn't filter all too well.

That dock lacks something. Can't quite put my finger on what though.

One more little tidbit on how useless it really is. Remember when they stopped putting it on laptops and desktops because no one uses it?

erocker · Dec 1, 2016

The poimt to eSATA has become less and less. Other better options now. Worked well for me for years though with a powered eSATA dock.

Bill_Bright · Dec 1, 2016

cdawall said:
Life is unfair, that doesn't make the vast majority of port failures any less user related. It isn't a worksmanship issue when a person snaps the end off of the enclosure.

That does not make those users idiots either. But to that, I don't agree at all that the vast majority of port failures are due to people snapping or mishandling anything.

But those that are physically broken, I agree it would not be a workmanship problem, but it sure could be a design problem.

cdawall said:
There are 0 available from walmart/target in store.

Yeah right.

Walmart

Okay, you got me with Target, but you use them as your measure of computer parts availability??? If so, I guess motherboards are rare items too. And CPUs and graphics cards too. :rolleyes:

But Target does have a eSATA router!

Are eSATA enclosures less common? Yes. But rare? No.

Vario · Dec 1, 2016

eSATA worked really well for me about 8 years ago when I used an external 3.5 mechanical drive. Fast and reliable. I switched to usb thumb drives for the smaller stuff and a naked mechanical drive that I run on internal SATA for backups and leave outside the machine the rest of the time.

cdawall · Dec 1, 2016

Bill_Bright said:
Yeah right.

Walmart

IN STORE I specifically said that too. Walmart online I can order a 6700K as well...

sneekypeet · Dec 1, 2016

Who really cares what it "was" for when thunderbolt pretty much makes it obsolete these days!

slozomby · Dec 1, 2016

cdawall said:
IN STORE I specifically said that too. Walmart online I can order a 6700K as well...

bah buy the 18 core xeon they sell
https://www.walmart.com/ip/XEON-E5-2697-V4-LGA2011-3-2.3G-45MB-18C-145W-CPU-BROADWELL/199357167

dorsetknob · Dec 1, 2016

slozomby said:
bah buy the 18 core xeon they sell
https://www.walmart.com/ip/XEON-E5-2697-V4-LGA2011-3-2.3G-45MB-18C-145W-CPU-BROADWELL/199357167

Oh o.................

Product Name: Xeon Octadeca-core E5-2697 v4 2.3GHz Server Processor

rtwjunkie · Dec 1, 2016

sneekypeet said:
Who really cares what it "was" for when thunderbolt pretty much makes it obsolete these days!

Except your point is even less relevant and used than eSATA. How often do you hear from or about someone using Thunderbolt?

At least There are still quite a lot of people among us using eSATA. So no, not really a "was" as long as eSATA enclosures continue to be made and sold.

newtekie1 · Dec 1, 2016

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816111489

I have 3 of those. That is what I use eSATA for.

sneekypeet · Dec 1, 2016

rtwjunkie said:
Except your point is even less relevant and used than eSATA. How often do you hear from or about someone using Thunderbolt?

At least There are still quite a lot of people among us using eSATA. So no, not really a "was" as long as eSATA enclosures continue to be made and sold.

Just because you have not looked for them does not mean they do not exist. Take a trip to newegg and search thunderbolt drives! Also look at the specs of thunderbolt 3 while you are at it, speed, power, everything you really want has advanced well beyond what eSATA is capable of. The world still sells PS2 mice and keyboards too, but I would hazard to guess unless needing them for a KVM or other very specific need, most would never buy them, does not mean USB devices did not kill their sales! I hear about someone using thunderbolt quite a bit actually, but it has to do with the company I keep too.

cdawall · Dec 1, 2016

sneekypeet said:
Just because you have not looked for them does not mean they do not exist. Take a trip to newegg and search thunderbolt drives! Also look at the specs of thunderbolt 3 while you are at it, speed, power, everything you really want has advanced well beyond what eSATA is capable of. The world still sells PS2 mice and keyboards too, but I would hazard to guess unless needing them for a KVM or other very specific need, most would never buy them, does not mean USB devices did not kill their sales! I hear about someone using thunderbolt quite a bit actually, but it has to do with the company I keep too.

eSATA needs to die, it is worthless. Thunderbolt and nvme...hmmm well which would I prefer.

rtwjunkie · Dec 1, 2016

cdawall said:
eSATA needs to die, it is worthless.

Why, Sir? Because you said so. Mmmkay.

Aquinus · Dec 2, 2016

cdawall said:
Remember that when eSATA came out USB3.0 didn't exist

People need to remember this. eSATA as far as I'm concerned is dead but, there was a time when this was needed but, eSATA isn't what I would call a "universal," connector for different kinds of devices like USB is which is why USB 3.0 easily would become a better option after it was released due to how many different kinds of new and legacy devices you can connect to it.

nomdeplume · Dec 2, 2016

Possibly already covered but eSATA was a PC business protocol with limited consumer benefit, read; support. It's counterpart firewire, and now thunderbolt, being the Mac business protocols with somewhat less limited consumer benefit. If only because they exist in an ecosystem that can't afford to alienate the two clients (business and personal) into separate planetary structures.

In short, the business world is very drab and it was the rare new idea with long enough life span to be implemented.

cdawall · Dec 2, 2016

rtwjunkie said:
Why, Sir? Because you said so. Mmmkay.

Same reason SATA needs to. It has been superseded by things that are substantially better. The inability to process more than one command at a time in the year 2016 is a bit embarrassing hence why even slow NVME drives offer better performance than the best SATA drive on the market.

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What's the point of eSATA?

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