Why AMD is not better than Intel, an introspective look from an AMD fanboy.

[Space Lynx]

DRC Congo. 2/3 women raped since the mineral Coltan became a hot item (used in all PC's, smartphones, cpu procressors, etc etc etc). Warlords and unspeakable horrors. Where 70-80% of the worlds Coltan mineral come from? Congo.

AMD has never announced their source of Coltan. Yet, every Intel page has it listed for many many years now, that it is Congo free... yet we love to hate on Intel for being the greedy capitalist sucking us dry, and ok maybe that is a fair argument... but then again, which do I value more, predictable milking capitalists, or support warlords who commit things my nightmares are not even capable of reproducing all so I can have a smart phone, a wind powered and solar panel lithium based grid system.... all in the name of progress... Intel said no... AMD declined to comment... this is why I still have respect for Intel, even though I have been an AMD fanboy all my life since they let me game on a budget even 18 years ago.

@W1zzard I feel like this was never addressed in our niche community. Just thought I would share, I wrote a paper on it in 2011, and sadly it is still a problem to this day. If you do not want this discussion here, feel free to delete the thread. I just thought it deserved a mention and a lighthearted, hopefully, discussion.

 

[StrayKAT]

I think Intel will behave better, now that they have competition again. It's a bad thing when you're basically the only game in town.. bad not just for everyone else, but your own company too. If it doesn't get corrupted by monopoly, then it at least might stagnate.

 

[Bones]

Hate to say it but I don't believe there can be anything light hearted about the subject matter you brought up, esp since things like Warlords, rape and so on were brought up as part of it.

If the topic continues, let's at least keep our heads screwed on straight instead of knee-jerking replies.
Just sayin.

 

[Space Lynx]

Hate to say it but I don't believe there can be anything light hearted about the subject matter you brought up, esp since things like Warlords, rape and so on were brought up as part of it.

If the topic continues, let's at least keep our heads screwed on straight instead of knee-jerking replies.
Just sayin.

Yeah, I just wasn't sure how to word it. My point is I think this is an important topic since it directly relates to our hobby, whether you are a workstation guy or a gaming guy... :/

I'm just trying to defend Intel a little bit is all, monopolies and such are predictable in their behavior.

 

[robot zombie]

I, for one, had no idea. So Im glad to see this here. Something I'll be looking into for sure... ...you dont always think about where the stuff you buy really comes from.

 

[StrayKAT]

Another reason I like Intel right now is they have a whole package I make use of (Optane memory and drives). It's kind of the same reason I use a Vega, funnily.. because the whole package of Radeon/Freesync. It's also why I don't jump ship from Windows to Mac or Linux.. their whole package is just better to me.

I could also weigh products in isolation (I think most do this instead), and find things just as good or better.. but that's where I'm at for the moment.

 

[R0H1T]

The issue you brought up, can you for instance remember the crippling subsidies that nearly drove AMD into bankruptcy? Can you count the number of jobs lost due to Intel's direct & abusive monopolistic behaviour? I will say this ~ there are no saints in the corporate world, in fact there's more blood on the hands of greedy individuals/corporations than some individual countries. Why do I bring this up ~ because if AMD is tacitly/indirectly aiding the "warlords" then they should face the consequences, especially if the situation was avoidable. However I've never liked Intel & I can't condone their practices, no matter what they've seemingly done to make sure they use conflict free resources in their products. The latter cannot excuse their attempt at driving AMD out of business or the thousands of jobs lost, directly or indirectly due to their greed.

 

[RejZoR]

AMD doesn't have own fabs unlike Intel so you can't blame them for rapes in some 3rd world country because of some mineral. They rely on 3rd party foundries. Complain over them.

 

[StrayKAT]

The issue you brought you up, can you for instance remember the crippling subsidies that nearly drove AMD into bankruptcy? Can you count the number of jobs lost due to Intel's direct & abusive monopolistic behaviour? I will say this ~ there are no saints in the corporate world, in fact there's more blood on the hands of greedy individuals/corporations than some individual countries. Why do I bring this up ~ because if AMD is tacitly/indirectly aiding the "warlords" then they should face the consequences, especially if the situation was avoidable. However I've never liked Intel & I can't condone their practices, no matter what they've seemingly done to make sure they use conflict free resources in their products. The latter cannot excuse their attempt at driving AMD out of business or the thousands of jobs lost, directly or indirectly due to their greed.

AMD started as a humble clone manufacturer. It's amazing that they're as successful as they are. The rest are dead. Not sure why it's Intel's fault they're not huge.. even without crappy business practices. Intel is practically a household name, after MS/Apple/IBM/etc. It's difficult to compete just on that alone.

 

[R0H1T]

AMD started as a humble clone manufacturer. It's amazing that they're as successful as they are. The rest are dead. Not sure why it's Intel's fault.. even without crappy business practices, they're practically a household name, after MS/Apple/IBM/etc.

Do you think a bleeding company, not talking about AMD in particular, can afford more expensive alternatives? I'm assuming conflict free resources are at least marginally expensive, Intel got into a position where they can afford anything even if only for PR. Not everyone has that option, again not about AMD but we don't know where AMD's sourcing their stuff from.

As someone operating a small business I can unequivocally say that such choices aren't as straightforward as you think, you first have to be in a position where you can "afford" better alternatives. It's easy to say do this or do that ~ but when it's your life & your entire family's lives on the line, most people will choose the easier option.

To answer the bolded ~ it's a number of reasons, including AMD's own incompetence, but Intel's role (past or present) cannot be overstated.

 

[Vya Domus]

AMD are not manufacturing their own silicon. Intel can list that they are "Congo-free" or whatever because they have their own foundry and direct control over their supply chain.

This thread has to be a joke.

 

[Space Lynx]

The issue you brought up, can you for instance remember the crippling subsidies that nearly drove AMD into bankruptcy? Can you count the number of jobs lost due to Intel's direct & abusive monopolistic behaviour? I will say this ~ there are no saints in the corporate world, in fact there's more blood on the hands of greedy individuals/corporations than some individual countries. Why do I bring this up ~ because if AMD is tacitly/indirectly aiding the "warlords" then they should face the consequences, especially if the situation was avoidable. However I've never liked Intel & I can't condone their practices, no matter what they've seemingly done to make sure they use conflict free resources in their products. The latter cannot excuse their attempt at driving AMD out of business or the thousands of jobs lost, directly or indirectly due to their greed.

I understand your argument, and that is part of a healthy discussion on this topic. It does not change the fact this topic exists, and none of us are right in our opinions one way or the other, I simply thought this issue deserved more awareness.

AMD are not manufacturing their own silicon. Intel can list that they are "Congo-free" or whatever because they have their own foundry.

This thread has to be a joke.

That is irrelevant, Intel was proactive in making sure their sources were clean and creating awareness of the issue.

AMD even if they don't have their own foundry, could have forced or used pressure on the foundry they used to get answers, unless AMD believed that cheapest product is best product for consumer no matter what, maybe Intel has to be more expensive because of the way they source minerals from more expensive sources? You don't have the answer and neither do I.

 

[Deleted member 50521]

Defaq is this? Who cares? Welcome to real world.

 

[eidairaman1]

I understand your argument, and that is part of a healthy discussion on this topic. It does not change the fact this topic exists, and none of us are right in our opinions one way or the other, I simply thought this issue deserved more awareness.



That is irrelevant, Intel was proactive in making sure their sources were clean and creating awareness of the issue.

AMD even if they don't have their own foundry, could have forced or used pressure on the foundry they used to get answers, unless AMD believed that cheapest product is best product for consumer no matter what, maybe Intel has to be more expensive because of the way they source minerals from more expensive sources? You don't have the answer and neither do I.

Intel have it share of shady deals for years...

 

[Vya Domus]

AMD even if they don't have their own foundry, could have forced or used pressure on the foundry they used to get answers

I am sorry to burst your bubble but AMD would very much like to stay in business and focus on creating products rather than screw around with morals with regards to what their suppliers are doing.

If you are pissed about this matter aim it at the ones responsible for it : TSMC and Globalfoundries whose customers aren't just AMD but Nvidia, Qualcomm, Apple and God only knows how many dozen others. Or, if we are not to beat around the bush like we always like to, aim your anger at the countries that allows for this to happen.

Your complaint genuinely boggles my mind.

 

[eidairaman1]

I am sorry to burst your bubble but AMD would very much like to stay in business and focus on creating products rather than screw around with morals with regards to what their suppliers are doing.

If you are pissed about this matter aim it at the ones responsible for it : TSMC and Globalfoundries whose customers aren't just AMD but Nvidia, Qualcomm, Apple and God only knows how many dozen others. Or, if we are not to beat around the bush like we always like to, aim your anger at the countries that allows for this to happen.

Your complaint genuinely boggles my mind.

He should complain about foxconn too.

If anything thread should be locked.

/thread

 

[Space Lynx]

I am sorry to burst your bubble but AMD would very much like to stay in business and focus on creating products rather than screw around with morals with regards to what their suppliers are doing.

If you are pissed about this matter aim it at the ones responsible for it : TSMC and Globalfoundries whose customers aren't just AMD but Nvidia, Qualcomm, Apple and God only knows how many dozen others. Or, if we are not to beat around the bush like we always like to, aim your anger at the countries that allows for this to happen.

Your complaint genuinely boggles my mind.

I don't buy products from any of those companies. We live in a globalist market... you vote with your wallet... and I buy Intel because of my research on the issue... sorry for being educated... enjoy your progress at the sake of anything...

Intel have it share of shady deals for years...

I'm not sure the displacement of millions of people qualifies as comparison...

I should have known better than to try have any positive discourse on this toxic website, enjoy your cheap products. peace, I'm out

 

[Vya Domus]

We live in a globalist market... you vote with your wallet... and I buy Intel because of my research on the issue... sorry for being educated... enjoy your progress at the sake of anything...

No, you buy Intel for the same reason you made this mind-numbing post and you are not fooling anyone. Take your fanboyism and trolling somewhere else and spare this forum that has already seen enough of this nonsense.

I should have known better than to try have any positive discourse on this toxic website

You don't get to claim that when you tried to link serious stuff like human exploitation to dumb ass issues like fanboyism. You don't care about any of these issues, don't fool yourself.

 

[R0H1T]

I don't buy products from any of those companies. We live in a globalist market... you vote with your wallet... and I buy Intel because of my research on the issue... sorry for being educated... enjoy your progress at the sake of anything...



I'm not sure the displacement of millions of people qualifies as comparison...

I should have known better than to try have any positive discourse on this toxic website, enjoy your cheap products. peace, I'm out

For what it's worth I do believe that the thread has sound advice for AMD but I don't see it just as a choice between black & white, there's a tonne of grey shades in between. If AMD can avoid these resources, they absolutely should ~ I'd be happy to pay 5~15% more to get that certification. But can AMD afford to do that, I'm sure no one here has an answer to this!

The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong. Likewise ~ choice is a luxury the poor (or weak) cannot possibly afford.

 

[Space Lynx]

For what it's worth I do believe that the thread has sound advice for AMD but I don't see it just as a choice between black & white, there's a tonne of grey shades in between. If AMD can avoid these resources, they absolutely should ~ I'd be happy to pay 5~15% more to get that certification. But can AMD afford to do that, I'm sure no one here has an answer to this!

You make a great point. If its just a part of survival, then I mean yeah that is the way of the world and I totally understand that, a company like Apple though (not to go to far off topic of CPU's only for our niche demographic) can easily afford to be proactive like Intel and at least put pressure to make changes, but they just don't seem to care. That's all I was trying to give Intel credit for, was bringing this to attention through media outpouring (like the neat event with Linustechtips in the video from the first post).

Anyways that was the kind of comment I was hoping to read, thank you. Regardless, we should probably let the topic die now, it was a neat thought was all. Take care everyone.

 

[Vya Domus]

Searched a bit just for the heck of it :

https://www.amd.com/en/corporate-responsibility/supplier-conflict-minerals

How about that. So much for them supporting warlords and unspeakable horrors.

 

[R0H1T]

I hate to bring China (well not really) into this but here they are!

China is Asia’s largest coltan producer and the world’s largest coltan refiner, with at least a third of the world’s coltan being processed there. Many countries export their raw coltan to China for further processing. The UN reports that many tons of coltan from the DRC are processed through China and are often mixed with samples from conflict-free regions to produce tainted coltan that is more difficult to source. This practice undermines the efforts made by countries with legislation restricting conflict materials, such as the United States and Canada. As Western markets have been reducing their demand for conflict coltan, the Chinese market has embraced it with open arms as Chinese firms have begun to carve footholds in the global minerals industry. As a result, the Chinese coltan refining industry has contributed to the perpetuation of human rights violations and environmental destruction in many of the world’s developing regions.

Ensuring clean coltan
It is difficult for manufacturers to ensure that the coltan they use in their products is not from a conflict zone or otherwise unethically produced. Currently there is one process for verifying the origin of a coltan sample. This process, developed in Germany, involves creating an elemental ‘fingerprint’ via WD X-ray fluorescence analysis and X-ray diffraction analysis to determine the composition and amounts of trace elements present in the sample. These results are then compared to the results of samples of known provenance, much like the Kimberly process for diamonds. This technique works for samples of mixed sources as well as pure coltan; however, it requires having sample fingerprints for all original coltan sources on file. Using this technique, it is possible to identify the source of most coltan samples; as of 2010, almost 75% of the world’s coltan mines have samples on file.[41] However, the process is expensive and lengthy and while it has worked in Rwanda, adapting these fingerprinting techniques to the DRC mining industry and convincing countries such as China to adopt these methods has been difficult. Both the United States and Canada have passed legislation that provides incentives for using certified coltan and making conflict materials extralegal, but because most coltan is processed in China and China does not use the certification processes, avoiding conflict coltan has been very difficult.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coltan_mining_and_ethics