Why do we think light travels the same as sound? Some questions for astrophysics folks out there

[lexluthermiester]

@Space Lynx
Don't be sad. 54thVoid was being equal parts silly and being a mod. No worries mate. Religious discussion is against forum rules. We all know you were being silly as well. He likely chimed in because some namdy twat reported your comment to be a jerk.

 

[Space Lynx]

@Space Lynx
Don't be sad. 54thVoid was being equal parts silly and being a mod. No worries mate. Religious discussion is against forum rules. We all know you were being silly as well. He likely chimed in because some namdy twat reported your comment to be a jerk.

Some days I hate that I was born on the Autism spectrum, while I like being able to think in different ways, society is not built for people like me.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Some days I hate that I was born on the Autism spectrum, while I like being able to think in different ways, society is not built for people like me.

Not true at all. Some of the greatest people in history have been people with "issues" similar to yours. You keep being you! You've got friends here. Remember that.

 

[the54thvoid]

Some days I hate that I was born on the Autism spectrum, while I like being able to think in different ways, society is not built for people like me.

Never diagnosed but I'm exceptionally focused on 'things'. My comment had a winky smiley. That's not a hostile action. is it?

Regardless, I figured your comment wasn't serious, but there are those who'll blindly ignore science to suit dogmatic faith (and blind faith is a dangerous weapon). In these science threads, we stick to what can be reasoned with and logically discussed. Pure science asks to be disproved. The word for trying to disprove faith is heresy.

 

[Space Lynx]

Never diagnosed but I'm exceptionally focused on 'things'. My comment had a winky smiley. That's not a hostile action. is it?

Regardless, I figured your comment wasn't serious, but there are those who'll blindly ignore science to suit dogmatic faith (and blind faith is a dangerous weapon). In these science threads, we stick to what can be reasoned with and logically discussed. Pure science asks to be disproved. The word for trying to disprove faith is heresy.

Sorry I did not fully disclaim, my comment was only partially in response to yours. It's a combination of a lot of things why I feel that way lately.

Yes, I agree, even being silly about religion stuff really had no place in this thread, regarding the science stuff, I still think it is worth asking questions that may not make sense or have any merit on the surface, to see where they can take us. I don't regret making this thread, got some new videos to watch now and research some more stuff.

 

[mechtech]

going to watch both of these tonight, thanks!

I don't understand the concept of a void of emptiness in space, for example, if I were to say magically take a planet or the sun, and move them to any void in space you choose, they would immediately bend the fabric their based on their size/gravity - so in fact its not nothing there at all, there is something there and its bending it. maybe these videos will help me though, thank you, watching soon



this is where I am stuck, the rest of your post makes a lot of sense to me. I understand what you mean when you say it doesn't bend, its just those visual images that show the bending based on size that trip me up here, because this indicates even the void itself is not nothing, if it can be manipulated by a larger object, then maybe light uses this "fabric" as a medium? even if we can't see or understand it.

View attachment 313728

Well yes an no. (On gravity affecting light). It takes an incredible amount of gravity to affect light. Something like our earth would be like holding a candle in the Antarctic in winter.

 

[Shrek]

Pound and Rebka measured gravitational time dilation on the Earth in 1959; an amazing achievement.

Also, our GPS system would soon go astray (in a matter of hours) if we did not take into account gravitational time dilation.

 

[mechtech]

Sorry I did not fully disclaim, my comment was only partially in response to yours. It's a combination of a lot of things why I feel that way lately.

Yes, I agree, even being silly about religion stuff really had no place in this thread, regarding the science stuff, I still think it is worth asking questions that may not make sense or have any merit on the surface, to see where they can take us. I don't regret making this thread, got some new videos to watch now and research some more stuff.

Binge watching the doc Fermi Lab??

 

[Space Lynx]

Binge watching the doc Fermi Lab??

this one helped the most, but I am still stuck on the concept of wavelength itself, wavelength or wave is just a word, but outside of the definition of wave or wavelength what is that term's substance? is it just observed in nature and we put a name to it, or do we understand wavelengths at a fundamental level? or is it possible there are layers of the universe we simply don't see or understand yet? I try to imagine the first scientists who figured out radio, the first ones who saw in infrared after understanding its concept, but then actually being able to make a tool to utilize it... I sometimes wonder how many layers we still have to discover, how many lenses with which we see the universe.

 

[Wirko]

this one helped the most, but I am still stuck on the concept of wavelength itself, wavelength or wave is just a word, but outside of the definition of wave or wavelength what is that term's substance? is it just observed in nature and we put a name to it, or do we understand wavelengths at a fundamental level? or is it possible there are layers of the universe we simply don't see or understand yet? I try to imagine the first scientists who figured out radio, the first ones who saw in infrared after understanding its concept, but then actually being able to make a tool to utilize it... I sometimes wonder how many layers we still have to discover, how many lenses with which we see the universe.

Do we know what the "fundamental level" is here, or in other areas of particle physics? (Also, why is a photon roughly the same size as the antenna that emitted it?)

 

[joemama]

wavelength or wave is just a word, but outside of the definition of wave or wavelength what is that term's substance

Are you looking for photons?

 

[Space Lynx]

Are you looking for photons?

i don't know what I am looking for, maybe its an infinite regress problem, what makes the photon? maybe its not an infinite regress problem, but we simply don't understand all of it.

its also a problem of etymology i think, cause i already confused myself + mixed with just not smart enough for this topic I think.

 

[mechtech]

i don't know what I am looking for, maybe its an infinite regress problem, what makes the photon? maybe its not an infinite regress problem, but we simply don't understand all of it.

its also a problem of etymology i think, cause i already confused myself + mixed with just not smart enough for this topic I think.

Well what do you mean when you say light? Visible? Light or visible light is just a small part of the electromagnetic radiation spectrum…..if that’s the correct term. Maybe check the definition of a photon and the definition of the electromagnetic radiation spectrum? Maybe it will help put things into perspective or compartmentalize them?

 

[unwind-protect]

Light doesn't travel in a straight line. It is bent by gravity. The effect is pronounced enough that e.g. GPS receivers have to account for Earth's gravity when judging the incoming satellite signals.

Did anybody ever measure whether the same is true for sound?

 

[A Computer Guy]

Light doesn't travel in a straight line. It is bent by gravity. The effect is pronounced enough that e.g. GPS receivers have to account for Earth's gravity when judging the incoming satellite signals.

Did anybody ever measure whether the same is true for sound?

Since sound can only travel through mass, sound is bent, refracted, diffused, and reflected by changes in density.

 

[Shrek]

i don't know what I am looking for, maybe its an infinite regress problem

Some people wonder if quarks have internal constituents, and if those consituents themselves... but it has to stop as the Heisenberg uncertainty principle says that a confinded particle has energy and so mass (the smaller the confinement the bigger the mass). So if quarks had smaller consituents that would lead to more mass than they actually have.

 

[unwind-protect]

Since sound can only travel through mass sound is bent, refracted, diffused, and reflected by changes in density.

Hmm. A bent medium could still allow straight travel of waves, though.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Some people wonder if quarks have internal constituents, and if those constituents themselves...

The Large Hadron collider has already answered that question and yes quarks are(theoretically) made up of yet smaller particles.

Note edit.

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

This has to be a troll...right. There's no way that this could actually be a question?

Wavelength is easy to explain in light. Let me ask you a simple question...what is the color observed? Yes, it's that simple and stupid. Color, and wavelength, are inherent properties of the energy of a photon which is a measure of how energetic of a reaction created it.

Sound is mechanically generated waves. It moves through different mediums at different speeds because it literally is stuff vibrating against other stuff.

Light is free of mass. If it had mass, it would not be able to travel at the speed of light. It's also tricky, because it behaves and a packet of waves...so both as a particle and as a wave depending upon the situation. This is high school level physics...and the double slit or polarization filters experiments are dead simple ways to explain this behavior.

Light is not a transference of energy, like sound. As such, it doesn't require a medium. If it did the sun would not work, radiative energy transfer would not work, and a near vacuum would be a perfect insulator for everything. You can demonstrate it is not by purchasing one of those fancy coffee cups with a double layer and internal vacuum. It insulates very well, but you can still feel a bit of heat coming from the cup through the vacuum sections on a cold day. Because there's no convection or conduction (relatively speaking) that energy has to be able to transfer somehow...and the third type of heat transfer is radiation.



Final bit...the speed of light and the speed of sound are dependent upon their medium. This is why sound is measured in mach...which is a function of local atmospheric density. Light travels at light speed only in a vacuum...and science has effectively demonstrated a near stop of light in a medium. Believe it or not, science isn't religion or magic. Just because you don't understand it, doesn't mean it's god. If that logic held up the Insane Clown Posse would be more than the butt of jokes.
As an aside...why astrophysicists? I learned about all of this in my basic required high school physics. "We" don't think something so profoundly backwards. You are poorly informed about basic physics, and should try to get a copy of a basic textbook rather than ask "profound" questions that are the definition of basic core curricula things.


Also, God is not behind magnets...if you don't understand, try "how do magnets work" on youtube and be prepared to want to wash your brain out with bleach.

 

[Shrek]

The Large Hadron collider has already answered that question and yes quarks are made up of yet smaller particles.

Quark - Wikipedia
"A quark (/kwɔːrk, kwɑːrk/) is a type of elementary particle"

Elementary particle - Wikipedia
"an elementary particle or fundamental particle is a subatomic particle that is not composed of other particles."

 

[lexluthermiester]

Quark - Wikipedia
"A quark (/kwɔːrk, kwɑːrk/) is a type of elementary particle"

Elementary particle - Wikipedia
"an elementary particle or fundamental particle is a subatomic particle that is not composed of other particles."

And you don't think Quarks are made up of smaller particles? Seriously, what do you think the various colliders built and being built are for? They're not trying to detect Quarks. We've done this, years ago, even decades ago. They're trying to detect ever smaller particles. Such particles have been theorized and are supposed to exist. The problem most people have with trying to understand the way the Universe actually exists is that they are limiting themselves to G&SR. Relativity is flawed. It works for some things, not for all. So to explain the unexplained we have to view the Universe with a lense OTHER than that which doesn't work.

 

[authorized]

So... has LHC actually detected any of those smaller particles, or are they just theoretical?

 

[lexluthermiester]

So... has LHC actually detected any of those smaller particles, or are they just theoretical?

They're still just theoretical as of yet.

 

[AusWolf]

This has to be a troll...right. There's no way that this could actually be a question?

Asking a question with the intention of learning (however trivial it may seem to you) is the exact opposite of trolling, imo.

As an aside...why astrophysicists? I learned about all of this in my basic required high school physics. "We" don't think something so profoundly backwards. You are poorly informed about basic physics, and should try to get a copy of a basic textbook rather than ask "profound" questions that are the definition of basic core curricula things.

I don't know about OP, but I, for example couldn't give a rat's arse about physics or any science during my school years, but I do care now. People change, our interests change, and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[dorsetknob]

Question ? Do Light Photons have Mass

Answer of Course they Do...............

or the working principal of Light Sail's is general proof of this.
Light Photons push Light Sail's ................To Push something physical you need mass
"Newtons law"