Windows 11 22H2 high interrupt to process latency on new 13th Gen Intel build

[Dr. Dro]

Exact same issue my friend, hwinfo reports high frequency limit clocks, but effective clocks are below advertised 3.7ghz LOL. Idk wtf is going on.

Perhaps just with a different degree of severity, I suppose. I kid you not that it's easily amongst the slowest computers I've ever used when I run 11 on it, but under Windows 10 it's so incredibly fast and snappy that it looks like I'm insulting it by using a pedestrian gen 3 NVMe drive on it. Gen 4 one is coming soon.

 

[electronicworld]

Have you tried out setting pci-e lanes manually instead of putting them on auto ? Last resort

https://community.amd.com/t5/proces...-problems-only-happens-with/m-p/598091#M53298 , https://community.amd.com/t5/processors/ryzen-7-7700x-latency-spikes-
causing-audio-drop-outs/m-p/600794#M53571 https://community.amd.com/t5/proces...asus-rog-strix-amd-ryzen-9-5900hx/td-p/561834

Those treads popping like candy, something is obviously off.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Have you tried out setting pci-e lanes manually instead of putting them on auto ? Last resort

Don't think I did. It allows me to select from Gen 1 through 5. I can try intentionally slowing it to gen 3 (I use an RTX 3090), but not at home right now. When I arrive I'll try it and report back.

Edit: Nope, no success there, mate. It's very much the same thing, as I suspected.

 

[LabRat 891]

Have you tried out setting pci-e lanes manually instead of putting them on auto ? Last resort

https://community.amd.com/t5/proces...-problems-only-happens-with/m-p/598091#M53298 , https://community.amd.com/t5/processors/ryzen-7-7700x-latency-spikes-
causing-audio-drop-outs/m-p/600794#M53571 https://community.amd.com/t5/proces...asus-rog-strix-amd-ryzen-9-5900hx/td-p/561834

Those treads popping like candy, something is obviously off.

Oh... Boy...

Only gave a cursory glance over. Any clear shared factors?

 

[electronicworld]

Can this be it ?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows11/comments/xj877b

 

[Dr. Dro]

Oh... Boy...

Only gave a cursory glance over. Any clear shared factors?

First one seemed to be the one DPC latency issue related to Nvidia's driver bug (which is currently being worked on), and triggered by the user having a fourth monitor plugged in. In my case, I run a single, 1080p 60 Hz display through HDMI. It's about as basic and problem free as you could reasonably imagine it to be. Others seem to go as far back as socket AM4's fTPM issue (one of the things that bothered me with my old 5950X build).

Can this be it ?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows11/comments/xj877b

Responded your DM, but I am using 22H2. Did not try the original 21H2 build yet, unsure it's any more suitable for Raptor Lake than 10 is.

 

[Deleted member 57642]

Tweaking community for 10 is a lot more mature too.

In what sense?! More than 90% of all Windows 10 tweaks apply to Windows 11 as well. After all, for most part - Windows 11 is more like a Major Feature Pack - than a New Operating System. If anything, beyond the newish GUI (visible mainly on the surface - cause some stuff it's still easier change/tweak - while using the old GUIs from older versions of Windows - even Windows 7 not to mention Vista - yet, other settings like a Custom Power Plan, Services, Device Manager, Advanced System Settings, Group Policy, etc... don't even have a Windows 11 GUI - so the older versions is the only option) - to make it look or feel like a Newer OS - Microsoft went with "the restrictions approach". "Officially" - that is. Cause most of those restrictions can be Disabled with basic/simple tweak - allowing oneself to install it even on a 10 year old PC. Not surprisingly, it even runs great - if it meets the "practical/physical requirements (good enough CPU + GPU and enough Ram - preferably using an SSD)". All things consider - the naming of Windows 11 (instead of calling it a major feature pack - as they did in the past) - is purely a marketing gimmick. As in: a renewal of their contracts with every major OEM - which would involve new Windows 11 licenses - for all the millions of new systems released after Windows 11. Microsoft even got them by the balls (so to speak) - since they could have recycled their Windows 10 licenses - yet, they felt compelled to go with the times (looks are everything in the corporate world - or at least that counts to a large extent).

That being said, it's truly baffling - that so many Windows Users - don't really get this part (what Windows 11 actually is). At least from their actions and reactions - there's way to many who treat/see it as a major rework - as if Windows 10 is Windows 98 and Windows 11 is Windows 7 and the changes (new stuff) is compelling (to much to take it all in). Which objectively speaking - is obviously far from being the case. Personally, i was actually waiting for a rework (after their last announcements regarding their intentions with Windows 10 - only a complete rework from the ground up - made sense for a new Windows release). Yet, instead - we got another major feature pack. And all the newbies started freaking out about it. Cause if, instead - they'd just call it a major feature pack - they'd treat it like the rest (complain about performance issues if that was the case - and wait for a fix or revert to an older build for the time being).

==============================

Check here...

Intel 13th Gen Support?

13th gen CPUs issue As I mentioned, Biostar may never allow you to disable Undervolt Protection. Intel would like it if all motherboards enabled UVP and disabled undervolting. If being able to undervolt your CPU and run it 20°C cooler is important to you then I would return your Biostar...

www.techpowerup.com

Cause i don't know if ThrottleStop works for your CPU. But it's a good tool - for pointing out throttle issues (be it power, heat or BIOS features related).

Also, try unplugging the Sound Card (EVGA Nu Audio (classic) - just to see if using the builtin audio chip helps with LatencyMon.

As you're probably well aware - there's systems 3x cheaper than yours even older - which don't encounter any such issues under Windows 11 (running smooth like butter - so to speak). I say this - while using such systems right now. Tho, also from my experience with other systems - on which i either installed or tweaked their Windows 11 (even laptops without a dedicated GPU - using the mediocre iGPUs from Intel). Point being - it's clearly not a Windows 11 issue (performing that bad in general), but a specific issue - which for whatever reason (and this is the important part - what one would try to find out while troubleshooting your rig) - didn't get triggered on Windows 10. But hey, since you're trying to solve this issue yoursel and patience is maybe not one of your strengths (don't mean this as a judgement - since there's also lots of games who couldn't care less about the OS - but running their favorite games ASAP on their newly bough rig) - sure - use whatever prove to be working (install Windows 10). I mean, neither of us getting paid for support - we're just playing the role of a good sanitarian - so it's all up to you. The only thing someone like myself can get out of this (which can help for future reference) - is some troubleshooting info (something that could help others - who will ran into same issue). But that - only you find the cause which in turn could also point out to the solution.

 

[bug]

In what sense?! More than 90% of all Windows 10 tweaks apply to Windows 11 as well. After all, for most part - Windows 11 is more like a Major Feature Pack - than a New Operating System.

There's a lot of stealthy changes under the hood. Many things, mostly security related, run on top of Hyper-V now. Hyper-V itself runs even if you disable it and you see it listed as disabled. It's a real nightmare.

 

[Deleted member 57642]

There's a lot of stealthy changes under the hood. Many things, mostly security related, run on top of Hyper-V now. Hyper-V itself runs even if you disable it and you see it listed as disabled. It's a real nightmare.

I'm well aware of all those changes - like core isolation & memory integrity (which is what you're referring too). Tho, it's still something that could have been added through a feature pack. Also, something that's for the best if disabled (does more harm than good). Even Microsoft reached same conclusion (a bad design) - since it causes conflicts even with essential software (you can't share the hardware with multiple virtualization apps - so you either use one or the other - which makes this security feature kinda redundant).

 

[Dr. Dro]

snip

I appreciate the help, but it's not the first time I've used Windows 11 I was running it on my previous build. I removed the audio card when I tested another SSD, the issue remained. It works fine under Windows 11, by the way. I'm currently waiting for news on when 23H2 to go gold (RTM build) so I can try upgrading to that. None of that has yielded any results. I could DM unclewebb requesting a copy of ThrottleStop 9.5.1, but I'm unsure as to why would that be useful in my case. HWiNFO64 already reports that effective clock (C0%) is very low, and that's about what ThrottleStop could tell me.

Other than that the only things I can try are the release preview ring builds or 21H2, and I'm not willing to run a beta OS on my PC at the moment. Not that I am in a rush to, Windows 10 performs admirably well, and I am extremely happy with the result. Cheers

 

[bug]

I'm well aware of all those changes - like core isolation & memory integrity (which is what you're referring too). Tho, it's still something that could have been added through a feature pack. Also, something that's for the best if disabled (does more harm than good). Even Microsoft reached same conclusion (a bad design) - since it causes conflicts even with essential software (you can't share the hardware with multiple virtualization apps - so you either use one or the other - which makes this security feature kinda redundant).

Well, if that belongs in a feature pack, what doesn't then?

(And yes, Win11 is why I can't use VirtualBox on my work laptop now )

 

[Deleted member 57642]

I appreciate the help, but it's not the first time I've used Windows 11 I was running it on my previous build. I removed the audio card when I tested another SSD, the issue remained. It works fine under Windows 11, by the way. I'm currently waiting for news on when 23H2 to go gold (RTM build) so I can try upgrading to that. None of that has yielded any results. I could DM unclewebb requesting a copy of ThrottleStop 9.5.1, but I'm unsure as to why would that be useful in my case. HWiNFO64 already reports that effective clock (C0%) is very low, and that's about what ThrottleStop could tell me.

Other than that the only things I can try are the release preview ring builds or 21H2, and I'm not willing to run a beta OS on my PC at the moment. Not that I am in a rush to, Windows 10 performs admirably well, and I am extremely happy with the result. Cheers

ThrottleStop is more newbie friendly - in terms Throttle issues (the "Limit" tab displays all possible triggers - if there's any / with HWiNFO64 - you have to know where to look, well not that hard to find those results either - just less obvious about it). Also, if your board has an EC Sensor - while getting triggered/accessed - that alone can cause performance drops and latency issues. Anyway, LatencyMon pointed out - to possible throttling related issues - causing high latency (seemed worth checking it out - till getting new leads).

As an old saying goes "if it ain't broke don't fix it". Believe it or not - i have nothing against people who prefer Windows 10 (or even Windows XP - after all - it's the last Windows released by Microsoft - that doesn't come with any spyware/telemetry preinstalled, to bad... it lacks the hardware support or even software support like DX - cause many more would still be using it to this day). My issue is with meaningless/pointless bashing on Windows 11 - which is usually based on ignorance (or personal preferences) and ends-up spreading more ignorance as a result (there's quite a lot who didn't even try it - mainly because other convinced them it's really bad compared to Windows 10). Which is far from an objective truth/reality. Tho, to be fair - Microsoft is also to blame - for self-sabotaging their product (shooting themselves in the foot - so to speak) - with some of their so called new features (which fortunately can be disabled) - or the official/public hardware support. Who knows - maybe lately, a big part of Microsoft's staff is simply pretending to be working - so they still can get paid (or to keep their jobs).

Well, if that belongs in a feature pack, what doesn't then?

(And yes, Win11 is why I can't use VirtualBox on my work laptop now )

Wellknown by now and thus - publicly acknowledged issues even by Microsoft:

"Many third-party virtualization applications don't work together with Hyper-V. Affected applications include VMware Workstation and VirtualBox. These applications might not start virtual machines, or they may fall back to a slower, emulated mode.


These symptoms are introduced when the Hyper-V Hypervisor is running. Some security solutions are also dependent on the hypervisor, such as:

• Device Guard
• Credential Guard"

Disable Hyper-V to run virtualization software - Windows Client

Discusses an issue in which virtualization applications don't work together with Hyper-V, Device Guard, and Credential Guard. Provides a resolution.

learn.microsoft.com

"Some applications and hardware device drivers may be incompatible with memory integrity. This incompatibility can cause devices or software to malfunction and in rare cases may result in a boot failure (blue screen). Such issues may occur after memory integrity has been turned on or during the enablement process itself. If compatibility issues occur, see Troubleshooting for remediation steps."

Enable memory integrity

This article explains the steps to opt in to using memory integrity on Windows devices.

learn.microsoft.com

 

[bug]

Wellknown by now and thus - publicly acknowledged issues even by Microsoft:

"Many third-party virtualization applications don't work together with Hyper-V. Affected applications include VMware Workstation and VirtualBox. These applications might not start virtual machines, or they may fall back to a slower, emulated mode.


These symptoms are introduced when the Hyper-V Hypervisor is running. Some security solutions are also dependent on the hypervisor, such as:

• Device Guard
• Credential Guard"

Disable Hyper-V to run virtualization software - Windows Client

Discusses an issue in which virtualization applications don't work together with Hyper-V, Device Guard, and Credential Guard. Provides a resolution.

learn.microsoft.com

"Some applications and hardware device drivers may be incompatible with memory integrity. This incompatibility can cause devices or software to malfunction and in rare cases may result in a boot failure (blue screen). Such issues may occur after memory integrity has been turned on or during the enablement process itself. If compatibility issues occur, see Troubleshooting for remediation steps."

Enable memory integrity

This article explains the steps to opt in to using memory integrity on Windows devices.

learn.microsoft.com

Which a convoluted way to say Win11 doesn't support virtualization other than Hyper-V. It's probably the biggest change in Win11, yet nobody, Microsoft or tech sites, bothered to report on it.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Which a convoluted way to say Win11 doesn't support virtualization other than Hyper-V. It's probably the biggest change in Win11, yet nobody, Microsoft or tech sites, bothered to report on it.

You need to enable the Windows Hypervisor Platform in the optional features pane (type optionalfeatures.exe on Run or CMD) in order to allow third-party hypervisors to run. It is the same on Windows 10.

 

[Deleted member 57642]

Which a convoluted way to say Win11 doesn't support virtualization other than Hyper-V. It's probably the biggest change in Win11, yet nobody, Microsoft or tech sites, bothered to report on it.

Even Oracle dropped support for software virtualization back in late 2019 with the release of VirtualBox 6.1.0:

1.5. Retirement of Support for Software Virtualization​

This release of Oracle VM VirtualBox does not support software virtualization. The recompiler that was supplied in previous releases is no longer available.The host must have a CPU that supports hardware virtualization.

Since then and as can be seen even with the latest version - Oracle keeps trying to improve the support for nested visualization (which in essence is still Hyper-V). As in... Hyper-V "WAS" expected/regarded as the future - in the development of this virtual apps. The only issue... "Sharing!" That being said - releasing security features - which are dependent/based on Hardware Virtualization proved to be quite ignorant of Microsoft. Then again, that's the most common outcome of pilling features on top of each-other (the lazy way) - instead of reworking them from ground-up (the clean way - but it does/can take a lot of handwork till one can see positive results: fully functioning features without any conflicting limitations). To be fair (or give credit where credit is due) - the officials from Microsoft are quite transparent about this limitations (it's not like they can pretend or act as if it doesn't work that way).

"Cause​

This behavior occurs by design.


Many virtualization applications depend on hardware virtualization extensions that are available on most modern processors. It includes Intel VT-x and AMD-V. Only one software component can use this hardware at a time. The hardware cannot be shared between virtualization applications. To use other virtualization software, you must disable Hyper-V Hypervisor, Device Guard, and Credential Guard. If you want to disable Hyper-V Hypervisor, follow the steps in next two sections."

They even recommend and show all the steps to disable this Windows Feature - for those who need the hardware support other virtual apps. You see/regard it as a big change - while Microsoft regards it as a minor inconvenient - which they prefer to easily just brush under the rug (if necessary). It's over a decade old feature primarily intended for Windows Server.

 

[bug]

@XSAlliN That's the theory. In practice, all IT departments will enable the security feature (par for the course for company issued equipment) leaving everyone unable to run anything but Hyper-V.

You need to enable the Windows Hypervisor Platform in the optional features pane (type optionalfeatures.exe on Run or CMD) in order to allow third-party hypervisors to run. It is the same on Windows 10.

Yes, but they will run on top of Hyper-V, at snail's pace

 

[Deleted member 57642]

@XSAlliN That's the theory. In practice, all IT departments will enable the security feature (par for the course for company issued equipment) leaving everyone unable to run anything but Hyper-V.

Actually, it's more practice than theory. In the Corporate World (at large) - "latest/newest OS/Software" - is the biggest taboo (least approached topic - instead, you're suppose to work with what you get and get used to it since that will be the norm for years to come - even if it's bugged - if there's some workaround - that will become the way of doing things). Let me put it this way... even Windows 10 was more or less taboo (far from being widely adopted - at most workplaces). And I'm talking about multi-millions $ corporations - where Windows 7 + custom made proprietary software - was the most common OS till not so long ago (some still use it to this day - since the budget for upgrades and the changes that come with that is also a taboo subject - for obvious reasons). Same goes for small firms. Tho, it's usually the little guys (less than 5 people businesses) - where you find Windows 10 or more rarely Windows 11. That's not to say - the people working at this companies are lazy - just cautious even smart about it (why create issues - when things just work as they do). And also, quite common - limited by financial resources: unless we're talking about a particular company (like Google, or a hosting service) - where investments in software and hardware - can help in the long run - the IT departments are usually the last on the priority list (in therms of finances and investments). That being said, you have to be very subjective to put it like that: "ALL IT departments (which to me translates as "your particular workplace"). There's rarely one model fits all.

That being said - Windows 11 is more suitable for private talks (and individual clients) or forums. I don't know where you're working - but usually - you're not suppose to have access to an Admin account (and do what you want on the company's PC). A Personal Account or/and proprietary software(which is even more restricting/limiting) - assigned to each worker - is usually the main obstacle. Not some security feature which comes with Windows. Since if that interferes with an app used by the company - it's sure to be disabled by the staff. Unless... the IT department is filled with idiots - hired simply cause they know someone from upper management (simply put - nepotism). Nothing new - tho, usually - even such places have a least 1 guy "hired for what it can do" - or else that place could fall apart - during a faulty Windows update. Same reason - corporations use LTSC, tho even the ones that don't use LTSC - tends to have Windows Updates Disabled (which is part of the Admin's job - limited to security updates OFC and late Fridays - not feature packs).