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Windows 11 causing random stutters / frame-pacing / frame-time issues?

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Hello!

Been using Windows 11 24h2 and also Windows 10 22h2 on and off, I like to test stuff.

I've noticed that (even with 23h2) whenever I'm on Windows 11, I have these weird frame-time / stutter issues. Mostly I've noticed in CS2 / Dota 2.

Whenever I'm asked to reproduce is pretty tricky because they happen... randomly.

I monitor using Afterburner / RTSS and the frame-times in Windows 10 are generally way smoother than Windows 11.

Ryzen 5800x3d / RTX 4070 here.

Has anyone noticed this?

Thanks!
 

p1xeldrip

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Hey i have nearly the same rig, 5800x3d 4070super and I am switching between Win11/Win10 and different settings for testing purposes. Win 11 23h2 seems fine compared to 24h2. 24h2 is a mess..
Since i have a pretty optimized win 11 rn I would love to compare frametimes on the same server w/o anything going on. (this kinda drives me crazy epecially since cs2 at release with this setup was like 1.5-2.5 ms.. and now it isnt anymore).. If you are interested in this aswell send me a PM with you steam name or friend code and I add you.. i am benching rn so you might even catch me when i am online and testing :D
Best regards.
 
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I monitor using Afterburner / RTSS and the frame-times in Windows 10 are generally way smoother than Windows 11.
there is a bug with MSI AB and power monitoring for at least half a decade now (probably close to 10 years) could you try to disable the monitoring for power and power percentage in the MSI AB monitoring tab?
 
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there is a bug with MSI AB and power monitoring for at least half a decade now (probably close to 10 years) could you try to disable the monitoring for power and power percentage in the MSI AB monitoring tab?

Does impact the fps / frame-time somehow? (having them enabled)
 
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Does impact the fps / frame-time somehow? (having them enabled)
it can cause stuttering and low 1% framerates when the monitoring is enabled.
 
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it can cause stuttering and low 1% framerates when the monitoring is enabled.

Yes but in CS2 for example, the monitoring is disabled (cannot be enabled in-game) as I think it views it as some kind of cheat, although the program is active in the taskbar.

Also can I ask, these "low 1% framerates" are bugs in Windows 11 or doesn't matter? Because in Windows 10 I don't have these issues in CS2.
 
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windows 11 24H2 has issues with games but the MSI AB monitoring still has this bug. (i don't talk about having the overlay open or not, i talk about having the monitoring of powerdraw and the percentage enabled in the software itself no matter if it's showing you the values or not)
i can't diagnose your PC over the internet but i can offer some troubleshooting steps based on my and others experience and documentation.
 

Abortino

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Hi! I have been experiencing rare random spikes too on any game with Windows 11 23H2 and 24H2 both, in the previous year I have been testing with two different systems (both on AM5 tho) and I have noticed random spikes on 1% FPS on a good range of titles with extremely steady loads (titles screens for instance), I was able to record performance thanks to FrameView SDK provided by Nvidia (the output of the recording being a .CSV file, spotting 1% spikes with Excel). I haven't tested yet with Windows 10 due to end of service, I would like to test on a Linux distro, but I have still to look around for something as good as Nvidia Frameview SDK to record performance.

Games tested with issues:
CS2
FFXIV
Stranger of Paradise
Kena: Bridge of Spirits
Born of Bread
Risk of Rain 2
Last Epoch
Crystal Project

All tests have been performed with frame cap to 60 and 120 FPS with in Nvidia Control Panel. No third party background application aside from Steam and Discord. Some titles have been more stable than others, only Last Epoch performed as expected at 60 FPS.
Every test has been executed in the respective game title screen.
For anyone interested I can share the resulting CSV files.

As I said they are somewhat uncommon (I would say once every hour, Windows Event Log completely clean)

Tests have been performed in random times in the last 6 months on both systems, both on 23H2 and 24H2. Chipset/Video drivers and BIOS version always up to date.

PC Specs 1:
CPU: Ryzen 5 7600X
GPU: RTX 4070 Super EVO DUAL Asus
RAM: 2x16 GB Corsair Vengeance 6000 MHz
Motherboard: MSI X670 Gaming Plus Wifi
SSD: NVMe 1 TB WD_Black SN770
PSU: NZXT C750 Gold

PC Specs 2:
CPU: Ryzen 5 7600
GPU: RTX 4060 MSI 2X VENTUS
RAM: 2x8 GB Kingston 5200 MHz
Motherboard: MSI B650M Gaming Plus Wifi
SSD: NVMe 1 TB Crucial P3 Plus
PSU: XTR 550W Gold
 
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Nice work.

It would have been nice if you could have the time to compare it to Windows 10 22h2. I'm pretty sure they played around with the Windows 11 scheduler so much that they broke some stuff... thus these random performance issues which don't happen in Windows 10.
 

Abortino

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Thank you grvn! Unfortunately these tests do take a good amount of time, these drops are not very common, I get them once every 1/2 hours, depends on the title. Although I can't really figure out why they do happen and what causes It. I really don't think It is in any capacity related to the games tested. I haven't taken in consideration Windows 10 due to end of service, I don't think I will spend anymore time on this because It has been on going for a good while like this.
 
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Thank you grvn! Unfortunately these tests do take a good amount of time, these drops are not very common, I get them once every 1/2 hours, depends on the title. Although I can't really figure out why they do happen and what causes It. I really don't think It is in any capacity related to the games tested. I haven't taken in consideration Windows 10 due to end of service, I don't think I will spend anymore time on this because It has been on going for a good while like this.
I understand and yes, Windows 10 22h2 is only supported until Oct. 2025, which is a sad day for me. I know technology must move forward, but in my specific case (5800x3d, RTX 4070, 32GB RAM 3600) I get mini-stutters and / or lower performance in Windows 11 24h2 vs Windows 10 22h2.

For me, Windows 10 22h2 is way smoother and more consistent when it comes to gaming performance.

If you open the videos below, you will see the frame-spikes / mini-freezes almost I have while I play on 24h2, and on Windows 10 is smooth. (CS2 in this case)

LINK TO IMGUR

This is clean Windows 11 24h2, debloated, same drivers, same settings etc.
 

Abortino

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The fact that It is this bad even with debloated Windows 11 is amazing. Have you tried capping to a lower refesh rate (with RTSS or NCP I think It would be preferable since It should improve 1% FPS)? Do they happen for instance at 60 FPS? (I know this is not ideal for competitive games, just to test stuff). What about on idle? Do they manage to happen on lobby screen?

What about other titles aside from Source engine?

Have you tried checking in Event Log and see if there is something off? Have you tried disabling (for testing purposes, I wouldn't keep It this way) Core Isolation? I have a strong feeling this issues could be related to how Windows manages the TPM 2.0 module, on every PC I have tested (even laptops) I have noticed a completely random change state from Ready and Not Ready every 5 seconds or so.
 
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Benchmark Scores They're pretty good, nothing crazy.
Are these with Kernel Virtualization turned on or off?
 

Abortino

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Are these with Kernel Virtualization turned on or off?
Do you mean Virtualization Based Security? I'm not really sure, I need to check, does this feature get automatically disabled upon disabling Core Isolation?
 
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Benchmark Scores They're pretty good, nothing crazy.
Do you mean Virtualization Based Security? I'm not really sure, I need to check, does this feature get automatically disabled upon disabling Core Isolation?
not in the latest windows -24h2 maintains VBS on even if core isolation is turned off - I learned this through my virtualbox vms still showing they're interacting with a virtualized kernel even though core isolation was off -- also can be confirmed in system information.

Prior versions did disable it, though.

Also - pointing to scheduler issues gone wrong:
Early Access Bug Reports - POE 2 Complete PC Freeze while loading screen - Forum - Path of Exile

POE2 24h2 megathread. Freezing in menus and in loading screens - hard locks pc (no interrupts, no ablity to recover windows, has to power off - mouse still works and sometimes sound thread stays alive).
 

Abortino

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I could give it another try, but I noticed this issues also on 23H2 so I don't really know, I'm pretty sure VBS was off when I tested It months ago.
 

Abortino

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not in the latest windows -24h2 maintains VBS on even if core isolation is turned off - I learned this through my virtualbox vms still showing they're interacting with a virtualized kernel even though core isolation was off -- also can be confirmed in system information.

Prior versions did disable it, though.

Also - pointing to scheduler issues gone wrong:
Early Access Bug Reports - POE 2 Complete PC Freeze while loading screen - Forum - Path of Exile

POE2 24h2 megathread. Freezing in menus and in loading screens - hard locks pc (no interrupts, no ablity to recover windows, has to power off - mouse still works and sometimes sound thread stays alive).
Wow I had no idea 24H2 was causing this much trouble. Now that you mention It I had a bunch of hard system locks since 24H2 has been released.
 

Abortino

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Update: thinking It was power related to my house (absurd, but still). I had a friend test both FFXIV benchmark and Stranger of Paradise, and looking at the logs he recorded, he had the same exact issues.

He's on AM4 platform, Windows 11. I have no idea if Its system has any applications eating at random resources in the background, It shouldn't be the case (he also closed every application known to him running in the background). Still, he's got the same frametime spikes at random moments on titles screens, uncommon and with same magnitude.

grvn, did you say you have noticed the same frametime spikes in Windows 11 23H2, Is that right?

PC Specs:
CPU: Ryzen 5 5600X
GPU: RTX 4060 ASUS Evo Dual OC


To be honest I have no idea what the other specs are, but I guess it makes very little difference at this point being on a different platform.

grvn, did you say you have noticed the same frametime spikes in Windows 11 23H2, Is that right?
 
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The fact that It is this bad even with debloated Windows 11 is amazing. Have you tried capping to a lower refesh rate (with RTSS or NCP I think It would be preferable since It should improve 1% FPS)? Do they happen for instance at 60 FPS? (I know this is not ideal for competitive games, just to test stuff). What about on idle? Do they manage to happen on lobby screen?

What about other titles aside from Source engine?

Have you tried checking in Event Log and see if there is something off? Have you tried disabling (for testing purposes, I wouldn't keep It this way) Core Isolation? I have a strong feeling this issues could be related to how Windows manages the TPM 2.0 module, on every PC I have tested (even laptops) I have noticed a completely random change state from Ready and Not Ready every 5 seconds or so.
I debloated manually by removing unnecessary apps. That specific frame-spike happens in CS2. I managed to almost fix the issue by installing the latest Nvidia Hotfix Driver. But still, Windows 10 22h2 is smoother in CS2.

grvn, did you say you have noticed the same frametime spikes in Windows 11 23H2, Is that right?
Haven't used 23h2 in a while but yes, I had all sorts of strange issues when it comes to frame-spikes or inconsistent frame rate in Windows 11. At this point I think it's related to Ryzen CPU's and Windows 11 in general.

Still, he's got the same frametime spikes at random moments on titles screens, uncommon and with same magnitude.
Does his issue also occurs in Windows 10 22h2?
 

Abortino

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About that, I tested Windows 10 22H2 on the first machine, unfortunately I don't have the GPU (tldr: my brother sold It since he quit gaming a month ago) on that and well it seems to not happen ,(with Ryzen 5 7600 iGPU) the only game I was able to test at the bare minimum of 60 FPS was the FFXIV benchmark since It is very light, at 720p, every setting on minimum (It was unable to handle even 1080p minimum at 60 FPS) and well it doesn't happen, so I would say yeah on 22H2 seems to be more stable or maybe It Is related Nvidia drivers as you said, or maybe AMD, I don't really know. In the next days I won't have a lot of time, but I would like to test that on my machine too... I will see what to do about that, I have wasted a good chunk of free time for this little nitpick thing, mostly because in all of this time I haven't seen anyone talking in any capacity about this, It feels so odd to find the same issues on multiple machines which feel related to a widely used OS, widely used platform, and widely used GPU, but finding almost none talking about it.
 

Abortino

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About that grvn, how frequent are yours? Have you tested at lower refesh rate? Any other title?
 
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but finding almost none talking about it.
People are either ignorant, either don't care either believe that it's ok, because they haven't seen different OS.

About that grvn, how frequent are yours? Have you tested at lower refesh rate? Any other title?
I can mostly reproduce in CS2 and I test at @240fps in-game.

Also the minimums in CP2077 also seem lower on Windows 11 24h2. - I did the tests myself, maybe margin of error but overall, seems that Windows 10 22h2 has better minimums.

1737068438560.png
 

Abortino

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Wow you have done a very good and detailed job, It would be very interesting to compare 1% lows, I do expect to see worse in this regard, unfortunately FPS as always been the metric used for performance in the wrong sense, It doesn't define smoothness but rather overall performance, 1% and frametimes matter so much more, until 6 months ago I never bothered with this stuff.
People are either ignorant, either don't care either believe that it's ok, because they haven't seen different OS.


I can mostly reproduce in CS2 and I test at @240fps in-game.

Also the minimums in CP2077 also seem lower on Windows 11 24h2. - I did the tests myself, maybe margin of error but overall, seems that Windows 10 22h2 has better minimums.

View attachment 380297

Tho, It shouldn't be this bad... I will check around perfomance too, I know maybe this shouldn't be considered, but have you compared 3D Mark scores, for instance on TimeSpy? There Is such a huge gap It doesn't make sense.
 

Abortino

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Another thing before I forget, when did you upgrade to 24H2? You said that updating to the latest Nvidia Driver things improved, what versione did you have before that? What I'm trying to say, maybe your old video driver was causing issues because It was installed when you were on 23H2, and maybe this is indeed related to the issue still.
 
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