Windows 12

[Onasi]

I can compare two systems:
1. Windows 10 machine. With 14.8 GB of RAM - it idles, loads to Windows screen at 1.9 GB used.
2. Windows 11 machine. With 23.6 GB of RAM - it idles, loads to Windows screen at between 3.9 and 4.4 GB used..

I said “similar installs”. My setup with 32 gigs uses 2.1-2.3 at steady state on fresh boot (so after initial processes had run) and usually falls around 3 when in active use. It all depends on how one tweaks the system, base 11 can have more stuff enabled by default, so just turning it off can bring down the usage. Overall, the difference between 10 and 11 when properly setup over maybe a hundred of machines I work with is statistically negligible.
tl:dr - Skill issue.

A single browser tab uses 5.5 GB.

How is modern browsers aggressively using RAM is the fault of Windows exactly?

I agree that RAM must be used, but it doesn't do anything in order to justify so much resources wasted.

It’s not wasted, it’s literally used to make the OS experience snappier and is instantly re-allocated when needed. What do you think OS memory management even does, fills up the RAM and then just runs out of memory or goes to paging? Stop counting numbers in the task manager, set up your system according to your needs turning off what you don’t use and just let the OS do whatever it wants to. You are not smarter than the MS engineers in this instance.

 

[AUTOEXEC.BAT]

Just loaded some Gigabyte, Logitech and (AMD) Radeon in the background. Browser was closed during screenshot.

 

[Space Lynx]

I'm busy creating a system like that.


Don't know what to do yet

Go offline

or

Go LTSC for some years? Is there a Windows 10 22H2 LTSC? Or mabe IoT if possible for a gaming system?

I don't trust M$ not to fuck it up somehow, also, I have so much backlog, I can literally go offline with my current sig rig and probably not need to upgrade for 10-15 years or more. So, yeah, that is what I intend to do. Windows 10 is soooo fucking fast. I removed all Win10 apps with this special software, and yeah, omg everything is so fast in Win 10, like literally one click insta 0.000001 nanosecond load times, Win 11 is like 3 full seconds to open the same shit

 

[cvaldes]

One thing for sure, I will not upgrade to Windows 12 when it comes out. I will likely wait ~2 years which is fine since Microsoft provides security updates for the past two versions.

When Windows 11 released in October 2021, I stayed on Windows 10 and didn't upgrade to Window 11 23H2 in summer of 2024. Windows 11 24H2 still appears to have stability and reliability issues so it's unlikely I will upgrade to 24H2 anytime in the next six months. There's always a chance that I will simply skip 24H2 and wait for 25H2 to mature (June 2026).

So let's pretend Windows 12 debuts in late 2027. I'd probably consider upgrading to W12 28H2 sometime in 2029. Not interested in eating uncooked Redmond dogchow.

What features would you want to see?

I hope to see Microsoft increase the length of their hexadecimal error codes. So Windows 11 error code 0x80040214 becomes Windows 12 error code 0x0080040214.

 

[_roman_]

Why would you specifically turn OFF tpm?

Note: Check the docs and the security topics first.

In my point of view the TPM is an insecure solution. First things I turn off is secure boot. That is an intel problem. That is an apple problem to have a demand for secure boot.
TPM - I do not need it therefore turn it off. Windows 11 pro demands tpm for certain upgrades / installations in my expierence so far.

I'm also quite sure bitlocker needs tpm. I do not want on a gaming only, insecure, adware and bloated windows 11 pro installation any bitlocker. I'm also not sure if i can access the files when bitlocker may be used.

Bitlocker with & without TPM - What's the Difference? - Microsoft Q&A

What does the TPM do (what are its functions) when you encrypt the system drive with Bitlocker? And what is the difference if I encrypt the system drive without the TPM?

learn.microsoft.com

which leads to https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/hardware-security/tpm/how-windows-uses-the-tpm

I trust my efi-stub kernel with lvm2 + linux unified key setup + btrfs more than windows 11 pro with bitlocker and an online windows account as user login.

TPM + bitlocker makes it more complicated for myself. I also do not trust those game binaries from EA / ubisoft / calypso / epic games store. I'll use steam soon again to finish the last of us.

windows 11 pro is maybe similar to a sony playstation here. 99% only games. 1% benchmark tools.

I also hope or expect the following. When the feature is turned off, I hope and expect windows can not use secure boot and tpm. I mean the hole operating system that includes how files are handled, how passwords are handled and how the boot process is.

--

Do not forget about the "fake" swap which windows has. it is called c:\pagefile.sys afaik. That is even worse than ram usage

 

[MCJAxolotl7]

Note: Check the docs and the security topics first.

In my point of view the TPM is an insecure solution. First things I turn off is secure boot. That is an intel problem. That is an apple problem to have a demand for secure boot.
TPM - I do not need it therefore turn it off. Windows 11 pro demands tpm for certain upgrades / installations in my expierence so far.

I'm also quite sure bitlocker needs tpm. I do not want on a gaming only, insecure, adware and bloated windows 11 pro installation any bitlocker. I'm also not sure if i can access the files when bitlocker may be used.

Bitlocker with & without TPM - What's the Difference? - Microsoft Q&A

What does the TPM do (what are its functions) when you encrypt the system drive with Bitlocker? And what is the difference if I encrypt the system drive without the TPM?

learn.microsoft.com

which leads to https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/hardware-security/tpm/how-windows-uses-the-tpm

I trust my efi-stub kernel with lvm2 + linux unified key setup + btrfs more than windows 11 pro with bitlocker and an online windows account as user login.

TPM + bitlocker makes it more complicated for myself. I also do not trust those game binaries from EA / ubisoft / calypso / epic games store. I'll use steam soon again to finish the last of us.

windows 11 pro is maybe similar to a sony playstation here. 99% only games. 1% benchmark tools.

I also hope or expect the following. When the feature is turned off, I hope and expect windows can not use secure boot and tpm. I mean the hole operating system that includes how files are handled, how passwords are handled and how the boot process is.

--

Do not forget about the "fake" swap which windows has. it is called c:\pagefile.sys afaik. That is even worse than ram usage

I mean then just don't use bitlocker at all? This is from me, who is a hardcore Linux user.

 

[_roman_]

My response was, why I turn off secure boot and tpm. I refuse to use bitlocker on a unsecure operating system. The demand for an online login from microsoft does not make it more trustworthy. Bitlocker does not make it more trustworthy. The topic is much deeper. I'll not research to the last bit which "fake" claim is true or not anymore. Years ago there were already claims that windows takes screenshots every few seconds and does something with that, saves password someone else as your computer, checks every media and picture files and documents. I will not bother checking what it does or not. It's a black box. I came to the conclusion years ago, as a gaming DRM platform yes. For other personal purposes no. AT work those decisions are made by other people.

 

[Zareek]

As soon as possible, in order to fix the screaming issues Windows 11 has, and Microsoft finally to start listening to and hearing the user base in order to build a normal operating system, after feedback and necessary changes in order to make the user interface more usable and friendly.

Windows 12 must be very light - usable and fast on low end systems with Athlon dual-core and 2 GB of RAM.

Windows 11 is extremely RAM demanding, around 100% more than Windows 10.

I really dislike Windows 11 but in my personal limited testing, when given small amounts of RAM Windows 11 Pro x64 is slightly better with memory management than Windows 10 Pro x64. The testing was done with a system that came 4G of soldered memory, Intel 8350u with Intel HD 620 embedded graphics. Windows 11 by default used less memory than 10 and was better at managing the limited amount of memory. Overall 4G of RAM with either OS is a miserable experience. It becomes unusable with anything more than one browser tab open at a time. This includes Windows checking for updates or running background security tasks. While 8GB of RAM is really the minimum for either Windows OS, pretty much any version of Linux will run great on the same hardware with only 4G.

Anyway Windows 12 can’t come soon enough unless it’s more of this half functioning UI and forced spyware glut that we call Windows 11.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Do not forget about the "fake" swap which windows has. it is called c:\pagefile.sys afaik. That is even worse than ram usage

I don't understand this? pagefile.sys is not a "fake" swap file, it IS Windows' swap file. Linux just makes that a partition instead of a file within the main filesystem.

 

[mechtech]

MS should have a public naming contest/voting for the next windows name

 

[68Olds]

MS should have a public naming contest/voting for the next windows name

That always ends well...

'Boaty McBoatface' tops public vote as name of polar ship

"Boaty McBoatface" is the runaway winner in a competition to name a new polar ship - polling nearly 90,000 more votes than the second most popular name.

www.bbc.com

 

[mechtech]

That always ends well...

'Boaty McBoatface' tops public vote as name of polar ship

"Boaty McBoatface" is the runaway winner in a competition to name a new polar ship - polling nearly 90,000 more votes than the second most popular name.

www.bbc.com

Exactly!!

Open the Polls!!!!!

 

[theFOoL]

Peeps relax...

 

[Space Lynx]

Peeps relax...

View attachment 400131

I like how chatgpt contradicts itself in its own post, lmao

 

[_roman_]

I don't understand this? pagefile.sys is not a "fake" swap file, it IS Windows' swap file. Linux just makes that a partition instead of a file within the main filesystem.

You are wrong. You can have encrypted swap file, encrypted swap partition, swap partition and a swap file with the linux kernel and some tools. I left out all the lvm2 possibilites also.

The issue is, the long term issue with windows. It's hard to get rid of that fake swap file which is called pagefile.sys.
My box with 2x32Gib DRAM has some issues with some crap windows software, although more than 50Gib DRAM are free.
disabling the pagefile.sys is also not that easy.
It ruins the datastorage in teh long run. pagefile.sys is very, very bad for money.

Pagefile.sys only has a purpose on my crap 200€ 4 year old lenovo notebook with 8gib dram and an amd apu. It's entry level hardware, slow, nearly no dram, bad cpu. A user of such hardware expect to destroy his data drive. In my point of view the SATA m2-2280 drive i removed from a 3 year or younger in use, hp laptop with 8gib dram most likely died because of pagefile.sys. HP devices have first day born in the uefi - 0% to guess when the device was first time turned on with windows 10.

 

[Solaris17]

You are wrong. You can have encrypted swap file, encrypted swap partition, swap partition and a swap file with the linux kernel and some tools. I left out all the lvm2 possibilites also.

The issue is, the long term issue with windows. It's hard to get rid of that fake swap file which is called pagefile.sys.
My box with 2x32Gib DRAM has some issues with some crap windows software, although more than 50Gib DRAM are free.
disabling the pagefile.sys is also not that easy.
It ruins the datastorage in teh long run. pagefile.sys is very, very bad for money.

Pagefile.sys only has a purpose on my crap 200€ 4 year old lenovo notebook with 8gib dram and an amd apu. It's entry level hardware, slow, nearly no dram, bad cpu. A user of such hardware expect to destroy his data drive. In my point of view the SATA m2-2280 drive i removed from a 3 year or younger in use, hp laptop with 8gib dram most likely died because of pagefile.sys. HP devices have first day born in the uefi - 0% to guess when the device was first time turned on with windows 10.

This reeks of some kind of personal bias and is totally off topic, no one gives a shit about your Linux PC in the windows 12 thread. And the page file on windows serves the same purpose TO THE OS as a swap partition.

I would go on and also make baseless obscure comparisons to MY OWN Linux systems or even the servers I have in production. This is not the place.

If you have nothing to say on the topic don’t try to change the topic or you will be removed from the topic.

Thanks.

 

[Spacednow1]

Note: Check the docs and the security topics first.

In my point of view the TPM is an insecure solution. First things I turn off is secure boot. That is an intel problem. That is an apple problem to have a demand for secure boot.
TPM - I do not need it therefore turn it off. Windows 11 pro demands tpm for certain upgrades / installations in my expierence so far.

I'm also quite sure bitlocker needs tpm. I do not want on a gaming only, insecure, adware and bloated windows 11 pro installation any bitlocker. I'm also not sure if i can access the files when bitlocker may be used.

Bitlocker with & without TPM - What's the Difference? - Microsoft Q&A

What does the TPM do (what are its functions) when you encrypt the system drive with Bitlocker? And what is the difference if I encrypt the system drive without the TPM?

learn.microsoft.com

which leads to https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/hardware-security/tpm/how-windows-uses-the-tpm

I trust my efi-stub kernel with lvm2 + linux unified key setup + btrfs more than windows 11 pro with bitlocker and an online windows account as user login.

TPM + bitlocker makes it more complicated for myself. I also do not trust those game binaries from EA / ubisoft / calypso / epic games store. I'll use steam soon again to finish the last of us.

windows 11 pro is maybe similar to a sony playstation here. 99% only games. 1% benchmark tools.

I also hope or expect the following. When the feature is turned off, I hope and expect windows can not use secure boot and tpm. I mean the hole operating system that includes how files are handled, how passwords are handled and how the boot process is.

--

Do not forget about the "fake" swap which windows has. it is called c:\pagefile.sys afaik. That is even worse than ram usage

23H2 isn't that bad, but requires a lot of special tweaks and custom program blocks that constantly need tweaked with some of the updates MS does. Myself I keep secure boot off and bitlocker disabled, but TPM doesn't make much difference performance wise. If somebody is determined to breach your PC they will and pushing all the useless security crap is just a way for everyone to make $. Note- I also remove defender and remove/disable all the other MS malware stuff except the firewall. My router has AV and firewall enabled. Other than that don't be stupid and you're most likely OK. I have 32GB of memory, but have never seen above 5GB in use max. I can't disable the page file because I have a program from 2001 that bluescreens if it is, but I limit it to 256MB. Stayed on 7 until it became to much hassle to keep a browser that would work on it and websites, then went to 11.
Apparently MS is now installing recall along with other spyware/malware on the 24H2 for everyone, not just copilot+PC's. And putting more ads in. 23H2 is the end of MS for me. LMDE is next. It couldn't be worse than getting windows 7 working flawless on new hardware but I'd still mess around keeping 7 running with browser hacks if newer games would allow you to use win7. MS is determined to make you keep everything on their servers and implementing monthly fees along with taking full control of a computer you paid for one way or another. I'm just tired of that fight and don't want to waste any more time on it.