• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Yet Another Speculative Malfunction: Intel Reveals New Side-Channel Attack, Advises Disabling Hyper-Threading Below 8th, 9th Gen CPUs

Joined
Dec 16, 2017
Messages
2,720 (1.19/day)
Location
Buenos Aires, Argentina
System Name System V
Processor AMD Ryzen 5 3600
Motherboard Asus Prime X570-P
Cooling Cooler Master Hyper 212 // a bunch of 120 mm Xigmatek 1500 RPM fans (2 ins, 3 outs)
Memory 2x8GB Ballistix Sport LT 3200 MHz (BLS8G4D32AESCK.M8FE) (CL16-18-18-36)
Video Card(s) Gigabyte AORUS Radeon RX 580 8 GB
Storage SHFS37A240G / DT01ACA200 / WD20EZRX / MKNSSDTR256GB-3DL / LG BH16NS40 / ST10000VN0008
Display(s) LG 22MP55 IPS Display
Case NZXT Source 210
Audio Device(s) Logitech G430 Headset
Power Supply Corsair CX650M
Mouse Microsoft Trackball Optical 1.0
Keyboard HP Vectra VE keyboard (Part # D4950-63004)
Software Whatever build of Windows 11 is being served in Dev channel at the time.
Benchmark Scores Corona 1.3: 3120620 r/s Cinebench R20: 3355 FireStrike: 12490 TimeSpy: 4624
"Ah sh*t, here we go again" was my thought when I read the title...

20190514-193420.png
 
Joined
Dec 10, 2015
Messages
545 (0.18/day)
Location
Here
System Name Skypas
Processor Intel Core i7-6700
Motherboard Asus H170 Pro Gaming
Cooling Cooler Master Hyper 212X Turbo
Memory Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB
Video Card(s) MSI GTX 1060 Gaming X 6GB
Storage Corsair Neutron GTX 120GB + WD Blue 1TB
Display(s) LG 22EA63V
Case Corsair Carbide 400Q
Power Supply Seasonic SS-460FL2 w/ Deepcool XFan 120
Mouse Logitech B100
Keyboard Corsair Vengeance K70
Software Windows 10 Pro (to be replaced by 2025)
...significant software changes will be needed to harden systems against this exploit, not only from themselves, but from operating system designers and third party app creators
Buggy updates incoming :fear:
 
Joined
Nov 4, 2005
Messages
11,654 (1.73/day)
System Name Compy 386
Processor 7800X3D
Motherboard Asus
Cooling Air for now.....
Memory 64 GB DDR5 6400Mhz
Video Card(s) 7900XTX 310 Merc
Storage Samsung 990 2TB, 2 SP 2TB SSDs and over 10TB spinning
Display(s) 56" Samsung 4K HDR
Audio Device(s) ATI HDMI
Mouse Logitech MX518
Keyboard Razer
Software A lot.
Benchmark Scores Its fast. Enough.
You can disable cpu caching and etc.. in bios.
you could also take a hacksaw to the chip because that'll essentially destroy your performance
 
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
13,210 (3.83/day)
Location
Sunshine Coast
System Name Black Box
Processor Intel Xeon E3-1260L v5
Motherboard MSI E3 KRAIT Gaming v5
Cooling Tt tower + 120mm Tt fan
Memory G.Skill 16GB 3600 C18
Video Card(s) Asus GTX 970 Mini
Storage Kingston A2000 512Gb NVME
Display(s) AOC 24" Freesync 1m.s. 75Hz
Case Corsair 450D High Air Flow.
Audio Device(s) No need.
Power Supply FSP Aurum 650W
Mouse Yes
Keyboard Of course
Software W10 Pro 64 bit
I disabled HT ages ago.
I doubt I am a priority target anyway.
 
Joined
Nov 21, 2010
Messages
2,223 (0.46/day)
Location
Right where I want to be
System Name Miami
Processor Ryzen 3800X
Motherboard Asus Crosshair VII Formula
Cooling Ek Velocity/ 2x 280mm Radiators/ Alphacool fullcover
Memory F4-3600C16Q-32GTZNC
Video Card(s) XFX 6900 XT Speedster 0
Storage 1TB WD M.2 SSD/ 2TB WD SN750/ 4TB WD Black HDD
Display(s) DELL AW3420DW / HP ZR24w
Case Lian Li O11 Dynamic XL
Audio Device(s) EVGA Nu Audio
Power Supply Seasonic Prime Gold 1000W+750W
Mouse Corsair Scimitar/Glorious Model O-
Keyboard Corsair K95 Platinum
Software Windows 10 Pro
You sir deserve a medal! Yes yes and more yes! Finally, someone with some common sense to hopefully enlighten the masses. Listen to this person! You'll notice I didn't amend anything - it was written perfectly =)

I thought similarly last time until some uni student demonstrated a remote attack via a compromised system on the same network. So yes you can point out that there is an impassable canyon in between that possibility and reality while ignoring the guy building a bridge to the left.
 

Emu

Joined
Jan 5, 2018
Messages
28 (0.01/day)
While it's still possible to actually do this securely, the pitfalls of SMT will only increase with architectural complexity, and the cost of dealing with this does too, and since the performance gains from SMT are diminishing with increasing IPC, SMT should be abandoned sooner rather than later.

Cinebench would like to disagree with your "performance gains from SMT are dimishing with increasing IPC". My Ryzen 7 2700x scores 3582 in Cinebench Release 20 with SMT enabled and 2074 with SMT disabled. I actually had to run the 8 core / 16 thread benchmark twice because I was only expecting a 30% difference. IPC increases between generations of architectures is usually in the single digit range and increased width in the instruction pipeline benefits SMT performance.
123000

123001
 
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
5,717 (0.98/day)
System Name Virtual Reality / Bioinformatics
Processor Undead CPU
Motherboard Undead TUF X99
Cooling Noctua NH-D15
Memory GSkill 128GB DDR4-3000
Video Card(s) EVGA RTX 3090 FTW3 Ultra
Storage Samsung 960 Pro 1TB + 860 EVO 2TB + WD Black 5TB
Display(s) 32'' 4K Dell
Case Fractal Design R5
Audio Device(s) BOSE 2.0
Power Supply Seasonic 850watt
Mouse Logitech Master MX
Keyboard Corsair K70 Cherry MX Blue
VR HMD HTC Vive + Oculus Quest 2
Software Windows 10 P
At this rate i may have to switch to Zen 2 TR sooner than I would like...
 
Joined
Apr 4, 2008
Messages
4,686 (0.80/day)
System Name Obelisc
Processor i7 3770k @ 4.8 GHz
Motherboard Asus P8Z77-V
Cooling H110
Memory 16GB(4x4) @ 2400 MHz 9-11-11-31
Video Card(s) GTX 780 Ti
Storage 850 EVO 1TB, 2x 5TB Toshiba
Case T81
Audio Device(s) X-Fi Titanium HD
Power Supply EVGA 850 T2 80+ TITANIUM
Software Win10 64bit
I've been confused by the "newest gen is ok" vs "newest gen is more vulnerable" comments. Is it that the newer chips are more vulnerable just specifically not to the hyper thread exploit?
 
Joined
Mar 13, 2012
Messages
396 (0.09/day)
Location
USA
I've been confused by the "newest gen is ok" vs "newest gen is more vulnerable" comments. Is it that the newer chips are more vulnerable just specifically not to the hyper thread exploit?
The report from the lab testers say the newest chips are more vulnerable, while Intel is claiming they're not, is what it appears.
 
Joined
Feb 23, 2008
Messages
1,064 (0.18/day)
Location
Montreal
System Name Aryzen / Sairikiki / Tesseract
Processor 5800x / i7 920@3.73 / 5800x
Motherboard Steel Legend B450M / GB EX58-UDP4 / Steel Legend B550M
Cooling Mugen 5 / Pure Rock / Glacier One 240
Memory Corsair Something 16 / Corsair Something 12 / G.Skill 32
Video Card(s) AMD 6800XT / AMD 6750XT / Sapphire 7800XT
Storage Way too many drives...
Display(s) LG 332GP850-B / Sony w800b / Sony X90J
Case EVOLV X / Carbide 540 / Carbide 280x
Audio Device(s) SB ZxR + GSP 500 / board / Denon X1700h + ELAC Uni-Fi 2 + Senn 6XX
Power Supply Seasonic PRIME GX-750 / Corsair HX750 / Seasonic Focus PX-650
Mouse G700 / none / G602
Keyboard G910
Software w11 64
Benchmark Scores I don't play benchmarks...
Yes, I'm sure all those people that bought i7s are simply delighted that someone is advising them to disable HT... And the "minimal" performance penalty of up to 9% sounds real nice compared to the huge 5% gaming performance advantage Intel enjoys over AMD.
 
Joined
Mar 6, 2017
Messages
3,204 (1.24/day)
Location
North East Ohio, USA
System Name My Ryzen 7 7700X Super Computer
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7700X
Motherboard Gigabyte B650 Aorus Elite AX
Cooling DeepCool AK620 with Arctic Silver 5
Memory 2x16GB G.Skill Trident Z5 NEO DDR5 EXPO (CL30)
Video Card(s) XFX AMD Radeon RX 7900 GRE
Storage Samsung 980 EVO 1 TB NVMe SSD (System Drive), Samsung 970 EVO 500 GB NVMe SSD (Game Drive)
Display(s) Acer Nitro XV272U (DisplayPort) and Acer Nitro XV270U (DisplayPort)
Case Lian Li LANCOOL II MESH C
Audio Device(s) On-Board Sound / Sony WH-XB910N Bluetooth Headphones
Power Supply MSI A850GF
Mouse Logitech M705
Keyboard Steelseries
Software Windows 11 Pro 64-bit
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/liwjs3
I am really starting to regret buying my 8700K right about now. These Intel chips are turning out to have more security holes than Internet Explorer.
 
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
20,709 (3.41/day)
System Name Pioneer
Processor Ryzen R9 7950X
Motherboard GIGABYTE Aorus Elite X670 AX
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory 64GB (4x 16GB) G.Skill Flare X5 @ DDR5-6000 CL30
Video Card(s) XFX RX 7900 XTX Speedster Merc 310
Storage 2x Crucial P5 Plus 2TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs
Display(s) 55" LG 55" B9 OLED 4K Display
Case Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s) TOSLINK->Schiit Modi MB->Asgard 2 DAC Amp->AKG Pro K712 Headphones or HDMI->B9 OLED
Power Supply FSP Hydro Ti Pro 850W
Mouse Logitech G305 Lightspeed Wireless
Keyboard WASD Code v3 with Cherry Green keyswitches
Software Windows 11 Enterprise (legit), Gentoo Linux x64
The official webpage by the guys who discovered the exploit to begin with, which I linked earlier in the thread. https://mdsattacks.com/

Must've missed it, thanks.

Now that I can reference the page and tool, it seems interesting to me the tools claims 9th gen is "not affected" by meltdown at all. Considering that was the biggest performance impacting fix from the previous batch of vulnerabilities, it's almost looking like 9th gen may have taken 2 steps forwards, only to fall 2 steps backwards.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 19, 2011
Messages
540 (0.12/day)
So the once mighty 7700k is basically an 8350k now meaning my $170 at launch 2400g will beat it now in many games.
 
Joined
Nov 3, 2007
Messages
1,700 (0.28/day)
And they keep on selling them anyways......... waiting for the next nda to expire so even the next vulnerability goes public. Something to be said about selling knowingly faulty chips under the clock of waiting for nda to lift.
 
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
13,210 (3.83/day)
Location
Sunshine Coast
System Name Black Box
Processor Intel Xeon E3-1260L v5
Motherboard MSI E3 KRAIT Gaming v5
Cooling Tt tower + 120mm Tt fan
Memory G.Skill 16GB 3600 C18
Video Card(s) Asus GTX 970 Mini
Storage Kingston A2000 512Gb NVME
Display(s) AOC 24" Freesync 1m.s. 75Hz
Case Corsair 450D High Air Flow.
Audio Device(s) No need.
Power Supply FSP Aurum 650W
Mouse Yes
Keyboard Of course
Software W10 Pro 64 bit
Is Intel going to use this as an excuse to delay the launch of Gen 10? :rolleyes:
My bet is on a revision of 9 first.
 
Joined
Mar 31, 2012
Messages
828 (0.19/day)
Location
NL
System Name SIGSEGV
Processor INTEL i7-7700K | AMD Ryzen 2700X
Motherboard QUANTA | ASUS Crosshair VII Hero
Cooling Air cooling 4 heatpipes | Corsair H115i | Noctua NF-A14 IndustrialPPC Fan 3000RPM
Memory Micron 16 Gb DDR4 2400 | GSkill Ripjaws 32Gb DDR4 3200 3400(OC) 14-14-14-34 @1.38v
Video Card(s) Nvidia 1060 6GB | Gigabyte 1080Ti Aorus
Storage 1TB 7200/256 SSD PCIE | ~ TB | 970 Evo
Display(s) 15,5" / 27"
Case Black & Grey | Phanteks P400S
Audio Device(s) Realtek
Power Supply Li Battery | Seasonic Focus Gold 750W
Mouse g402
Keyboard Leopold|Ducky
Software LinuxMint KDE |UBUNTU | Windows 10 PRO
Benchmark Scores i dont care about scores
Ryzen 5 3500U here i come..
 
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Messages
6,457 (1.41/day)
Processor Intel® Core™ i7-13700K
Motherboard Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite AX
Cooling Noctua NH-D15
Memory 32GB(2x16) DDR5@6600MHz G-Skill Trident Z5
Video Card(s) ZOTAC GAMING GeForce RTX 3080 AMP Holo
Storage 2TB SK Platinum P41 SSD + 4TB SanDisk Ultra SSD + 500GB Samsung 840 EVO SSD
Display(s) Acer Predator X34 3440x1440@100Hz G-Sync
Case NZXT PHANTOM410-BK
Audio Device(s) Creative X-Fi Titanium PCIe
Power Supply Corsair 850W
Mouse Logitech Hero G502 SE
Software Windows 11 Pro - 64bit
Benchmark Scores 30FPS in NFS:Rivals
At least those are public and not kept secret anymore. I doubt those affect the average Joe user using the PC for mundane tasks...
 
Joined
Mar 6, 2017
Messages
3,204 (1.24/day)
Location
North East Ohio, USA
System Name My Ryzen 7 7700X Super Computer
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7700X
Motherboard Gigabyte B650 Aorus Elite AX
Cooling DeepCool AK620 with Arctic Silver 5
Memory 2x16GB G.Skill Trident Z5 NEO DDR5 EXPO (CL30)
Video Card(s) XFX AMD Radeon RX 7900 GRE
Storage Samsung 980 EVO 1 TB NVMe SSD (System Drive), Samsung 970 EVO 500 GB NVMe SSD (Game Drive)
Display(s) Acer Nitro XV272U (DisplayPort) and Acer Nitro XV270U (DisplayPort)
Case Lian Li LANCOOL II MESH C
Audio Device(s) On-Board Sound / Sony WH-XB910N Bluetooth Headphones
Power Supply MSI A850GF
Mouse Logitech M705
Keyboard Steelseries
Software Windows 11 Pro 64-bit
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/liwjs3
At least those are public and not kept secret anymore. I doubt those affect the average Joe user using the PC for mundane tasks...
But the question that I have is... How many more skeletons does Intel have in their closets? How many more exploits are there that are just waiting to be found?

In some ways, I don't want to know.:fear:
 

TheLostSwede

News Editor
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Messages
15,996 (2.26/day)
Location
Sweden
System Name Overlord Mk MLI
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard Gigabyte X670E Aorus Master
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 SE with offsets
Memory 32GB Team T-Create Expert DDR5 6000 MHz @ CL30-34-34-68
Video Card(s) Gainward GeForce RTX 4080 Phantom GS
Storage 1TB Solidigm P44 Pro, 2 TB Corsair MP600 Pro, 2TB Kingston KC3000
Display(s) Acer XV272K LVbmiipruzx 4K@160Hz
Case Fractal Design Torrent Compact
Audio Device(s) Corsair Virtuoso SE
Power Supply be quiet! Pure Power 12 M 850 W
Mouse Logitech G502 Lightspeed
Keyboard Corsair K70 Max
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/5za05v
AMD seems to at least be partially affected. No patches applied yet on Windows 10.
Edit: Updating Windows today made no difference the list of vulnerabilities...

123011
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 2, 2018
Messages
273 (0.12/day)
They are releasing these news now, because they want people with gen 7 and below to go and buy gen8/9 because these gens can work with HT enabled and be safe.

So it the upgare of the cpu not for better performance, but for better protection.

$$$
 
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
959 (0.18/day)
Location
Currently somewhere around NSW, Australia
System Name hmmm... / lappy (ASUS Scar III)
Processor Intel Core i7-8086K / Intel Core i7-9750H
Motherboard ASUS Maximus XI Formula / ASUS G531GW
Cooling Noctua NH-D15s w/ 2 x Noctua NF-F12 PWM Chromax and 1 x Noctua NF-A15 HS-PWM Chromax Fans / Stock
Memory 4x16gb G.Skill Trident Z DDR4 3600mhz / 2x16gb Kingston Hyper X Impact DDR4 2666mhz C15
Video Card(s) 2 x EVGA GTX 1080 TI FTW3 / Nvidia RTX 2070 8gb
Storage 2 x Samsung 960 EVO Plus 1tb NVME/ 1tb Intel SSDPEKNW010T8 NVME + 2tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD
Display(s) Acer Predator X34P / ASUS 15.6" Screen
Case Fractal Design Meshify S2 White-TG + Noctua Chromax Fans / ASUS Scar III Case
Audio Device(s) Onboard + Logitech Z623 / Onboard
Power Supply Seasonic Prime Ultra Titanium 1000W + PROLINK PRO903WS / ASUS ADP-230GB B Power Brick
Mouse Corsair Vengeance M65 PRO RGB / Logitech MX Anywhere 2S
Keyboard Corsair K70 LUX RGB / ASUS Scar III Keyboard
Software Windows 10 Professional x64 / Windows 10 Professional x64
They are releasing these news now, because they want people with gen 7 and below to go and buy gen8/9 because these gens can work with HT enabled and be safe.

So it the upgare of the cpu not for better performance, but for better protection.

$$$

With Ryzen 2 coming, most, I think, would upgrade to AMD rather than Intel's 8th oe 9th gen cpus.
 
Joined
Feb 18, 2005
Messages
5,239 (0.75/day)
Location
Ikenai borderline!
System Name Firelance.
Processor Threadripper 3960X
Motherboard ROG Strix TRX40-E Gaming
Cooling IceGem 360 + 6x Arctic Cooling P12
Memory 8x 16GB Patriot Viper DDR4-3200 CL16
Video Card(s) MSI GeForce RTX 4060 Ti Ventus 2X OC
Storage 2TB WD SN850X (boot), 4TB Crucial P3 (data)
Display(s) 3x AOC Q32E2N (32" 2560x1440 75Hz)
Case Enthoo Pro II Server Edition (Closed Panel) + 6 fans
Power Supply Fractal Design Ion+ 2 Platinum 760W
Mouse Logitech G602
Keyboard Logitech G613
Software Windows 10 Professional x64

Ars Technica said:
Today a microcode update for Sandy Bridge through first-generation Coffee Lake and Whiskey Lake chips will ship.

...

For systems dependent on microcode fixes, Intel says that the performance overhead will typically be under three percent but, under certain unfavorable workloads, could be somewhat higher.

This isn't sounding nearly as bad as Spectre/Meltdown, either in the ability to exploit or in the performance impact of mitigations.

Rävenlord, someone needs to profo raed yuor hihgspede typnig. Pellscheck?


View attachment 122988

I've long given up on expecting basic editorial standards from TPU.
 
Top