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Zen 4 gets slower the longer the PC runs?

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when my PC runs for longer than 15-20 Hours opening anything takes a second or two longer than usual, after 2-3 days even typing has a delay on screen and after 4-5 days the PC becomes unuseable. like running a Pentium D...
i can reproduce this with two Zen 4 CPUs and two motherboards on clean windows 11 pro installations with tested hardware and 100% verified stability (even running everything stock incl. JEDEC RAM speeds and timings)
i have this problem since maybe a month or two and i tried everything to fix it without success.
this does NOT happen on Zen 3 or any LGA1700 CPU that i own.
any ideas?
Is there any chance those CPU's were subject to the SOC overvolting issue for any significant duration of time before UEFI fixes for that were applied?
 
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Did you look in Task Manager and Resource Monitor to see what is running and hogging resources when it slows down?
that's the problem. the system idles at 1% CPU Load, 5-6GB of RAM usage and neither SSD nor any GPU load.
That's why I also said to look and see what "is running". Under Processes, look to see if you have a bunch of the same processes running. Chrome is infamous for this. Edge (my default) is not a lot better so it seems to be a Chromium thing.

Note I never reboot or shut down unless some update requires a reboot, or I will be away for days. That is, I just let my computers go to sleep and that means I may go several weeks without a reboot.

I've seen where I experienced a lag in keyboard response and/or jumpy mouse movements and other "sluggish" issues. I often see with Chrome and only one tab open, there may be dozens of Google Chrome instances of listed in TM, none eating up a lot of CPU resources, but each consuming megabytes (often 100s of MB) of RAM. Right now, I have Chrome open and only my home page (Google search) displayed - yet Task Manager shows 10 instances running and almost .5GB of RAM being consumed! :(

My solution, either kill chrome (I have a shortcut for that), sign out and back in (not my favorite solution) or reboot (the "aspirin" fix for many Windows problems).
 
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What do you need to do to restore the full performance? Log out? Reboot? Remove the power?
just reboot and everything is fine again.

Hi,
Any slow response I've ever had were tied to hibernation and ssd's not quite working well with it
If performance mode doesn't work well enough just use CMD
Code:
powercfg -h off
i always disable hibernate and fast startup.


Is there any chance those CPU's were subject to the SOC overvolting issue for any significant duration of time before UEFI fixes for that were applied?
No. All CPUs were Purchased after the SoC thing was fixed and they run at just 1.15V with my memory OC or 1.25V Stock.


That's why I also said to look and see what "is running". Under Processes, look to see if you have a bunch of the same processes running. Chrome is infamous for this. Edge (my default) is not a lot better so it seems to be a Chromium thing.
i don't have any chromium browser on my system (i can uninstall Edge in Europe) and i have nothing unusual running under processes. it even happens when i completely wipe the drive and just install windows. from the same thumbdrive where i installed it on my Zen 3 and Raptorlake systems (where it does not happen)

Sounds like RAM/IF instability
incl. y-cruncher over night. up to 2133 FCLK is stable. i run my CPU and RAM Stock (EXPO)
7800X3D Memtest.png

Hell I was leaning towards sketchy ssd ?
SMART Values for my SSDs are all flawless :/


Got any peripherals attached? (Printer, etc.)
[I've seen old drivers for printers get a sort of 'interrupt leak' where it keeps slowing things down over time, but little to no CPU load. Same w/ bunk UPS/Laptopbatts 'spamming' ACPI, too.]

Since, you have a large collection, you don't have like a NAS or something set up on these? Perhaps a network/storage caching policy?

fTPM related? (that's supposed to cause stuttering and slow overall perf. Had that happen, myself.)
Nothing attached except mouse and keyboard and no NAS.
TPM is sketchy but i tried the no TPM and no Secureboot Rufus installation (and had both disabled in bios) with no effect.
 
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dgianstefani

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incl. y-cruncher over night. up to 2133 FCLK is stable. i run my CPU and RAM Stock (EXPO)
View attachment 342214
Yeah it's stable till it downclocks then bugs out. Hence forcing IF/RAM to never downclock is a good idea.

So many PC bugs and issues like this i've seen fixed with static clocks and manual voltages.
 
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Yeah it's stable till it downclocks then bugs out. Hence forcing IF/RAM to never downclock is a good idea.
reminds me:
Had major performance and stability problems w/ my B450 build. Kept forgetting to set SoC/IF "OC Mode" (locks to full performance state)
 
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What kind of drivers are you installing after Windows? Perhaps you have a bad driver
reminds me:
Had major performance and stability problems w/ my B450 build. Kept forgetting to set SoC/IF "OC Mode" (locks to full performance state)
I never knew IF could downclock. Is there a tool that shows when this happens?
 

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What kind of drivers are you installing after Windows? Perhaps you have a bad driver

I never knew IF could downclock. Is there a tool that shows when this happens?
Sounds like RAM/IF instability

Disable all downclocking/power saving features.

No power down, disable DF C states, SoC Core/uncore OC mode enabled.

Manually set DRAM/memory controller voltages too.
Yup, IF downclocks under low load for "power savings" etc.

Dunno about tools, I don't care, since mine never downclocks.
 
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i don't have any chromium browser on my system
:( It was just an example of how a program can consume resources when not, or barely running. I was not saying to look for "Chrome" for "Edge" specifically. Only to look for programs that have an unexpected number of incidences running. That does not mean they are the problem. It just means that is something to investigate further.
 
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What kind of drivers are you installing after Windows? Perhaps you have a bad driver

I never knew IF could downclock. Is there a tool that shows when this happens?
Ryzen Master is supposed to show 'most accurately'' HWinfo can 'pick it up' too.
There's probably other tools, but those are the two I've used, that show SoC/IF.
 
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Hi,
Yeah had to note the ssd I've had a 970 evo and a 970 evo+ go out recently both 500gb
They showed delays after pasting files....
System imaged onto a 980 pro and all good.
 
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:( It was just an example of how a program can consume resources when not, or barely running. I was not saying to look for "Chrome" for "Edge" specifically. Only to look for programs that have an unexpected number of incidences running. That does not mean they are the problem. It just means that is something to investigate further.
basically nothing besides svchost, system, system interrupt, explorer, settings, taskmanager itself, Nvidia Display Container, idle process, registry, runteimebroker, defender, application frame host.
process explorer shows as well that the system is truly idling and has nothing in the background that consumes any ressources :(

What kind of drivers are you installing after Windows? Perhaps you have a bad driver
NVidia drivers without geforce experience and AMD Chipset Drivers.
 

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Ryzen Master is supposed to show 'most accurately'' HWinfo can 'pick it up' too.
There's probably other tools, but those are the two I've used, that show SoC/IF.
All the monitoring software costs resources/interrupts for the kernel etc.

It's nice to validate a tune, but after that best uninstalled.

OCCT is good for monitoring if you need to for some reason, portable software.
 
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I do not see how instability would make the PC slower, it would crash it, maybe. But slow it down ? Don't see how.
 

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I do not see how instability would make the PC slower, it would crash it, maybe. But slow it down ? Don't see how.
Semi ECC VRAM and semi ECC RAM just gets slower as it becomes more unstable. Same goes for IF clocks that down clock and don't resume the proper frequency.

That's how.

When you have understanding of how and why these frequencies work, you start to know why locked clocks are desirable.

Gear down/power down, mobo algorithms setting subtimings each boot, variable voltages etc. These all cause issues.

DDR5, GDDR6 AND GDDR6X are all semi ECC BTW.

So no, it's not just data corruption that results from dynamic clocks/unstable systems (including those that are "stable" at boot, but become unstable over time due to temps, clock switching etc.

All voltages and frequencies should be determined manually, not by mobo algorithms, or you're basically asking for trouble on Zen.

When system is under load it doesn't downclock, hence the issues that slip past stability tests.

DPC latencies are a good way to tell if your clocks are screwing your experience.

Funnily enough despite the raving of how good the Zen 4 framework 13 is, it has 3x the dropped frames in video playback as tested by notebookcheck.net than the raptor Lake variant. Lo and behold, DPC latency issues and web browsing latency spikes.

Somehow has 17.5ns higher memory latency with 5600 soldered RAM too compared to 3200/22 JEDEC (no XMP) DDR4 SODIMMS on the Intel.

Screenshot_20240405_234316.png
 
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Semi ECC VRAM and semi ECC RAM just gets slower as it becomes more unstable. Same goes for IF clocks that down clock and don't resume the proper frequency.

That's how.

When you have understanding of how and why these frequencies work, you start to know why locked clocks are desirable.

Gear down/power down, mobo algorithms setting subtimings each boot, variable voltages etc. These all cause issues.

DDR5, GDDR6 AND GDDR6X are all semi ECC BTW.

So no, it's not just data corruption that results from dynamic clocks/unstable systems (including those that are "stable" at boot, but become unstable over time due to temps, clock switching etc.

All voltages and frequencies should be determined manually, not by mobo algorithms, or you're basically asking for trouble on Zen.

When system is under load it doesn't downclock, hence the issues that slip past stability tests.

DPC latencies are a good way to tell if your clocks are screwing your experience.
Is there a way to reproduce this issue in a few minutes rather than a few days?
 

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Is there a way to reproduce this issue in a few minutes rather than a few days?
Maybe.

I don't know because I simply run static IF/memory clocks and don't have issues.

Same for my GPU, core and VRAM run at set voltage and frequency using Afterburner profile. No dynamic clocks for me. 950 mV and 2050 MHz core, forgot what VRAM is but faster than stock, on phone so can't be bothered to check.

reminds me:
Had major performance and stability problems w/ my B450 build. Kept forgetting to set SoC/IF "OC Mode" (locks to full performance state)
Same thing with AM4, locking IF/RAM made things more stable.
 
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Benchmark Scores Are in the benchmark section
Hi,
I could be wrong but I doubt you could find a larger picture there buddy hehe
 

dgianstefani

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Less thermal cycle load from constantly changing voltages/temperatures too, but that's also due to custom loop with a big reservoir to handle heatspikes.

Hi,
I could be wrong but I doubt you could find a larger picture there buddy hehe
Phone screenshot it's 3040x1440.
 
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I had an AMD laptop that did this, there was something wrong with the Radeon video driver. Windows just got slower and slower, requiring a reboot every few days.
 
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Phone screenshot it's 3040x1440.
Thumbnails, mate.... thumbnails. :laugh:
(I know, the mobile ver. of TPU is different.)
Is there a way to reproduce this issue in a few minutes rather than a few days?
If it *is* slow accumulation of RAM errors, theoretically throwing a Memory-weighted stress test/task @ it, might accelerate the problem.
 
Last edited:

tabascosauz

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incl. y-cruncher over night. up to 2133 FCLK is stable. i run my CPU and RAM Stock (EXPO)

SMART Values for my SSDs are all flawless :/

What's curious to me is thread 16 looking like it's running out of Fabric bandwidth. I've only seen that phenomenon on the 12- and 16-core Raphaels running HCI, I think it happens somewhere around the 10th or 11th core mark (ie. beyond thread 20)? Usually I would run all threads to 1000%+ to be considered overnight stable. But if you say things are stable, I'll believe you. I don't think it's memory related as I've always only run stable profiles on my daily but still had the issue back then.

Have you ever swapped the drives around between your systems? Around the same time I had those symptoms, I had a SN750 RMA. Never displayed any SMART issues but progressively had more and more inexplicable wonky behaviour and finally died altogether.

Only other thing I can think of is C-states. Probably not a very likely culprit.

What kind of drivers are you installing after Windows? Perhaps you have a bad driver

I never knew IF could downclock. Is there a tool that shows when this happens?

Fabric has been capable of downclocking for a while now. It's essential for mobile (which also usually does not run 1:1 UMC, for power reasons), and more aggressive there. Any monitoring software worth its salt can show it - it's just that the "desktop" parts (excluding desktop APUs) usually do not out of the box, whether it's because they default to SOC/Uncore OC Mode ON or some other auto-rule set by hardware/board vendors/AGESA.

I doubt it has to do with Uncore OC, because you can disable it on chiplet parts and they still won't downclock, or enable it on the APUs (at least Cezanne and Renoir) and it won't stop them from downclocking. It's just about the flakiest, least consistent feature in AGESA.
 
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Have you ever swapped the drives around between your systems?
so far i tried two drives. (both work fine with Zen 3 and RPL)
Have you used a performance power plan and just set it's minimum processor state to 5% ?
ran for over 9 Hours set up like this and opening the windows settings freezes the PC for a second before it opens... no fix :(

Is there a way to reproduce this issue in a few minutes rather than a few days?
Nope. :confused:
i can stresstest, game, idle, have youtube on autoplay for the whole day. everything is fine until the PC runs for ~12 Hours and then it starts to slow down.

i currently set up a second drive with linux and check if it's happening there.
 
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Benchmark Scores Are in the benchmark section
so far i tried two drives. (both work fine with Zen 3 and RPL)

ran for over 9 Hours set up like this and opening the windows settings freezes the PC for a second before it opens... no fix :(


Nope. :confused:
i can stresstest, game, idle, have youtube on autoplay for the whole day. everything is fine until the PC runs for ~12 Hours and then it starts to slow down.

i currently set up a second drive with linux and check if it's happening there.
Hi,
Bummer although setting page ?
I would be more interested in how local folders would be reacting more that bloated settings page
Hell you can access anything from winkey+x menu see if it stalls.
 

Keullo-e

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Techpowerup is a computer/tech enthusiast forum so setups like this are not unusual.
Exactly. I have four working desktop machines currently + few laptops. :D
 
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