Saturday, May 12th 2012

TIM is Behind Ivy Bridge Temperatures After All

It's proven: the thermal interface material (TIM) used by Intel, inside the integrated heatspreader (IHS) of its Core "Ivy Bridge" processors are behind its higher than expected load temperatures. This assertion was first made in late-April by an Overclockers.com report, and was recently put to test by Japanese tech portal PC Watch, in which an investigator carefully removed the IHS of a Core i7-3770K processor, removed the included TIM and binding grease, and replaced them with a pair of aftermarket performance TIMs, such as OCZ Freeze and Coolaboratory Liquid Pro.

PC Watch findings show that swapping the TIM, if done right, can shave stock clock (3.5 GHz, Auto voltage) temperatures by as much as 18% (lowest temperatures by the Coolaboratory TIM), and 4.00 GHz @ 1.2V temperatures by as much as 23% (again, lowest temperatures on the Coolaboratory TIM). The change in TIM was also change the overclockability of the chip, which was then able to sustain higher core voltages to facilitate higher core clock speeds. The report concluded that Intel's decision to use thermal paste inside the IHS of its Ivy Bridge chips, instead of fluxless solder, poses a very real impact on temperatures and overclockability.

Source: PC Watch
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219 Comments on TIM is Behind Ivy Bridge Temperatures After All

#1
ensabrenoir
by: bmwmaster
Hahahahaa !

I sucessfully shaved IHS off from my 3570k.
Removed socket holder and directly mounted the Heatkiller waterblock on it !

I now have 15 °C better Temps !

Before i had 4,6 Hhz @ 1.32 V @ 80°C

Now i have the same config @ 65 °C.

So its a nice drop !!!:)
:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

BRAVE....BRAVE...SOUL......:rockout:
Posted on Reply
#2
Atom_Anti
Here is an Intel Pentium 4 Celeron 1,7GHz (Willamette, SL69Z), which also used Thermal paste:


My job and photo:).
Posted on Reply
#3
qubit
Overclocked quantum bit
I can't believe Intel spent a decade and poured all those billions into developing their impressive 3D transistors, only to squander that advantage over some crappy TIM! :nutkick:

I promise you it wasn't the engineers that wanted it, but the marketers and beancounters within the company. The arguments must have been something else. Shame none of that leaked out.

I'm so glad I didn't jump into IB and got my lovely 2700K. :D

Right, you heard this prediction here first: Intel will backpedal on this decision now that this is out and make a new version of IB with either better TIM or a proper solder connection. They will then offer an optional recall of these processors soon after for the fixed versions.
Posted on Reply
#4
Laurijan
by: bmwmaster
Hahahahaa !

I sucessfully shaved IHS off from my 3570k.
Removed socket holder and directly mounted the Heatkiller waterblock on it !

I now have 15 °C better Temps !

Before i had 4,6 Hhz @ 1.32 V @ 80°C

Now i have the same config @ 65 °C.

So its a nice drop !!!:)
Tell us how you removed it please.
Posted on Reply
#5
Dent1
by: bmwmaster
Hahahahaa !

I sucessfully shaved IHS off from my 3570k.
Removed socket holder and directly mounted the Heatkiller waterblock on it !

I now have 15 °C better Temps !

Before i had 4,6 Hhz @ 1.32 V @ 80°C

Now i have the same config @ 65 °C.

So its a nice drop !!!:)
Those are not great temps. Your CPU should not reach 65c unless its at 100% load for an extended period of time.
Posted on Reply
#6
bmwmaster
I have made an IHS removal movie !!! I will upload it tomorrow for those who are interested.
But it isn´t so difficult, just used an razor and cut around. About 15 minutes of work.

The 65° C of course are under 100 % load with linx.

Now i can tell something about behavior with higher Vcore.

I raised vCore from 1.32 V to 1.44 V. Temps went up from 65°C to 73°C (also raised clock to 4.8 Ghz).

Ivy bridge for me now behaves like sandy bridge did. Temps are near the same. I can push cpu now about 200 Mhz further with higher Vcore and lower temp.

I think 4.8 Ghz is the Wall for my CPU..........anyway, so it still doeasn´t clock so good like Sandy bridge.
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#7
badtaylorx
not trieng to be a dik here.....but your temps will drop if you re install that heat spreader with a proper tim!!!
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#8
cadaveca
My name is Dave
by: bmwmaster
Ivy bridge for me now behaves like sandy bridge did. Temps are near the same. I can push cpu now about 200 Mhz further with higher Vcore and lower temp.
Ivy isn'y Sandy; expecting similar stuff from an entirely differnt process is well...um...yeah...


Cool you get some results, to eb honest, but at the same time, I think that Intel has done the right thing. Many OC'ers will outright pull IHS, viod warranty, and all is good. Other will not, and will retain warranty, albeit while running slightly lower clocks and volts.


Voiding warranty for 200 MHz, to me seems not worth it?
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#9
SuperSonic X 316
Quick question, for an air heatsink cooler, can you just remove the HIS, reapply the paste, and put the heatsink over the exposed CPU or do you have to use certain heatsinks / do something else?
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#10
cadaveca
My name is Dave
any heatsink will do, but IHS shoudl be repalced after using new TIM. Surface tension of the paste and pressure from retention bracket should keep IHS in place.
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#11
ironwolf
As posed in a previous post by someone else over warranty, I am presuming everyone doing this doesn't give a hoot about any warranty? I have never personally had a CPU die (don't OC or anything personally), so maybe it's not a real worry?
Posted on Reply
#12
20mmrain
I have been playing with a i7 3770K for about 18 hours now. Somethings I've noticed with temps....

The temps don't seem to be helped all that much with Water cooling. (this I don't quit Understand) for example I am running mine @ 4.5 Ghz 1.17v to 1.18v and I get 67c hottest core during Large FTT Prime and 71c Hottest core during 20 runs of LinX. (The rest of the cores are in the high 50c's and 1 low 60c's)
It seems with a good Air cooler people are not experiencing that much higher temps... then what I am getting at similar clocks and voltages.

Some good news I noticed is... while playing Metro 2033, BF3, and Crysis I saw the hottest core get up to 40c. (Other cores were in the mid to upper 30c's range) So while these Cpu's do get hot under stress testing they stay rather cool under normal gaming usage even overclocked.

So I just thought I would throw this out there.... I have tried re-seating my CPU block several times.... I am using a high end TIM.
The reason I am bringing this up is Because I don't know if I believe these temps are only related to the TIM under the (IHS) or not. Sure I believe that removing it will help some what... but it would on most CPU's.... so would lapping the CPU.
I think that we are all just going to have to face it.... and realize that Ivy Bridge is a warm running CPU.
On the other hand.... it sure would be nice if Intel would change the TIM being used and do a recall. It would for sure help somewhat!

If I decide not to sell this CPU.... I might try taking off the IHS for my own experiments.... but i am not sure about that yet.

BTW... Does anyone know if Intel released a Tcase temp for this CPU yet?
Posted on Reply
#13
cadaveca
My name is Dave
by: 20mmrain
BTW... Does anyone know if Intel released a Tcase temp for this CPU yet?
Yes, it's in the Whitepapers for 3rd Generation Core i5/i7 CPUs on their site.
Posted on Reply
#14
bmwmaster
I can say that the tim under the ihs is the main reason for high temps. With ihs i never would push 1.44 V on core cause temps would go fastly above 100 °C.

Without ihs they are at 73°C and that is similary like other cpus i had (q9550, i7 920, i7 950, i7 2700k)

I dont think replacing cooler, more pressure, better tim etc. will help. I tested all and nothing helped.

I just waited that someone proves that tim is the reason for the heat and not cpu itself.
As i read the news, it was clear that i have to take ihs off and im happy with it.
I would do it again..........especially cause summer comes and temps are getting hotter here.
Posted on Reply
#15
cadaveca
My name is Dave
Until there is proof that the high temps that Ivy reports are affecting stability or the lifespan of the CPU, then I might have interest in any of this, but as it stands, Sure, it allows for lower temps, which then allow for more voltage, but I've yet to ehar that it's helped anyone get more with the same voltage!!!


Like, what is these chips are fine @ 90c and 1.25 V for 5 years? and what if 1.3V will kill CPU in 18 months no matter the temps....removal of IHS may actually give false security that may lead to many dead chips in the future....
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#16
jihadjoe
by: badtaylorx
not trieng to be a dik here.....but your temps will drop if you re install that heat spreader with a proper tim!!!
How? Reinstalling the IHS means you have two layers of thermal interface, as opposed to just one. It's nothing but a metal plate, so you might as well seat your HSF/waterblock directly on top of the CPU.

I honestly can't see how:
CPU -> TIM -> IHS -> TIM -> HSF

can be cooler than:
CPU -> TIM -> HSF
Posted on Reply
#17
cadaveca
My name is Dave
by: jihadjoe
How? Reinstalling the IHS means you have two layers of thermal interface, as opposed to just one. It's nothing but a metal plate, so you might as well seat your HSF/waterblock directly on top of the CPU.

I honestly can't see how:
CPU -> TIM -> IHS -> TIM -> HSF

can be cooler than:
CPU -> TIM -> HSF
You cannot use retention bracket with IHS removed, which makes it hard to give CPU correct pressure. It is also not quite that easy to get even pressure across the core when using block mountings. With very careful block palcement, it could be better, for sure, but it's much easier to just replace TIMM, put IHS on top, and crank it down as far as it will go..with no fear of cracking the core.
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#18
Jstn7477
I'm a little disappointed they used thermal paste on these, because anyone who deals with older builds and early lidded CPUs (P4/Athlon 64) knows that they definitely run hotter the more they've aged. I'm pretty sure all my old Northwoods and Athlon 64s idle around 50c but I haven't done any real testing with those recently.
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#19
T4C Fantasy
CPU & GPU DB Maintainer
by: SuperSonic X 316
I upgraded to an Ivy Bridge from a Phenom II; this is pretty disappointing to hear and has kind of left me with a bad image of Intel. : Still looking forward to Haswell for another upgrade though.
there is nothing to be disappointed about, the phenom cant beat the 3770k in any benchmark anyways lol
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#20
tttony
15°???

wow that is lot temps diff!!
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#21
D007
I'm not surprised. Look at the stock coolers that come with intel processors. Absolute garbage. You pretty much have to replace them.

by: Dent1
Those are not great temps. Your CPU should not reach 65c unless its at 100% load for an extended period of time.
65c "under load" is totally normal in this day and age imo.
Posted on Reply
#22
Xzibit
Unless I'm reading this wrong with the translator

This is on AIR

A Ivy-Bridge 3770K 4.6ghz @ 1.2V = a Sandy-Bridge 2600k 4.8ghz @ 1.4

Doesnt sound that out of the ordinary even with the temps
Posted on Reply
#23
20mmrain
by: cadaveca
Yes, it's in the Whitepapers for 3rd Generation Core i5/i7 CPUs on their site.
Show me.... or.... type it out please
Posted on Reply
#24
OneCool
by: arterius2
i'm sure someone will come up with the idea to mount the HSF directly to the bare chip (without the IHS) and lower the temps even further :laugh:
^This
Posted on Reply
#25
erocker
by: T4C Fantasy
there is nothing to be disappointed about, the phenom cant beat the 3770k in any benchmark anyways lol
But if you have a 2600k/2700k, there's no reason to get Ivy Bridge.. Unless your current SB chip is a complete dud.
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