So it is like having 3 different engines to acoount for? Like if we take Mantle for AMD, DX for legacy, nvidias implementation of mantle(if they are willing to embrace into developing it for their arhitecture or whatever they come up with) in the future? Then still DX will take the win as it is the least hardware dependent as everything needs to go through a wrapper layer that DX is and DX interfaces with the hardware. DirectX offers a standard compared to proprietary tech such as OpenGL does, its just the fact that all generations support different versions of OpenGL with all those minor .1,.2 versions while DX9 was the standard for 3 or 4 gens DX10 for 2 and DX11 for 3 or 4 more depending on the maker and OpenGL support was always different between generations and sometimes even between AMD and NV in the same gen. They will be always going to write the least code for the same program and not rewrite it 3 times. BF4 is an experiment probably well funded by the AMD part too and not just EA, to convert Frostbyte Engine to Mantle, but not many companies will afford to maintain 2 different implementations, even 1 is too much with the sloppy console ports that are just thrown at the PC users and then left to die.

zsolt_93So it is like having 3 different engines to acoount for? Like if we take Mantle for AMD, DX for legacy, nvidias implementation of mantle(if they are willing to embrace into developing it for their arhitecture or whatever they come up with) in the future? Then still DX will take the win as it is the least hardware dependent as everything needs to go through a wrapper layer that DX is and DX interfaces with the hardware. DirectX offers a standard compared to proprietary tech such as OpenGL does, its just the fact that all generations support different versions of OpenGL with all those minor .1,.2 versions while DX9 was the standard for 3 or 4 gens DX10 for 2 and DX11 for 3 or 4 more depending on the maker and OpenGL support was always different between generations and sometimes even between AMD and NV in the same gen. They will be always going to write the least code for the same program and not rewrite it 3 times. BF4 is an experiment probably well funded by the AMD part too and not just EA, to convert Frostbyte Engine to Mantle, but not many companies will afford to maintain 2 different implementations, even 1 is too much with the sloppy console ports that are just thrown at the PC users and then left to die.

It's 2014, there are three major gaming platforms, PS4, XBone and PC. IF developers are interested in reducing costs, it's in their best interest to do so (reduced costs means shorter development cycles.)
DICE is just banking on bringing something similar to what they're working with on the PS4 to the PC which gives them some flexibility and programmability.. something developers actually seem to like. On the other hand, we have the Xbone and their implementation of DirectX. If The presentation of DICE is true, Mantle is pretty close to what they do on the PS4. For all we know, it might be easier for them to port code from the PS4 then to convert DirectX from the xbone or vice versa.

DX9 lasted for 3 gens, but there were variances between each DirectX9 version, remember 9.0c and Far Cry?
DirectX 10 was only one gen. (from an AMD perspective) and the same goes for 10.1

I don't play BF4 and I don't really care much for Mantle at the moment. I'm just downloading because new drivers.

zsolt_93So it is like having 3 different engines to acoount for? Like if we take Mantle for AMD, DX for legacy, nvidias implementation of mantle(if they are willing to embrace into developing it for their arhitecture or whatever they come up with) in the future? Then still DX will take the win as it is the least hardware dependent as everything needs to go through a wrapper layer that DX is and DX interfaces with the hardware. DirectX offers a standard compared to proprietary tech such as OpenGL does, its just the fact that all generations support different versions of OpenGL with all those minor .1,.2 versions while DX9 was the standard for 3 or 4 gens DX10 for 2 and DX11 for 3 or 4 more depending on the maker and OpenGL support was always different between generations and sometimes even between AMD and NV in the same gen. They will be always going to write the least code for the same program and not rewrite it 3 times. BF4 is an experiment probably well funded by the AMD part too and not just EA, to convert Frostbyte Engine to Mantle, but not many companies will afford to maintain 2 different implementations, even 1 is too much with the sloppy console ports that are just thrown at the PC users and then left to die.

Not engines, API. It is quite different as an API is not a game engine, it's just the language that programmers use to dialogue with the hardware via the drivers and built in hardware features, so they can write the program just once and it will work on very different hardware as long as the drivers and the hardware are built to support those functions.
This is also the reason why sometimes fixing something to work better in a situation can break something else and the drivers require extensive beta testing before reaching a stable release.

I'm pretty happy with these's drivers, Star Swarm had a very nice increase. And of coarse BF4 it's fully supported, but there is a slight increase in frames. But with a game that has so many other issues, this doesn't really bother me much. By the time the issues get fix Mantle should be more stable.

:toast:

CrackerJackI'm pretty happy with these's drivers, Star Swarm had a very nice increase. And of coarse BF4 it's fully supported, but there is a slight increase in frames. But with a game that has so many other issues, this doesn't really bother me much. By the time the issues get fix Mantle should be more stable.

:toast:

I think by the time them issues get fixed, Mantle will have died of old age ...


Jokes aside, a new milestone has been reached and regardless of the outcome of Mantle, it's foundations are set: this may turn out to be one of those situations of "before Mantle" and "after Mantle".

Time will tell.

Metro 2033 and CS:GO seem to run a bit smoother frame latency wise with my 7950.

well....:



Ya'all can come to your own conclusions. Me, I see 100% boost with 7970 using mantle.

_larryMetro 2033 and CS:GO seem to run a bit smoother frame latency wise with my 7950.

Mantle = actual GCN driver, should have been launched with 7-series, but AMD had issues with memory management, remember? With that said, time for me to stop posting on TPU. Have fun guys!

Blue screen 100% of the time on battlefield 4
BCCode: 116
BCP1: FFFFFA800792F010
BCP2: FFFFF88009524DBC
BCP3: 0000000000000000
BCP4: 0000000000000002
OS Version: 6_1_7601
Service Pack: 1_0
Product: 768_1
Problem Event Name: BlueScreen
OS Version: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.768.3
Locale ID: 2057

Solaris17can someone tell me why this beta driver doesnt work flawlessly please? I dont understand it was delayed alot and released 6 hours ago. Someone help please.

on a side not WOOHOO!!

Yes these forums are starting to sound like steam forums lol.

west7because its a BETA version www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/term/38567/beta-version

LMAO he knows that...

Prima.VeraThose drivers broke my Crossfire again in AC4, Counterstrike and SWTOR. But now in SWTOR there is no more flickering during cut scenes...
So in each driver release you gain some, you loose some. Typical AMD...

Seriously ?, beta and not supported yet and you thought you were so special even though it did not work for AMD it would for you and you think this gives you right to yet again have a excuse to bitch and moan in a AMD thread...

GTFOOH...

freeleacherBlue screen 100% of the time on battlefield 4
BCCode: 116
BCP1: FFFFFA800792F010
BCP2: FFFFF88009524DBC
BCP3: 0000000000000000
BCP4: 0000000000000002
OS Version: 6_1_7601
Service Pack: 1_0
Product: 768_1
Problem Event Name: BlueScreen
OS Version: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.768.3
Locale ID: 2057

From the Release Notes (you should read them sometimes!):

Current driver MUST be uninstalled before updating to AMD Catalyst™ 14.1 Beta driver.
[...]

and Regarding Battlefield 4 under Mantle, from Known Issues:

◾Intermittent stuttering or stability issues may occur when utilizing Mantle with AMD CrossFire™ technology in BattleField 4™ - AMD recommends using the DirectX code path when playing Battlefield 4 with multiple GPUs. A future AMD Catalyst release will resolve these issues

cadavecaI see 100% boost with 7970 using mantle.

You, Sir, fail at math.

57.77/38.80 = 1.4889

48.89%≠100%

Also, your benchmarks indicate an R9 but you are suggesting 7970... Which is it? A R9 280X?

Blín D'ñeroFrom the Release Notes (you should read them sometimes!):


and Regarding Battlefield 4 under Mantle, from Known Issues:

Fresh install no other drivers were present at all.
My cards were seen as unknown hardware before install.

as usual, complaints about things breaking, but you can just use the older good dll for your broken game, making it a non issue (unless you have to frankenstein your CAPs file)

so-called beta doesnt mean a thing, most ati drivers have been the same, we have whqls with bsods & major issues, we have betas that work great

it's just a new driver branch, the little sticker microsoft puts out is irrelevant

& who waits for whql to complain about bugs? report them! amd.com/betareport

Slomo4shOYou, Sir, fail at math.

57.77/38.80 = 1.4889

48.89%≠100%

Also, your benchmarks indicate an R9 but you are suggesting 7970... Which is it? A R9 280X?

It's an ASUS 7970 MATRIX w/ R9 280X MATRIX BIOS.

100% in max batch. That'd be the most CPU-limited scenario.

raw FPS, sure, but that's averaged out FPS. FPS on DirectX tanks to < 10 FPS, in Mantle, it barely drops below 30 FPS. You are comparing FPS over 6 minutes of test, not every single millisecond of the test, which paints a different picture than just those numbers do.

It's all about how you analyze the results, and what gives those results. Looking at the end numbers only doesn't tell you squat. Which is why I should stop posting. :roll: Everyone will draw their own conclusions anyway. Anyone could look at mining performance AMD vs NV, then gaming performance, see the problems there, and could have expected this. Add in power consumption, and it has been obvious since day one that AMD GPUs have been far under-utilized, never mind that AMD said they had driver issues getting the most out of these chips well over a year ago, but performance hasn't increased...stability has, sure.

Slomo4shOYou, Sir, fail at math.

57.77/38.80 = 1.4889

48.89%≠100%

Also, your benchmarks indicate an R9 but you are suggesting 7970... Which is it? A R9 280X?

cadavecaIt's an ASUS 7970 MATRIX w/ R9 280X MATRIX BIOS.

100% in max batch. That'd be the most CPU-limited scenario.

raw FPS, sure, but that's averaged out FPS. FPS on DirectX tanks to < 10 FPS, in Mantle, it barely drops below 30 FPS. You are comparing FPS over 6 minutes of test, not every single millisecond of the test, which paints a different picture than just those numbers do.

It's all about how you analyze the results, and what gives those results. Looking at the end numbers only doesn't tell you squat. Which is why I should stop posting. :roll: Everyone will draw their own conclusions anyway. Anyone could look at mining performance AMD vs NV, then gaming performance, see the problems there, and could have expected this. Add in power consumption, and it has been obvious since day one that AMD GPUs have been far under-utilized, never mind that AMD said they had driver issues getting the most out of these chips well over a year ago, but performance hasn't increased...stability has, sure.

He has a point though. Even if you include total frames, isn't nearly 100%, I think 50-65% would be a better estimation, which still isn't too bad tbh.

AquinusHe has a point though. Even if you include total frames, isn't nearly 100%, I think 50-65% would be a better estimation, which still isn't too bad tbh.

Oh, of course. That goes without saying. Obvious is obvious. :p

AsRockSeriously ?, beta and not supported yet and you thought you were so special even though it did not work for AMD it would for you and you think this gives you right to yet again have a excuse to bitch and moan in a AMD thread...

GTFOOH...

It's a thread about the release of a new AMD driver. Doesn't say anywhere in the topic is a Mantle ONLY driver. And I just stated some facts. What's your problem?

wotevajjjjDownloaded them, when trying to get into bf4 options, the game crashes...

happen to me. disable your igpu

Prima.VeraIt's a thread about the release of a new AMD driver. Doesn't say anywhere in the topic is a Mantle ONLY driver. And I just stated some facts. What's your problem?

I guess my problem is common sense, this is BETA with new added stuff that there be even more of a chance of there being a issue.

Slomo4shOYou, Sir, fail at math.

57.77/38.80 = 1.4889

48.89%≠100%

Also, your benchmarks indicate an R9 but you are suggesting 7970... Which is it? A R9 280X?

Total frames rendered.

67% increase in performance VS, however notice the extra numbers of objects, 5% more, and as we all know geometry is compute core limited and thus not linear in scale. Once the delta is reached in DX performance per unit unit is exponential in decrease. Per unit average is still 28% higher on top of the already 67% higher performance at the higher unit per frame render.

Overall I would feel good saying it was a 75% increase, for free, so your complaint is exactly what? You didn't get in on it?

Enabling deferred context in the demo on nvidia systems gives massive performance boost according to results from forum posters on anandtech.

pr0n InspectorEnabling deferred context in the demo on nvidia systems gives massive performance boost according to results from forum posters on anandtech.

what exactly does that do?

pr0n InspectorEnabling deferred context in the demo on nvidia systems gives massive performance boost according to results from forum posters on anandtech.

AMD was involved with Nvidia in the 2013 game development conference that covered the use of DC.

developer.nvidia.com/sites/default/files/akamai/gamedev/docs/GDC_2013_DUDASH_DeferredContexts.pdf


Flushing due to state changes still pose problems, perhaps mantle address this throught the use of HSA so that the GPU is aware (pseudo aware if off chip memory controller is in use such as the ARM chip Nvidia seems to be implementing**from what I believe**) of what the CPU is working and the thread changes in process.

It's a D3D11 feature that can provide large performance increase in some situations.