Thursday, May 7th 2015
AMD Fiji XT Reference PCB as Short as GTX 970 Reference, R9 295X2 Performance
AMD's upcoming Radeon R9 390X graphics cards will ship in two SKUs - an air-cooled one, with a moderately long reference design board (though not as long as the R9 290X), and a new Water-Cooled Edition (WCE) SKU, which will feature a very compact PCB - one that could be no bigger than that of the GeForce GTX 970 reference. This is possible because of AMD's HBM implementation. The 8 GB of memory on this card is present on the GPU package, as bare 3D-stacked DRAM dies, surrounding the GPU die, with an IHS covering everything; rather than the GPU package being surrounded by memory chips. Below is a mock-up of the card by ChipHell. It's not a picture. The radiator is off-proportions, the Radeon logo is misaligned, and the PCIe I/O is misaligned, etc. It should still give you a good idea of what the card looks like, particularly its length. Other specs on hand so far, include 4,096 GCN 1.2 stream processors, 256 TMUs, 128 ROPs, and a 4096-bit wide HBM interface, which at 1.25 GHz memory clock, will offer memory bandwidth of 640 GB/s.
While Fiji package will be bigger than that of, say, "Hawaii," overall the setup is more space-efficient, and conserves PCB real-estate. The PCB hence only has the GPU package and the VRM. AMD is doing away with the DVI connector on its reference PCB. It will only feature three DisplayPort 1.2a and one HDMI 2.0a. The WCE variant will feature a pump+block covering the GPU package, which will come factory-fitted to a 120 x 120 mm radiator. The air-cooled R9 390X will be longer, but only to house a heatsink and lateral blower. The single-GPU card could offer performance comparable to the dual-GPU R9 295X2, which is faster than the GeForce GTX TITAN-X. AMD CEO Lisa Su, speaking at the Investor Day event, in New York, on 6th May, hinted that the product could launch on the sidelines of either Computex 2015 (early-June) or E3 (mid-June).
Image Courtesy: ChipHell. Many Thanks to GhostRyder for the tip.
While Fiji package will be bigger than that of, say, "Hawaii," overall the setup is more space-efficient, and conserves PCB real-estate. The PCB hence only has the GPU package and the VRM. AMD is doing away with the DVI connector on its reference PCB. It will only feature three DisplayPort 1.2a and one HDMI 2.0a. The WCE variant will feature a pump+block covering the GPU package, which will come factory-fitted to a 120 x 120 mm radiator. The air-cooled R9 390X will be longer, but only to house a heatsink and lateral blower. The single-GPU card could offer performance comparable to the dual-GPU R9 295X2, which is faster than the GeForce GTX TITAN-X. AMD CEO Lisa Su, speaking at the Investor Day event, in New York, on 6th May, hinted that the product could launch on the sidelines of either Computex 2015 (early-June) or E3 (mid-June).
103 Comments on AMD Fiji XT Reference PCB as Short as GTX 970 Reference, R9 295X2 Performance
I'm impressed by how small that card is. Those with small compact cases will probably be drooling over this.
FWIW, I think it looks pretty cool.
I think it looks good as well, if that is how its going to be 100% being that it has a full cover block there is one last thing that would make me unbelievably happy. If you can easily remove the tubes and adapt it into your own custom cooling system. Now that would be a great selling point!!!
I just want to emphasize that no "performance information" was presented at this Investor Day event. Because the next sentence starts AMD CEO Lisa Su, speaking... some might construe that. That last sentence starts an entirely new topic, where she was hinting such product could launch, which is still seriously vague. I might need to find her exact words.
This could be good, hot often means fast.
I sincerely hope it is as good as the speculation. If not, I'll be a bit bummed out. TBH, I'm appalled at the current 980 pricing and the Titan X is in silly land. I have a sneaking feeling Nvidia priced high to gouge, knowing 390X would be fast. But, if it's not fast, well shit, we're all doomed to continued high costs. 390X isn't going to be cheap either :(
WCCFtech have taken a ELA image confirming it.
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even if it does end up looking as good as that.
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As to Nvidia pricing it was more based on knowing how seriously tardy AMD was going to be, and when it did probably would see supply and production slowing being able to fill the channel. I mean it was kinda' the 7970~ pricing when AMD understood Kepler was out 4-5 months. I'm not sure what to say to AIB custom Fiji XT and then with 8Gb of HBM could price out like, or how soon they show, I see a full Fiji with 4Gb still not being all that "far-off-the mark" of the 8Gb brethren on air, although priced to push the GTX980's down a notch or perhaps two.
I'm thinking a Fiji XT 8Gb WCE, a Fiji XT 8Gb reference air (not if any AIB's customs at first), while from early on a Fiji XT 4Gb making AIB Custom OC's in good numbers, and later a Fiji Pro 4Gb.
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Things are gonna get sinister if you pester these forums much more. I'm on a beer free night so my mind is sharper than normal. Don't make me stab you with it.
And yes, it's a mockup. A 120 mm radiator looking out of proportion to the card should give that away before anything else. You don't need pointless articles with elaborate graphics work to tell you that.
This is what R9 390X WCE will look like. As some older reports suggested, it could even get a fancy name.
Fake or not, it's a nice render of the R9 390X which looks identical to what WCCFTech has posted. Probably these guys are just sourgraping because somebody created a better looking image of the R9 390X than their teaser image.
Big props to chiphell for leaking such a high quality image - I do like it when photos aren't ruined with logos over the goods ;)
The best rational is the Fiji launch would be at Computex (6-7 day worldwide event focused on hardware/manufactures), along with perhaps the next card down the stack. Most smart marketing folks would want the prominence of a new Enthusiast product and the first with HBM to happen on a grand scale, and those initial reviews to command the discussion.
While E3 just (2-3 day venue around gaming software), is where I think we'll see the mainstream offerings. I see AMD really looking to build off the momentum from Fuji, while promoting such cards as making PC gaming super accessible. Offering a exceptionally immersive level play @1080p (perhaps touting Dx12 optimizations), while isn’t out-of-bounds to the cost of today’s consoles, though without stepping on any toes.
Not to mention that using an IHS, combined with the taller HBM chips, would lead to a pretty thick layer of metal right above the GPU die, and that would lower the efficiency of the entire cooling setup. This leads me to believe that either there won't be an IHS at all (they are likely to use a "frame" like they've always used for high-end GPUs) OR they'll use a very atypical IHS (one that has "bumps" right above the location of the HBM chips, so not a flat surface at all). Either way, ye olde "conventional" waterblocks won't work here, you'll just have to buy a new one or modify the base of an existing one to fit the bill.
Also, the sheer size of the GPU package (certainly much larger than that of any GPU released to date, at the very least the size of an LGA2011 CPU package) leads to other complications. First and foremost, the holes for the cooler's retention system are going to be spaced much further apart. This would result in something more along the lines of what you typically see on a motherboard rather than a graphics card as far as said holes are concerned. This also leads to my second point here, which is that the 390X's cooling system (stock or custom) is extremely likely to employ some form of backplate to prevent the PCB from warping too far and breaking the BGA contacts or other parts (such as the dies, but not only). There are a couple of viable options here: either a system that pretty much works the same way as that on the AM2/AM3/AM3+ sockets, or a metallic X-shaped spring system (which is more commonly used for graphics cards, think about the HD 4870/4870X2, for example).
Either way, whatever's hiding under the cooling system of the 390X is unlike just about any graphics card you've seen to date.
Anyways, this leads me to believe that either there will be an IHS with a flat surface towards the cooler or all the components on the GPU package (HBM an GPU die itself) will have the same height.
An example:
Well, I suppose it all depends on the waterblock. Full-cover versions are indeed model specific, but waterblocks that only cover the GPU can be fitted on multiple cards, provided the retention system can either cope with the task or be modified or replaced easily.No, no, no, you got it all wrong. You don't need to fit the base on the HBM stacks as tightly as you would on the GPU itself. It's far more likely that they'd just "make a hole" where the HBM stacks are positioned and use ye olde thermal pads to cool them (you know, the same stuff they're currently using on memory chips). It should be enough to keep the HBM stacks cool and wouldn't require anywhere near the precision you're talking about. You also wouldn't need to worry about pressure distribution. It would be handled by the GPU and package frame, like before, since a lot less of it would actually rest on the HBM stacks (those pads are pretty soft, the pressure exerted on the HBM stacks would be either minimal, or a whole helluva lot less than the GPU has to cope with. They're probably going to use some sort of backplate because of the sheer size of the package itself, but that's about it.
No need for any sort of IHS whatsoever, or for all of the components on the GPU package (as you put it) to be of the same height. They'll (AMD) just need to make sure they leave enough room open for the heatpipes to pass through (between the HBM stacks), and that's all that would be necessary to fit current cooling systems with only minor modifications (basically, just the holes for the HBM stacks and a large enough retention system). Nothing more, nothing less.