Monday, July 3rd 2023

12VHPWR Connector Said to be Replaced by 12V-2x6 Connector

by
TheLostSwede
 Discuss (137 Comments)
According to Igor's Lab, who has gotten their hands on a PCI-SIG draft engineer change notice, it looks like the not entirely uncontroversial 12VHPWR connector won't be long lived. The PCI-SIG is getting ready to replace it with the 12V-2x6 connector, which will be part of the ATX 3.1 spec and the PCI Express 6.0 spec. The new connector doesn't appear to have any major physical changes though, but there have been mechanical modifications, such as the sense pins having been recessed further back, to make sure a proper contact is made before higher power outputs can be requested by the GPU. The good news is that at least in the draft spec, the 12V-2x6 connector will be backwards compatible with 12VHPWR connectors.

One of the bigger changes, at least when it comes to how much power the new connector can deliver, is that there will be new 150 and 300 Watt modes in addition to the 450 and 600 Watt modes for the sense pin detection. The 12V-2x6 connector is rated for at least 9.2 Amps per pin and the new connectors will carry a H++ logo, with th older 12VHPWR connectors getting a H+ logo. The PCI-SIG has also added stricter requirements when it comes to the cable design and quality, which should hopefully prevent some of the issues the 12VHPWR implementations have suffered from. We should find out more details once the PCI-SIG has finalised the 12V-2x6 connector specification. In the meantime, you can hit up the source link for more technical drawings and details.
Source: Igor's Lab

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137 Comments on 12VHPWR Connector Said to be Replaced by 12V-2x6 Connector

#26
bug
Vayra86Sure it has always worked like that, still that leaves even MORE questions on why Nvidia pushed this with the shit adapter they themselves offered with their top end product.
The adapterconnector can't be that bad, considering it just got standardized with only a few changes.
Vayra86It also leaves the question why people keep thinking the initial offering was good and is now not degraded. That... I can't even. Are we thát bad at reflection?
Early adopters. You and I may not be among them, but we still have to thank them for pretty much every device we take for granted.
Posted on Reply
#28
TTPPUU
So what about ATX 3.0 PSUs .. ? I have an ATX 3.0 Dark Power Pro 1300W PSU with 2x modular 600W 12VHPWR cables

Suppose I buy an RTX ~5090 in the future that will have the new 12V-2x6 connector - what about the PSU

Will there be adapters (lol) from 12VHPWR to 12V-2x6 ?
Or PSU makers will provide new 12V-2x6 cables (at least for modular PSUs) separately ?
Or everyone will have to buy a new ATX 3.1 PSU /w 12V-2x6 ??

Or I just keep using my 12VHPWR cable as is and hope RTX 5090 doesnt melt?
Posted on Reply
#29
Dristun
Well, Igor's article says they're still gonna be inter-compatible, but it's great to see progress here - I'm still a bit paranoid regarding the adapter and occasionally check whether it's seated completely, haha, even though my 4080 is 2x8-pin and limited to 300W.

The bigger question is, in my opinion: what about people who already bought new PSUs? Those are being kept for way longer than videocards.
Posted on Reply
#30
TheLostSwede
News Editor
DristunThe bigger question is, in my opinion: what about people who already bought new PSUs? Those are being kept for way longer than videocards.
Straight into the bin recycling they go...
Posted on Reply
#31
bug
DristunWell, Igor's article says they're still gonna be inter-compatible, but it's great to see progress here - I'm still a bit paranoid regarding the adapter and occasionally check whether it's seated completely, haha, even though my 4080 is 2x8-pin and limited to 300W.

The bigger question is, in my opinion: what about people who already bought new PSUs? Those are being kept for way longer than videocards.
What can I say, when you have hundreds of watts going over a handful of cables, it can't hurt to check things once in a while. Better safe than sorry.
Posted on Reply
#34
bug
KLMRWhat about atx 3.0 power supplies just released and under development?
People buying components will try to skip a full generation of power supplies at all cost.
Losses for companies and e-waste.
It doesn't look like it would take more than an adapter. Or the proper cable, if your PSU is modular.
Posted on Reply
#35
KLMR
TTPPUUSo what about ATX 3.0 PSUs .. ? I have an ATX 3.0 Dark Power Pro 1300W PSU with 2x modular 600W 12VHPWR cables

Suppose I buy an RTX ~5090 in the future that will have the new 12V-2x6 connector - what about the PSU

Will there be adapters (lol) from 12VHPWR to 12V-2x6 ?
Or PSU makers will provide new 12V-2x6 cables (at least for modular PSUs) separately ?
Or everyone will have to buy a new ATX 3.1 PSU /w 12V-2x6 ??

Or I just keep using my 12VHPWR cable as is and hope RTX 5090 doesnt melt?
That is the main point.

What about all ATX 3.0 psu with 12VHPWR developed and under development, who is going to buy them from now on?
Posted on Reply
#36
Wirko
usinameThere is fundamental problem with the 12/16/2x6 pin connector
Somebody didn't want to pay licensing costs to Amphenol (and they might even get a discount as the technology is at least a decade old).

Up to 36 amps per contact, 200 mating cycles, works in servers (meaning, it works).

www.amphenol-cs.com/product-series/hpce-cable-assembly.html
Posted on Reply
#37
bug
KLMRThat is the main point.

What about all ATX 3.0 psu with 12VHPWR developed and under development, who is going to buy them from now on?
Create a new revision and replace the connector? There don't seem to be changes on the electric front.
Posted on Reply
#38
Chrispy_
I don't understand why they're continuing to use Micro-fit instead of MiniFit Jr.

All the problems we've seen so far have been a result of pins making poor contact, or pins generating heat. Using smaller, fragile pins and condensing that heat into a smaller space is the obvious cause, and the larger MiniFit Jr. has been working incredibly reliably for the PC industry for 25 years.

It's not like physical space is an issue on the latest generation of triple-slot, extra-long, extra tall GPUs, so why the obsession with using this clearly-flawed, compact connector for more power handling than any other connector in the history of x86 computing?
Posted on Reply
#39
TheDeeGee
With the shortening of the sense pins i forsee a lot of failing system boots.

Also Astron (3-dimple) needs to banned from 12VHPWR cables, it's so unreliable. Only 2 out of 6 dimples could make proper contact for example.

NTK (4-spring) needs to be the standard for 12VHPWR cables.
Posted on Reply
#40
TheLostSwede
News Editor
Chrispy_It's not like physical space is an issue on the latest generation of triple-slot, extra-long, extra tall GPUs, so why the obsession with using this clearly-flawed, compact connector for more power handling than any other connector in the history of x86 computing?
Because big cable/multiple cables = U.G.L.Y. :cool:
Posted on Reply
#41
KLMR
bugCreate a new revision and replace the connector? There don't seem to be changes on the electric front.
The new connector doesn't appear to have any major physical changes though, but there have been mechanical modifications, such as the sense pins having been recessed further back, to make sure a proper contact is made before higher power outputs can be requested by the GPU. The good news is that at least in the draft spec, the 12V-2x6 connector will be backwards compatible with 12VHPWR connectors.
That seems to be a physical change.


Nevertheless,
Who is going to risk to buy an ATX 3.0 now they'll be awared ATX 3.1 is on the horizon? And the cables? E-waste.
Lots of potential cables and psu will pop up on ebay (and regular retailers) for the uninformed user, which connector H+ H++ H++v2, which pin the good ones whe bad ones?

The regular user wants to "play" or "use" the hardware not be informed about H++ 3.1.
This is like the usb-c mess.
Posted on Reply
#42
chrcoluk
Would be terrible if PSU's became rapid development as well, they the one part you could maybe get a decade out of.
Posted on Reply
#43
bug
KLMRThat seems to be a physical change.


Nevertheless,
Who is going to risk to buy an ATX 3.0 now they'll be awared ATX 3.1 is on the horizon? And the cables? E-waste.
Lots of potential cables and psu will pop up on ebay (and regular retailers) for the uninformed user, which connector H+ H++ H++v2, which pin the good ones whe bad ones?

The regular user wants to "play" or "use" the hardware not be informed about H++ 3.1.
This is like the usb-c mess.
If you must buy now, get a modular PSU and replace the relevant cable when needed. If you already bought a PSU and it works, it will continue to work, because of backwards compatibility.
TheLostSwedeBecause big cable/multiple cables = U.G.L.Y. :cool:
Let's not forget impractical. Have you never started to connect plugs only to discover that where the first plug went in painlessly, the second one just wouldn't fit? And not because of the connector, but because there's no more room for your fingers holding the connector?
Posted on Reply
#44
TheLostSwede
News Editor
sLowEnd150W & 300W are new modes?

I thought they already existed:
jongerow.com/12VHPWR/
They changed how it's being done over the sense pins.
bugLet's not forget impractical. Have you never started to connect plugs only to discover that where the first plug went in painlessly, the second one just wouldn't fit? And because of the connector, but because there's no more room for your fingers holding the connector?
The "modular" 6+2-pin connectors has this problem every time...
Posted on Reply
#45
LabRat 891
KLMRThat seems to be a physical change.


Nevertheless,
Who is going to risk to buy an ATX 3.0 now they'll be awared ATX 3.1 is on the horizon? And the cables? E-waste.
Lots of potential cables and psu will pop up on ebay (and regular retailers) for the uninformed user, which connector H+ H++ H++v2, which pin the good ones whe bad ones?

The regular user wants to "play" or "use" the hardware not be informed about H++ 3.1.
This is like the usb-c mess.
I predict a rash of PC fires in coming years.

Brilliant way to get rid of future budget-builds as a competitor and drive new sales...

"Oh, my PSU/GPU melted"
"That's your fault, you bought an old PSU"

The fact the connector is getting revised, is admission to the previous version causing damages, no? How do you class-action against an adopted standard?
Posted on Reply
#46
bug
LabRat 891I predict a rash of PC fires in coming years.

Brilliant way to get rid of future budget-builds as a competitor and drive new sales...

"Oh, my PSU/GPU melted"
"That's your fault, you bought an old PSU"

The fact the connector is getting revised, is admission to the previous version causing damages, no? How do you class-action against an adopted standard?
If it didn't happen already, I don't see how having things standardized can increase the chance of a fire.
Posted on Reply
#47
mechtech
"which will be part of the ATX 3.1 spec"

the pc world.......it goes in spurts.........no updates for years, then a bunch of updates in a short time.

well hopefully this addresses all the issues......
Posted on Reply
#50
R0H1T
mechtech"which will be part of the ATX 3.1 spec"

the pc world.......it goes in spurts.........no updates for years, then a bunch of updates in a short time.

well hopefully this addresses all the issues......
Hey at least they're not doing ATX v3.1 gen 2x2 ala USB :laugh:
R-T-BWhy do that when we have so many "aparently qualified" engineers telling us what's wrong in the comment section?
Of course, would be far cheaper hiring us :cool:
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