I don't understand Microsoft's logic

They want to promote Windows Vista, and stop XP sales, but then again, they keep extending XP's support and DOWNGRADE program.

I think this is why Vista is not so popular. Microsoft kept promoting exp for what 3-4 yrs which gave everybody a chance to upgrade from 2000 to xp including all the government, schools, and other enterprises and have good amount of bugs gone. Now they screwed themselves with that and now they are just throwing vista down our throats and trying to get everybody to upgrade when there is a huge amount of bugs still there, and thats why schools, government, enterprises will not upgrade just yet.

maybe because they know that Vista is Whack. :toast:

considering the major backlash when M$ annouced they were stopping the production of XP I think they have partially learnt their lesson which is to listen to the consumers a little more.

im not going to go into the 'XP Vs. Vista' debate - each to their own theres a lotta people that say Vista is good then theres a lotta people saying Vista is crap. its just an endless circle.

So 'Forcing' users to use Vista with a new system isnt good either. people have their own personnal preferances - Personally I still like XP. DX10 might sound good on paper but in reality its not good enough to force me to go Vista.

implementing a system like this where users can choose which O/S they want to run with other then just vista vista & vista saves Consumers money as they DONT have to pay an extra £60-70 to have the machine come with XP.

by: SimFreak47

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I don't understand Microsoft's logic

They want to promote Windows Vista, and stop XP sales, but then again, they keep extending XP's support and DOWNGRADE program.

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At least it shuts the people up who keep complaining about Microsoft shoving things down everybody's throat.

There really is no good reason not to move to Vista these days. I wouldn't upgrade a machine from XP to Vista, but on new machines I say just stick with Vista. Vista isn't buggy anymore, at this point people are just complaining because they are comfortable with XP and fear change.

by: watts289

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they are just throwing vista down our throats

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by: DanTheBanjoman

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At least it shuts the people up who keep complaining about Microsoft shoving things down everybody's throat.

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Does it?

I think the popularity of small laptops (like the Asus eee) is increasing the usefullness of XP. The defualt OS for these new laptops is Linux... or Windows XP. Vista is just to beefy and demanding to run efficiently on those little things. As the demand for the eee and its competition increases, then so will XP's cutoff date. :toast:

that an xp users signing petitions to have it extended.

by: jydie

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I think the popularity of small laptops (like the Asus eee) is increasing the usefullness of XP. The defualt OS for these new laptops is Linux... or Windows XP. Vista is just to beefy and demanding to run efficiently on those little things. As the demand for the eee and its competition increases, then so will XP's cutoff date. :toast:

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I disagree, my Eee runs Vista just fine. In fact many report that Vista actually runs better than XP Home does on their Netbooks. In this article particularly, installing Vista on the MSI Wind actually made it faster at benchmarks.

by: SimFreak47

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I don't understand Microsoft's logic

They want to promote Windows Vista, and stop XP sales, but then again, they keep extending XP's support and DOWNGRADE program.

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Oh, they'll keep extending the downgrade program forever, if they'd like -- it still requires useres to buy a copy of Vista first (even if they never use it), so Microsoft can still make their shareholders happy, even if everyone doesn't like the new OS. :laugh:

Soon companies (and already) will stop making drivers for XP and will thru that force people to "upgrade" to vista.

by: newtekie1

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There really is no good reason not to move to Vista these days. I wouldn't upgrade a machine from XP to Vista, but on new machines I say just stick with Vista. Vista isn't buggy anymore, at this point people are just complaining because they are comfortable with XP and fear change.

Does it?

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Fear change,? I think not, and I think you should really stop thinking like that. I like change, but not if it comprimises my productivity. Example, a quickly optimised XP install (i.e. disabled services, etc) takes around 20~30 seconds on my system to boot up, and less than 10 seconds on the eeepc. With Vista, even when optimised through the same means, I found that the system took more than one minute to boot. That isnt all, the EEEPC's 20GB SDD means that the Vista OS, will take up a large portion of the drive, making it extremely undesirable, and would moreover run at a sluggish pace.

Another argument against upgrading to vista, is the fact that some hardware, such as my Webcam, graphics tablet, etcetera will not work anymore. You may say that "why not get better hardware (and say the same about my EEEPC), but realise the quickly deteriorating economic conditions ahead-you may find that the most you can afford in the future is a Nettop. I'm personally considering one to use mainly instead of my main PC for space saving, and the fact that the nettop will use far less power than the PC (power bills have been going up since I upgraded hardware).

I strongly support this decision that Microsoft has made.

by: tkpenalty

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Fear change,? I think not, and I think you should really stop thinking like that. I like change, but not if it comprimises my productivity. Example, a quickly optimised XP install (i.e. disabled services, etc) takes around 20~30 seconds on my system to boot up, and less than 10 seconds on the eeepc. With Vista, even when optimised through the same means, I found that the system took more than one minute to boot. That isnt all, the EEEPC's 20GB SDD means that the Vista OS, will take up a large portion of the drive, making it extremely undesirable, and would moreover run at a sluggish pace.

Another argument against upgrading to vista, is the fact that some hardware, such as my Webcam, graphics tablet, etcetera will not work anymore. You may say that "why not get better hardware (and say the same about my EEEPC), but realise the quickly deteriorating economic conditions ahead-you may find that the most you can afford in the future is a Nettop. I'm personally considering one to use mainly instead of my main PC for space saving, and the fact that the nettop will use far less power than the PC (power bills have been going up since I upgraded hardware).

I strongly support this decision that Microsoft has made.

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Boot time is pretty meaningless to me. I only rarely actually boot any of my Vista machines, most of the time they are put to sleep, including my EeePC. Resuming from sleep is nearly instant, the longest time is spent typing in my password.

Your harddrive space argument might work for the older EeePC's but the newer ones with 40GB SSDs and 80-160GB HDDs negates it. And the lowest for any of the Nettops will be the 40GB SDD, with the 80GB HDD being standard.

The few incompatible pieces of hardware are really the only reason not to use Vista, but that is only the fault of the hardware manufacturer for not releasing propper drivers. I have only run into a single piece of hardware that didn't work with Vista, an old 3Com PCI network card. The rare hardware incompatibility is far from a good reason to stick with XP.

On the consumer level that makes sense. On the business level there is no reason to buy Vista. Everything is already setup and running on XP. Some things are even designed to run on XP. Companies may not want the bill of the new computers for Vista as well as the configuration costs of the those companies that their hardware and software was purchased from.
I'm sure much of this decision had to do with the industry side. Primarily they are the ones even purchasing the downgrades not the average consumer.
We all build our own PCs we don't count.

Everyone is waiting for Windows 7, why not.

by: newtekie1

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I disagree, my Eee runs Vista just fine. In fact many report that Vista actually runs better than XP Home does on their Netbooks. In this article particularly, installing Vista on the MSI Wind actually made it faster at benchmarks.

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Some of the eee's only have a 2 or 4 GB SSD drive. I am not sure if Vista could fit on those.

But, dang... that surprises me. Vista beating XP with only 1 GB of memory. :o

Thanks for the information and the link!! :)

why won't xp just die.

by: DrPepper

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why won't xp just die.

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Because if M$ can't sell vista to the masses, they can still make a profit with XP. Let's not forget that microsoft loves our money.

"
im not going to go into the 'XP Vs. Vista' debate - each to their own theres a lotta people that say Vista is good then theres a lotta people saying Vista is crap. its just an endless circle."

But it doesn't have to be an endless circle.

People who like Vista obviously have figured it out. People who don't are just ignorant bandwagon morons.

by: newtekie1

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The few incompatible pieces of hardware are really the only reason not to use Vista, but that is only the fault of the hardware manufacturer for not releasing propper drivers.

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...or the fact that the manufacturer has drivers that work perfectly well with Windows XP and sees no need to write any more? :rolleyes: This is especially true in the business world, where upgrades usually occur once a decade, if not slower.

by: watts289

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I think this is why Vista is not so popular. Microsoft kept promoting exp for what 3-4 yrs which gave everybody a chance to upgrade from 2000 to xp including all the government, schools, and other enterprises and have good amount of bugs gone. Now they screwed themselves with that and now they are just throwing vista down our throats and trying to get everybody to upgrade when there is a huge amount of bugs still there, and thats why schools, government, enterprises will not upgrade just yet.

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Dude, shut up with the rhetoric.

What bugs?

How are they shoving Vista down our throats when they are extending downgrade and support?

Shools gov, ent. will not upgrade just yet because there isn't a need to spend millions of $ when XP is still compatible with everything. Businesses don't need DirectX 10 to run spreadsheet. (btw, University in my town is 100% Vista (besides their Macs)

It's necessary for Video game players to upgrade if they want to stay current with the top-notch graphical tech.

Vista is more stable for me than XP ever was, now that the OS dedicates some resources to the OS itself to prevent total PC lock.

by: Darkrealms

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On the consumer level that makes sense. On the business level there is no reason to buy Vista. Everything is already setup and running on XP. Some things are even designed to run on XP. Companies may not want the bill of the new computers for Vista as well as the configuration costs of the those companies that their hardware and software was purchased from.
I'm sure much of this decision had to do with the industry side. Primarily they are the ones even purchasing the downgrades not the average consumer.
We all build our own PCs we don't count.

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I already said, there is no reason to buy Vista by itself. However, currently, even on the business level, there is no reason to avoid Vista when purchasing new machine. You are actually already purchasing Vista to be eligible for the downgrade anyway, so you might as well use it.

And if you are a Business running software that isn't compatible with Vista, that is a different story. However, I wouldn't recommend any Business run outdates software, and anything that doesn't run on Vista is too outdated for me. I know business don't follow that logic because it usually means they have to take some money out of their pockets, which most don't like to do in this day an age. But really, I haven't come across much software that won't work with Vista actually, most people just assume that whatever they are using won't work, and never actually try it.

by: mdm-adph

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...or the fact that the manufacturer has drivers that work perfectly well with Windows XP and sees no need to write any more? :rolleyes: This is especially true in the business world, where upgrades usually occur once a decade, if not slower.

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I will not buy hardware from manufacturers that refuse to support it with proper driver updates, and anyone that does is an idiot. "My hardware manufacturer is to lazy to provide up to date drivers" is not a valid argument against Vista. Besides most XP drivers work just fine in the 32-bit version of Vista.

by: newtekie1

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I already said, there is no reason to buy Vista by itself. However, currently, even on the business level, there is no reason to avoid Vista when purchasing new machine. You are actually already purchasing Vista to be eligible for the downgrade anyway, so you might as well use it.

And if you are a Business running software that isn't compatible with Vista, that is a different story. However, I wouldn't recommend any Business run outdates software, and anything that doesn't run on Vista is too outdated for me. I know business don't follow that logic because it usually means they have to take some money out of their pockets, which most don't like to do in this day an age. But really, I haven't come across much software that won't work with Vista actually, most people just assume that whatever they are using won't work, and never actually try it.

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GE has informed us that using Vista for our software that is considered current by them is a "at your own risk" and will not be supported by them ; )

by: paybackdaman

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Because if M$ can't sell vista to the masses, they can still make a profit with XP. Let's not forget that all businesses love our money.

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Fixed that for you. All businesses do what they do ultimately to make money.

by: Darkrealms

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GE has informed us that using Vista for our software that is considered current by them is a "at your own risk" and will not be supported by them ; )

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Current by them, isn't current if it doesn't work properly on Vista, I don't care what GE says. I'm sure their is an alternative that you can switch to, and if you are paying for continued support by them, they have to support it regardless of platform.

by: DonInKansas

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Fixed that for you. All businesses do what they do ultimately to make money.

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Perhaps one day UNICEF will get into the OS business.

Sorry, I should have said for-profit business.:rolleyes: