Monday, February 26th 2018

"Lawyering Up" - Coinbase to Send Data on 13,000 Users to the IRS

Coinbase, one of the world's largest cryptoexchanges - which is also one of those with the most solid footing when it comes to these kind of exchange - has announced via email that it will be disclosing around 13,000 users' data to the IRS. No doubt this is a move by the company to improve its footing even more with state institutions; however, this will certainly reduce consumers' trust in the exchange - at least, for those customers who weren't considering having to pay taxes on their crypto earnings.

What prompted this move by Coinbase? Well, back in November 2016, the IRS, through a San Francisco-based judge, started court proceedings which would see all of Coinbase users' data to be delivered to the services. Coinbase fought over these court proceedings, but ultimately caved in after the IRS's proposal changed from "all users" to a system that's likely based on trading volume. This is why "only" 13,000 users will see their personal data (taxpayer ID, name, birth date, address, and historical transaction records for certain higher-transacting customers during the 2013-2015 period) being delivered to the IRS as part of a major tax evasion investigation (which should surprise no one, really).
The affected individuals have been notified via email; Coinbase's statement as to this turn of events? They themselves are "unable to provide legal or tax advice," and thus, tell users that "If you have concerns about this, we encourage you to seek legal advice from an attorney promptly. Coinbase expects to produce the information covered by the court's order within 21 days."
Source: ArsTechnica
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63 Comments on "Lawyering Up" - Coinbase to Send Data on 13,000 Users to the IRS

#1
lynx29
so many surprise IRS penalty fees incoming in the mail, can't ever escape the tax man, this is why Monero coin and not using an exchange ever is the only true path forward to cryptocurrency. otherwise you will never escape the banks and fiat
Posted on Reply
#2
yotano211
lynx29
so many surprise IRS penalty fees incoming in the mail, can't ever escape the tax man, this is why Monero coin and not using an exchange ever is the only true path forward to cryptocurrency. otherwise you will never escape the banks and fiat
You must be one of those special people, or just plain stupid. No matter what you think it is still income and you need to report that income according to your countries' laws.
Posted on Reply
#3
the54thvoid
Taxes are necessary for a state to run its resources. Schools, law enforcement, military and other important services (country dependent). Generating an income without tax is selfish to the greater good, so yeah, this is well overdue. Less tax income for a state creates even greater inequalities. You don't want to pay tax? Then never use a highway, call the cops, walk through a civic park etc, etc, etc.
Posted on Reply
#4
R-T-B
yotano211
You must be one of those special people, or just plain stupid. No matter what you think it is still income and you need to report that income according to your countries' laws.
I subscribe to that same philosophy. I use my countries infrastructure, I should pay taxes. USA is pretty reasonable on crypto tax (it's considered a capital gains tax), so I pay it. Simple.

An important part of this ruling is the "high volume" part. Coinbase will only disclose people who make like 10k+ per calander year IIRC. It seems actually underwhelming, to be frank.
Posted on Reply
#5
yotano211
R-T-B
I subscribe to that same philosophy. I use my countries infrastructure, I should pay taxes. USA is pretty reasonable on crypto tax (it's considered a capital gains tax), so I pay it. Simple.

An important part of this ruling is the "high volume" part. Coinbase will only disclose people who make like 10k+ per calander year IIRC. It seems actually underwhelming, to be frank.
I dont know what its taxed as, I dont know tax laws, but I sure hope its capital gains. My taxes for 2017 sure went up with the extra mining income. I havent seen what the IRS wants but I thought it would be around 20k, like the 20k and 100 transactions that the IRS made paypal start reporting a few years back.
Posted on Reply
#6
lynx29
yotano211
You must be one of those special people, or just plain stupid. No matter what you think it is still income and you need to report that income according to your countries' laws.
I know it is income... I was referring the people who will be surprised when they get letters in the mail from the IRS... I have no Bitcoin and never had any. Thanks for inferring and using crude language though, you are a great part of this community!
Posted on Reply
#7
R-T-B
lynx29
I know it is income... I was referring the people who will be surprised when they get letters in the mail from the IRS... I have no Bitcoin and never had any. Thanks for inferring and using crude language though, you are a great part of this community!
Well, I mean you were openly discussing tax evasion on the internet. I wouldn't expect a loving response frankly.
Posted on Reply
#8
NdMk2o1o
lynx29
I know it is income... I was referring the people who will be surprised when they get letters in the mail from the IRS... I have no Bitcoin and never had any. Thanks for inferring and using crude language though, you are a great part of this community!
No issue with the first part of your comment which you are quoting I think the issue came with the latter part inferring that if you want to get around issues/tax laws like this then you should do x/y/z etc.

The funny thing is, for the average joe, they have no choice but to pay their taxes, it's usually the high earners, corporations and those who earn obscene amounts of money who try and find anyway possible they can to avoid paying (as much) tax as they should... :kookoo:

Those 13000 are likely to be the most active traders and the top 10% of that list will be talking some big $$$
Posted on Reply
#9
lynx29
NdMk2o1o
No issue with the first part of your comment which you are quoting I think the issue came with the latter part inferring that if you want to get around issues/tax laws like this then you should do x/y/z etc.

The funny thing is, for the average joe, they have no choice but to pay their taxes, it's usually the high earners, corporations and those who earn obscene amounts of money who try and find anyway possible they can to avoid paying (as much) tax as they should... :kookoo:

Those 13000 are likely to be the most active traders and the top 10% of that list will be talking some big $$$
LOL do none of you know why bitcoin was originally invented? the entire purpose of cryptocurrency was originally to escape the big banks... do you know how many peoples lives were ruined by wall street greed and housing loan sharks that led to the 2008 Great Recession... the entire point of all cryptocurrecy was to not have to rely on big banks or be at the whim of government ever again, but someone got the bright idea to make the backbone of Bitcoin of fiat exchanges.

Monero is the only future, ANON, you work for x hours or do a job for x person, he sends Monero to your wallet from his Monero wallet, and x guy down the street sells games for x Monero as well. Fiat will always be king. but don't tell me you don't understand what cryptocurrency was supposed to be... sad... I was mining in 2012 but formatted my HDD thinking nothing would come of it and that big banks were too powerful... so sad the way people look at it all now. :/
Posted on Reply
#10
yotano211
lynx29
I know it is income... I was referring the people who will be surprised when they get letters in the mail from the IRS... I have no Bitcoin and never had any. Thanks for inferring and using crude language though, you are a great part of this community!
You where calling about tax evasion and fiat something, I dont care.
But I still dont know what you're talking about, first you said Monero, now you are talking about Bitcoin. You said you never had or owned bitcoin so why are you talking about Monero.
Posted on Reply
#11
Xzibit
IRS will be busy auditing a lot of people for back taxes. IRS even hired outside firms to track crypto transactions.
Posted on Reply
#12
NdMk2o1o
lynx29
LOL do none of you know why bitcoin was originally invented? the entire purpose of cryptocurrency was originally to escape the big banks... do you know how many peoples lives were ruined by wall street greed and housing loan sharks that led to the 2008 Great Recession... the entire point of all cryptocurrecy was to not have to rely on big banks or be at the whim of government ever again, but someone got the bright idea to make the backbone of Bitcoin of fiat exchanges.

Monero is the only future, ANON, you work for x hours or do a job for x person, he sends Monero to your wallet from his Monero wallet, and x guy down the street sells games for x Monero as well. Fiat will always be king. but don't tell me you don't understand what cryptocurrency was supposed to be... sad... I was mining in 2012 but formatted my HDD thinking nothing would come of it and that big banks were too powerful... so sad the way people look at it all now. :/
It wasn't created so average joe can make a few $100 bucks a month extra on top of his normal income... has many dark and shady practices also, so yes, not surprising really the government and taxman is going to start coming after it.
Posted on Reply
#13
lynx29
NdMk2o1o
It wasn't created so average joe can make a few $100 bucks a month extra on top of his normal income... has many dark and shady practices also, so yes, not surprising really the government and taxman is going to start coming after it.
government and IRS can't touch Monero. :) they can't touch it Monero to Monero wallet is untouchable, as long as you never use an exchange. and that scares the crap out of them
Posted on Reply
#14
yotano211
lynx29
government and IRS can't touch Monero. :) they can't touch it Monero to Monero wallet is untouchable, as long as you never use an exchange. and that scares the crap out of them
What did you mine in 2012?
Posted on Reply
#15
lynx29
yotano211
What did you mine in 2012?
Bitcoin with a 7990 GPU... lol. oh man I wish I could go back... I tried to recover ym Bitcoin wallet but my hard drive had been reformatted many many times since then, and back then it was worthless so I didn't think much of it. I would have been quite rich though, and gladly paid my taxes on it too. sucks bad. :(

oh well, such is life. I know some guy I was mining with on OCN back in the day and he bought a red corvette when it initially went to 1000 for the first time several years ago. he sold out then bought himself a corvette, doubt he paid taxes on it, i don't think maybe people thought of that back then. so its guys like that whom I am referencing will be in for a surprise bill from the IRS.

I don't think crypto will last honestly. the governments of the world just are starting to eat it alive now. combined with if Bitcoin dies, then so does currencies like Monero, because fiat is and always will be king. I think the only thing keeping Bitcoin alive is well governments can't charge you tax on it if you never take it out of your cold wallet on a physical hard drive... but you can still use that bitcoin to say travel internationally and apy for hostels, etc bitcoin wallet to bitcoin wallet, and no one will ever be able to tax that stuff as long as you stay away from exchanges etc.

eventually governments will realize this and just put the banhammer on all fiat exchanges. once that happens its all over. now that i got a 1080 ti gpu on preorder im just going to enjoy my gaming. hopefully gtx 2080 comes out in summer and I snag one from EVGA and can use the step up program ^^
Posted on Reply
#16
diatribe
lynx29
government and IRS can't touch Monero. :) they can't touch it Monero to Monero wallet is untouchable, as long as you never use an exchange. and that scares the crap out of them
That's called tax evasion. Frankly, it's not worth it, because the IRS will eventually find out.
Posted on Reply
#17
yotano211
lynx29
Bitcoin with a 7990 GPU... lol. oh man I wish I could go back... I tried to recover ym Bitcoin wallet but my hard drive had been reformatted many many times since then, and back then it was worthless so I didn't think much of it. I would have been quite rich though, and gladly paid my taxes on it too. sucks bad. :(

oh well, such is life. I know some guy I was mining with on OCN back in the day and he bought a red corvette when it initially went to 1000 for the first time several years ago. he sold out then bought himself a corvette, doubt he paid taxes on it, i don't think maybe people thought of that back then. so its guys like that whom I am referencing will be in for a surprise bill from the IRS.

I don't think crypto will last honestly. the governments of the world just are starting to eat it alive now. combined with if Bitcoin dies, then so does currencies like Monero, because fiat is and always will be king. I think the only thing keeping Bitcoin alive is well governments can't charge you tax on it if you never take it out of your cold wallet on a physical hard drive... but you can still use that bitcoin to say travel internationally and apy for hostels, etc bitcoin wallet to bitcoin wallet, and no one will ever be able to tax that stuff as long as you stay away from exchanges etc.

eventually governments will realize this and just put the banhammer on all fiat exchanges. once that happens its all over. now that i got a 1080 ti gpu on preorder im just going to enjoy my gaming. hopefully gtx 2080 comes out in summer and I snag one from EVGA and can use the step up program ^^
You had bitcoin in 2012, I thought you said you never had any bitcoin according to your post.
"I have no Bitcoin and never had any.".

Today at 1:40 PM
#7

yotano211 said:

You must be one of those special people, or just plain stupid. No matter what you think it is still income and you need to report that income according to your countries' laws.
I know it is income... I was referring the people who will be surprised when they get letters in the mail from the IRS... I have no Bitcoin and never had any. Thanks for inferring and using crude language though, you are a great part of this community!
Posted on Reply
#18
lynx29
yotano211
You had bitcoin in 2012, I thought you said you never had any bitcoin according to your post.
"I have no Bitcoin and never had any.".

Today at 1:40 PM
#7


yotano211 said:

You must be one of those special people, or just plain stupid. No matter what you think it is still income and you need to report that income according to your countries' laws.
I know it is income... I was referring the people who will be surprised when they get letters in the mail from the IRS... I have no Bitcoin and never had any. Thanks for inferring and using crude language though, you are a great part of this community!
I never did have any Bitcoin, I was mining with a 7990 for about a total of 2 days before I said screw. I don't believe my wallet had even updated with any amount yet, or I had not set up the command prompts right, which another reason I quit.

Which is why I said "I wish I could go back and mine..."

welp I am done with this thread, later nubs
diatribe
That's called tax evasion. Frankly, it's not worth it, because the IRS will eventually find out.
Trump has done it several times, re-selling houses 40 million over their value to Russians, etc. IRS doesn't seem to mind one bit. :) and the IRS is moving so slow on Trump's audit, he will be retired and in a nursing home by the time they get it sorted. so no risk of penalty once you are as big as him see.

IRS is a slow moving beast for the real criminals in this country, but when the little guy messes up or sees a new chance like with Bitcoin, boom they come hard, fast. and garnish them wages within weeks. blows my mind, lol. but meh I could care less. I am in Ireland and back to Finland this summer as well. laws here are much nicer, I like how the UK recently said no we are not going to let USA extradite this hacker guy from last week, because USA prisons are too cruel, lol. Europe is where I am staying, besides visiting my family once in awhile in the states. long live the Nordic countries !
Posted on Reply
#19
NdMk2o1o
lynx29
I never did have any Bitcoin, I was mining with a 7990 for about a total of 2 days before I said screw. I don't believe my wallet had even updated with any amount yet, or I had not set up the command prompts right, which another reason I quit.

Which is why I said "I wish I could go back and mine..."

welp I am done with this thread, later nubs



Trump has done it several times, re-selling houses 40 million over their value to Russians, etc. IRS doesn't seem to mind one bit. :) and the IRS is moving so slow on Trump's audit, he will be retired and in a nursing home by the time they get it sorted. so no risk of penalty once you are as big as him see.

IRS is a slow moving beast for the real criminals in this country, but when the little guy messes up or sees a new chance like with Bitcoin, boom they come hard, fast. and garnish them wages within weeks. blows my mind, lol. but meh I could care less. I am in Ireland and back to Finland this summer as well. laws here are much nicer, I like how the UK recently said no we are not going to let USA extradite this hacker guy from last week, because USA prisons are too cruel, lol. Europe is where I am staying, besides visiting my family once in awhile in the states. long live the Nordic countries !
I'm pretty sure the top 10% of traders on coinbase are not the little guy..... probably a lot more shady goings on than just some tax evasion when you're talking about huge amounts of currency involved at that level and definitely not all strictly legal either, what's your beef anyway, you seem to be getting really personal about this considering you have no interest in crypto as you have stated :confused:
Posted on Reply
#20
yotano211
lynx29
I never did have any Bitcoin, I was mining with a 7990 for about a total of 2 days before I said screw. I don't believe my wallet had even updated with any amount yet, or I had not set up the command prompts right, which another reason I quit.

Which is why I said "I wish I could go back and mine..."

welp I am done with this thread, later nubs



Trump has done it several times, re-selling houses 40 million over their value to Russians, etc. IRS doesn't seem to mind one bit. :) and the IRS is moving so slow on Trump's audit, he will be retired and in a nursing home by the time they get it sorted. so no risk of penalty once you are as big as him see.

IRS is a slow moving beast for the real criminals in this country, but when the little guy messes up or sees a new chance like with Bitcoin, boom they come hard, fast. and garnish them wages within weeks. blows my mind, lol. but meh I could care less. I am in Ireland and back to Finland this summer as well. laws here are much nicer, I like how the UK recently said no we are not going to let USA extradite this hacker guy from last week, because USA prisons are too cruel, lol. Europe is where I am staying, besides visiting my family once in awhile in the states. long live the Nordic countries !
You have any proof that Trump did everything you that you said, if not, there goes another lie by this guy.
Posted on Reply
#21
R-T-B
lynx29
LOL do none of you know why bitcoin was originally invented? the entire purpose of cryptocurrency was originally to escape the big banks...
There was always a crypto-anarchist element in the community, but I'd like to think it's grown more worldly than that.

That, and Satoshi himself wasn't really a crypto-anarchist type from what I have been able to gather. Possibly why he hides.
Posted on Reply
#22
windwhirl
lynx29
government and IRS can't touch Monero. :) they can't touch it Monero to Monero wallet is untouchable, as long as you never use an exchange. and that scares the crap out of them
No security is unbreakable. The IRS, the NSA, or any other government agency will find a way, or someone else will. And if they have to keep petabytes of data stored for years until the day they find the way to crack Monero's security, they will. They have the resources for that, and when that happens, trust me, they will hunt down every single person (natural or legal) who didn't pay all their taxes. And if not for the taxes, they'll do it because of terrorism.

Well, to be honest, I don't know for how long after the tax evasion occurs the USA govt. can lay charges against a taxpayer for such crime but, in Argentina (which is where I live) the tax office can ask you to pay taxes up to five fiscal years later if you had already been registered as a taxpayer (only if you have a certain amount of wealth, a relatively high yearly income or if you do business that makes money, regardless of whether it's for profit or not) or up to ten years if you have not been registered as a taxpayer. I suppose the US IRS works with similar time frames if not longer.

If terrorism is involved or could be involved, well, they won't stop. Ever.
Posted on Reply
#23
R-T-B
NdMk2o1o
probably a lot more shady goings on than just some tax evasion when you're talking about huge amounts of currency involved at that level and definitely not all strictly legal either,
I doubt it. Bitcoin has been a poor choice for crime for far, far too long.
windwhirl
No security is unbreakable.
No, but Monero is in the realm of far beyond "good enough." The statute of limitations is likely to be several times expired before the public blockchain is cracked.
Posted on Reply
#24
NdMk2o1o
R-T-B
I doubt it. Bitcoin has been a poor choice for crime for far, far too long.
Really? I thought it was prevalent on the dark web and other shady sources where one wants to make a transaction that can't be traced back to them personally.

Edit: and not just limited to BC pretty much a lot of cryptocurrencies are attractive because of their anonymous nature.
Posted on Reply
#25
R-T-B
NdMk2o1o
Really? I thought it was prevalent on the dark web and other shady sources where one wants to make a transaction that can't be traced back to them personally.

Edit: and not just limited to BC pretty much a lot of cryptocurrencies are attractive because of their anonymous nature.
Monero has been the new one for some time. Bitcoin is anonymous, but traceable. Coinbase does not deal in Monero.
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