bugSo we're only sticking with the corruption argument as long as we get to blame the top dog. When it comes to the underdog, we need to be supportive instead. That's a way of looking at things, I suppose.

As long as words like "corruption" "cheating" doesnt mean anything for some people because they consider nVidia a successfull business despite they never invest, it is a way of self-amusing after paying much more money that they are supposed to. or perhaps feel confident

XaledAs long as words like "corruption" "cheating" doesnt mean anything for some people because they consider nVidia a successfull business despite they never invest, it is a way of self-amusing after paying much more money that they are supposed to. or perhaps feel confident

What do you mean they never invest? AMD still hasn't figured out tiled-based rendering and Nvidia has made huge inroads into computing. Do you suppose all that grows on trees?
And make no mistake, AMD has cheated in the past, too (Quake3 anyone?). Where you are right is that I'm not trying to turn video cards into my personal SJW. I also try to not make blanket statements regarding either of the sides, I believe each person is entitled to draw the line where they see fit.

bugWhat do you mean they never invest? AMD still hasn't figured out tiled-based rendering and Nvidia has made huge inroads into computing. Do you suppose all that grows on trees?
And make no mistake, AMD has cheated in the past, too (Quake3 anyone?). Where you are right is that I'm not trying to turn video cards into my personal SJW. I also try to not make blanket statements regarding either of the sides, I believe each person is entitled to draw the line where they see fit.

Holy shit, AMD was trying to do Foveated rendering back then, still wrong to not allow options to disable it... I believe those "optimization" ticktocked between nvidia and AMD.
I remember selling my GTX275 for IQ issues. Having dealt with AMD and Nvidia on the enterprise level... AMD is behaving because they are the underdogs, they are working to increase mindshare... Nvidia is like Apple and ran out of F*cks... they know people will keep buying them regardless of the shit they pull... and they are horrible to their partners. I work for one of their partners... and I own their stock...because they aren't going anywhere.

bugWhat do you mean they never invest? AMD still hasn't figured out tiled-based rendering and Nvidia has made huge inroads into computing. Do you suppose all that grows on trees?
And make no mistake, AMD has cheated in the past, too (Quake3 anyone?). Where you are right is that I'm not trying to turn video cards into my personal SJW. I also try to not make blanket statements regarding either of the sides, I believe each person is entitled to draw the line where they see fit.

the are two main reasons behind nvidia's success:
1-AMDs GFX cards being way behind in gaming.
2- Mining.
all other products/technologies are just marketing -advertising products and they have no to too little contribution in Nvidias profit.

Both AMD and nVidia are lying about the contribution of mining in their profit.

XaledWe (consumers) should go with underdogs (currently it is AMD) so prices of best single GPU doesnt jump from 400$ to 3000$ or buy the same CPU (but with 3% clock speed increasing ) under different ne and with different socket therefore a different motherboard every year in a 7 years period

We as consumers can get what fits our needs and stop reading too much into bullshit. If Company A delivers a better product that suits your usage you should by all means get that, this "let's buy lower quality crap for support X" is only going to hurt you, nVidia won't care better yet AMD won't care either since all the decisions you take will make one of them rich. At the end of the day neither AMD or nVidia will bother sending you even a generic email saying "thank you for buying our product". Bottom line all the tech giants want your money and in the process the only one that has too lose something is you out of pure blind loyalty to some cause that nobody gives a rat's ass about.

Xaledthe are two main reasons behind nvidia's success:
1-AMDs GFX cards being way behind in gaming.
2- Mining.
all other products/technologies are just marketing -advertising products and they have no to too little contribution in Nvidias profit.

Both AMD and nVidia are lying about the contribution of mining in their profit.

Ok, now you're not really making sense, what you posted has nothing to do with the discussion so far.
Gaming accounts for only about half Nvidia's revenue: s22.q4cdn.com/364334381/files/doc_financials/quarterly_reports/2019/Q1-FY19-Rev_by_Mkt_Qtrly_Trend.pdf
AMD, I don't have numbers, because I don't thing they detail RTG separately.

bugI mean, short of someone manipulating the market to improve the outlook of one company, the only way to set unrealistic prices on shares would for investors to go collectively insane at the same time.

Greenspan described investor behavior during the boom that would become the dot-com bubble in 1996 as "irrational exuberance." Greenspan issued a similar warning at the beginning of this year.

FordGT90ConceptA great number of publicly traded companies have heavily inflated market caps. Judging by that graph, NVIDIA is one of them.

This. The graphs of so many companies have a wild ramp. Wild ramps end in wild sharts.

Xaledthe are two main reasons behind nvidia's success:
1-AMDs GFX cards being way behind in gaming.
2- Mining.
all other products/technologies are just marketing -advertising products and they have no to too little contribution in Nvidias profit.

Both AMD and nVidia are lying about the contribution of mining in their profit.

Third of their Q1 FY19 revenue comes from tesla(701M$), tegra(442M$) and quadro(251M$) divisions. Tesla being one of their biggest growing market on their last five quarters. So saying those are just for marketing is quite wrong.

FordGT90ConceptGreenspan described investor behavior during the boom that would become the dot-com bubble in 1996 as "irrational exuberance." Greenspan issued a similar warning at the beginning of this year.

Greenspan? Really? Who played a major role in the financial crisis?
www.businessinsider.com.au/alan-greenspan-op-ed-2011-3
krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/05/06/the-worst-ex-chairman-ever/

Both of those are opinion pieces by the same author: Paul Krugman. Basically, Greenspan is a conservative economist and Krugman is a liberal economist. They have different views on things.

That said, Krugman has pointed out emerging markets as an area of concern as well.

i dont understand why everyone talks smack about nvidia, as far as im concerned RTG is more scummy, vega 64 for how much? AIBs when? Chernobyl to power it? Nvidia is crushing it in AI, deep learning, proffessional content creation and finally the gaming sector, they deserve to be on top. Numbers dont lie, benchmarks or shares same difference, the only reason that AMD's shares are still shit is because investors have no confidence in them. Wait for navi peasants

Midland Dogi dont understand why everyone talks smack about nvidia, as far as im concerned RTG is more scummy, vega 64 for how much? AIBs when? Chernobyl to power it? Nvidia is crushing it in AI, deep learning, proffessional content creation and finally the gaming sector, they deserve to be on top. Numbers dont lie, benchmarks or shares same difference, the only reason that AMD's shares are still shit is because investors have no confidence in them. Wait for navi peasants

Running a Pentium and a 1060 and calling people peasants... That's a bold move cotton.

Alllllright lets do some teaching... MSRP is what AMD and Nvidia control, not what they actually get sold at due to demand.
Can they increase supply? Sure then you have Nvidia's issue of oversupply and them delaying the next gen because of it.
That's right, Nvidia is delaying the next generation of gpus because there are too many 1060s floating around not selling... infact, one of the top 3 gfx OEM's returned 300k chips to Nvidia.
seekingalpha.com/article/4182662-nvidia-appears-gpu-inventory-problem
semiaccurate.com/2018/06/18/why-did-nvidia-delay-the-consumer-volta-parts/

As someone who actually works in the HPC world, Nvidia's lead is not absolute. Mi25s are actually quite powerful, yes a V100 will dominate in many AI workflows but all nvidia did this year was double down the capacity on the V100. I am curious to see with the 7nm instinct can do and should have some on hand soon. For vGPUs for accelerated VMs, AMD has the clear lead, and even normally all Nvidia shops use AMD's solution for it. As for professional content creation... the funky radeon pro SSG card can do 8k uncompressed in realtime. Nvidia demoed something similar using an unreleased raided nvme drive and p6000, but the AMD solution was faster...

It really comes down to what your workload is as to what solution you should go with, even with the gaming world being mostly in Nvidia's favor the professional world isn't. That is where AMD put the money this gen and it shows. And as someone keeping tabs on ROCm... the development pace of porting and optimizing previously Nvidia only libraries to be open is frankly astounding and I am going to have to switch more of my time to testing both Mi25s and V100s especially with 7nm incoming.

Midland Dogi dont understand why everyone talks smack about nvidia, as far as im concerned RTG is more scummy, vega 64 for how much? AIBs when? Chernobyl to power it? Nvidia is crushing it in AI, deep learning, proffessional content creation and finally the gaming sector, they deserve to be on top. Numbers dont lie, benchmarks or shares same difference, the only reason that AMD's shares are still shit is because investors have no confidence in them. Wait for navi peasants

Nvidia have been doomed for years... i think i read that a decade ago.

FordGT90ConceptBoth of those are opinion pieces by the same author: Paul Krugman. Basically, Greenspan is a conservative economist and Krugman is a liberal economist. They have different views on things.

That said, Krugman has pointed out emerging markets as an area of concern as well.

The economy is cyclical. When people keep saying it is doomed, eventually someone will get it right and say, "see, I told you so!" Even a broken clock gets the time right twice a day.

PatriotRunning a Pentium and a 1060 and calling people peasants... That's a bold move cotton.

Alllllright lets do some teaching... MSRP is what AMD and Nvidia control, not what they actually get sold at due to demand.
Can they increase supply? Sure then you have Nvidia's issue of oversupply and them delaying the next gen because of it.
That's right, Nvidia is delaying the next generation of gpus because there are too many 1060s floating around not selling... infact, one of the top 3 gfx OEM's returned 300k chips to Nvidia.
seekingalpha.com/article/4182662-nvidia-appears-gpu-inventory-problem
semiaccurate.com/2018/06/18/why-did-nvidia-delay-the-consumer-volta-parts/

As someone who actually works in the HPC world, Nvidia's lead is not absolute. Mi25s are actually quite powerful, yes a V100 will dominate in many AI workflows but all nvidia did this year was double down the capacity on the V100. I am curious to see with the 7nm instinct can do and should have some on hand soon. For vGPUs for accelerated VMs, AMD has the clear lead, and even normally all Nvidia shops use AMD's solution for it. As for professional content creation... the funky radeon pro SSG card can do 8k uncompressed in realtime. Nvidia demoed something similar using an unreleased raided nvme drive and p6000, but the AMD solution was faster...

It really comes down to what your workload is as to what solution you should go with, even with the gaming world being mostly in Nvidia's favor the professional world isn't. That is where AMD put the money this gen and it shows. And as someone keeping tabs on ROCm... the development pace of porting and optimizing previously Nvidia only libraries to be open is frankly astounding and I am going to have to switch more of my time to testing both Mi25s and V100s especially with 7nm incoming.

AI and machine learning are driving the buzz and demand for HPC right now, and for AI workflow, nothing competes with nVidia; even GCE is using nVidia. nVidia has built such as big lead in the AI Deep learning ecosystem that AMD cannot compete (think software cuDNN, torch) and AMD is trying to get people to port over using MIOpen. The thing is, once you spent the time to create the model and optimized for cuDNN, you are not going to port just because MI25 is cheaper. Spin up an AMI and nothing is offered with AMD option. Once again AMD is playing catch-up and compete on price. Doesn't matter if MI25 is faster (which it isn't either). Performance is not the only important factor.

I am not sure what is the processing demand for professional content creation that will require MI25. Perhaps animated movies rendering?

LFaWolfThe economy is cyclical. When people keep saying it is doomed, eventually someone will get it right and say, "see, I told you so!" Even a broken clock gets the time right twice a day.

No one used the word "doomed." That's kind of the point: a correction is coming. It may hurt NVIDIA more than the rest because NVIDIA benefited from the "irrational exuberance" more than its peers.

FordGT90ConceptNo one used the word "doomed." That's kind of the point: a correction is coming. It may hurt NVIDIA more than the rest because NVIDIA benefited from the "irrational exuberance" more than its peers.

Huh, did you even read the article you linked? The title said "Krugman Joins Chorus of Doomsayers on Emerging-Market Crisis". The word "doom" is there. And the rest of the article? "meltdown in emerging markets" Sounds like doomed to me.

Btw if it is just the market correction we already had that in Feb of 2018.

PatriotRunning a Pentium and a 1060 and calling people peasants... That's a bold move cotton.

Alllllright lets do some teaching... MSRP is what AMD and Nvidia control, not what they actually get sold at due to demand.
Can they increase supply? Sure then you have Nvidia's issue of oversupply and them delaying the next gen because of it.
That's right, Nvidia is delaying the next generation of gpus because there are too many 1060s floating around not selling... infact, one of the top 3 gfx OEM's returned 300k chips to Nvidia.
seekingalpha.com/article/4182662-nvidia-appears-gpu-inventory-problem
semiaccurate.com/2018/06/18/why-did-nvidia-delay-the-consumer-volta-parts/

As someone who actually works in the HPC world, Nvidia's lead is not absolute. Mi25s are actually quite powerful, yes a V100 will dominate in many AI workflows but all nvidia did this year was double down the capacity on the V100. I am curious to see with the 7nm instinct can do and should have some on hand soon. For vGPUs for accelerated VMs, AMD has the clear lead, and even normally all Nvidia shops use AMD's solution for it. As for professional content creation... the funky radeon pro SSG card can do 8k uncompressed in realtime. Nvidia demoed something similar using an unreleased raided nvme drive and p6000, but the AMD solution was faster...

It really comes down to what your workload is as to what solution you should go with, even with the gaming world being mostly in Nvidia's favor the professional world isn't. That is where AMD put the money this gen and it shows. And as someone keeping tabs on ROCm... the development pace of porting and optimizing previously Nvidia only libraries to be open is frankly astounding and I am going to have to switch more of my time to testing both Mi25s and V100s especially with 7nm incoming.

yeah nah got a bit carried away calling everyone a peasant but the majority of my point stands

FluffmeisterNvidia have been doomed for years... i think i read that a decade ago.

how is nvidia doomed, the competition certainly wont be its downfall, heck nvidia punches on with intel and amd, i can see another recession hurting them but they likely have the funds to survive unlike its competitor in the gpu space, and personally i think intel will pit its gpus against amd in the midrange, they might shake up the market but nvidia has been 1 step ahead of the competition since maxwell, they won on 28nm and 16/14nm, personally i dont see them losing there lead on 7nm. The fact that pascal is basically maxwell 3.0 and that volta is the first major overhaul of the same uArch leads me to believe they have had plenty of time to make a new architecture to stow up there sleaves

Midland Dogi dont understand why everyone talks smack about nvidia, as far as im concerned RTG is more scummy, vega 64 for how much? AIBs when? Chernobyl to power it? Nvidia is crushing it in AI, deep learning, proffessional content creation and finally the gaming sector, they deserve to be on top. Numbers dont lie, benchmarks or shares same difference, the only reason that AMD's shares are still shit is because investors have no confidence in them. Wait for navi peasants

LOL... then i definitely can say that AMD is cruching it in gaming industry because all console iuse AMD grachics right? .. nVidias AI, deep learning so called solutions are not different than that. they make them and sell them for way less than what they should be, with too little or no profit just for marketing purposes. and the numbers/percentage of profit provived by nVidia are just false. nVidia cheats in everything, why should they be honest when it matters most?

XaledLOL... then i definitely can say that AMD is cruching it in gaming industry because all console iuse AMD grachics right? .. nVidias AI, deep learning so called solutions are not different than that. they make them and sell them for way less than what they should be, with too little or no profit just for marketing purposes. and the numbers/percentage of profit provived by nVidia are just false. nVidia cheats in everything, why should they be honest when it matters most?

Because people are so stupid and for the past 5 years nVidia provided false financial statements because there are no laws that can prevent this right? Yes AMD has the console market which is brining them as much money as nVidia spends on toilet paper... why do you think the latter decided to stay out of it? There aren't much money in the console hardware market. There was a nice article which I can't find at the moment which shows just how little Sony's making off selling the actual console because they make 100 times as much with PSN and game sales. And oh how do they lie in everything those cheeky bastards .... guess they lied about their product's performance too then ... Who knows maybe that 1080 Ti has the performance on par with a RX480 ....

I NoBecause people are so stupid and for the past 5 years nVidia provided false financial statements because there are no laws that can prevent this right? Yes AMD has the console market which is brining them as much money as nVidia spends on toilet paper... why do you think the latter decided to stay out of it? There aren't much money in the console hardware market. There was a nice article which I can't find at the moment which shows just how little Sony's making off selling the actual console because they make 100 times as much with PSN and game sales. And oh how do they lie in everything those cheeky bastards .... guess they lied about their product's performance too then ... Who knows maybe that 1080 Ti has the performance on par with a RX480 ....

as i said earlier :
"there are two main reasons behind nvidia's success:
1-AMDs GFX cards being way behind in gaming.
2- Mining.
all other products/technologies are just marketing -advertising products and they have no to too little contribution in Nvidias profit. "

these two graphs explain it all :


2016 is when everybody started to jump on the mining bandwagon. Even (then) horrible AMD turned into a winner!

Xaledas i said earlier :
"there are two main reasons behind nvidia's success:
1-AMDs GFX cards being way behind in gaming.
2- Mining.
all other products/technologies are just marketing -advertising products and they have no to too little contribution in Nvidias profit. "

these two graphs explain it all :


2016 is when everybody started to jump on the mining bandwagon. Even (then) horrible AMD turned into a winner!

1. Yes they are behind in gaming
2. Not even close, Nvidia started showing growth way before the 2nd mining craze hit.

Gaming revenue grew 68 percent from a year earlier to $1.72 billion
Datacenter revenue grew 71 percent from a year earlier to a record $701 million.
Professional Visualization revenue grew 22 percent from a year earlier to $251 million.
Automotive revenue grew 4 percent from a year earlier to a record $145 million.

Mining sales would go into the Gaming revenue. But to say that other departments bring little to no contribution to nvidia is very far fetched. Fact is they showed growth for the past 5 years regardless of mining....

I No1. Yes they are behind in gaming
2. Not even close, Nvidia started showing growth way before the 2nd mining craze hit.

Gaming revenue grew 68 percent from a year earlier to $1.72 billion
Datacenter revenue grew 71 percent from a year earlier to a record $701 million.
Professional Visualization revenue grew 22 percent from a year earlier to $251 million.
Automotive revenue grew 4 percent from a year earlier to a record $145 million.

Mining sales would go into the Gaming revenue. But to say that other departments bring little to no contribution to nvidia is very far fetched. Fact is they showed growth for the past 5 years regardless of mining....

i don't know if you are pretending or actually missing the point, mining sales not only led to sell more gpus, the demand on gpus also led to increase of gpus prices that are actually sold for and used by gamers. datacenters and professional visualization. this is where all this "amazing" revenue grows come from.

Xaledi don't know if you are pretending or actually missing the point, mining sales not only led to sell more gpus, the demand on gpus also led to increase of gpus prices that are actually sold for and used by gamers. datacenters and professional visualization. this is where all this "amazing" revenue grows come from.

And the point you are missing is that GPU prices were not inflated by nvidia/AMD but by the retailers. Here's the deal both nvidia and AMD have a contract with the AIB's the AIB's get the chips change the PCB and whatnot and add to the cost. What makes you think neither AMD or nvidia for that matter couldn't have done more than just to increase production? They have no control on the end price. As the demand scales up the AIB's demand will do as well, they might charge extra for the extra shipments but the money that goes to either AMD or Nvidia is no where near the $1200 mark that was asked for a VEGA 64 since that was the retailer's asking prince. Oh and here's another thought during the whole mining craze Nvidia kept the MSRP for their FE cards, the stocks were low because they had contracts to fulfill with the AIB's. Oh and the GPU's that were sold to datacenters, visualization and whatnot were never in the same area as the consumer ones. Every company out there handles corporate before consumers since they are the ones that can be tied to CONTRACTS that have CLAUSES for EARLY TERMINATION not meeting deadlines that would involve penalties, it's not the same market and stop treating it as such, the price wasn't inflated for those markets since they had the hardware bought from nvidia directly and not through AIB's or retailers.....

Midland Doghow is nvidia doomed, the competition certainly wont be its downfall, heck nvidia punches on with intel and amd, i can see another recession hurting them but they likely have the funds to survive unlike its competitor in the gpu space,

Sarcasm, my man, sarcasm. Fluffmeister has been doing it at least a couple years now to illustrate the point to all those who hate on Nvidia.